--- Log opened Tue Nov 25 00:00:01 2014 00:19 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-121-223-157-226.lns2.bat.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:20 -!- Maelstro [~beatzebub@S0106b81619e8ecee.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: No calling card for the unsung bard] 00:24 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:29 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:59 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-yivuetwgwkjlxbns] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:01 -!- CharlieNobody [~CharlieNo@97-85-244-245.static.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:14 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:03 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-121-223-157-226.lns2.bat.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:04 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-121-223-157-226.lns2.bat.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:55 -!- gene_hacker [~chatzilla@c-50-137-46-240.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:07 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-yivuetwgwkjlxbns] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 03:29 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-134-41-203.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:41 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-134-41-203.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:41 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-133-230-48.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:42 -!- Lemminkainen [uid2346@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ftsdwldiemdwvbcy] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 03:45 -!- Qfwfq [~WashIrvin@unaffiliated/washirving] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:51 -!- Qfwfq [~WashIrvin@unaffiliated/washirving] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:53 -!- pete4242 [~smuxi@boole.london.hackspace.org.uk] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:23 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-133-230-48.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 04:34 -!- potatowood [cbdb2ec1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.203.219.46.193] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:35 -!- potatowood [cbdb2ec1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.203.219.46.193] has left ##hplusroadmap [] 04:37 < archels> http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1038%2Fnmeth.3149 04:37 < archels> "Neurobiology: rethinking the electrode" 04:45 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-133-230-48.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:48 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-121-223-157-226.lns2.bat.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:49 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-121-223-157-226.lns2.bat.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:07 -!- drewbot [~cinch@ec2-54-198-120-17.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:08 -!- drewbot [~cinch@ec2-54-161-206-66.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:09 -!- Boscop__ [me@46.246.87.41] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:12 -!- Boscop_ [me@46.246.87.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:23 < kanzure> hmm 05:26 < FAMAS> kanzure: ??? 05:29 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-133-230-48.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 05:30 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-133-230-48.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:30 < kanzure> FAMAS: who are you? 05:31 < FAMAS> kanzure: a transhumanism lover 05:36 < kanzure> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/User:Gmaxwell/things_im_surprised_dont_exist 05:39 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-121-223-157-226.lns2.bat.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:40 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:44 -!- Vutral [ttO3IqRVWU@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:45 < eudoxia> why don't we write all our systems code in ocaml 06:08 < kanzure> you first 06:11 < Qfwfq> Jane Street first 06:11 < Qfwfq> Oh wait 06:15 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 06:23 -!- Qfwfq [~WashIrvin@unaffiliated/washirving] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:29 -!- Qfwfq [~WashIrvin@unaffiliated/washirving] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:04 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:07 -!- Merovoth [~Merovoth@gateway/tor-sasl/merovoth] has quit [] 07:14 -!- juri_ [~juri@vpn166.sdf.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:16 -!- Merovoth [~Merovoth@gateway/tor-sasl/merovoth] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:23 < kanzure> https://securelist.com/blog/research/67741/regin-nation-state-ownage-of-gsm-networks/ 07:44 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wiihzifnsqgoljsy] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:46 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-133-230-48.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 08:24 -!- Zinglon [~Zinglon@D549A77D.cm-10-1a.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:28 -!- Qfwfq [~WashIrvin@unaffiliated/washirving] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:32 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:33 -!- Qfwfq [~WashIrvin@unaffiliated/washirving] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:40 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:15 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 09:22 -!- nmz787_i [~nmccorkx@192.55.55.37] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:53 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:12 < kanzure> 10:02 < op_null> for a while they had all the transaction validity checks disabled in order for Mt Gox's invalid transactions to show up in their block explorer. https://people.xiph.org/~greg/21mbtc.png 10:41 -!- juri_ [~juri@vpn166.sdf.org] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:49 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r179-25-153-203.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:49 < eudoxia> i should get one of those cool vanity addresses 10:49 < eudoxia> i ran vanity gen once for six hours but it didn't find anything ;c 10:52 < kanzure> 1HPLUS8HAoWZM8QCFzRxNPrMZc2JJe8Je2 11:09 -!- pete4242 [~smuxi@boole.london.hackspace.org.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:09 < nickjohnson> I just put these up at my work makerspace: https://i.imgur.com/Pj7ECW0.jpg https://i.imgur.com/bD8EXkN.jpg 11:09 < nickjohnson> http://lifeboat.com/ex/warning.signs.for.tomorrow if people haven't seen them before 11:10 -!- juri_ [~juri@vpn166.sdf.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:12 < fenn> nice lab 11:18 -!- juri_ [~juri@vpn166.sdf.org] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:20 < fenn> so GMT+3 is moscow, but wouldn't lunch-time at 15:00 GMT mean GMT-3? which ... greenland? or brazil? 11:20 < kanzure> weren't you listening the other day, it's impossible to agree about time 11:24 < nmz787_i> is this leading to some joke about greenwich mean time something something 'sandwich' 11:25 < fenn> if someone says "timestamps in GMT" and there's something happening at 15:00, that means it's 3 pm in england right? 11:25 < nmz787_i> 'sandwich time!' 11:25 < fenn> nmz787_i: no 11:26 < nmz787_i> "my watch is on sandwich standard time, it's always time for a snack!" 11:27 < Qfwfq> fenn: Depends on whether DST is in effect, I think, BST is sometimes one hour forward. 11:29 < Qfwfq> The UK switch from GMT to BST between March and October, BST is UTC+1. 11:31 < fenn> EDT is still GMT-4 which is an hour late, unless these guys work 8-4 and have lunch at 11 11:31 < yorick> fenn: time at greenwich is sometimes greenwich mean time + 1 11:31 < yorick> I guess it's technically mean if the winter part just lasts slightly longer 11:31 < fenn> i don't care about greenwich daylight time shenanigans 11:31 < yorick> no, that's median 11:31 < fenn> the time stamps are in GMT, that's all 11:32 < Qfwfq> But you asked about England :D 11:32 < yorick> fenn: yeah that's in the summer one hour earlier than the time in england, and in the winter the same 11:32 < fenn> -_- 11:33 < Qfwfq> yorick: Decided if you're going to CCC? 11:33 < fenn> after i finish bombarding the remains of earth civilization from orbit, i'm imposing UTC everywhere 11:33 < yorick> Qfwfq: I have no idea! I'm supposed to be moving too and oh god how do trains even work and where would I sleep 11:34 < yorick> Qfwfq: but it would probably be fun 11:35 < Qfwfq> They've arranged for cheaper rent at a hotel and a couple hostels, I think, check the blog. 11:35 < Qfwfq> Raichoo is doing a talk on Idris + LangSec, which I'm looking forward to 11:35 < fenn> fucking trains, how do they work? they use magnets. 11:35 * yorick doesn't have internet access right now, irc is connecting through an ssh tunnel running on magic 11:36 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:37 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:38 -!- Merovoth [~Merovoth@gateway/tor-sasl/merovoth] has quit [] 11:38 < Qfwfq> Isn't the obvious solution to tunnel HTTP over SSH/SOCKS? 11:42 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:43 < heath> is paperbot reliant on python3? 11:44 < fenn> no 11:44 < fenn> in fact it requires python 2 11:44 < kanzure> that should be a bug 11:44 < fenn> it's a pdfminer bug 11:44 < kanzure> oh, pdfparanoia? 11:45 < kanzure> heath: https://github.com/kanzure/pdfparanoia/issues/44 11:45 < kanzure> and https://github.com/kanzure/pdfparanoia/pull/43 11:46 < fenn> why isn't .six merged back upstream to pdfminer? 11:46 -!- Darius [~quassel@71-94-157-171.static.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:50 < fenn> jeez -wizards was busy last night 11:53 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r179-25-153-203.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:01 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:05 < kanzure> because someone was wrong on the internet 12:08 -!- Zinglon [~Zinglon@D549A77D.cm-10-1a.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- In tests, 0x09 out of 0x0A l33t h4x0rz prefer it :)] 12:09 < heath> superkuh: https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/+NASA/albums/6085688927495255393/6085688928814472338?pid=6085688928814472338&oid=102371865054310418159 12:09 < heath> .title 12:09 < yoleaux> 25. November 2014 12:09 < heath> "Supercomputer Simulation of Magnetic Field Loops on the Sun:" 12:39 -!- Darius__ [~quassel@71-94-157-171.static.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:41 -!- Darius [~quassel@71-94-157-171.static.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:55 < kanzure> heath: https://github.com/kanzure/paperbot/issues/33 https://github.com/kanzure/paperbot/issues/34 https://github.com/kanzure/paperbot/issues/35 https://github.com/kanzure/paperbot/issues/36 12:58 < superkuh> Cool stuff. I don't really understand most computer models since the implementation math is above my head. I do know that even the most complex and thorough computer models of the observable sun can't included all the known details. The range of length and time scales required span from km and tens of seconds for magnetic reconnection to the coronal magnetic memory involving millions of km and years. Modeling bits in high enough temporal 12:58 < superkuh> or spatial resolution necessarily makes it infeasible for large volumes or time spans. 12:59 < nmz787_i> huh, aip.org IP stamps include local IP range (I am reading a paper now and the stamp says 192.55....) 12:59 < nmz787_i> that's not a public range is it? 12:59 < nmz787_i> *in the public range 13:04 < nmz787_i> weird... someone is using a wikipedia user-profile to host relevant information https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Emicroprobe 13:05 < nmz787_i> that seems clearly more informative than https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electron_microprobe 13:06 < fenn> PING aip.org (212.54.151.34) 13:07 < fenn> wow Creation Date: 1989 13:07 < nmz787_i> well the stamps/watermarks I thought were supposed to indicate the company/university who paid for the subscription, such that they could catch people leaking papers 13:08 < jrayhawk> 192/8 is assigned to ARIN, but I think this is official policy roundup: http://www.iana.org/assignments/iana-ipv4-special-registry/iana-ipv4-special-registry.xhtml 13:09 < jrayhawk> which doesn't cover 192.55/16 13:10 < jrayhawk> https://www.arin.net/knowledge/micro_allocations.html "Micro-allocations for Critical Infrastructure" 13:10 -!- Darius__ [~quassel@71-94-157-171.static.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:12 < fenn> ah so it's not just me 13:13 < fenn> "cuckoo is based on really is a coherent understandable problem. The problems which the core of cryptographically secure hash functions are based on amount to 'looks like it mashes it up real good and we haven't been able to break it'" 13:14 < fenn> cuckoo uses graph traversal as the "hard problem" 13:14 < chris_99> nmz787_i, might you be able to recommend which microfluidics slide to get from https://www.anfractuosity.com/files/microfluidics/Product%20code_USD.pdf (the majority are mixing ones, but i'm not really sure of the differences). I'm looking at getting YM-01 maybe 13:16 < kanzure> fenn: keep reading the logs though... 13:18 < fenn> just the idea that nobody has any clue how crypto actually works 13:18 < fenn> even people who invented it 13:25 < fenn> all gmaxwell is saying is that you can build a bad crypto system out of good parts 13:30 < heath> kanzure: https://gist.github.com/heath/e6d4544241f037fbe3cd 13:30 < kanzure> is this phenny? 13:30 < heath> i'm guessing your phenny conf looks similar 13:30 < heath> yeah 13:31 < kanzure> eh, i guess 13:31 < heath> heh 13:31 < heath> k 13:31 < kanzure> don't get confused by paperbot1 vs paperbot2 13:39 < heath> kanzure: thanks 13:40 < heath> fenn: :P i'm not going to spam the room 13:40 < fenn> heath are you in nashville now? 13:40 < heath> fenn: i left 13:41 < heath> i'm in naples, fl 13:41 < nmz787_i> chris_99: really hard to say what those microfluidics are doing with a macro picture. you want something with pillars to break up the flow 13:41 < fenn> heath: is that the place with the 3d glasses company? 13:41 < fenn> hm. pop 20k 13:42 < heath> fenn: there's a company in nashville working on glasses for manufacturing, they are looking into AR at some point 13:42 < fenn> naples is "the second highest proportion of millionaires per capita in the US" 13:42 < chris_99> yeah you can zoom in acttually which sort of helps do you think ym-01 looks reasonable as it has the circular mixer part, and some squiggly thing before it 13:42 < heath> ..in nashville 13:43 < fenn> heath: i was talking about "magic leap" which is in fort lauderdale, so nevermind 13:44 < fenn> not too far away tho 13:44 < heath> yeah, larger cities are only a couple hours away 13:44 < nmz787_i> chris_99: that wouldn't be an array of posts 13:44 < heath> if you ever want to visit, we have a guest room 13:44 < heath> pretty sites... 13:44 < heath> https://i.imgur.com/GvldH6R.jpg 13:45 < heath> front yard 13:45 < heath> https://i.imgur.com/vU0h8jj.jpg 13:45 < heath> wildlife! 13:45 < heath> https://i.imgur.com/8RwPqGj.jpg 13:45 < heath> giant coconut tree in front yard 13:45 < heath> https://i.imgur.com/ztGm29w.jpg 13:45 < chris_99> nmz787_i, don't get you, it has 2 inputs, 1 output, isn't that what i need, to mix blue dye with beer 13:45 < fenn> .distance "fort lauderdale" ... "naples florida" 13:45 < yoleaux> fenn: 165.49 km linear distance between Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA ... Naples, FL, USA, see http://google.com/maps?q=to:%22fort+lauderdale%22+to:%22naples+florida%22 13:47 < fenn> watch for falling coconuts :P 13:51 < fenn> guys i need advice, is chocolate a food or a drug? 13:52 < fenn> or an "herbal supplement" 13:54 < nmz787_i> chris_99: it just depends on the two solutions you're mixing... a simple curvy channel seems to be effective for some things http://i.ytimg.com/vi/oS3lxh9XFbk/hqdefault.jpg 13:54 < nmz787_i> chris_99: for other things they have a field of posts that stuff flows past to mix 13:56 < chris_99> when you say post do you mean something like the oddly shaped diamonds in the M-04 one? 13:57 < fenn> an array of circles/cylinders 13:57 < fenn> i guess you'd use posts when the channel width is large, and wave channel when it's small 13:58 < chris_99> aha gotcha 14:00 * fenn skims http://www.elveflow.com/microfluidic-reviews-and-tutorials/microfluidic-mixers-a-short-review 14:00 < chris_99> i think i was just on that 14:01 < chris_99> oh no 14:01 < chris_99> that looks cool though 14:01 < nmz787_i> chris_99: pics I could quickly dig up http://www.nature.com/nprot/journal/v8/n8/covers/largecover.gif 14:01 < nmz787_i> pic 14:01 < fenn> those zigzag protrusions looks like they could catch and snag cells 14:01 < chris_99> mmm they do 14:01 < nmz787_i> yeah the post-post space would have to be large enough for a cell to pass by 14:02 < fenn> not related to spacing, just the poky thorn shape 14:02 < chris_99> i'm thinking a simple one like YM-01 might be enough now, provided the dye easily mixes, which i think it would? 14:02 < fenn> cell shredders are just nano razor blades 14:02 < chris_99> as theres nothing to catch the yeast 14:03 < nmz787_i> yeah I'm thinking cylindrical posts, not slicers 14:03 < nmz787_i> this is an extreme version http://images.sciencedaily.com/2011/03/110329134134-large.jpg 14:03 < nmz787_i> you'd want much further pitch 14:03 < nmz787_i> *greater pitch 14:04 < chris_99> aha interesting 14:04 < nmz787_i> the st-01 looks like it may have more zigzags 14:04 < nmz787_i> but it is hard to tell 14:04 < nmz787_i> the pdf is really low res 14:04 < fenn> i'd think a 3d crossover network would make for more thorough mixing, like take the left half and put it in the center of the right half, repeat 14:04 < nmz787_i> the m02 looks good too 14:04 < fenn> throw in a prime number or two 14:04 < nmz787_i> m02 is this http://archive.nanofab.utah.edu/TechnologyLibrary/Micromixer/sinemassfract.jpg 14:05 -!- Merovoth [~Merovoth@gateway/tor-sasl/merovoth] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:05 < chris_99> yeah the pdf is a bit naff, yeah m02 does look good 14:05 < fenn> glad that's settled 14:06 < chris_99> i'm confused why they're even £21 though, are they generally acid etched somehow? 14:06 < fenn> because "central banks" 14:06 < fenn> or the somebody-else's-money-problem 14:06 < chris_99> heh 14:06 < fenn> almost certainly nothing to do with the cost to manufacture 14:08 < fenn> how is m02 any different from a series of semicircular posts? 14:08 < nmz787_i> fenn: see last image i posted 14:09 < fenn> i'm looking at it.. 14:09 < fenn> i guess the straight stream has more velocity and the momentum causes it to push through the wavy stream? 14:10 < chris_99> http://www.docstoc.com/docs/154188607/PDMS-fabrication-_-Microfluidic-channel-system seems quite nice, so they instead do photolith on PDMS rather than glass 14:10 < nmz787_i> the scale of the radius of curvature of the siny waves would/should be much larger than that of a cylindrical post 14:12 < nmz787_i> chris_99: the cheapest way to manufacture PDMS fluidics is to have a nice glass or silicon negative then just replicate that whenever someone places an order (or they have an inventory based on this process) 14:12 < nmz787_i> it would not make sense to do lithography for each replica of the same design 14:14 < chris_99> yes, good point 14:14 < nmz787_i> you take your master, coat it in anti-stiction (FDTS or something, like that never-wet spray except without the silica particles), slather on silicone and degas, then cure, peel, activate with oxygen plasma and bond to coverslip/flat PDMS slab 14:14 < nmz787_i> (or instead of plasma bonding, peel off before fully curing, in hopes that the final curing will bond to the cover slab) 14:14 < chris_99> ah so it acts like a stencil 14:14 < chris_99> sort of 14:15 < nmz787_i> or use some glue of some sort (more PDMS, or superglue) 14:16 < nmz787_i> for glass/silicon fluidics, you don't have the same stamp-ability 14:17 < nmz787_i> and you have a choice of prototyping vs manufacturing scale processes 14:18 < chris_99> whats the advantage of say glass fluidics 14:18 < chris_99> over PDMS 14:18 < nmz787_i> better chemical resistance in a lot of cases 14:18 < nmz787_i> higher pressures achievable 14:19 < chris_99> aha, makes sense 14:19 < nmz787_i> different gas permeability 14:19 < nmz787_i> glass is less flexible which is often seen as a constraint 14:20 < nmz787_i> but if you need the chemical resistance, you often see people using a fluoridated-layer-coated coverslip of some elastic material 14:20 < nmz787_i> so they can still have valves and pumps on-chip 14:21 < nmz787_i> and i've heard that some companies make glass fluidics where they simply thin certain areas enough that you can flex the glass section to get valving 14:21 < nmz787_i> but then your pumped volume would probably have to be very shallow and wide 14:21 < chris_99> wow 14:21 < fenn> is it true that PDMS gets micro-bubbles? 14:22 < chris_99> say you wanted to play with ink output from a piezoelectric inkjet head, i assume that's require very fancy chips? as you'd be dealing with tiny droplets 14:22 < nmz787_i> the bio-printer folks could help you more 14:22 < nmz787_i> since they use printer heads 14:22 < fenn> the printer has most of the relevant electronics in it already 14:22 < nmz787_i> fenn: as a result of incomplete gassing before curing? or as gas permeates the walls later? 14:23 < fenn> you can't really buy a piezo print head separately 14:23 < chris_99> fenn, i mean microfluidic chips 14:23 < fenn> chris_99: you want to build your own piezo inkjet? 14:23 < nmz787_i> i think he wants to hook them together 14:24 < chris_99> no fenn, i was curious if you could mix droplets 14:24 < chris_99> from the inkjet head 14:24 < nmz787_i> chris_99: i believe the newest inkjet print heads can do a few whole number picoliters per droplet 14:25 < nmz787_i> chris_99: 1 micron cubed is a femtoliter 14:25 < chris_99> so you're saying it's so tiny, it may be too hard to deal with? 14:25 < nmz787_i> so it would still be considered 'micro' at least 14:26 < nmz787_i> well, it's not nanofludic! 14:26 < nmz787_i> so it's easier than that :P 14:26 < chris_99> heh 14:26 < chris_99> on the plus side :) 14:26 < fenn> but how would you catch the droplet reliably 14:26 < nmz787_i> you could probably just mate the fluidic directly to the print head 14:26 < chris_99> mmm 14:26 < nmz787_i> and it would act like a pump 14:27 < fenn> if the head is submerged in liquid the droplet wouldn't separate 14:27 < nmz787_i> fenn, no matter if you can just push another volume 14:27 < fenn> you don't need a print head for that 14:27 < nmz787_i> it's actually probably the cheapest picoliter metering pump commonly available 14:28 < chris_99> yeah 14:28 < nmz787_i> which is actually interesting 14:28 < chris_99> mmm the printers themselves are like £30 which is crazy cheap 14:29 < fenn> chinese refill ink is pretty cheap too fwiw 14:29 < chris_99> mmm i only ever use that 14:30 < chris_99> why aren't all inkjets piezo based? 14:30 < fenn> i liked the idea of a hot wax piezo jet 3d printer 14:30 < chris_99> patent issue? 14:30 < nmz787_i> you might be able to hook it up without butting the two together, using some fiducial-like system... i.e. some fluidic port with an LED or photodiode below it, that could tell you when your droplet hit (so you knew your other more important ports off to the side were lined up) 14:30 < nmz787_i> idk 14:30 < fenn> for a long time epson had patents on piezo 14:30 < chris_99> aha 14:30 < fenn> and bubblejet is cheaper 14:30 < fenn> just a resistor, how hard is that 14:30 < chris_99> bubblejet uses heat somehow right? 14:31 < fenn> thin film resistor vaporizes a tiny bubble of water 14:31 < chris_99> aha cool 14:31 < nmz787_i> that bubble is not the ink, right? 14:31 < fenn> for microfluidics you can do the same thing with a laser to create the steam bubble 14:31 < nmz787_i> i mean the water drop is reused 14:31 < nmz787_i> ? 14:32 < fenn> the bubble is steam from vaporized ink 14:32 < fenn> i shouldn't have said water, sorry 14:32 < nmz787_i> hmm 14:32 < fenn> it probably contains mostly alcohol vapor 14:32 < chris_99> "To eject a droplet from each chamber, a pulse of current is passed through the heating element causing a rapid vaporization of the ink in the chamber to form a bubble, which causes a large pressure increase, propelling a droplet of ink onto the paper " 14:32 < nmz787_i> you would still need a valve then, but it could be a spring-closed valve 14:32 < nmz787_i> so passive 14:33 < fenn> you could use a "valvular conduit" (another tesla invention) 14:33 < fenn> similar to a valveless pulsejet 14:33 < nmz787_i> the man or the company? 14:33 < fenn> the man 14:33 < fenn> http://www.tfcbooks.com/patents/valvular.htm 14:34 < chris_99> ooh 14:34 < chris_99> that's nifty 14:34 < fenn> basically a check valve with no moving parts, or a high pass fluid rectifier, or something 14:35 < fenn> the point is, for high frequency components, fluid only flows one direction 14:36 < nmz787_i> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYlP5TEKf2w#t=234 14:36 < nmz787_i> some CFD 14:37 < nmz787_i> says 40X more resistance in one direction than the other 14:38 < fenn> computational marble dynamics 14:38 < nmz787_i> it would be a lot of fun to get a group of folks together to go to this http://www.microscopy.org/MandM/2015/index.cfm 14:38 < nmz787_i> next august 14:39 < nmz787_i> easy for me since it's just downtown 14:39 < fenn> "the United Nations General Assembly proclaimed 2015 as the “International Year of Light and Light-Based Technologies” 14:40 < fenn> the international geophysical year made a lot more sense... 14:43 < fenn> that video ignores the fact that the valvular conduit works best with high frequency alternating fluid flows 14:44 < nmz787_i> hmm, well I don't think that regime would apply to these microfluidics devices we're talking about 14:44 < fenn> why not? 14:44 < fenn> if you're vaporizing micro steam bubbles to pump stuff around 14:44 < fenn> even tiny masses have inertia 14:44 < nmz787_i> but what about the down-time, when you are just idling? 14:45 < fenn> uh, i don't care? 14:45 < nmz787_i> NEVER STOP FLUIDICING 14:45 < fenn> with no pumping action, back flow would be limited to diffusion 14:45 < fenn> or maybe some kind of thermal shrinkage due to the fluid cooling 14:46 < chris_99> http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0103547 14:46 < chris_99> .title 14:46 < yoleaux> PLOS ONE: Low-Cost Motility Tracking System (LOCOMOTIS) for Time-Lapse Microscopy Applications and Cell Visualisation 14:46 < nmz787_i> yeah so assuming the microfluidic was not on the plane of the beer-tank surface, there would be pressure in one direction or another 14:47 < fenn> then what do you need a pump for 14:47 < nmz787_i> pumping 14:47 < fenn> ok i give up 14:47 < chris_99> i need to pump the dye 14:47 < nmz787_i> if the fluidic is to be resistant to a changing environment, you need some boundaries 14:48 < nmz787_i> say he keeps the system on a shelf, but to turn it on he brings it down to the table level 14:48 < fenn> ok float the dye in a bottle inside the beer tank :P 14:48 < chris_99> heh 14:48 < fenn> what could possibly go wrong 14:49 < nmz787_i> st patricks day beer if it's green dye 14:49 < chris_99> haha 14:49 < chris_99> so i only want to do this everything 30mins, so i think a pump is necessary 14:49 < chris_99> or at least a valve 14:49 < heath> pdfparanoia installation failure: https://gist.githubusercontent.com/heath/8256e75cf50f1cf32e18/raw/ebd890a48f14f4817f5804a122a7b42ba14ecb38/gistfile1.txt 14:49 < heath> bbl 14:50 < nmz787_i> chris_99: with a check-valve, you could also as fenn mentioned use gravity 14:50 < nmz787_i> check-valve to prevent backflow, and then you lower the fluidic and it acts like a siphon 14:50 < chris_99> but i'd still need a solenoid ? 14:50 < nmz787_i> in that idea no 14:51 < nmz787_i> it's also assuming that things won't clog up 14:51 < fenn> you'd need a rube-goldberg device to raise/lower the chip 14:51 < chris_99> mmm, a cd-drive fenn 14:51 < nmz787_i> set-off by a cat 14:51 < fenn> chased by a dog 14:51 < chris_99> haha 14:52 < fenn> check valves suck, just use a pdms circuit and a solenoid 14:52 < nmz787_i> well some stressed PDMS could be a check valve 14:53 < nmz787_i> it would only have to resist atmospheric pressure 14:53 < nmz787_i> or around there 14:54 < fenn> what was wrong with optical density again? 14:54 < nmz787_i> that's so 1920s 14:54 < fenn> you can spruce it up with an LED 14:54 < chris_99> it can't tell live from dead right? 14:54 < chris_99> heh 14:54 < fenn> no seriously, two LEDs and some resistors, there's your circuit 14:55 < nmz787_i> maybe if the light source was a laser on the head of a shark, i'd be more OK with that 14:55 < chris_99> like i said though fenn? 14:55 < nmz787_i> no it wouldn't, unless they flocced out differently 14:55 < nmz787_i> if that was the case, then you could use that probably 14:55 < nmz787_i> just sample from the top/upper 14:55 < fenn> the shark doubles as a bioreactor mixer 14:55 < chris_99> haha 14:55 < nmz787_i> lol 14:56 < chris_99> ....and it protects the beer 14:56 < chris_99> from intruders 14:56 < nmz787_i> :) 14:56 < fenn> was impedance spectroscopy too hard? it sounded like the simplest overall 14:57 < chris_99> let me check that one again, i've lost track what that was 14:57 < fenn> assuming you knew what frequencies to check it could be a really simple circuit 14:57 < chris_99> hmmm 14:57 < nmz787_i> yeah that chips was an all-in-one 14:57 < chris_99> i guess that also can't tell live from dead 14:58 < nmz787_i> I think it said you might be able to at some freqs 14:58 < chris_99> oh yeah it was a bit odd that bit 14:58 < nmz787_i> something about intercellular data 14:58 < fenn> .title http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0956566313002832 14:58 < yoleaux> Dielectric spectroscopy as a viable biosensing tool for cell and tissue characterization and analysis 14:59 < nmz787_i> https://www.researchgate.net/publication/268098043_IMPEDANCE_SPECTROSCOPY_MICROFLUIDIC_MULTICHANNEL_SENSOR_PLATFORM_FOR_LIQUID_ANALYSIS 14:59 < nmz787_i> .wik molded interconnect device 14:59 < yoleaux> "A molded interconnect device (MID) is an injection-molded thermoplastic part with integrated electronic circuit traces. The use of high temperature thermoplastics and their structured metallization opens a new dimension of circuit carrier design to the electronics industry." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molded_interconnect_device 14:59 < nmz787_i> hmm 14:59 < fenn> .wik moldy interconnect 15:00 < yoleaux> "A molded interconnect device (MID) is an injection-molded thermoplastic part with integrated electronic circuit traces. The use of high temperature thermoplastics and their structured metallization opens a new dimension of circuit carrier design to the electronics industry." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molded_interconnect_device 15:00 < fenn> sorry 15:00 < nmz787_i> lol 15:00 < nmz787_i> well that seems pretty advanced 15:00 < fenn> we don't want advanced, we want simple 15:01 < nmz787_i> paperbot: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0956566313002832 15:01 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/%0A%20Dielectric%20spectroscopy%20as%20a%20viable%20biosensing%20tool%20for%20cell%20and%20tissue%20characterization%20and%20analysis%0A%20.pdf 15:01 < chris_99> the dye + microfluidic chip + microscope seems kind of the simplest i guess so far, as it's only the pumping which would be hard i guess 15:02 < nmz787_i> chris_99: on the other hand, you might be able to sterilize some carbon electodes and be done with your aseptic/handling side of things 15:02 < chris_99> mm if that was easy to do the impedance way 15:02 < nmz787_i> though fouling could also be an issue there 15:02 < chris_99> that'd be cool 15:02 < nmz787_i> idk 15:03 < chris_99> in that paper i linked to up above, that guy is using the same kind of cheapo 'microscope' i ordered 15:03 < nmz787_i> I would check your yeast and see if the dead ones floc or not 15:03 < chris_99> yeah i'll read up on that 15:03 < nmz787_i> can you see this http://www.nature.com/srep/2014/140417/srep04717/extref/srep04717-s1.pdf 15:04 < chris_99> i think so, seems to be loading 15:04 < chris_99> my net is super slow 15:04 < nmz787_i> http://www.nature.com/srep/2014/140417/srep04717/full/srep04717.html 15:04 < paperbot> http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1038%2Fsrep04717 15:05 < fenn> on prancer on dasher on blixen on vixen 15:05 * fenn waits for siberian reindeer to trek their way here with the paper in tow 15:05 < nmz787_i> Our lensfree on-chip imaging platform operates by recording the interference of the light that is scattered from the target objects with the unscattered background light, which is digitally sampled using a complementary metal-oxide semiconductor (CMOS) imager chip (Aptina MT9P031STC, 5 megapixels, 2.2 μm pixel size, monochrome). Briefly, a glass cover slip containing the cells of interest, located on a sliding tray approximately 1 15:05 < nmz787_i> mm above the CMOS chip, is illuminated with a single green LED that is spatially masked by a 0.1 mm pinhole, which is used to fine tune the spatial coherence diameter at the cell and detector planes so that lensfree holograms can be sampled at the CMOS imager chip. The overall fringe magnification of this system is ~1, and therefore the entire active area of the CMOS chip becomes the imaging FOV, where the cells can be imaged 15:05 < nmz787_i> across e.g., ~24 mm2, which is around 10-fold larger than the FOV of a typical 10× objective-lens. The complete mode of operation and the physics of this on-chip imaging platform has been thoroughly described previously13, 28. 15:05 < chris_99> am i right in thinking they whacked that straight onto the CMOS chip? 15:06 < fenn> what does motility have to do with viability 15:06 < fenn> yes it's just a LED and a CMOS chip 15:06 < nmz787_i> probably nothing in chris_99s case 15:06 < chris_99> ah yeah on the other page, that's cool 15:06 < nmz787_i> except that the dead ones wont be motile 15:07 < nmz787_i> i think it said it was to constrain the cells while they tested optics 15:07 < nmz787_i> or algorithms 15:07 < nmz787_i> (the use of gel) 15:08 < nmz787_i> http://pubs.rsc.org/en/Content/ArticleLanding/2013/LC/c3lc41408f#!divAbstract 15:08 < nmz787_i> http://www.nature.com/nmeth/journal/v9/n9/full/nmeth.2114.html 15:08 < paperbot> http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1038%2Fnmeth.2114 15:08 < nmz787_i> http://pubs.rsc.org/en/Content/ArticleLanding/2010/LC/c003477k#!divAbstract 15:08 < fenn> .title 15:08 < yoleaux> Lensfree microscopy on a cellphone - Lab on a Chip (RSC Publishing) 15:08 < nmz787_i> 'We demonstrate lensfree digital microscopy on a cellphone' 15:09 < fenn> woop 15:09 < chris_99> fancy! 15:09 < fenn> heath: are you using pip-installed pdfminer or apt-get installed? 15:10 < chris_99> can we get the pdf of that? 15:10 < chris_99> paperbot: http://pubs.rsc.org/en/Content/ArticleLanding/2010/LC/c003477k#!divAbstract 15:10 < fenn> why is that fancy 15:10 < chris_99> just because it's so simple 15:10 < chris_99> and it works 15:10 < chris_99> that's probably a bad usage of the word fancy ;) 15:11 < heath> fenn: pip 15:11 < fenn> heath: ok nevermind 15:11 < heath> wait, i read that as pdfparanoia 15:11 < heath> pdfminer is in the requirements.txt 15:11 < fenn> yes but you have to install it with pip 15:11 < heath> yeah, this is frustrating 15:12 < kanzure> setup.py should be installing all requirements 15:12 < heath> pip should read the requirements of required modules and install them 15:12 < kanzure> pip -r reads requirement files, otherwise iirc it does not 15:13 < heath> what's happening: pip install -r reqs.txt ..finds pdfparanoia.. starts to install pdfparanoia but it fails because it doesn't have pdfminer though pdfminder is in the requirements file of pdfparanoia 15:13 < fenn> .title http://youtu.be/2ohrpq6kfwg 15:14 < yoleaux> Laser bubble in PDMS micro channel - YouTube 15:14 < heath> and i guess it's been so long that i just don't know, but i assumed pip would grab pdfminer 15:14 < kanzure> pdfparanoia's setup.py should grab pdfminer 15:14 < kanzure> if it doesn't then that's a pdfparanoia bug 15:14 < nmz787> paperbot should have been able to get this one http://diyhpl.us/~nmz787/pdf/Lensfree_microscopy_on_a_cellphone.pdf 15:14 < chris_99> fenn, wow that's cool, so the laser causes it to heat and burst? 15:14 < kanzure> setup.py should specify pdfminer in install_requires, rather 15:15 < kanzure> chris_99: same principle as laser ablation for transfection 15:15 < fenn> chris_99: yeah and you can use a pretty low power laser since the channels are so small 15:15 < chris_99> cool 15:15 < fenn> like a cd-rom laser 15:15 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/bio/Whole%20Blood%20Pumped%20by%20Laser%20Driven%20Micropump.pdf 15:15 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/bio/Diode%20laser%20generated%20ultrasound%20for%20human%20blood%20cell%20lysis.pdf 15:15 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/microfluidics/Non-contact%20Mesoscale%20Manipulation%20Using%20Laser%20Induced%20Convection%20Flows%20-%20480%20nm%20(infrared)%20laser.pdf 15:15 < nmz787> and apparently this one too http://diyhpl.us/~nmz787/pdf/Cost-effective_and_rapid_blood_analysis_on_a_cell-phone.pdf 15:15 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/microfluidics/PCR%20-%20Nanodroplet%20real-time%20PCR%20system%20with%20laser%20assisted%20heating.pdf 15:15 < heath> whatever, i'll manually install 15:15 < kanzure> nmz787: stop complaining and go fix paperbot 15:16 < kanzure> heath: pdfparanoia is worth fixing 15:16 < nmz787_i> kanzure: no time these days 15:16 < heath> we can throw up a paperbot-infrastructure later 15:16 < kanzure> huh? 15:16 < kanzure> that's complicating things too much 15:17 < heath> okey doke 15:17 < fenn> a simple "how to install" in the readme ought to suffice 15:17 < nmz787_i> that would be nice 15:17 < kanzure> "python setup.py install" 15:17 < kanzure> done. 15:18 < fenn> i don't see any setup.py 15:18 < kanzure> oh interesting 15:19 < kanzure> https://github.com/kanzure/paperbot/issues/37 15:19 < heath> fenn: for which module? 15:19 < fenn> i was expecting something like "pip install pdfminer pdfparanoia ; python -c'import paperbot'" 15:19 < fenn> i don't know what the hell requirements.txt is 15:20 < heath> there's a setup.py for pdfparanoia and pdfminer 15:20 < kanzure> requirements.txt is a friendly way of listing python dependencies so that you don't have to list them out like an asshole in a readme file 15:20 < heath> 8there isn't a setup.py for paperbot 15:20 < kanzure> usually requirements.txt is useful for setting up virtualenvs and packaging 15:21 < kanzure> also, some people choose to dump lines from requirements.txt into the install_requires variable they pass into setup() in setup.py 15:21 < fenn> is this some standard format or just a list of things for someone to look at? 15:21 < kanzure> requirements.txt is by convention something that follows a format that pip is good at parsing 15:22 < kanzure> there are lines that are incompatible with install-requires like comments and "-e git+https://", which need to not be included in install_requires (or rather, alternatives need to be available for install_requires, since they were dependencies and such) 15:22 < kanzure> *with install_requires 15:22 * heath destroys resets his virtualenv to figure out what went wrong earlier 15:22 < heath> one of those verbs 15:22 < kanzure> pretty sure the problem was pdfparanoia 15:23 < nmz787_i> do you people really use so many libraries that you run into version clashes that force you to use virtualenvs? 15:23 < heath> nmz787_i: yes 15:23 < heath> pretty much every developer 15:24 < nmz787_i> why not just add to your sys.path in some project-specific file? 15:24 < nmz787_i> which you import 15:24 < heath> sounds too much like nixos 15:24 < nmz787_i> huh 15:24 < nmz787_i> weird 15:25 < nmz787_i> guess your projects are not consistent enough? 15:25 < heath> i'm kidding, nixos does a nice job of sandboxing dependencies so that you don't have to install them more than once 15:25 < nmz787_i> (thought nixos was some regional jargon) 15:25 < nmz787_i> like saying 'voodoo' 15:25 < heath> it's a linux distro 15:26 < heath> i don't think that because i use ubuntu 15:26 < heath> think +i do that because.. 15:27 < fenn> sandboxing and isolation carried out to its ultimate extreme conclusion: http://0pointer.net/blog/revisiting-how-we-put-together-linux-systems.html 15:28 < heath> nmz787_i: you've ran into dependency hell surely? 15:28 < nmz787_i> not with python 15:28 < nmz787_i> there was something that had a conflicting six version, so I just did what I said earlier 15:32 < kanzure> virtualenv isn't about version clashes 15:32 < kanzure> it may help in that situation but that's not the primary reason to use a virtualenv 15:34 < fenn> what's the primary reason then? 15:36 < kanzure> isolation 15:36 < fenn> can you elaborate? 15:37 < kanzure> you don't want to pollute global site-packages 15:37 < kanzure> especially with development code 15:37 < kanzure> and "pip freeze" totally sucks when you're not using a virtualenv 15:37 < kanzure> (although arguably you shouldn't use pip freeze anyway) 15:38 < fenn> yeah that's dumb 15:38 < fenn> if you can't keep track of what libraries you're using, you're using too many libraries 15:41 < fenn> i guess the primary value is protection against bitrot 15:42 < fenn> "what if you want to install an application and leave it be?" 15:45 < kanzure> "reasons why you installed this package: haha good luck" 15:45 < fenn> i mean in the thing you're developing, not why you installed some package 15:46 < fenn> it should be simple enough: grep import src/ -R 15:46 < fenn> | sort | uniq or sumfin 15:47 < fenn> maybe i am hopelessly naive and idealistic, and "real world" applications use a zillion dependencies 15:47 < fenn> but fuck them 15:47 < kanzure> grep/sort/uniq is wrong strategy all ukraine programmer soldier trained to use http://furius.ca/snakefood/ from birth 15:48 < nmz787_i> wow http://furius.ca/snakefood/doc/examples/django.pdf 15:49 < fenn> not surprised 15:49 < kanzure> hey that's not many 15:50 < fenn> sometimes those graphs can make it look more complex than it really is 15:50 < nmz787_i> it could be that their graphing algorithm sucks and it just looks horrendous 15:50 < kanzure> yes i don't think a graph is appropriate for this problem 15:50 < kanzure> in python land your dependencies are very often trees, except when there are common tool libraries that are used everywhere 15:50 < nmz787_i> that whole maximum planar graph thing 15:50 < fenn> minimum spanning tree 15:51 < fenn> or just any ol' tree 15:53 -!- Vutral [ttO3IqRVWU@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:01 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:06 -!- Darius [~quassel@71-94-157-171.static.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:10 -!- Darius [~quassel@71-94-157-171.static.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:39 < kanzure> http://forum.antichat.ru/ 16:41 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 16:42 -!- Viper168_ [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:43 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:47 -!- Viper168_ [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:50 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:03 -!- jim_ [~jim@23-118-32-116.lightspeed.moblal.sbcglobal.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:11 -!- jim_ [~jim@23-118-32-116.lightspeed.moblal.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:11 -!- Guest100 [~quassel@50-0-37-37.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:12 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-121-223-157-226.lns2.bat.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:16 -!- maaku [~quassel@50-0-37-37.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:16 -!- maaku is now known as Guest36612 17:17 -!- Guest36612 is now known as maaku 17:20 -!- lichen [~lichen@c-50-139-11-6.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:34 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-121-223-157-226.lns2.bat.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:35 -!- Merovoth [~Merovoth@gateway/tor-sasl/merovoth] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 17:35 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-121-223-157-226.lns2.bat.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:48 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-121-223-157-226.lns2.bat.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:52 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-121-223-157-226.lns2.bat.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:17 -!- delinquentme [~dingo@74.61.157.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:18 -!- Darius [~quassel@71-94-157-171.static.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:19 -!- yashgaroth [~ffffff@2606:6000:cb85:6a00:c88e:5cfd:d8d4:6b3] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:23 < kanzure> 18:22 < op_null> for the hell of it I wanted to work out if it was possible for a boutique Bitcoin miner using only vacuum tube logic. surprisingly hard to get running information about 60s computer technology. no matter how you put in the numbers, the cost seems to be astronomical. 18:24 < kanzure> er, there were mos transistors in the 60s 18:37 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wiihzifnsqgoljsy] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 18:40 -!- delinquentme [~dingo@74.61.157.78] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:12 < JayDugger> Hmm...did you look at using only 1960s era hardware, or did you also limit consideration to period software? 19:12 < JayDugger> And have you founded the Society for Computing Anachronism? 19:13 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-121-223-157-226.lns2.bat.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:13 < kanzure> i was quoting someone else, mind you 19:22 < JayDugger> Duly noted. 19:24 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:59 -!- juri_ [~juri@vpn166.sdf.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:06 -!- Vutral [TkukNt7hcn@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:07 -!- juri_ [~juri@vpn166.sdf.org] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:09 -!- Vutral [TkukNt7hcn@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess Flood] 20:11 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:21 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess Flood] 20:25 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:32 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-121-223-157-226.lns2.bat.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:37 < nmz787_i> this is very interesting indeed: http://web.mit.edu/vmd_v1.9.1/namd-tutorial-unix.pdf 20:37 < nmz787_i> "X-ray crystallography methods utilize the optical rule that electromagnetic radiation will interact most strongly with matter the dimensions of which are close to the wavelength of that radiation. X-rays are diffracted by the electron clouds in molecules, since both the wavelength of the X-rays and the diameter of the cloud are on the order of Angstroms. The diffraction patterns formed when a group of molecules is arranged in a 20:37 < nmz787_i> regular, crystalline array, may be used to reconstruct a 3-D image of the molecule. Hydrogen atoms, however, are not typically detected by X-ray crystallography since their sizes are too small to interact with the radiation and since they contain only a single electron. The best X-ray crystallography resolutions currently available are around 0.9˚A." 20:37 < nmz787_i> very nice and succint 20:46 -!- Darius [~quassel@71-94-157-171.static.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:25 -!- delinquentme [~dingo@74.61.157.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:28 -!- Merovoth [~Merovoth@gateway/tor-sasl/merovoth] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:33 -!- lichen [~lichen@c-50-139-11-6.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:41 -!- Merovoth [~Merovoth@gateway/tor-sasl/merovoth] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:51 -!- nmz787_i [~nmccorkx@192.55.55.37] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:04 -!- yashgaroth [~ffffff@2606:6000:cb85:6a00:c88e:5cfd:d8d4:6b3] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:04 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:07 -!- lichen [~lichen@c-50-139-11-6.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:08 -!- lichen [~lichen@c-50-139-11-6.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:16 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:16 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess Flood] 22:20 -!- JohanTitor [~superobse@unaffiliated/superobserver] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:30 -!- Vutral [feLNc7JHOf@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:36 -!- Vutral [feLNc7JHOf@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess Flood] 22:42 -!- delinquentme [~dingo@74.61.157.78] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:48 -!- Merovoth [~Merovoth@gateway/tor-sasl/merovoth] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:56 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:28 -!- JonTitor [~superobse@unaffiliated/superobserver] has joined ##hplusroadmap --- Log closed Wed Nov 26 00:00:02 2014