--- Day changed Thu Nov 27 2014 00:02 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:03 -!- Boscop__ [me@188.126.91.49] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:06 -!- Boscop_ [me@188.126.91.49] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:16 -!- delinquentme [~dingo@74.61.157.78] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:18 -!- sheena [~home@S0106c8be196316d1.ok.shawcable.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:38 -!- Qfwfq [~WashIrvin@unaffiliated/washirving] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:39 -!- Qfwfq [~WashIrvin@unaffiliated/washirving] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:39 -!- lichen [~lichen@c-50-139-11-6.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:59 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:51 -!- pete4242 [~smuxi@boole.london.hackspace.org.uk] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:10 -!- Zinglon [~Zinglon@D549A77D.cm-10-1a.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:33 -!- Beatzebub [~beatzebub@S0106b81619e8ecee.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: No calling card for the unsung bard] 06:00 < kanzure> https://github.com/petertodd/hacker-barbie-visits-the-agency/blob/master/hacker-barbie-visits-the-agency.md 06:06 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@147.69.179.205] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:06 < kanzure> "Escaping the Safari sandbox with a kernel GPU bug" http://googleprojectzero.blogspot.com/2014/11/pwn4fun-spring-2014-safari-part-ii.html 06:39 < kanzure> hmm https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/tree/master/contrib 06:55 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ybyeffdadmaaiiqm] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:03 -!- drewbot [~cinch@ec2-54-242-174-118.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:04 -!- drewbot [~cinch@ec2-54-197-106-143.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:29 -!- yashgaroth [~ffffff@2606:6000:cb85:6a00:4517:744c:e32a:6f28] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:02 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:03 -!- sheena [~home@S0106c8be196316d1.ok.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:09 -!- d4de [~d4de@unaffiliated/d4de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:10 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:15 -!- Merovoth [~Merovoth@gateway/tor-sasl/merovoth] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:21 -!- sheena [~home@S0106c8be196316d1.ok.shawcable.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:22 -!- d4de [~d4de@unaffiliated/d4de] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:26 < kanzure> 07:50 <+sbp> kanzure: http://dpaste.com/0H8G77H#wrap 08:26 < kanzure> 07:51 <+kanzure> that's the most boring story ever 08:26 < kanzure> 07:52 <+kanzure> is the author a moron? 08:26 < kanzure> 07:57 <+sbp> not sure if joking / or most hilarious thing you ever said 08:26 < kanzure> 07:58 -!- sbp changed the topic of #swhack to: Swhack! Surely you're joking, Mr kanzure 08:26 -!- Merovoth [~Merovoth@gateway/tor-sasl/merovoth] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:27 -!- Merovoth [~Merovoth@gateway/tor-sasl/merovoth] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:37 -!- Merovoth [~Merovoth@gateway/tor-sasl/merovoth] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:38 -!- d4de [~d4de@unaffiliated/d4de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:38 -!- Tenju [~rayston@ip68-106-242-42.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:42 < sheena> since people here know everything, i'm looking for evidence/science around essential oils interacting with containers/substances. Basically, the "common knowledge" is that if you keep EOs in glass, you're fine. Some metal is "okay" with some EOs, and plastic generally sucks. I want to find like, science on this, for the purposes of deciding what the best container is to keep EOs in long term... 08:42 < sheena> someone had something before 09:31 -!- d4de [~d4de@197.160.119.101] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:31 -!- d4de [~d4de@197.160.119.101] has quit [Changing host] 09:31 -!- d4de [~d4de@unaffiliated/d4de] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:36 -!- d4de [~d4de@unaffiliated/d4de] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 09:37 -!- d4de [~d4de@unaffiliated/d4de] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:17 -!- delinquentme [~dingo@74.61.157.78] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:24 -!- sheena [~home@S0106c8be196316d1.ok.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:30 -!- Boscop_ [~me@e102.stw.stud.uni-saarland.de] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:31 -!- Boscop [me@unaffiliated/boscop] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:33 -!- Boscop__ [me@188.126.91.49] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 10:34 -!- Boscop_ [~me@e102.stw.stud.uni-saarland.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:38 < delinquentme> HAPPY FOOD CELEBRATION FRIENDS 10:38 < delinquentme> <3 10:42 < JayDugger> Write someone a thank you note today. 10:42 < JayDugger> If no one else comes to mind, send it to the person who sells you antacids. 10:46 -!- Beatzebub [~beatzebub@S0106b81619e8ecee.gv.shawcable.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:47 < pasky_> kanzure: that really is a boring one 11:34 -!- pete4242 [~smuxi@boole.london.hackspace.org.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:41 -!- delinquentme [~dingo@74.61.157.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:43 -!- fenn [~fenn@c-69-143-134-151.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: brb] 11:48 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:55 -!- Boscop_ [~me@e102.stw.stud.uni-saarland.de] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:57 -!- Boscop__ [me@188.126.91.226] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:59 -!- Boscop [me@unaffiliated/boscop] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:00 -!- Boscop_ [~me@e102.stw.stud.uni-saarland.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:05 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:16 -!- fenn [~fenn@unaffiliated/fenn] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:17 -!- Beatzebub [~beatzebub@S0106b81619e8ecee.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: No calling card for the unsung bard] 12:18 -!- Beatzebub [~beatzebub@S0106b81619e8ecee.gv.shawcable.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:19 -!- Beatzebub [~beatzebub@S0106b81619e8ecee.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:20 -!- Beatzebub [~beatzebub@S0106b81619e8ecee.gv.shawcable.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:54 -!- CharlieNobody [~CharlieNo@97-85-244-245.static.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:56 -!- CharlieNobody [~CharlieNo@97-85-244-245.static.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:08 -!- nmz787_t [322b2a21@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.43.42.33] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:13 -!- Maelstro [~beatzebub@S0106b81619e8ecee.gv.shawcable.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:13 < nmz787_t> what happened to gnusha? now irssi won't open for me there (though this webchat gave me no guff) 13:17 -!- Beatzebub [~beatzebub@S0106b81619e8ecee.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:20 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@147.69.179.205] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:28 -!- sandeep [~sandeep@117.254.216.124] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:48 -!- Zinglon [~Zinglon@D549A77D.cm-10-1a.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- \o/] 14:13 -!- Spitstream [~beatzebub@S0106b81619e8ecee.gv.shawcable.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:14 < chris_99> is a darkfield microscope the same as a metallurgical one, does anyone know? 14:17 -!- Maelstro [~beatzebub@S0106b81619e8ecee.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:24 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:31 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r167-56-4-46.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:32 -!- ebowden_ [~ebowden@147.69.179.205] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:32 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@147.69.179.205] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:48 < chris_99> oh apparently you can get brightfield/darkfield reflected microscopes 15:09 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:13 -!- cpopell [~cpopell@c-76-26-144-132.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:13 -!- Maelstro [~beatzebub@S0106b81619e8ecee.gv.shawcable.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:17 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ybyeffdadmaaiiqm] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 15:17 -!- Spitstream [~beatzebub@S0106b81619e8ecee.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:32 -!- sandeep [~sandeep@117.254.216.124] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:40 -!- nmz787_t [322b2a21@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.43.42.33] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:52 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r167-56-4-46.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:13 -!- Spitstream [~beatzebub@S0106b81619e8ecee.gv.shawcable.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:16 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 16:17 -!- Maelstro [~beatzebub@S0106b81619e8ecee.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:31 -!- Merovoth [~Merovoth@gateway/tor-sasl/merovoth] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:33 -!- Merovoth [~Merovoth@gateway/tor-sasl/merovoth] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:46 < ebowden_> paperbot: http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.4161/cc.9.4.10932#preview 16:47 < ebowden_> paperbot: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17123784 16:53 < kanzure> pasky_: ha 16:53 < kanzure> paperbot is out of commission 16:59 < superkuh> And lib gen (the mirrors I know) are down. :| 16:59 < superkuh> Or at least saturated. 17:01 < kanzure> https://gitweb.torproject.org/tor.git/blob_plain/HEAD:/src/or/circuitbuild.c 17:13 -!- Maelstro [~beatzebub@S0106b81619e8ecee.gv.shawcable.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:17 -!- Spitstream [~beatzebub@S0106b81619e8ecee.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:22 < fenn> why are we looking at the tor source code? 17:23 < kanzure> all sorts of reasons 17:23 < kanzure> not being completely full of shit is one of them 17:23 < fenn> i don't trust myself to audit that kind of code anyway 17:23 < kanzure> well not audit 17:24 < kanzure> an at least highly-vague passing familiarity with the structs and functions 17:24 < fenn> maybe if it said "if ptr_type==hacker_IP { do nsa.log("hacker detected") } 17:24 < fenn> i used to know C :( 17:24 < kanzure> "hey guys i found it" 17:25 < kanzure> apparently there is no generic onion routing library 17:26 < fenn> uh.. what do you call tor then 17:26 < kanzure> why should setting up network interfaces be required 17:26 < fenn> are you serious 17:26 < kanzure> "libtor" isn't what you think 17:27 < fenn> did you mean: lipitor? 17:27 < kanzure> "We've long discussed possibly creating a shared library. You're not the first and you won't be the last to suggest it - You're simply the most annoying, we all wish you'd knock it off but that's probably a lost cause." 17:27 < kanzure> It's not clear what you'd gain and it's quite clear that it has major downsides. There are a lot of problems (network load being a great example) that would result from running different instances of Tor in every application." 17:27 < kanzure> hmm. 17:28 < kanzure> "Consider using 'torsocks' for applications where you want to use Tor as a library; it will handle all of the rough edges for you and it uses SOCKS to talk to Tor. You can have multiple configurations, one per application or other weird configs. As a bonus, it's a linkable library. This is how we handle ttdnsd and Tor (though that's with tsocks) interactions." 17:29 < fenn> a shared library wouldn't need to run different instances in every application 17:29 < kanzure> also maybe that shared library isn't literally running a tor node (maybe it's using some tor-related primitives for other reasons) 17:30 < fenn> it seems like the sort of thing that should be handled with a daemon, and i guess it is 17:31 < kanzure> so one idea for defeating timing attacks against tor is to introduce arbitrarily long delays into your communication over tor 17:34 < fenn> yep 17:34 < fenn> the relay node has to introduce the delay tho 17:35 < fenn> it could also be implemented as a queue that packs together a bunch of packets and sends it through 17:35 < fenn> not necessarily from the same source/destination 17:38 < fenn> the amount of variation is inversely proportional to the number of packets going through; latency goes down with more traffic, the opposite of usual 17:39 < fenn> i think; probably need to run a simulation to check (not my job anyway) 17:39 < kanzure> 23:48 < bramm> gmaxwell, On your list of things which don't exist, re: high latency mixes, that's what pynchon gate is, but there's been little interest in it so it hasn't been built. 17:39 < kanzure> http://www.freehaven.net/anonbib/cache/sassaman:wpes2005.pdf 17:39 < kanzure> andytoshi: ^ 17:41 < andytoshi> thx kanzure 17:41 < andytoshi> ah "hasn't been built" is what i forgot he said :p 17:42 < kanzure> damn i should have extracted more from len while he was still among the living 17:42 < kanzure> i ran into him once in person (well, more often online) 17:42 < fenn> the idea of mail mixers has been around for the entire life of the internet; how is this still not a thing? 17:42 < kanzure> i guess this should be discussed in -wizards 17:43 < fenn> i was a wizard before it was cool 17:43 < kanzure> well i mean asking bram himself seems like a useful thing to do 17:43 < kanzure> since he was a coauthor on this specific paper 17:44 < Qfwfq> Last I heard Mixminion had been abandoned, but didn't Chaum describe a construction anonymous-remailers-with-replies in like the 80s? 17:46 < fenn> first time i've seen a "you must pay $5 to repost this paper online" notice 17:49 < fenn> "Mixminion is not under active development, and probably will not work if you try to use it" 17:50 < kanzure> protocol spec http://web.archive.org/web/20090406081037/http://www.abditum.com/pynchon 17:51 < kanzure> http://web.archive.org/web/20090408052657/http://freehaven.net/pynchon/doc/pynchon-spec.txt 17:52 < kanzure> man when you have arrow diagrams with "email" in some label text you know you have taken a wrong turn in life 17:52 < kanzure> <-----> email <-----> /dev/null 17:55 < fenn> yeah i don't really see the point of focus on email in particular 17:55 < fenn> something about it being high latency i guess 17:55 < fenn> except not really because people don't write many emails vs clicking on stuff 17:57 < kanzure> maybe it was something like "let's use the example of email because people may have trouble imagining other uses, and they already tend to be okay with delays checking their physical mailboxes.." 18:01 < kanzure> .wik mixmaster anonymous remailer 18:01 < yoleaux> "Mixmaster is a Type II anonymous remailer which sends messages in fixed-size packets and reorders them, preventing anyone watching the messages go in and out of remailers from tracing them. It is an implementation of a Chaumian Mix network" — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mixmaster_anonymous_remailer 18:02 < kanzure> type 2! 18:02 < kanzure> types: 1, 2 18:02 < kanzure> .wik chaumian mix network 18:02 < yoleaux> "Talk:Mix network" — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk%3AMix_network 18:02 < kanzure> .wik mix network 18:02 < yoleaux> "Mix networks are routing protocols that create hard-to-trace communications by using a chain of proxy servers known as mixes which take in messages from multiple senders, shuffle them, and send them back out in random order to the next destination (possibly another mix node)." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mix_network 18:04 < kanzure> http://www.whogotfunded.com/people/208868-anselm-levskaya 18:04 < kanzure> "Deals involving Anselm Levskaya: $9,994,393 raised with Cambrian Genomics Inc on November, 2014" 18:04 < fenn> that's real money 18:06 < Qfwfq> I think the focus on e-mail is that you can insert random waits between sending and receiving without anyone really caring (which makes mitigating traffic analysis easier.) 18:06 < kanzure> email is not the only possible protocol that can tolerate latency 18:07 < fenn> also "how much latency" 18:07 < Qfwfq> Yeah, but web browsing, IM, and remote shell tend not to. 18:07 < fenn> if you're the only email received by the mixer in that hour, it doesn't matter if you waited an hour 18:07 < Qfwfq> I think that's a function of the number of messages in the system 18:08 < kanzure> you need to wait like a week or a month, or let the system decide on its own somehow 18:08 < Qfwfq> But however long it takes it's expected to be present in the succeeding batch 18:08 < fenn> you must wait over 9000 years 18:08 < fenn> by then anyone spying on you will be dead 18:08 < Qfwfq> So you can prove misbehaviour or whatever 18:08 < Qfwfq> I should get breakfast afk 18:09 < kanzure> fenn: i believe you have solved the problem 18:09 < fenn> sometimes it just takes a little out of the box thinking 18:12 < fenn> it kinda hurts to read again these heinlein stories i read as a kid, where the hero gumshoe is using sleight of hand to slip a false label onto the automated pneumatic mail system in order to foil his tail 18:12 -!- Tenju [~rayston@ip68-106-242-42.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:13 < fenn> or like, they don't have radio communication with the colonists because it's too far away 18:14 -!- Spitstream [~beatzebub@S0106b81619e8ecee.gv.shawcable.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:17 -!- Maelstro [~beatzebub@S0106b81619e8ecee.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:20 -!- fenn [~fenn@unaffiliated/fenn] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:21 < kanzure> er, fenn died? 18:24 < Qfwfq> kanzure: You have my condolences, I'm so sorry. 18:28 < kanzure> http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/electrical-engineering-and-computer-science/6-868j-the-society-of-mind-fall-2011/video-lectures/ 18:28 < kanzure> cc maaku_ 18:29 < kanzure> (uh, not that i would promote this material as being worth anyone's time) 18:29 < kanzure> (it is unlikely that videos are an optimal way to receive anything at all) 18:30 < kanzure> "Memoir on Inventing the Confocal Scanning Microscope" http://web.media.mit.edu/~minsky/papers/ConfocalMemoir.html 18:31 < kanzure> "a framework for representing knowledge" http://web.media.mit.edu/~minsky/papers/Frames/frames.html 18:33 < kanzure> "Well, let’s first observe that this claim must be wrong, because it is self-contradictory. For, if you can tell me that you have experienced sweetness then, somehow, that sensation has caused your mouth to move! So clearly, there must be some ‘physical instrument’ in your brain that recognized the mental activity that embodies your experience" 18:35 -!- fenn [~fenn@unaffiliated/fenn] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:35 < kanzure> logbot needs to be configured to use sasl 18:36 < kanzure> does sasl correctly kill ghosts? 18:51 -!- lichen [~lichen@c-50-139-11-6.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 18:53 -!- fenn [~fenn@unaffiliated/fenn] has quit [Quit: brb] 18:59 -!- fenn [~fenn@unaffiliated/fenn] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:00 -!- fenn_ [~fenn@unaffiliated/fenn] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:00 < fenn_> sasl doesn't ghost nicks but it seems to work fine for multiple logged in sessions using the same credentials 19:00 < fenn_> both fenn and i have the same cloak 19:01 < kanzure> oh that is weird 19:01 < kanzure> i wonder how that works 19:02 < fenn> hm what color am i 19:02 < kanzure> perfect, now i can flaunt my non-affiliation in all the best irc channels 19:02 < kanzure> i am with the anonymous group, Unaffiliated 19:02 < kanzure> my bad, i mean the Anonymous group, Unaffiliated 19:02 < fenn_> we are legion 19:03 < kanzure> maybe not 19:03 < fenn_> we are pretty forgiving 19:03 < kanzure> speak for yourself 19:03 < kanzure> i do not forget 19:03 < kanzure> i do not forgive 19:03 < kanzure> bring me papers 19:04 < kanzure> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoHAp14lYoc 19:04 < fenn> ok i am rapidly running out of screens 19:04 -!- fenn_ [~fenn@unaffiliated/fenn] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:07 < kanzure> nsh: i think a tagging system would make more sense anyway 19:07 < kanzure> having a pile of filenames is just not very useful 19:08 < nsh> agreed 19:08 < kanzure> i already have a hard enough time mapping "oh i read that in a paper" to "this is the paper that says the thing" 19:08 < fenn> new directions in frobnography: quo vadis? 19:08 < nsh> really, we need a system to tag with minimum overhead when scanning/reading with concepts 19:08 < nsh> then all for portions of papers to be reconstructed from the graph 19:08 < superkuh> Recoll full text search is pretty handy. 19:08 < kanzure> let's call it a conceptron or a perceptron 19:09 < nsh> but you need something like semantic wikipedia first 19:09 < nsh> so, as usual, we have to fix everything before we can fix anything 19:09 < kanzure> yeah let's not make ideas that require "semantic mediawiki" to work 19:09 < kanzure> yeah no thanks 19:09 < nsh> hey, i was totally going to do that in 2004 19:09 < nsh> just, distractions and stuff... 19:09 < fenn> i was joking when i said paperbot would read the papers for you, but it's actually a good idea 19:09 < kanzure> paper quality metric 19:10 < nsh> well, paperbot can extract SIPs (statis. improb. phrases) 19:10 < nsh> then you can use that for naive tagging 19:10 < superkuh> I often listen to my computer reading papers. 19:10 < fenn> there are bazillions of "document clustering" and "topic modelling" algos out there 19:10 < nsh> but it's not really the clustering or modeling we want 19:10 < fenn> i really have no idea what sort of output they generate 19:10 < nsh> it's the reconstruction of content in conceptually relevant ways 19:10 < kanzure> there have been about 2600 paperbot requests 19:11 < fenn> nsh: can't you do supervised learning tho? 19:11 < nsh> dunnomaybesuredunno 19:12 < kanzure> how did you guys go from filenaming to "okay let's create artificial general intelligence" 19:12 < fenn> when setting up sasl with irssi you have to do /network freenode -hosts irc.freenode.net 19:13 < kanzure> that's only if you do not have a freenode network already 19:13 < fenn> right, well, it was a stupid thing that wasn't obvious 19:14 -!- Beatzebub [~beatzebub@S0106b81619e8ecee.gv.shawcable.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:14 < fenn> document clustering is just statistics on word frequencies 19:15 < kanzure> what does that have to do with his hatred of %20 19:15 < fenn> if you're going to start tagging stuff, uh, how would you access the documents tagged with a particular tag? 19:16 < fenn> you could surf to papers/$tag/ 19:16 < kanzure> p7p3rz/$tag2+$tag2 19:17 < fenn> uh, i guess i was thinking a paper would be titled with some other crap that represented its tags 19:17 < kanzure> nah probably just some yaml file with tag maps 19:17 < kanzure> or stuff 19:17 < fenn> that's useless 19:17 < kanzure> well how does jotmuch do it 19:18 < fenn> a tiny gnome scribe with a magic quill 19:18 -!- Spitstream [~beatzebub@S0106b81619e8ecee.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:18 < fenn> how does jotmuch do it? 19:19 < kanzure> xapian :/ 19:19 < kanzure> https://github.com/davidlazar/jotmuch/blob/master/jot#L110 19:20 < fenn> but how do you browse a tag, what's the interface? 19:20 < kanzure> jot search tag:blah AND tag:foo AND site:yo.com 19:22 -!- rayston [~rayston@ip68-106-242-42.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:24 < fenn> oo random bookmark, how 1990s 19:24 < kanzure> returns a list 19:24 < fenn> "hotlist" 19:24 < fenn> .wik hotlist 19:24 < yoleaux> "Hotlist is a geo-social networking aggregator that enables users to coordinate plans with friends and discover what will be happening at millions of popular venues all over the world. Hotlist's web platform and iPhone app are the only Location-based services that emphasize plans." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hotlist 19:24 < fenn> pff 19:25 < kanzure> sounds like marketing promo 19:25 < fenn> "A list of frequently accessed documents. The term is often used to describe a list of Web pages that you keep in one place for easy access. In Netscape Navigator, the hotlist is called the bookmark list." 19:26 < fenn> back before search engines people would stick a pile of links on their homepage, usually labeled "hotlist" or somesuch 19:27 < fenn> NCSA mosaic used the term hotlist instead of bookmarks 19:31 < kanzure> so why did you mention random, again? 19:33 < fenn> it's an option in jot 19:34 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:34 < kanzure> oh 19:35 < fenn> i recommend never using wikipedia's "random page" function unless you want to become depressed 19:39 < fenn> extending jot to people tagging is maybe a good idea 19:40 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:41 < kanzure> yes probably.. 19:43 < fenn> i'd rather not have to prefix with tag: though 19:43 < kanzure> thats only when searching so far 19:44 < kanzure> i think they are dumping the search string straight into xapian 19:44 < fenn> it searches the archived html (if you haven't archived anything, it doesn't return anything) 19:44 < kanzure> oh i see. 19:48 < kanzure> "The "addrindex" branch (first post) currently requires about 37 GB on mainnet, but this one is fully optimized for the purpose of getting unspent outputs of any address, so it should be less. Given the amount of responses and activity on GitHub, it should be solid. https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/5048 " 19:50 < fenn> there should also be an easy automatic way to output a list of all tags sorted by number of bookmark/people/whatever with that tag 19:50 < fenn> or by date 19:51 < fenn> or some kind of 'median date of tag' 19:52 < kanzure> at one point i had implemented something like "trending uprising tags in well-known large clusters" 19:52 < kanzure> however, my dataset is not extremely granular 19:52 < kanzure> per-conversation tagging is just not that excellent 19:53 < kanzure> really what i have is per-day-per-person conversational tagging 19:53 < kanzure> which is even worse :) 19:54 < fenn> per day is good enough 19:55 < kanzure> marginally better than nothing 19:55 < kanzure> (new lesswrong competitor) 19:55 < fenn> marginallyincorrect 19:57 < kanzure> "grave danger" 19:57 < kanzure> i wonder how "i hope time traveling ai will forgive me" translates to 20:05 < fenn> onlymeat 20:06 < fenn> i'm surprised eudoxia hasn't shown up yet to complain about logs being down 20:14 -!- Maelstro [~beatzebub@S0106b81619e8ecee.gv.shawcable.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:18 -!- Beatzebub [~beatzebub@S0106b81619e8ecee.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:48 < fenn> superkuh do you have any opinion on recoll vs metatracker 20:48 < fenn> (aka tracker-search) 20:49 < fenn> it takes a long time to build an index with tracker since i have so many files 20:50 < superkuh> tracker's index always corrupts. 20:50 < superkuh> A month, maybe two. 20:50 < superkuh> Never an issue with recoll. 20:53 < superkuh> Plus it's really hard to get tracker to run on even slightly old systems. 20:53 < superkuh> At least versions that work. 20:53 < fenn> why is that? 20:53 < fenn> dependencies in the metadata extractors? 20:59 < fenn> guess i'll try recoll then 21:04 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:14 -!- Spitstream [~beatzebub@S0106b81619e8ecee.gv.shawcable.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:17 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:17 -!- Maelstro [~beatzebub@S0106b81619e8ecee.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:01 -!- rayston [~rayston@ip68-106-242-42.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:14 -!- Beatzebub_ [~beatzebub@S0106b81619e8ecee.gv.shawcable.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:16 -!- yashgaroth [~ffffff@2606:6000:cb85:6a00:4517:744c:e32a:6f28] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:18 -!- Spitstream [~beatzebub@S0106b81619e8ecee.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:23 < augur> i had a cute idea for a widget 22:24 < augur> you should take a fourier transform from a microphone, and translate it into physical vibration (but at a scaled down frequency, of course) and wear this on your arm or something 22:25 < augur> hearing people could use it for out-of-range frequencies, deaf people could use it for typical frequencies or others 22:25 < augur> it might, in fact, be able to restore hearing, to a degree. tho not the qualitative aspects 22:32 -!- sheena [~home@S0106c8be196316d1.ok.shawcable.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:57 < maaku_> kanzure: awesome!! i've wanted to see minsky's lectures for a long time 22:58 < maaku_> i think he's a crank and his theories mostly useless from a practical standpoint, but interesting nonetheless 22:58 -!- maaku_ is now known as maaku 23:00 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:03 < maaku> i should be kinder. society of mind is a good descriptive framework for explaining thought 23:03 < maaku> it's just not constructivist -- it explains what/why but not how 23:11 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:14 -!- Beatzebub__ [~beatzebub@S0106b81619e8ecee.gv.shawcable.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:16 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@2a02:810b:33f:dc18:3169:2d20:3f66:27ba] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:16 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@2a02:810b:33f:dc18:3169:2d20:3f66:27ba] has quit [Changing host] 23:16 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:17 -!- Beatzebub_ [~beatzebub@S0106b81619e8ecee.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:36 < augur> maaku: thats not really true 23:37 < augur> the society of mind framework is highly how-oriented 23:37 < augur> and its been used/implemented to various extents