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02:11 < NilsHitze> mornin
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02:53 < fenn> hopefully i'm not the only one who sees the irony in this: http://blog.codinghorror.com/the-incredible-linktron-5000tm/
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03:19 < ebowden> paperbot: http://www.nature.com/neuro/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/nn.3887.html
03:19 < paperbot> http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1038%2Fnn.3887
03:20 < ebowden> \:D/
03:24 < ebowden> paperbot: http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/nature13982.html
03:24 < paperbot> http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1038%2Fnature13982
03:25 < ebowden> \:D/
03:36 < ebowden> paperbot: http://www.cell.com/cell-metabolism/abstract/S1550-4131%2814%2900500-2
03:40 < ebowden> +tel duces http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=2cf_1341765742
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04:07 < ebowden> paperbot: http://www.jneurosci.org/content/34/35/11844
04:07 < paperbot> http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1523%2FJNEUROSCI.4642-12.2014
04:15 < ebowden> \:D/
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04:21 < ebowden> paperbot: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jnr.490330407/abstract
04:44 < ebowden> paperbot: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22127556
04:44 < paperbot> http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1007%2Fs00213-011-2594-8
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07:17 < kanzure> blah
07:18 < RedMEdic> blah blah blah blah
07:23 < kanzure> basically...
07:24 < RedMEdic> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgBj7Mc_4sc
07:24 < archels> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/chaibio/open-qpcr-dna-diagnostics-for-everyone
07:25 < RedMEdic> How much will this cost?
07:26 < archels> some $1299, according to that page
07:26 < RedMEdic> Damn
07:28 < kanzure> title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgBj7Mc_4sc
07:28 < kanzure> .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgBj7Mc_4sc
07:28 < yoleaux> The Poo in You - Constipation and Encopresis Educational Video - YouTube
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08:25 < kanzure> steve coles http://www.latimes.com/local/obituaries/la-me-stephen-coles-20141205-story.html
08:26 < kanzure> hehe "a 103-year-old woman to practice as a pediatrician and a 106-year-old woman to drive."
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08:40 < kanzure> more openworm stuff in the news http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22429972.300-first-digital-animal-will-be-perfect-copy-of-real-worm.html
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09:46 < kanzure> "The uneasy relationship between mathematics and cryptography" http://www.ams.org/notices/200708/tx070800972p.pdf
09:54 < kragen> is that Koblitz of the Koblitz elliptic curves?
09:56 < kanzure> heh #bitcoin-wizards just asked that same question
09:57 < kragen> yes
10:13 < kanzure> .title https://plus.google.com/+KajSotala/posts/ZGtGMRbHumM
10:13 < yoleaux> A sophisticated hacker group is targeting highly placed corporate personnel…
10:14 < kanzure> https://securelist.com/blog/research/66779/the-darkhotel-apt/
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10:34 < kanzure> http://einsteinpapers.press.princeton.edu/
10:34 < kanzure> http://www.einstein.caltech.edu/ with links to various highlights
10:35 < kanzure> "To Max Planck, on receiving credible death threats — Einstein writes that he cannot attend the Scientist’s Convention in Berlin because he is “supposedly among the group of persons being targeted by nationalist assassins.”"
10:35 < kanzure> hah
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10:38 < kanzure> what? his second year instructor just-so-happened to be minkowski? that seems a little unlikely... http://einsteinpapers.press.princeton.edu/vol1-trans/49
10:38 < kanzure> er i meant http://einsteinpapers.press.princeton.edu/vol1-trans/48 but same thing
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12:00 < nmz787_i> http://www.antha-lang.org/
12:01 < nmz787_i> .title
12:01 < yoleaux> Welcome to Antha - Antha
12:01 < nmz787_i> 'coding biology'
12:01 < nmz787_i> "Antha is a high-level language for biology, making it easy to rapidly compose reproducible work flows using individually testable and reusable Antha Elements."
12:01 < nmz787_i> "© 2014 Antha Authors. Code licensed under the GPL 2.0 License. Documentation licensed under CC BY 3.0. Proudly sponsored by Synthace"
12:01 < nmz787_i> https://github.com/antha-lang
12:01 < nmz787_i> kanzure: plz give your summary when ready
12:02 < RedMEdic> Are we discussing Antha again
12:02 < RedMEdic> Antha is bullshit
12:03 < nmz787_i> http://www.antha-lang.org/docs/intro.html
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12:04 < nmz787_i> when was it previously discussed?
12:04 < nmz787_i> (I can't grep the logs right now)
12:05 < nmz787_i> this doesn't look terrible, though I'd prefer something non-java (or javascrpit I guess) https://github.com/antha-lang/antha/blob/master/examples/bradford/bradford.an
12:06 < nmz787_i> or is this go?
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12:08 < nmz787_i> hmm, I cannot find an API function list
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12:10 < kanzure> http://in-theory.blogspot.com/2007/08/swift-boating-of-modern-cryptography.html
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12:10 < kanzure> nmz787_i: use http://transcriptic.com/platform instead of antha
12:13 < kanzure> "Greetings, At least one competing scientist has e-mailed me today to dispute the assertion, placed in the media, that Dr. Coles had "over 100" scientific journal articles published."
12:13 < kanzure> wtf
12:14 < kragen> "Without this technology, buying and selling things online would be extremely inconvenient and companies like amazon and ebay would probably not exist.
12:14 < kragen> this seems unlikely to me
12:15 < kragen> you'd just have to use something like kerberos and get a TGT to talk to Amazon instead of verifying that their cert isn't on the CRL
12:15 < kanzure> worst case scenario you would have lots and lots of escrow
12:16 < kragen> escrow doesn't make things less convenient
12:16 < kragen> just riskier
12:16 < kanzure> oh right, the claim was inconvenience and not impossibility
12:17 < kragen> aye
12:18 < kanzure> why would anyone dispute some dead guy's obituary saying x number of publications
12:19 < kragen> lies anger some people
12:21 < nmz787_i> jrayhawk:  ah hahahahah I just saw a spam email in my spam folder with the title "Overeating Sugar... CURES Diabetes?"
12:22 < nmz787_i> kanzure: I know of transcriptic... does your indication mean you've previously reviewed antha?
12:31 < heath> nmz787_i: last night
12:31 < heath> ..is when antha was mentioned
12:33 < heath> postgresql 9.4.0 to be released next week for anyone who cares
12:33 < heath> http://www.postgresql.org/message-id/26295.1417708564@sss.pgh.pa.us?utm_source=dbweekly&utm_medium=email
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12:41 < _0bitcount> "Wanderers" http://vimeo.com/108650530  . How I miss Carl Sagan.
12:48 < heath> _0bitcount: linked a few days ago :)
12:48 < heath> pretty neat vid though
12:48 < _0bitcount> Sorry for reposting. :-)
12:51 < _0bitcount> I wonder if we'll ever make it to those places. It will probably easier to send AI-powered spaceships with ultra-HD sensors to report back to Earth.
12:51 < archels> this one is worth reposting
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13:04 < heath> i guess that came off a bit annoying, apologies
13:09 < kragen> _0bitcount: it's easier today to weave cloth with automatic electric looms, but that doesn't stop enthusiasts from hand-weaving their own cloth
13:10 < kragen> it's mostly a question of will, which is to say, budget
13:12 < _0bitcount> kragen, true, but I think we humans will be very different from our present fragile being by then. Our bodies will have plenty of improvements to withstand the harsh environment of space.
13:13 < nmz787_i> _0bitcount: very cool vid
13:17 < _0bitcount> It really is.
13:17 < archels> _0bitcount: the space faring thing is just around in the corner--in fact we're already doing it now. In comparison to that, biological modifcations are much much more inchoate.
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13:19 < _0bitcount> archels, I truly hope that is about to happen. However, I read about how many in governments and big, old industries don't want the space frontier to be open...
13:19 < _0bitcount> ... except for their own, limited and restricted purporses.
13:21 < archels> okay, I don't want to get into a whole free market rhetoric here
13:21 < archels> shall we say... whatever works? :)
13:22 < _0bitcount> Maybe I am being a bit negative. Maybe, for today's technology, establishing permanent bases in the Moon and Mars is not that different from crossing the Bering Strait or the Atlantic Ocean centuries ago.
13:23 < _0bitcount> archels, I am confident that the pressures of the market will do their part on opening space for a lot more.  ;-)
13:24 < kragen> _0bitcount: yeah, it's totally plausible that we'll modify our bodies for spacefaring
13:24 < kragen> but we're not actually that fragile
13:27 < _0bitcount> kragen, but won't be easier/cheaper in, say, 30 years to send a highly autonomous fleet of ships to Jupiter, Europa, Saturn, etc than to make a habitable pod?
13:29 < kanzure> it'll also be cheaper to send emulated brains than fleshmatter, but what's your point?
13:31 < _0bitcount> My point is that we might miss visiting those worlds if it ends up being cheaper and easier to send our artificial servants.
13:31 < _0bitcount> And maybe experience those environments through virtual reality.
13:32 < kanzure> there is nothing glamorous about being stuck in a metal tin can for 40 years
13:32 < archels> kragen: eventually yeah, but these are wildly different timescales
13:33 < kanzure> calling an emulated brain a servant is a little strange but if you want to force non-cooperative people into doing stuff hey whatever
13:33 < _0bitcount> kanzure, unless it's like the Enterprise, holodeck and all.  :-)
13:35 < _0bitcount> kanzure, it was just a poetic way of thinking about it. They will probably feel more like a part of ourselves.
13:36 < archels> https://asciinema.org/
13:38 < archels> _0bitcount: Mars gets dull pretty quickly if you're just looking around
13:38 < archels> and the finite speed of light will make telepresence useless, anyway
13:39 < archels> so then we're back to sending WBEs, but I don't think that's what you meant
13:39 < kanzure> probably wont need to send *whole* brains either
13:39 < archels> what manner of evil is this now
13:40 < _0bitcount> archels, whether WBE or pure AI, that was my idea, that sending "someone" not made of flesh would be easier and more manageable.
13:41 < archels> oh okay, yeah I'm 100% with you on that one
13:41 < _0bitcount> So space tourism will end up being something we do around Earth's orbit, maybe on the Moon.
13:42 < archels> that's very different from sending "artificial servants" though and experiencing things vicariously through VR
13:43 < _0bitcount> So are we not considering AIs like servants anymore?  :-)
13:44 < archels> well, either *you* go, or you stay at home and look at a video feed with six and half minute delay
13:45 < _0bitcount> Not that I have anything against conceding them full citizenry. I am sure I will love my daily AI helpers more than many among the people I have to deal with.
13:49 < _0bitcount> archels, "video" sounds very XX century. How about ultra-HD 3D systems? I we can buffer enough of the surroundings, an immersive experience is going to be realistic enough.
13:51 < archels> like Google street view? sure, but like you said, then we're just looking at a cached, Earthbound data stream
13:53 < kanzure> i can't follow the conversation any more
13:53 < kanzure> send many cheap things this is good
13:54 < archels> sending humans, too
13:54 < archels> be they in digital or analog form
13:57 < nmz787_i> wow, the comments here are vulgar and violent (I don't think I
13:57 < nmz787_i> 'd heard of this before today) https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/secretlabs/agent-the-worlds-smartest-watch/comments
13:59 < nmz787_i> wow this is really cool https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9b0J29OzAU
13:59 < nmz787_i> .title
13:59 < yoleaux> World's Simplest Electric Train 【世界一簡単な構造の電車】 - YouTube
14:01 < nmz787_i> chris_99: there's a UK BOM for that here http://hackaday.com/2014/12/04/amazing-sciences-simple-electric-train/#comment-2210842
14:02 < chris_99> heh cool, cheers
14:05 < chris_99> oh i didn't think the bettery was doing anything, but apparently it's creating an electromagnet using the copper coil?
14:09 < nmz787_i> yea
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14:30 < kragen> _0bitcount: it might be easier and cheaper, but people might still do both
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14:31 < kragen> I don't think anybody has a very clear idea of the timescales we're talking about here
14:34 < _0bitcount> kragen, at what point in time are you expecting those capabilities to be common?
14:35 < kragen> sometime this century or next
14:35 < kragen> maybe next month
14:36 < _0bitcount> ?
14:47 < _0bitcount> kragen, that's not very reassuring. Some could say we should just forget and focus on more urgent matters down here, on Earth.
14:47 < kanzure> why do you care about what they say?
14:54 < _0bitcount> kanzure, what do you mean?
14:55 < kanzure> whether or not it takes a month for capabilities to be common should be an independent analysis from whether or not there exist people who say "forget and focus on other problems"
14:57 < _0bitcount> kanzure, since large scale problems require a lot of money, public relations is a big imperative in selling politicians and the public the need for something.
14:57 < _0bitcount> Hence having to be more or less accurate with the dates.
14:59 < _0bitcount> Imagine Elon Musk telling investors and potential customers that "a competitive electric vehicle would be ready by next month, maybe 2050."
14:59 < kanzure> elon musk will still do whatever the fuck he wants independent of the existence of people who want to "forget and focus on other problems"
14:59 < kanzure> so your argument is still garbage
15:01 < kragen> calm down, kanzure
15:01 < _0bitcount> kanzure, it might be garbage, but I don't like people like Tesla dying in destitution for lack of support.
15:01 < kanzure> bad arguments are bad and should be rejected
15:01 < kanzure> i odn't understand what destitution has to do with this
15:01 < kragen> it'll be okay
15:01 < kanzure> no it wont if you let bad arguments stick around your SNR drops
15:02 < kragen> _0bitcount: designing a competitive electric vehicle doesn't require any basic science; even when Tesla started, it was just a matter of engineering and cost control.
15:02 < _0bitcount> I was talking about Nikola Tesla in that last example.
15:03 < _0bitcount> Sorry for mixing things up.
15:03 < kanzure> no it is elon who should apologize for violating namespace integrity
15:03 < kanzure> actually didn't elon get into tesla after tesla was named tesla?
15:03 < kanzure> so anyway, at most you can blame him for continuing to allow it to be named tesla
15:04 < kragen> Whole-brain emulation, by contrast, requires new basic science, as does adapting our bodies to outer space.  Sending humans to Jupiter might be possible without new basic science, but we could only do it without new basic science on such a long timeframe that new relevant basic science will probably emerge.
15:04 < kanzure> you could send all the cadavers you like, does that help?
15:04 < kragen> So all of these things are deeply unpredictable.  That alone wouldn't justify "maybe next month".
15:05 < kanzure> tesla didn't die in destitution because people who argued "forget and focus on other problems"
15:05 < kanzure> *because of
15:05 < kragen> But maybe next month an AGI developed at Google's Switzerland office will FOOM and perhaps decide that sending AGIs to Jupiter is an eminently reasonable idea and should happen as soon as possible.  Say, within a week.
15:06 < kragen> I mean these are just very difficult things to predict.
15:08 < _0bitcount> kanzure, I was under the impression that he was kind of a humanist, so bankers and financiers ended up not wanting anything to do with him.
15:08 < kragen> He was insane, which made it hard to work with him.
15:09 < kanzure> you are both off on some weirdo political tangent now that i refuse to follow
15:09 < kanzure> i still hold that whether or not it takes a month for capabilities to be common should be an independent analysis from whether or not there exist people who say "forget and focus on other problems"
15:09 < _0bitcount> I'm not claiming any accurate, historical knowledge, only what I have read.
15:09 < kanzure> and that you should not be telling me that the existence of people who are not interested in your proposals are the primary reason for your inability to execute
15:10 < kragen> Hopefully you're talking to _0bitcount here.  I'm well aware that my own inability to execute is entirely self-generated!
15:10 < kragen> Also, I'm not trying to execute any of those things.
15:10 < kanzure> right, i mean _0bitcount
15:11 < kanzure> and i'm glad to hear that you're "well aware that my own inability to execute is entirely self-generated" hehe
15:11 < kanzure> arguably you should be trying to execute at least some of those things, though
15:12 < kanzure> uh, in this context i'm not sure which subset
15:12 < kragen> I mean maybe a different environment would be more congenial to it and compensate better for my weaknesses.  But fundamentally they're my weaknesses, not the world's.
15:12 < _0bitcount> kanzure, I like that attitude. :-)  I frequently remind myself that I should be doing what I want, not what is, apparently, expected of me.
15:12 < kragen> _0bitcount: what you want is not necessarily what you should be doing
15:13 < kragen> I mean that's sort of a pure hedonist viewpoint, exacerbated by a failure to recognize your own irrationality
15:13 < kanzure> wanting the impossible is a recipe for a bad dinner
15:13 < _0bitcount> I wasn't thinking about space, just more mundane things.
15:13 < kanzure> well, i mean, wanting to cheat around certain amounts of effort investments is a recipe for bad tastes in your mouth
15:14 < kragen> yeah
15:14 < kanzure> although for certain things it is attainable to cheat
15:14 < kanzure> mostly these are already existing things
15:15 < kanzure> if i had more working memory then i would elaborate on this concept but i can't picture it correctly
15:15 < kanzure> i don't think it's precisely irrationality, just something like a mismatch of effort expectation versus outcome estimation
15:15 < kragen> you need the right amount of "cheating" to be successful.  Too much "cheating" and you defeat yourself, like Coyote nailing his eyelids shut
15:15 < kragen> Too little "cheating" and most of your hard work is wasted.
15:16 < kanzure> "cheating" is stuff like "naaah i'm sure the government will do this for me"
15:16 < kragen> yeah, that's a good strategy in many cases
15:17 < kanzure> so far the government has not put people on mars, so arguably no?
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15:17 < kragen> no, but it did pay for the development of most of the technology needed to do so.
15:18 < kragen> if that's your goal, you should focus your efforts on things where they will make more difference, for example, things the government is less likely to do for you.
15:19 < kragen> And maybe figuring out how to avoid coming into direct conflict with the government.
15:19 < kragen> e.g. do your stem-cell research in South Korea, not the US.
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15:42 < kanzure> hmm one of the openworm people is doing bitcoin things https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/5231
15:42 < kanzure> stalkermatrix wins again
15:50 < pasky> luke-jr is working on openworm too?
15:50 < pasky> he runs eligius, my favorite mining pool (when i was still mining bitcoins)
15:51 < kanzure> nope not luke-jr
15:51 < kanzure> "ABISprotocol"
15:53 < kanzure> pasky: hi
15:54 < kanzure> i have been meaning to bug you about ai things
15:55 < pasky> hi :)
15:55 < pasky> bug on
15:56 < kanzure> page 4 figure 2 http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/neuro/randall-oreilly/Biologically%20based%20computational%20models%20of%20high-level%20cognition.pdf
15:56 < kanzure> page 3 figure 3 http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/neuro/randall-oreilly/Towards%20an%20executive%20without%20a%20homunculus:%20computational%20models%20of%20the%20prefrontal%20cortex%20basal%20ganglia%20system.pdf
15:56 < kanzure> page 6 figure 4 of http://arxiv.org/vc/arxiv/papers/1008/1008.5161v1.pdf
15:56 < kanzure> what do you think?
15:57 < kanzure> my primary concern is that this is already highly conserved between animals and therefore seems to be insufficient to make general intelligence 
16:01 < pasky> *scratches head*
16:01 < pasky> i'm not sure i can think anything about it before reading these papers in detail
16:02 < pasky> obviously the arxiv paper seems most comprehensible to me
16:02 < kanzure> i'm really on the fence as to whether or not to like that paper
16:02 < pasky> but the title of that figure is rather amusing
16:02 < kanzure> yes :)
16:03 < kanzure> if you want some really long reading then this paper (miscategorized, so bite me) is good http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/neuro/randall-oreilly/Towards%20a%20universal%20cortical%20algorithm:%20Examining%20hierarchical%20temporal%20memory%20in%20light%20of%20frontal%20cortical%20function.pdf
16:03 < kanzure> (this was also found on arxiv, which is a nice trend)
16:04 < pasky> ah, HTMs
16:05 < kanzure> sorta
16:06 < pasky> i think i need to pick something to focus on here - so basically what you are pondering is how the brain decides which things to remember?
16:07 < kanzure> more like, given what we have previously discussed and your insistence on symbolic computation, do you think this is an interesting direction even if it is explicitly non-symbolic
16:08 < kanzure> uh, and questions like, methods of estimation of the plausibility of an implementation option (such as those diagrams) doing anything interesting without buying 100 billion supercomputers for testing
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16:10 < kanzure> oh this is curious, "The frontal lobes have long been among the least well understood regions of the brain. Early experiments using lesion and electrical stimulation failed to identify any clear functions for the majority of frontal cortex, resulting in their being considered the "silent lobes" for much of the twentieth century. It is only in the last several decades that new techniques have allowed researchers to begin to build an ...
16:10 < kanzure> ... understanding of frontal lobe function."
16:10 < pasky> hehe, i would certainly not say about myself that i'm in favor of "symbolic computation" at all; but maybe definitions of symbolic computation vary
16:10 < kanzure> regarding that last link, perhaps starting at page 31 would be better
16:11 < kanzure> oh it is possible that i am misremembering your design proposal thingy
16:11 < pasky> but so far I don't even really understand what are the diagrams *about* - i thought it's about memory updates, but now it seems more like about action selection; i'll just read the papers i guess
16:11 < pasky> maybe it's both
16:11 < kanzure> they are mixing memory and action selection sort of
16:11 < kanzure> executable memory of sorts
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16:32 < pasky> (in general, i'm not in favor of insisting to emulate the brain down to details to reproduce general intelligence, biologically plausible neurons etc.; but doing *architecturally* similar things makes a lot of sense, and i'm e.g. huge fan of distributed representations)
16:33 < kanzure> "distributed representations"?
16:33 < pasky> i'll need some time to digest this; i've read pages 31-47 of that last link and it's really interesting
16:33 < pasky> kanzure: ever heard of word2vec?
16:33 < kanzure> "This tool provides an efficient implementation of the continuous bag-of-words and skip-gram architectures for computing vector representations of words. These representations can be subsequently used in many natural language processing applications and for further research."
16:33 < kanzure> "The word2vec tool takes a text corpus as input and produces the word vectors as output. It first constructs a vocabulary from the training text data and then learns vector representation of words. The resulting word vector file can be used as features in many natural language processing and machine learning applications."
16:34 < pasky> basically, the point is that each word is represented by a long vector (typically 100D), which originally was a hidden layer of an ANN
16:35 < pasky> and the vector space emerging from this is very regular
16:35 < eudoxia> i think i heard about this today at lunch
16:35 < kanzure> so this is just giant multi-dimensional matrix math?
16:35 < eudoxia> vector operations preserve semantics
16:35 < pasky> the popular example is that doing aritmetics is meaningful; if you do king + woman - man, the word with smallest cosine distance to that vector is "queen"
16:36 < pasky> it doesn't work 100% but it works surprisingly often
16:36 < pasky> and such properties are completely implicit in the system; it really does come from an internal representation in a neuron network trained for some context-based word prediction task
16:36 < pasky> so these are distributed representations in natural language processing
16:37 < pasky> now in computer vision you also have them
16:37 < pasky> you probably heard about convolutional neural networks that can detect objects on images with extremely high precisions, do pretty impressive segmentation tasks etc.
16:37 < pasky> and detect cats in videos :)
16:38 < pasky> again it's an ANN that has as output layer that indicates something like the type of object on the image
16:38 < pasky> but if you tear that output layer away and look at the last hidden layer representation, you again get a 100D vector that is a distributed representation with quite rich description of the semantics of the image
16:39 < pasky> now the funny thing is that you can learn mapping between image and word vectors to build text descriptions of images
16:41 < pasky> you start with some training set, but then on the testing set you are able to describe images using *unseen* words - so based on training set about cars and cats, you can label a picture of a plane as "airplane" even if you never saw one in the training set
16:41 < pasky> it's where the "deep learning" fashion in AI is going now
16:43 < pasky> and of course all of these tasks are about recognition stuff, there is more niche research on how to take actions (the famous deepmind paper on atari games), but noone seems to have *any* *fricking* *clue* how to get planning involved in this all
16:44 < pasky> (of course everyone has many ideas, but nothing that works on any interesting scale; I don't think we even have good testcases for this)
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16:46 < pasky> (to clarify - word2vec actually is a trivial case of ANN, so it's often not even described as an ANN; but it's in the same abstraction space)
16:47 < kanzure> so you are claiming that a large enough vector of characteristics/properties/attributes is equivalent to a hidden layer in an ANN?
16:48 < kanzure> or what is the transformation function exactly between the two
16:48 < pasky> it's some tensor, just matrix math
16:48 < pasky> or maybe even just matrix multiplication, i'm not sure now
16:49 < kanzure> so is the claim that these vectors are losslessly convertable into trained neural network topologies with weights n' stuff
16:49 < kanzure> convertible
16:49 < pasky> oh, nope
16:49 < pasky> it *is* weight vector of one hidden layer
16:50 < pasky> information about other layers (if there are more) is not stored in it
16:50 < pasky> in the word2vec context, you typically train the network then just keep that weight vector and throw away the network
16:50 < pasky> because the network just predicts the next word when you saw the last 100
16:54 < pasky> we call it distributed representations because we imagine it like brain neuron activity; instead of having individual vector elements associated with fixed meaning, the semantics is stored in a complex way distributed over many elements
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17:25 < kanzure> "As a comparison, Uber raised money at a $18B valuation in June, and then closed a round at $40B a few days ago. While a smaller percentage increase, Instacart's $1.6B increase in value looks pretty trivial compared to Uber's $22B increase over the same time period."
17:26 < nmz787> .title http://whatisgon.wordpress.com/2011/11/30/export-gimp-xcf-layers-as-jpegs/
17:26 < yoleaux> Export Gimp XCF Layers as Jpegs | What is Going On?
17:26 < nmz787> (using Python)
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17:27 < nmz787> and the API that roughly corresponds (the Python docs for GIMP seem pretty horrible to me, no API list) http://oldhome.schmorp.de/marc/pdb/file_jpeg_save.html
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17:48 < jrayhawk> nmz787: actually there were some very very very high-carb low-fat diet trials in, like, the fifties that reversed diabetes
17:48 < jrayhawk> so low fat that compliance outside of a metabolic ward is nigh-impossible
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17:51 < kanzure> er, the real diabetes?
17:51 < jrayhawk> which one is real
17:53 < jrayhawk> http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=kempner+rice+diet
17:53 < kanzure> pancreatic underproduction of insulin is the real one, right?
17:55 < nmz787> paperbot: science
17:55 < nmz787> paperbot: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0002934350902002
17:55 < jrayhawk> type 1 diabetes is (at least) two diseases; one is autoimmunity targeting beta cells, two is various downstream effects of underproduction of insulin as a result of all the beta cells being dead.
17:55 < paperbot> nmz787: get it yourself
17:56 < jrayhawk> hahaha
17:57 < jrayhawk> type 2 is cellular insulin resistance, generally caused by either oxidative stress or inflammation
17:57 < jrayhawk> there's also type 1.5 which is where the beta cells become so overburdened by compensatory production in type 2 that they all die off and you effectively get the second half of type 1 diabetes.
17:58 < jrayhawk> some have argued for dementia being type 3, but that's unsettled
17:59 < kanzure> i would definitely count 1.5 as real
17:59 < nmz787> paperbot got rude
18:09 < jrayhawk> 1.5 is also pretty hard to get
18:10 < jrayhawk> generally you need decades of pancreatic punishment to achieve it
18:11 < jrayhawk> i think pre-diabetes is bullshit, if you want something to be skeptical of
18:12 < kanzure> is pre-diabetes supposed to be about type 1, type 2, type 1.5, or something else, or any of them?
18:12 < jrayhawk> it's pre-type 2
18:12 < nmz787> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKiP-4o3cFI
18:12 < nmz787> .title
18:12 < yoleaux> Direct Digital Synthesis (DDS) with Bil Herd - YouTube
18:13 < jrayhawk> or, rather, in the spectrum of severity of type 2, it is low enough that doctors don't feel comfortable diagnosing an intervention or something
18:15 < jrayhawk> the entire concept of "standard lab ranges" in standard of care are also insane, so there's probably some reason for its existence derived therefrom
18:45 < nmz787> fenn: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVD5qKIY6ZM
18:45 < nmz787> .title
18:45 < yoleaux> 3 Minutes On... The Intel 4004 Microprocessor - YouTube
18:45 < nmz787> fenn: apparently they released tons of data on it a few years ago
18:59 < kanzure> http://blog.uber.com/ride-ahead
18:59 < kanzure> "This kind of continued growth requires investment. To that end, we have just raised a financing round of $1.2 billion, with additional capacity remaining for strategic investments. This financing will allow Uber to make substantial investments, particularly in the Asia Pacific region."
19:12 < nmz787> http://firstmicroprocessor.com/documents/2013powerpoint.ppt
19:13 < nmz787> .wik horners rule
19:13 < yoleaux> "In mathematics, Horner's method (also known as Horner scheme in the UK or Horner's rule in the U.S.) is either of two things: (i) an algorithm for calculating polynomials, which consists of transforming the monomial form into a computationally efficient form; or (ii) a method for approximating the roots of a polynomial." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horner's_method
19:17 < nmz787> .wik booths multiply algorithm
19:17 < yoleaux> "Booth's multiplication algorithm is a multiplication algorithm that multiplies two signed binary numbers in two's complement notation. The algorithm was invented by Andrew Donald Booth in 1950 while doing research on crystallography at Birkbeck College in Bloomsbury, London." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Booth's_multiplication_algorithm
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19:56 < kanzure> "When it’s 3 A.M., and you’ve been debugging for 12 hours, and you encounter a virtual static friend protected volatile templated function pointer, you want to go into hibernation and awake as a werewolf and then find the people who wrote the C++ standard and bring ruin to the things that they love."
20:00 < kanzure> "To a first approximation, we can say that accidents are almost always the result of incorrect estimates of the likelihood of one or more things."
20:00 < kanzure> "A typical designer (20 years into a 40 year career) • Has less than 5,000 hours of real hands-on system experience … and, almost none of this is in the system’s real environment (When was the last time you saw a designer riding in an electronics bay of an aircraft?)"
20:00 < kanzure> this is from http://www.rvs.uni-bielefeld.de/publications/DriscollMurphyv19.pdf
20:01 < kanzure> "We cannot rely on our experience-based intuition to determine
20:01 < kanzure> whether a failure can happen within required probability limits"
20:01 < kanzure> er, i meant "We cannot rely on our experience-based intuition to determine whether a failure can happen within required probability limits."
20:03 < kanzure> " An effect crossing a sufficient number of layers of abstraction [in some system's design] is indistinguishable from magic*"
20:05 < kanzure> "How many Failure Modes and Effects Analysis (FMEA) procedures ask what would happen if one electrical part (a diode) changed into another (a capacitor)? At the electrical part level, this appears to be magic. And, yet, the simplest of failures (a crack) caused this transmogrification. The literature includes other examples of capacitors becoming resistors, transistors becoming silicon controlled rectifiers (SCRs), amplifiers becoming ...
20:05 < kanzure> ... oscillators, …"
20:23 < kanzure> "I watched Roy Walford miss out on grants because he did Biosphere II, and wrote popular books. [...] And even Jared Diamond outgrew UCLA, though he had his ducks in a row, and he did everything right as an metabolism specialist."
20:23 < kanzure> metabolism? i wouldn't have guessed
20:33 < kanzure> "Next year companies will make final investment decisions (FIDs) on a total of 800 oil and gas projects worth $500 billion and totalling nearly 60 billion barrels of oil equivalent, according to data from Norwegian consultancy Rystad Energy."
20:44 < kanzure> "The brains of these early hominins were about the same size as that of a chimpanzee, although it has been suggested that this was the time in which the human SRGAP2 gene doubled, producing a more rapid wiring of the frontal cortex"
20:45 < kanzure> "This protein in humans has been duplicated three times in the human genome in the past 3.4 million years, one duplication 3.4 million years ago (mya) called SRGAP2B, a second duplication 2.4 mya (called SRGAP2C) and one final duplication ~1 mya (SRGAP2D). The ancestral gene SRGAP2 is found in all mammals and the human copy has been renamed SRGAP2A. The 2.4 million year-old duplication (SRGAP2C) expresses a shortened version that 100% of ...
20:45 < kanzure> ... humans possess.[6] This shortened version SRGAP2C inhibits the function of the ancestral copy SRGAP2A and (1) allows faster migration of neurons by interfering with filopodia production and (2) slows the rate of synaptic maturation and increases the density of synapses in the cerebral cortex.[4]"
20:45 < kanzure> (from <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SRGAP2>)
20:46 < kanzure> "This increase in human brain size is equivalent to every generation having an additional 125,000 neurons more than their parents."
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21:51 < kanzure> "mindreading (also known as ‘theory of mind’)"
22:11 < kanzure> https://events.ccc.de/congress/2014/Fahrplan/events/5956.html
22:11 < kanzure> "In this presentation we will be discussing the path we took to successfully develop our own private server for Metal Gear Online on the Sony PlayStation 2 and PlayStation 3 video game consoles. Interestingly enough this was a private server that was developed after the original was already taken offline, so we did not have a live active server to help with the reverse engineering. Due to this we ran into some issues but ultimately ...
22:11 < kanzure> ... succeeded. We believe that the details of the techniques that we used will prove useful for anyone attempting similar actions in the future. The topics that we will discuss in this talk will cover a wide range of high and low level issues related to network protocol and binary reversing."
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