--- Day changed Thu Dec 18 2014
00:01 < archels> '"Futurist" is the same as "clueless moron"'
00:40 < maaku> "clueless moron with a blog"
01:07 -!- pete4242 [~smuxi@boole.london.hackspace.org.uk] has joined ##hplusroadmap
01:14 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
01:14 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has joined ##hplusroadmap
01:45 -!- shubhamgoyal [~shubhamgo@nusnet-228-5.dynip.nus.edu.sg] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
01:58 < altersid> ha ha
02:12 -!- shubhamgoyal [~shubhamgo@nusnet-228-5.dynip.nus.edu.sg] has joined ##hplusroadmap
02:25 -!- shubhamgoyal [~shubhamgo@nusnet-228-5.dynip.nus.edu.sg] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
02:27 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap
02:30 -!- shubhamgoyal [~shubhamgo@nusnet-228-5.dynip.nus.edu.sg] has joined ##hplusroadmap
02:31 -!- shubhamgoyal [~shubhamgo@nusnet-228-5.dynip.nus.edu.sg] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
02:52 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
03:26 -!- delinquentme [~dingo@74.61.157.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
03:27 -!- sandeep [~sandeep@117.254.220.219] has joined ##hplusroadmap
03:28 -!- sandeep is now known as Guest69647
03:38 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-121-223-157-226.lns2.bat.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
03:39 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-121-223-157-226.lns2.bat.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap
03:59 -!- poppingtonic [~poppingto@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
04:07 -!- ebowden_ [~ebowden@CPE-121-223-157-226.lns2.bat.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap
04:08 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-121-223-157-226.lns2.bat.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
04:11 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-121-223-157-226.lns2.bat.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap
04:12 -!- ebowden_ [~ebowden@CPE-121-223-157-226.lns2.bat.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
04:26 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-134-50-153.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap
04:37 -!- shubhamgoyal [~shubhamgo@118.189.209.93] has joined ##hplusroadmap
04:37 -!- shubhamg_ [~shubhamgo@118.189.209.93] has joined ##hplusroadmap
04:41 -!- shubhamgoyal [~shubhamgo@118.189.209.93] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
05:02 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap
05:09 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-121-223-157-226.lns2.bat.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
05:10 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-121-223-157-226.lns2.bat.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap
05:12 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-121-223-157-226.lns2.bat.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
05:12 -!- weles [~mariusz@wsip-174-78-132-9.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
05:19 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
05:20 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap
06:16 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-134-50-153.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
07:00 < kanzure> futurwho?
07:16 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
07:16 -!- Viper168_ [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap
07:34 -!- DumpsterD1ver [~loki@50.242.254.37] has joined ##hplusroadmap
07:44 -!- Guest69647 [~sandeep@117.254.220.219] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
08:06 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
08:12 -!- DumpsterD1ver [~loki@50.242.254.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
08:12 -!- juri_ [~juri@vpn166.sdf.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
08:14 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined ##hplusroadmap
08:17 < heath> https://neurokernel.github.io/
08:17 < heath> .title
08:17 < yoleaux> Neurokernel
08:17 < heath> "an open source platform for emulating the fruit fly brain", written in python
08:17 < heath> https://github.com/neurokernel/neurokernel?utm_source=Python+Weekly+Newsletter&utm_campaign=0e11c2a84d-Python_Weekly_Issue_170_December_18_2014&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_9e26887fc5-0e11c2a84d-312677141
08:18 < heath> i guess that's the most important part: python weekly so i don't have to paste these links :)
08:19 < kanzure> links are okay
08:19 < kanzure> if you find yourself totally bored then maybe read these things http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/neuro/randall-oreilly/
08:20 -!- juri_ [~juri@vpn166.sdf.org] has joined ##hplusroadmap
08:23 -!- DumpsterD1ver [~loki@50.242.254.37] has joined ##hplusroadmap
08:32 -!- DumpsterD1ver [~loki@50.242.254.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
08:35 -!- nmz787_i [~nmccorkx@134.134.139.74] has joined ##hplusroadmap
09:03 -!- EnabrinTain [sid11525@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-aepznyeobvxzvlhy] has joined ##hplusroadmap
09:06 -!- delinquentme [~dingo@74.61.157.78] has joined ##hplusroadmap
09:08 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r167-56-3-190.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap
09:22 < heath> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=be4LrGn0lPg
09:22 < heath> .title
09:22 < yoleaux> square steel tubes bending | CMM laser - YouTube
09:22 < heath> linked from my friend ethan chew
09:22 < kanzure> nydfs bitlicense livestream transcript http://diyhpl.us/wiki/transcripts/nydfs-bitlicense-lawsky-update/
10:00 -!- HEx1 [~HEx@hexwab.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
10:00 -!- Merovoth [~Merovoth@gateway/tor-sasl/merovoth] has joined ##hplusroadmap
10:05 -!- HEx1 [~HEx@hexwab.plus.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap
10:32 < fenn> bender would be proud
10:33 < fenn> it's such an obviously better way of building tube frames i'm kinda surprised i haven't seen anything like it
10:34 < fenn> that would be totally doable with a paper template and $200 plasma cutter
10:36 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r167-56-3-190.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
10:45 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
10:57 -!- juri_ [~juri@vpn166.sdf.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
10:58 < heath> paperbot: https://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?doid=321239.321249
10:58 < paperbot> http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1145%2F321239.321249
10:58 < heath> or http://lcs.ios.ac.cn/~chm/papers/derivative-tr200910.pdf
11:04 -!- juri_ [~juri@vpn166.sdf.org] has joined ##hplusroadmap
11:05 < nmz787_i> that metal cutting lab is huge, or at least filled with huge amount of machines
11:06 < kanzure> too bad "dead or alive you're coming with me" wasn't a kenshin quote
11:15 < kragen> heath: I didn't see your message until now, and he's already left for the day
11:17 < kragen> fenn: Matt Brand did work with scratch holography?  derived from Bill Beaty or no?
11:30 -!- HEx1 [~HEx@hexwab.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
11:30 < kanzure> not sure what this does https://github.com/athyuttamre/tab-snooze
11:31 < kanzure> "The way this feature works in mailbox is you can "snooze" an email. After making your timeframe selection, it will leave your inbox, then return when you selected. For example, if you get a work email on the weekend about something you need to take care of on Monday, you can snooze it until "Next week" and it the email will immediately leave your inbox, then return the following Monday."
11:31 < kanzure> that is weird
11:31 < kanzure> from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8767143
11:35 < kragen> that's a good idea because people use their email as a to-do list
11:36 < kanzure> what i want is some sort of bookmark-tab saving thing that caches the tab state for later, without requiring extra http requests to the original servers
11:39 -!- nmz787_i [~nmccorkx@134.134.139.74] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
11:57 -!- nmz787_i [~nmccorkx@134.134.139.74] has joined ##hplusroadmap
12:03 < fenn> almost like a browser cache...
12:03 < fenn> (netscape used to do this; you could browse offline pages that had been viewed)
12:06 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap
12:07 < fenn> what i want is a e-ink dynabook loaded with a smalltalk-80 OS and a solar panel on the back
12:08 < fenn> generating bitcoin keys in a minimalist environment makes you realize how much shit is running that you don't really need
12:08 < fenn> and how fast a "netbook" can be
12:09 < fenn> uh oh deja vu
12:09 < fenn> i think i've done this rant before
12:12 < nmz787_i> https://medium.com/backchannel/how-we-email-hardware-to-space-7d46eed00c98
12:12 < nmz787_i> pretty neat
12:12 < fenn> while i'm at it, for christmas i'd like an eletric aptera with LCARS interfaces and a portable solid state cold fusion generator
12:26 < fenn> Cowan’s college friend rented her garage to Sergey and Larry for their first year. In 1999 and 2000 she tried to introduce Cowan to “these two really smart Stanford students writing a search engine”. Students? A new search engine? In the most important moment ever for Bessemer’s anti-portfolio, Cowan asked her, “How can I get out of this house without going anywhere near your garage?”
12:27 < fenn> PayPal - Cowan passed on the Series A round. Rookie team, regulatory nightmare
12:29 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r167-56-3-190.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap
12:30 < fenn> eudoxia how's the weather
12:30 < eudoxia> fenn: it's precious i was just sunbathing on my bed
12:44 < kanzure> dead in 3 years from supercancer
12:44 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
12:44 -!- Urchin [~urchin@unaffiliated/urchin] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
12:45 < kanzure> .title http://arxiv.org/abs/1412.5567
12:45 < yoleaux> [1412.5567] DeepSpeech: Scaling up end-to-end speech recognition
12:45 < fenn> today i passed on a 15 pound moldy ham
12:45 < kanzure> "We present a state-of-the-art speech recognition system developed using end-to-end deep learning. Our architecture is significantly simpler than traditional speech systems, which rely on laboriously engineered processing pipelines; these traditional systems also tend to perform poorly when used in noisy environments. In contrast, our system does not need hand-designed components to model background noise, reverberation, or speaker ...
12:45 < kanzure> ... variation, but instead directly learns a function that is robust to such effects. We do not need a phoneme dictionary, nor even the concept of a "phoneme." Key to our approach is a well-optimized RNN training system that uses multiple GPUs, as well as a set of novel data synthesis techniques that allow us to efficiently obtain a large amount of varied data for training. Our system, called DeepSpeech, outperforms previously published ...
12:45 < kanzure> ... results on the widely studied Switchboard Hub5'00, achieving 16.5% error on the full test set. DeepSpeech also handles challenging noisy environments better than widely used, state-of-the-art commercial speech systems."
12:45 < kanzure> fenn: must have been tough, being a vegetable and all
12:46 < fenn> it was a local product, "air cured" extremely dense thing in a cloth bag
12:46 < kanzure> i just missed a big joke opportunity, can i have a redo?
12:46 < kanzure> fenn: must have been tough, you being a vegetable and all
12:46 < kanzure> fixed.
12:46 < fenn> redo! you want a redo! let me tell you something sonny, life never gives you a redo.
12:47 < kanzure> redo would be a good name for a deep brain memory stimulation company
12:48 < kanzure> "invasive operations" would be the second runner up name
12:48 < kanzure> "Clinically dead pregnant woman being kept alive in Irish hospital because of abortion laws"
12:48 < kanzure> so what you're saying is that dead women can host a fetus to term?
12:49 < kanzure> oh, this is probably just some brain dead person. hrm.
12:49 < fenn> yes
12:49 < kanzure> "all the joys of pregnancy without none of them disgusting psychological effects"
12:49 < kanzure> surrogacy industry is going to be devastated
12:49 < fenn> i think that's an excellent idea; even better if they can be used for additional pregnancies
12:50 < kanzure> right. fuck paying people to live 9 months of misery, when this is available.
12:50 < kanzure> although, who gets paid?
12:50 < fenn> needs statistically significant data to determine outcomes though
12:50 < EnabrinTain> Axlotl Tanks
12:50 < fenn> if 90% of the babies have severe developmental problems it's not a win
12:51 < superkuh> The hospital bill for keeping them alive is probably more than the cost of a live host.
12:51 < kanzure> maybe you pay the families of the deceased...?
12:51 < fenn> superkuh: sure but that's fixable
12:51 < kanzure> a live host is somewhere between $15k and "100% of your annual salary for 1 year"
12:51 < kanzure> yeah i think long-term pregnancy care can happen outside of a hopsital
12:51 < kanzure> *hospital
12:51 < kanzure> where are the coma wards anyway?
12:51 < fenn> pregnant women in india get by on what, $1k/yr? less?
12:52 < kanzure> right... live hosts are pretty cheap. but it's much more complicated.
12:52 < kanzure> and then you have to make sure they don't drink alcohol or whatever
12:52 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined ##hplusroadmap
12:53 < kanzure> "morbid developments, inc."
12:53 < fenn> was this in Kill Bill?
12:53 < fenn> or did the baby die
12:53 < kanzure> never watched
12:54 < kanzure> what's interesting is that they didn't find a suroggacy option in time for this brain dead patient
12:54 < kanzure> (they probably didn't think of it, or have the paperwork for it)
12:54 < eudoxia> finding a surrogate probably takes time
12:54 < kanzure> i hope not, that would be the worst
12:54 < kanzure> surely there's a company in india that has a list of prospects
12:55 < fenn> The Bride awakens from her four-year coma and is horrified to find she is no longer pregnant. A hospital worker, Buck, has been raping her while she was comatose. She kills him, takes his truck, and teaches herself to walk again. Resolving to kill Bill and all four members of the Deadly Viper Assassination Squad, she picks her first target: O-Ren Ishii
12:55 < kanzure> why would being no longer pregnant be horrifying?
12:56 < kanzure> didn't you expect to eventually wake up one day not preganant?
12:56 < kanzure> *pregnant
12:56 < eudoxia> well because presumably her baby had been taken away and she didn't know where it was
12:56 < kanzure> that happens in any pregnany
12:56 < kanzure> *pregnancy
12:56 < fenn> seeing how the baby is from the guy who shot her and caused the coma, i guess they're even?
12:56 < eudoxia> i wonder of comatose people can give birth with some kind of chemical assistance or a c-section is necessary
12:57 < kanzure> especially in cesarean sections, you wake up and not pregnant
12:57 < fenn> this plot is confusing
12:57 < kanzure> unless there was a complication
12:57 < kanzure> and then you're still pregnant
12:57 < kanzure> "unfortunately the procedure was not successful, enjoy your scar care"
12:59 < fenn> kanzure can you transplant a baby though? i don't think they know how to do that, and who would volunteer for such a thing
12:59 < fenn> re: "didn't find a suroggacy option in time"
12:59 < kanzure> well, i didn't know how pregnant the patient was
13:00 < eudoxia> instead of transplanting the baby maybe transplant the whole uterus
13:00 < eudoxia> and put it next to a surrogate's real uterus
13:00 < kragen> but the 20:07 < fenn> what i want is a e-ink dynabook loaded with a smalltalk-80 OS and a solar panel on the back
13:00 < fenn> could a man carry a transplanted uterus?
13:00 < kragen> oops
13:00 < fenn> i mean they would have to cut it out anyway
13:01 < eudoxia> would probably need to inject the proper hormones for a while
13:01 < fenn> and immune suppressants etc
13:01 < fenn> transplanted organs is no joke
13:01 < kragen> what I meant to say was that that sounded an awful lot like my desire for a keypress-energy-harvesting dynabook
13:01 < fenn> heh gives "dynabook" a new meaning
13:01 -!- weles [~mariusz@wsip-174-78-132-9.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
13:02 < kragen> since presumably the solar panel and e-ink are there to make you autonomous from battery chargers?
13:02 < fenn> right
13:02 < kanzure> unfortunately that would give me an unfair advantage, kragen
13:02 < kragen> you already have an unfair advantage
13:02 < fenn> type faster! his hashing power is too great!
13:02 < kanzure> whiteywhiteness
13:02 < kanzure> this place is so racist these days
13:02 < kragen> no, I'm not prejudiced against AIs
13:03 < kragen> although I guess I am sort of prejudiced toward humans, since I figure they almost all have an inborn instinct not to kill me
13:03 < fenn> all you slackers hate grayfaces for no good reason
13:03 < kragen> but you haven't tried to kill me either as far as I know, so it's all good
13:03 < kanzure> grayface? http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2010/346/d/3/ojiisan_no_gray_face_sama_by_eronzki999-d34m8vr.jpg
13:03 < kragen> .g curse of grayface
13:03 < fenn> .wik grayface
13:03 < yoleaux> http://telp.org/mm6/tavern/anyboard/posts/48029.html
13:03 < yoleaux> "Discordianism is a religion and subsequent philosophy based on the veneration or worship of the Roman Discordia, equivalent of Eris, the Greek goddess of chaos, or archetypes or ideals associated with her." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discordianism
13:03 < fenn> bah
13:04 < fenn> "anyone who has forsaken the pursuit of Slack. Most Greyface are considered tolerable by the seekers of Slack because their disregard for it leaves more of it available."
13:05 < fenn> .wik dudeism
13:05 < yoleaux> "Dudeism is a philosophy and lifestyle inspired by the protagonist of the Coen Brothers' 1998 film The Big Lebowski." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dudeism
13:05 < kragen> this section bending machine is potentially like the macroscopic metal equivalent of a ribosome: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=067u69Q2quc
13:06 < kanzure> "tolerable ... because their disregard for it leaves more of it available." hm
13:06 < kragen> I think it would probably be more versatile if you applied it to much smaller-diameter polycarbonate tubing underwater though
13:06 < fenn> apparently Slack is an undervalued commodity
13:06 < kragen> neutral-buoyancy
13:07 < kanzure> i think surrogacy pregnancy is one of the best inventions of the past hundred years
13:07 < kanzure> and very few appreciate it
13:07 < kanzure> not that appreciation is required
13:07 < fenn> s/appreciate/utilize/
13:07 < kanzure> oh right
13:07 < kanzure> okay then
13:07 < fenn> the phrase you're searching for is "white guilt"
13:08 < kanzure> although, i think there are still some requirements for insane hormone regiments prior to starting the surrogacy
13:08 < kanzure> in both people
13:08 < kanzure> so this is possibly why this option is overlooked
13:08 < kragen> yeah, the answer to "fenn> could a man carry a transplanted uterus?" probably depends on what you maen by "man"
13:08 < fenn> egg donation is pretty rough whether you're going to use it or not
13:09 < kanzure> oh right, yes, there's far more egg donors and egg storing people than people using surrogacy
13:09 < fenn> kragen: someone born without a uterus
13:09 < kragen> I'm not sure you're still a "man" once your hips are wider than they would have been if you were a nulliparous woman
13:09 < kanzure> what
13:09 < kragen> and you get massive breasts
13:09 < fenn> what do hips have to do with anything
13:09 < kanzure> uh...
13:09 < kanzure> wtf?
13:09 < kragen> which are things that pregnancy hormones will do to you
13:10 < kanzure> so what?
13:10 < fenn> unless you're like 13 your hips have finished growing (and i wouldn't call a 13 year old a man, sorry jews)
13:10 < kragen> nope, pregnant women's hips grow
13:10 < kanzure> you are demonstrating a surprising lack of forethought about whether or not hips change your biological capacity to manufacture a human
13:10 < kanzure> hips are not a component in this estimation because of widely-known technology that help whether or not you have hip bones
13:10 < kragen> that's how you can tell nulliparous female skeletons from parous female skeletons in archeological digs
13:11 < kanzure> that doesn't matter
13:11 < fenn> kragen: i thought it was due to stretching of the ligaments that hold the sacroiliac joint together
13:11 < kanzure> your definition of "man" requiring something about hips is ridiculous
13:11 < kanzure> and shows a surprising lack of thought about this topic
13:12 < kragen> you would be surprised how much time I've spent talking to trans people about the social construction of gender
13:12 < kanzure> yes, social constructions are totally going to let you carry a baby
13:12 < fenn> i'm unclear on the exact mechanisms involved in pregnancy-related hormones and what organs they come from
13:12 < kragen> fenn: they are relevant to the answer to your question; it depends on what you mean by "man".  certainly someone who goes through the usual pregnancy hormonal regime will have a lot of secondary sexual attributes that will make people stop identifying them as a "man"
13:12 < kanzure> technology is how you carry a fetus, whether biological or not
13:12 < kragen> you can inject them
13:12 < fenn> presumably if you're transplanting a uterus you're also transplanting the ovaries
13:12 < kanzure> nothing about society's thoughts about gender or whatever. that's horsecrap.
13:12 < kragen> maybe, who knows
13:13 < kragen> I'm pretty sure you can transplant a uterus into someone who was born without one if you can transplant it into someone who was born with a different one
13:13 < kanzure> secondary sexual characteristics were never a good idea and it is wrong to propose it again
13:13 < fenn> kragen: by the time you're an adult there are a lot of physical changes (larynx, bone structure) that aren't reversed by addition of estrogen
13:13 < kanzure> yes i'm sure there's many biologically female no-weirdo-chromosome abnormality people that simply don't have a uterus
13:14 < kragen> fenn: yes, I'm well aware :)
13:14 < kanzure> it doesn't seem like you are
13:14 < fenn> the point is simply adding estrogen doesn't make the world say "hey that's a woman"
13:14 < kanzure> that sort of awareness would seem to help people not make the ridiculous statements you have been making
13:14 < kragen> heh
13:14 < fenn> whether people would like it to be that way or not
13:15 < kragen> I'm just saying that words like "man" stop having a universally agreed definition once you start mixing biological gender characteristics around
13:15 < kanzure> oh brother
13:15 < juri_> ah, transhumanists being retarded about gender. this is why we can't have nice things.
13:15 < kragen> so it's helpful to clarify which definition you want to use
13:15 < kanzure> yes, i'm being retarded about gender because i am pointing out that kragen's hip definition of "man" is bullshit? fuck off
13:16 < fenn> well androgen insensitivity syndrome (XY chromosome) is certainly interesting
13:16 < kragen> I don't think I proposed any definitions of "man".
13:16 < kanzure> what
13:16 < juri_> i was more speaking of kragen.
13:16 < kanzure> that's even more funny
13:16 < kragen> I just pointed out that people's definitions of the word vary in ways that become a lot more apparent when experiments like this come up.
13:16 < kanzure> i really don't know how to explain kragen's statements today
13:16 < kanzure> because i had previously thought that he had more knowledge about this subject than i did
13:17 < kragen> it seems clear that I do :)
13:17 < fenn> kanzure: there is a lot of disinformation from both sides...
13:17 < eudoxia> i thought we were talking about sex, when did this become about gender
13:17 < kanzure> fenn: go on
13:17 < kanzure> eudoxia: sex is also an overloaded term though
13:17 < kanzure> eudoxia: and it turns out that there's no actual biological consistency
13:18 < kragen> I don't think it's particularly useful to argue about what is the correct definition of sex or gender.  I just think that people often use different definitions of them without noticing, and that leads to confusion.
13:18 < fenn> kanzure: many trans people want to shove feathers up their butt and be a rooster, and lots of nazi fundamentalists don't believe that non-standard humans exist
13:18 < kanzure> well, i mean, there's some biological consistancy, but it's not what you think
13:18 < kragen> and of course like all categories they are kind of fuzzy when you try to map the real world onto them.
13:18 < fenn> it turns out that "i think i am a man/woman" is a tiny part of the brain that can get out of sync with the rest of the body
13:19 < kanzure> that's something else
13:19 < fenn> and it's easier to change the body to match the body image than the other way around
13:19 < kanzure> most people that bring up /that/ subject are not talking about stuff like "i have examined the chromosomal evidence and i have determined that ...."
13:19 < fenn> (possible vs not possible)
13:19 < fenn> chromosomes are only part of it
13:19 < fenn> it's developmental
13:20 < kragen> I'm just saying that, assuming you get uterus transplantation working well enough to allow someone to carry a fetus to term in a transplatned uterus, you can almost certainly get it to work in someone who's biologically male beforehand...
13:20 < kragen> (in everybody's opinion)
13:20 < kanzure> what
13:20 < kanzure> has that been demonstrated in male dogs?
13:20 < kanzure> or male mice?
13:20 < kragen> ...but the likely result will be that people will start to disagree about whether that person is male afterwards, because they'll have a feminine hip-to-waist ratio and enlarged breasts.
13:21 < kragen> And that affects people's opinions.
13:21 < kragen> dogs and mice don't have those particular secondary sexual characteristics.
13:21 < kanzure> okay, stop caring about other people's opinions, geeze
13:21 < kanzure> i don't care about the secondary sexual characteristics
13:21 < fenn> there are plenty of men with large hips and breasts and society has no problem recognizing them as "man"
13:21 < kragen> has someone transplanted uteri in dogs and mice?
13:21 < kanzure> no that's not what i am asking
13:21 < kanzure> argh
13:21 < eudoxia> but once you're done with surrogacy can't you just get it excised and shoot up testosterone until you're back to normal?
13:22 < juri_> the size of the hips is set in stone. that's bone, not soft material.
13:22 < kragen> eudoxia: the breasts probably, the hips probably not? at least with current technology
13:22 < kanzure> i am asking whether or not it has been demonstrated that uterus transplantation is the only requirement, for all members of a species
13:22 < kanzure> aka to backup your statement
13:22 < kanzure> about "in everybody's opinion". it sounds pretty wild to me.
13:23 < kragen> no, I'm saying that to get the pregnancy to work, you're going to have to use the usual pregnancy hormones
13:23 < kragen> whether you generate them in ovaries or inject them with a needle is somewhat immaterial to that point
13:23 < kanzure> argh
13:23 < kanzure> you are impossible to have a conversation with
13:24 < kragen> I don't think anything in particular has been demonstrated experimentally about uterus transplantation
13:24 < kanzure> so in conclusion, you were lying when you said "assuming you get uterus transplantation working well enough to allow someone to carry a fetus to term in a transplatned uterus, you can almost certainly get it to work in someone who's biologically male"
13:24 < kragen> that conclusion is unfounded and false
13:24 < fenn> the sacroiliac stretch is permanent, according to my mom (she blames me for her back problems in an odd roundabout way)
13:24 < kragen> aye
13:25 < kanzure> okay, so in conclusion then you have no evidence for this ?
13:25 < fenn> OTOH people don't usually have surgery to correct it
13:25 < eudoxia> that can probably be surgically corrected
13:25 < fenn> is there a doctor in the house
13:26 < kragen> that's right — I am predicting entirely from theory, not from any actual uterus transplantation attempts.  I thought that would be obvious from the place where I explicitly stated the precondition: "assuming you get uterus transplantation working well enough to allow someone to carry a fetus to term"
13:26 < fenn> there has been precisely one successul uterus transplant and subsequent pregnancy
13:26 < kanzure> "assuming something works, then it works" is not a useful statement to make
13:27 < juri_> aka, pulling from ass.
13:27 < kragen> fenn: I didn't know that! where can I find out more?
13:27 < fenn> .title http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-29516910
13:27 < yoleaux> BBC News - Womb transplant couple 'had no doubt' of success
13:27 < kanzure> maybe they should have had a little doubt -_-
13:27 < kanzure> doctors should be sued for malpractice on that issue alone
13:27 < fenn> it looks ike a baby to me
13:28 < eudoxia> IIRC the first person to get a sex change, in the Weimar republic, died from an infection after a uterus transplant
13:28 < kanzure> yes a "sex change"
13:28 < kanzure> you know they are lying when they call it a sex change right
13:28 < fenn> .title http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-29485996
13:28 < yoleaux> BBC News - First womb-transplant baby born
13:28 < eudoxia> oh kanz i just used the first term that came to mind
13:28 < kanzure> kk
13:29 < kragen> then I can simplify that to "since uterus transplantation works well enough to allow someone to carry a fetus to term in a transplanted uterus, you can almost certainly get it to work in someone who's biologically male"
13:29 < kanzure> sounds like immunosuppression issues anyway, not very surprising
13:29 < fenn> "Our success is based on more than 10 years of intensive animal research and surgical training by our team"
13:31 < fenn> the doctor Mats Brannstrom has done a lot of work on biochemical factors that affect ovulation
13:31 < kragen> but in this case they used IVF, no?
13:32 < fenn> yes, because the mother still had ovaries
13:32 < fenn> also the donor ovaries were probably not viable (60 years old)
13:32 < kragen> yeah
13:32 < fenn> s/mother/host/
13:34 < fenn> .title http://humupd.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2009/11/07/humupd.dmp049.full
13:34 < yoleaux> Experimental uterus transplantation
13:36 < kragen> so you presumably don't need the uterus-haver to ovulate in order to carry a pregnancy to term.  I mean, that's true with surrogate mothers, too.
13:36 < fenn> right
13:36 < fenn> demonstrably so
13:37 < kragen> I'm just saying "presumably" because we haven't demonstrated it yet, since in this case the uterus-haver did in fact ovulate, which does have hormonal effects
13:38 < kragen> but it seems almost certain
13:39 < fenn> er, but pregnancy inhibits ovulation
13:39 < kragen> yes
13:39 < kragen> and not ovulating, normally, inhibits pregnancy
13:46 < kragen> I mean if you aren't ovulating, normally you aren't menstruating either, and I don't think it's just that you aren't expelling an endometrium, but that you aren't building one up in the first place, which could maybe cause trouble with bringing a pregnancy to term
13:46 < kragen> without dying anyway
13:47 < fenn> why "without dying"
13:47 < kragen> zygotes are happy to implant pretty much anywhere
13:48 < kragen> and then they start hungrily drilling into your body for precious nutrient-rich blood
13:48 < fenn> are you saying not having an endometrium will cause eclampsia?
13:48 < kragen> the endometrium helps keep that down
13:49 < kragen> I don't know if eclampsia specifically, but it seems like it could be similar to an ectopic pregnancy in a lot of ways
13:49 < fenn> i say feed them what they want!
13:50 < fenn> the human uterine transplants that failed seem to have done so because of mechanical issues (veins folding and becoming blocked)
13:50 < fenn> "acute vascular occlusion appeared to be due to inadequate uterine structure support, which led to probable tension, torsion, or kinking of connected vascular grafts"
13:51 < fenn> "Exogenous cyclic estrogen/gestagen induced withdrawal bleedings. It is unclear why hormonal treatment was needed since the recipient had preserved ovaries."
13:51 < nmz787_i> 'my body, my baby' -Arnold portaying some doctor in a movie
13:51 < fenn> "bleedings" is a technical term apparently
13:52 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
13:55 < fenn> wow so the transplanted uterus had spun 360 degrees because they didn't reattach the pelvic ligaments holding it in place
13:55 < kragen> that's crazy
13:55 < kragen> you would think your vagina would hold it in place
13:55 < kragen> I mean couldn't that cause vaginal ischemic damage?
13:56 < fenn> yes, and that's why it failed (clotting damage to the uterus too)
13:56 < fenn> its like twisting a bread bag
13:56 < kragen> oh, that wasn't the successful case
13:56 < kragen> did she survive?
13:56 < fenn> they're talking about previous attempts that failed in the paper
13:56 < fenn> yes
13:59 < kragen> that's good
14:00 < kragen> it seems like in fact your pelvis does continue to expand well after 13 years old, at least if you're female: http://www.degruyter.com/dg/viewarticle/j$002fijamh.2013.25.issue-2$002fijamh-2013-0021$002fijamh-2013-0021.xml;jsessionid=BEB2CDC45915E005413D842AEDC776CD
14:01 < fenn> Since necrosis and thrombosis are signs of full rejection, this could be the reason for the demise of the organ rather than ‘torsion and kinking of the vessels secondary to inadequate structural support’, as suggested.
14:01 < kragen> but maybe I was wrong about pregnancy-induced expansion, and it's just a matter of looser sacroiliac joints, like you said
14:01 < kragen> of the bone, I mean
14:02 < fenn> .title
14:02 < yoleaux> Smaller pelvic size in pregnant adolescents contributes to lower birth weight : International Journal of Adolescent Medicine and Health
14:02 < kragen> (I'm assuming that the 125 primiparous adolescents in their study were mostly over 13!)
14:03 < fenn> while we're on the topic i never found any evidence supporting bkero's assertion that italian women have wider hips
14:03 < fenn> but there wasn't any evidence at all
14:03 < kragen> it would be surprising if it were true
14:03 < fenn> no it wouldn't
14:03 < fenn> but i have no idea where to find this information
14:03 < fenn> the WHO does extensive surveys on "waist to hip ratio" but no absolute measurements
14:03 < kragen> it would surprise me because humans are under very strong selective pressure to have wide hips
14:04 < kragen> so you would think that mutations that allow us to have wider hips would spread very rapidly
14:04 < kragen> rather than being confined to one geographic region
14:04 < fenn> the "brain volume shrinking over past 10k years" would seem to disagree with that statement
14:05 < fenn> http://discovermagazine.com/2010/sep/25-modern-humans-smart-why-brain-shrinking
14:06 < kragen> yeah. I'm wrong. this also shows it: https://books.google.com.ar/books?id=NHdyAgAAQBAJ&pg=PA158&lpg=PA158&dq=racial+pelvimetry&source=bl&ots=gLNFUiIbX4&sig=BqKSZRTecUzjFmKtj5zP-iXVdXo&hl=es-419&sa=X&ei=oE-TVO_0Dsn1oASMioCACQ&ved=0CDwQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=racial%20pelvimetry&f=false
14:07 < fenn> "A handful of studies on immunosuppression to prevent rejection after UTx have been published. However, no treatment protocol, successful in terms of long-term survival and functionality of the graft, has been presented. It is obvious that detailed studies addressing this issue and with a high success rates are needed before another human UTx attempt."
14:07 < kragen> something like 20% difference by "race"
14:07 < fenn> and in concluding remarks, i would like to thank the pope, jesus, my family, and the NIH
14:08 < fenn> ah pelvimetry was the magic keyword i was missing
14:08 < kragen> although this is of course the early-20th-century level of rigor that lumps all of Africa together with Australia as one "race"
14:09 < fenn> "Research indicates that pelvimetry is not a useful diagnostic tool for Cephalo-pelvic disproportion"
14:09 < kragen> also this book is clearly fascist propaganda
14:10 < fenn> clearly
14:10 < kanzure> how do those UN studies figure out which things to measure anyway. do they just look at a list of possible things to measure, and decide to randomly sample only 1% of the measurements?
14:10 < fenn> waist hip ratio was closely correlated with noncommunicable disease
14:10 < kragen> kanzure: through social network links
14:10 < kanzure> social network is an awful way to figure that out though
14:10 < kanzure> that's not the origin of thoroughness
14:10 < fenn> through social trust metrics and complexity theory
14:11 < kanzure> in my case i can just make fenn do all of my thinking, of course
14:11 < fenn> doesn't work when i'm trolling
14:11 < kanzure> so you mean chimpanzees aren't really my best friends?
14:12 < fenn> they are until they grow up and become interested in other things, like smearing poop and biting people
14:12 < fenn> that came out wrong
14:12 < fenn> "they are until they grow up and become interested in other things"
14:13 < kanzure> that's racist
14:13 < fenn> it's a fact of life, man
14:13 < kanzure> heh
14:13 < kanzure> hmm.
14:14 < kanzure> if you are going to have a huge organization try to take measurements of the entire human population and their lives, you should really think carefully about the most important things to occupy your time on each measuring session
14:14 < kanzure> i'm sure there are many things that are super important to measure that are non-bvious
14:14 < kanzure> *non-obvious
14:14 < fenn> kragen i'd like to see early 20th century data if it were collected by Weston Price
14:16 < fenn> there was a lot of skepticism around pasteurization around then and i'd expect them to have done comparative measurements of this sort
14:19 < fenn> also mumble mumble vitamin k2 mk4 bone morphogenetic protein matrix Gla mumblr
14:20 < fenn> in other words, ethnographic bone structure differences may very well be due to cultural dietary differences
14:24 < kragen> fenn: why Weston Price?
14:24 -!- pete4242 [~smuxi@boole.london.hackspace.org.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:24 < kragen> hmm, you have a good point about dietary differences
14:24 < kragen> in particular they might be due to hunger
14:28 < fenn> because he surveyed exactly this sort of thing, and it was before the modern industrialized diets spread to every corner of the world
14:28 < fenn> also i trust his data to be accurate and not biased by some wacko racist ideology
14:29 < fenn> i'm not automatically assuming that our modern diet is better than early 1900's ethnic diets
14:30 < fenn> anyway there are two confounded variables here; diet and genetics
14:31 < fenn> they are both important and worth studying
14:31 < nmz787_i> what I need is to clone a uterus for myself... cause why 'steal' it when I can replicate?
14:32 < fenn> yo dawg i herd u like cloning
14:32 < nmz787_i> (in my situation I wouldn't want the donor without her uterus)
14:32 < nmz787_i> in case my shiznit doesn't work right
14:33 < fenn> uh, what?
14:33 < fenn> one uterus isn't enough for you?
14:33 < nmz787_i> well say I got her uterus transplanted into me, but then it didn't work out for producing babizz
14:34 < nmz787_i> we'd be screwed unless we got some third-party uterus
14:35 < fenn> yes a 3D printed uterus would be better for everyone involved
14:35 < fenn> you heard it here in ##hplusroadmap
14:37 < fenn> if you grew your clone (baby) inside your clone (uterus) it would cut down on a lot of potential autoimmune problems, but maybe introduce other risks we don't know about (cancer? teratoma? mosaic chimerism?)
14:37 < nmz787_i> I wonder if grass-fed cows are nutritionally more-fit than the average western-diet person
14:37 < fenn> yes
14:37 < nmz787_i> load a cow up with anti-rejection and a new uterus
14:37 < nmz787_i> I'd be ok with my kid being born from a cow
14:38 < fenn> it would probably work better with a pig
14:39 < nmz787_i> hmm, I know my farmer buddy gives his pigs some feed mix, while the cows just get hay
14:39 < nmz787_i> I guess I like that hay is less processed
14:40 < fenn> because pigs dont eat grass
14:40 < fenn> they don't have the stomach for it (ha.)
14:40 < nmz787_i> yeah, I guess they need more land to root around in
14:41 < nmz787_i> my point wasn't that they didn't eat grass, but that I trust the quality of grass more than bagged feed
14:41 < fenn> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methanogenesis#In_ruminants
14:41 < eudoxia> "methanogenesis" is that farting
14:42 < fenn> 250 liters per day, wow
14:42 < kragen> nmz787_i: yes, probably 3-D printing a uterus for yourself would be healthier than implanting one that needs immunosuppression
14:42 < nmz787_i> my farmer says 'my cows dont fart'
14:42 < fenn> .wik envirocow
14:42 < yoleaux> fenn: Sorry, I couldn't find article.
14:43 < fenn> .wik enviropig
14:43 < yoleaux> "Enviropig is the trademark for a genetically modified line of Yorkshire pigs, with the capability to digest plant phosphorus more efficiently than conventional unmodified pigs, that was developed at the University of Guelph." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enviropig
14:43 < kragen> but fenn is probably right about cancer
14:43 < kragen> and other unknown risks
14:43 < kragen> but on the other hand immunosuppression is a pretty big health problem!
14:43 < kragen> eudoxia: mostly it's belching
14:44 < nmz787_i> i'm fine with a random assortment of genes (although a bit of screening to eliminate any know super-bad genes would be nice).... just means I need a bigger data set to ensure good probability of success
14:44 < fenn> a .. random assortment of genes?
14:44 < fenn> would you find them on the sidewalk
14:44 < fenn> how do you get a random gene
14:46 < fenn> also some people would have ethical problems with "i just need a bigger set of clones to ensure success"
14:46 < fenn> strangely, these same people have no issues with IVF
14:46 < fenn> go figure
14:47 < fenn> "The Mootral feed additive is derived from proprietary extraction techniques created by Neem Biotech applied to an active extract of garlic, called Allicin. Research at the University of Aberystwyth, Wales (amongst many others) has demonstrated up to 94% reductions in methane production."
14:48 < fenn> i wonder how it affects the cow's growth; most of their energy intake is due to short chain hydrocarbon production
14:49 < fenn> wow
14:49 < fenn> Electromethanogenesis is a form of electrofuel production where methane is produced by direct biological conversion from electrical current and carbon dioxide.[1][2][3] The reduction process is carried out in a microbial electrolysis cell. An 2009 article by Cheng and Logan reports that a current capture efficiency of 96% can be achieved using a 1.0 V current.
14:50 < fenn> paperbot: http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/es803531g
14:51 < fenn> paperbot:  http://dx.doi.org/10.1021%2Fes803531g
14:51 < fenn> derp
14:51 < kragen> this is the part of the pelvis that I thought grew during pregnancy; it turns out that it's not made of bone: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pubic_symphysis
14:52 < nmz787_i> i remember that structure, cause it sounds like synthesis
14:52 < kragen> but it also appears that the total increase is 2–3 mm and isn't permanent
14:52 < nmz787_i> fenn: random assortment meaning what happens with normal sex
14:53 < kragen> fenn: electromethogenesis sounds awesome
14:53 < kragen> an
14:54 < fenn> electromethogenesis is a hardcore metal gabba fusion band
14:54 < kragen> .wik gabber metal
14:54 < yoleaux> "The Gabber Mixes is a 12" remix EP by American heavy metal band Fear Factory, released in 1997 through Mokum Records. The track "T-1000" is from Remanufacture, which is a remix of HK (Hunter-Killer) from Demanufacture." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gabber_Mixes
14:55 < eudoxia> is paperbot deadders again
14:55 < fenn> oh i've actually heard of Fear Factory
14:55 < kragen> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-RdsIst6p4
14:56 < fenn> full album
14:56 < kragen> do you suppose the band uploaded it themselves?
14:56 < kragen> does anybody do electroetching to shape metal, the way people do EDM?
14:57 < fenn> yes it's called ECM electrochemical machining
14:58 < kragen> oh awesome! thanks!
14:58 < fenn> you can use a metal electrode without dissolving because the electrolyte is washed out between the tool electrode and part
14:58 < fenn> unlike EDM which really wants a graphite electrode
14:59 < kragen> well, you would think that you could actually deposit metal on the tool electrode
14:59 < fenn> er, i guess "without buildup" describes the situation better
14:59 < kragen> but if you do that too much I guess you end up with dendrites
14:59 < kragen> yeah
14:59 < fenn> .wik electrochemical machining
14:59 < yoleaux> "Electrochemical machining (ECM) is a method of removing metal by an electrochemical process. It is normally used for mass production and is used for working extremely hard materials or materials that are difficult to machine using conventional methods. Its use is limited to electrically conductive materials." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrochemical_machining
15:00 < kragen> yeah, I'm reading that page already :)
15:00 < kragen> "mirror surface finishes" *drool*
15:00 < fenn> according to my informant there's a lot of "black magic" implicit know-how held by various (ex-) soviet technicians
15:01 < fenn> in both ECM and EDM
15:01 < kragen> I wonder what they need and how to recruit them
15:01 -!- shubhamgoyal [~shubhamgo@118.189.209.93] has joined ##hplusroadmap
15:01 -!- Viper168__ [~Viper@node10.18.251.72.1dial.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap
15:01 < kragen> my ex-brother-in-law spent a lot of years doing EDM.  he's now machining at boeing but I don't know what process
15:02 < kanzure> is there a reverse autoimmune disease where the immune system you're growing in is immuno-compatible but weak and therefore rejection happens?
15:03 -!- shubhamg_ [~shubhamgo@118.189.209.93] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
15:03 < kanzure> by weak i mean not many antibodies
15:03 < fenn> kanzure fetuses don't have immune systems
15:03 < fenn> not real ones anyway
15:03 < kragen> yes; that's the reason it took a long time to do intestinal transplants
15:03 -!- Viper168_ [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
15:03 < kragen> the intestines kept rejecting the host
15:03 < kanzure> i don't mean regular ol' immune rejection
15:04 < fenn> please restate the question
15:05 < kanzure> if immune rejection was only a matter of antibody equivalency then immune rejection seems like it would have been solved ages ago
15:05 < kanzure> so i doubt it is
15:05 < kragen> does anybody do wire ECM?
15:05 < fenn> immune rejection is when the host has antibodies against antigens in the graft
15:06 < fenn> autoimmune is when the body has antibodies against antigens in the body
15:06 < fenn> histocompatibility is when the host has no antibodies against antigens in the graft
15:06 < fenn> there is no "antibody equivalency" afaik
15:06 < kanzure> right, okay
15:07 < fenn> you can end up with situations like you described if you transplant bone marrow into someone who hasn't had their bone marrow irradiated or chemo'd to death
15:08 < kanzure> oh, immune rejection prevention is only based on immunity compromisation?
15:08 < kanzure> or are we past that yet
15:08 < fenn> ideally you'd pick histocompatible transplants, but if that's not possible then you just suppress the immune system (but not too much or they die from fungal/yeast infections)
15:09 < fenn> total obliteration is reserved for leukemia
15:09 < fenn> in that case they really need to be histocompatible or the entire body is rejected
15:09 < kanzure> too bad that, even if you had a method of making two people immune compatible prior to any necessay operations, that you shouldn't perform that operation on everyone in your population because that would probably reduce overall immunity of your population (maybe)
15:10 < kragen> fungal infections are amazing
15:11 < fenn> amazingly horrific
15:11 < kanzure> actually, why isn't "inject very small quantities of the other person's blood" a way to ensure immuno-compatibility?
15:11 < kanzure> and do it both ways
15:11 < kragen> yes, amazingly horrific
15:11 < kanzure> maybe that only works with bone marrow, now that i think about it
15:11 < fenn> .title http://thechive.com/2009/12/18/the-human-tree-man-warning-graphic-13-photos/
15:11 < yoleaux> The Human Tree man *Warning Graphic* (13 photos) : theCHIVE
15:11 < kragen> kanzure: I think that's a way to decrease immunocompatibility, not increase it
15:11 < kanzure> heh
15:11 < kanzure> so i still get points for that, right?
15:12 < kragen> fenn: to be fair that's viral, not fungal
15:12 < kanzure> fenn has been watching too much tv
15:12 < kanzure> the idiots he lives with haven't figured out that they can't operate him like this
15:13 < kanzure> er, which is why he thinks of tree man, i think
15:13 < fenn> my bad i remembered it wrong, that is a genetic condition not fungal infection
15:13 < kanzure> because tree man was on tv a bunch
15:14 < kragen> fenn: it's generic in the sense that the virus contains DNA?
15:14 < kragen> genetic
15:15 < fenn> "The cause of the condition is an inactivating HP mutation in either the EVER1 or EVER2 genes, which are located adjacent to one another on chromosome 17." ... "It is characterized by abnormal susceptibility to human papillomaviruses (HPVs) of the skin. The resulting uncontrolled HPV infections result in the growth of scaly macules and papules, particularly on the hands and feet."
15:15 < kragen> oh, I see
15:15 < kanzure> .title https://community.mars-one.com/projects/cyano-knights1
15:15 < yoleaux> #CyanoKnights - Generating O2 out of CO2 - Projects - Mars One Community Platform
15:16  * fenn warily clicks
15:17 < fenn> this hasn't been done yet?
15:17 < kanzure> :/
15:17 < nmz787_i> I came up with what I think would be a good diybio hackathon topic: blastbot... an IRC bot you could query with easy commands like [blastbot: similarity(human photoreceptors, Infrared sensing in snakes)]
15:17 < fenn> wtf has nasa been doing all these years
15:17 -!- Viper168__ [~Viper@node10.18.251.72.1dial.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
15:17 < kanzure> iirc this is the most thorough overview so far (and it's not very thorough) http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/Pioneer%20Organisms%20Nominated%20for%20Terraforming.htm
15:18 < nmz787_i> unfortunately I couldn't make that last message more intelligent as .wik https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infrared_sensing_in_snakes doesn't seem to list a scientific name
15:19 < nmz787_i> (i was wondering a few nights ago if our eyes were merely being 'filtered' of the other EM frequencies... rather than lacking sensitivity (filtered on the protein level would be the same as lacking sensitivity, but I wonder if this filtration was the result of minor tweaks or vast differences)
15:20 < nmz787_i> I know the snake organ is an ion channel, rather than a rhodopsin or something
15:20 < nmz787_i> so I guess they'd be different, but with blastbot we'd need not guess!
15:20 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r167-56-3-190.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
15:22 < nmz787_i> these logos are quite similar IMO http://www.fei.com/images/shell/logo.png     http://www.indec-ecm.com/i/logo_indec.png
15:22 < nmz787_i> (that ECM manufacturer and a FIB/SEM manufacturer)
15:23 < nmz787_i> "In 1928, the technological ECM scheme known at this time was essentially improved by the Russian engineers V.N.Gusev and L.Rozhkov, due to compulsory intensive flushing of electrolyte fluid through interelectrode space and the EDM electrode moving (feeding) with velocity equal to velocity of anode dissolution. It allowed to increase current density and to reduce working interelectrode gaps and, accordingly, to raise target
15:23 < nmz787_i> technological indicators of the ECM (accuracy, quality of the surface and productivity)."
15:23 < nmz787_i> from http://www.indec-ecm.com/en/technologists/brief_history/
15:24 < fenn> this fear factory is interesting but i am unable to read and listen to it at the same time
15:25 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap
15:25 < kanzure> we should put a dna synthesizer (and other components) on a mars lander mission
15:25 < kanzure> and a supply of cells to transform
15:25 < kanzure> so that you don't need multiple missions to transmit new biological plans
15:26 < fenn> we should put a dna sequencer on a mars mission first
15:26 < kanzure> although the "simulated martian environment here on earth" plan for directed evolution will probably work just fine
15:26 < kanzure> why first ?
15:26 < fenn> to limit stupid objections from naysayers
15:27 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-121-223-157-226.lns2.bat.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap
15:28 < fenn> Clayborne is one of the first areologists and maintains a stalwart desire to see Mars preserved in the state it holds when humans arrive. Clayborne early on debates Saxifrage Russell over the proper role of humanity on Mars and though initially apolitical, this stance marks her as the original "Red," while Russell's hands-on terraforming reflects the antithesis of these views.
15:28 < fenn> Saxifrage means "stonebreaker" and is the name for an Alpine plant that grows between stones.
15:30 < fenn> one of Clayborne's more persuasive arguments was "we don't even know what is here yet, and you want to mess it all up before we have a chance to study mars and understand it. we'll never have this chance again"
15:32 < kanzure> that would be an okay argument for something like, "we should prepare a list of projects and experiments we absolutely must perform prior to really fucking up mars"
15:33 < kanzure> but not an okay argument for "since i don't know what things we should be doing while we have this opportunity, i should argue that everyone else should stop as well"
15:37 < kanzure> jrayhawk: have you considered making a more mobile display apparatus, e.g. 100 phone screens linked to some beagleboard behind some plywood
15:39 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r167-56-3-190.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap
15:39 < kragen> nmz787_i: that is cool about ECM.  it seems like current-based feed control would work well
15:42 < jrayhawk> i guess i have never priced those LCDs, but it seems like with $600 QHD screens and 6x MiniDP video controllers running around, hardware hacking is unlikely to make a lot of sense
15:44 < kanzure> oh right, video over network would probably not be appreciated
15:45 < jrayhawk> i haven't actually seen if xdmx still works
15:46 < kanzure> also, why isn't there a company that sells ridiculous over-the-top computing+display setups? is there really no market there
15:46 < kanzure> s/over-the-top/ridiculous
15:46 < jrayhawk> That's usually a consultancy sort of thing to do.
15:46 < jrayhawk> Ergotron, at least, does mounting hardware for it.
15:47 < jrayhawk> Proper video walls are suuuuuper-duper expensive.
15:47 < jrayhawk> http://www.planar.com/products/lcd-video-walls/
15:47 < kanzure> eh i mean "curved" walls that match what reasonable people expect workstations to look like
15:48 < kanzure> hmm http://www.ergotron.com/Products/MultiMonitorMounts/tabid/159/Default.aspx
15:49 < kanzure> this seems a little overly-specific actually... like this looks very rigid and they have only a handful of options ("would you like the 2, 3 or 4 monitor mount?")
15:50 < kanzure> i would expect something like this http://i2.ytimg.com/vi/N7unF2tIXDs/mqdefault.jpg
15:50 < kanzure> except uh, t-slot or some other structural component
15:50 < kanzure> with holes and mounts
15:51 < jrayhawk> Some of the wall mounts and desktop mounts can take a pretty big number of arms.
15:51 < jrayhawk> And the arms are 6DoF and have attachments for LCDs, trays, keyboards, etc.
15:51 < kanzure> this is the thing that seems ridiculous: http://www.cotytech.com/images/products/DM-GS616-1-900.jpg
15:51 < jrayhawk> er, rather, the arms have 6DoF attachments for LCDs, trays, keyboards, etc.
15:52 < jrayhawk> Yeah, those like about right.
15:52 < jrayhawk> huh, never seen these guys before
15:53 < jrayhawk> looks like equivalent functionality and pricing, though
15:56 < kanzure> a chain link fence seems like the right structure
15:56 < jrayhawk> that's a good idea
15:58 < jrayhawk> fiberglass and wood are a bit combustive, and thermoplastic is too expensive
15:59 < jrayhawk> chain link is a little flimsy, but if you can get supports in the way you want
15:59 < jrayhawk> hog paneling, i suppose, would be better
15:59 < kanzure> why is it called hog paneli-- oh http://www.herdsmanbrand.com/images/hog_panels1.jpg
16:00 < kanzure> this except curved and ergonomic http://www.allengateandpanel.com/public/phpthumb/phpThumb.php?src=/public/userfiles/images/sheep_goat%20%20panel.JPG&w=500
16:01 < jrayhawk> Hog paneling is easy enough to bend by (strong) hand but would probably be able to support a lot of 15-30lb monitors without deformation.
16:01 < kanzure> looks like "hog trap" is the operative keyword here
16:02 < kanzure> http://cdn.instructables.com/F4B/OUTV/GE056U92/F4BOUTVGE056U92.LARGE.jpg
16:02 < nmz787_i> http://www.cburch.com/logisim/retire-note.html
16:02 < kanzure> (i don't know what material that is, but pretend it's correct)
16:02 < kragen> I guess you wouldn't want to electrochemically machine chromium stainless steel, would you?  Or anyway you'd need to work really hard to reduce the resulting chromium ions.
16:03 < kanzure> iron balconies/escapes would also be the approximately right shape and materials
16:11 < kanzure> .title https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8769667
16:11 < yoleaux> Git client vulnerability announced | Hacker News
16:11 < kanzure> (related to .git/config case (in)sensitivity on osx/windows)
16:12 < jrayhawk> ahahaha
16:13 < jrayhawk> git is also super dumb about checking out tracked files on top of eachother.
16:13 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
16:13 < jrayhawk> case insensitivity was sortof a bad idea in general
16:14 < eudoxia> i'm just waiting for the flood of "shouldn't have written it in C" bots
16:14 < eudoxia> i mean, not that i *disagree*
16:14 -!- Kus12123 [~Kus121236@72.53.103.166] has joined ##hplusroadmap
16:14 < kanzure> hi Kus12123
16:15 < Kus12123> sup
16:15 < jrayhawk> somewhere there is a user depending on this functionality to version their own configs and hooks
16:16 < kanzure> god bless them, too
16:17 -!- Kus12123 [~Kus121236@72.53.103.166] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
16:18 < kragen> fenn: it seems like ECM ought to be potentially very efficient
16:19 < kragen> like, a couple of electron volts per atom of metal removed
16:19 < jrayhawk> re: wrought iron: lacks reconfigurability, but i suppose it'll look pretty
16:20 < jrayhawk> http://www.google.com/search?q=hebo+machines&tbm=vid speaking of which, these guys are cool
16:22 < fenn> kragen i think it is a few orders of magnitude less efficient than machining
16:24 < kragen> oh?
16:24 < kragen> because you tend to dissolve the entire negative form instead of just cutting it into chips?
16:26 < kragen> it seems like you ought to be able to dissolve almost arbitrarily small amounts of it if you're using wire ECM
16:26 < kragen> [does anybody do wire ECM?]
16:26 < fenn> i'm trying to find a graph of manfuacturing processes plotted on log scale of feature size vs energy per gram to manufacture
16:27 < kragen> apparently "WECM" is a thing
16:27 < fenn> of course it's a thing
16:27 < kragen> well, I'm not a machinist; I thought I might have proposed a process that wouldn't work at all in practice for some reason
16:28 < fenn> you still have to blow enough solvent through the gap to take away the ions
16:28 < fenn> so it's limited by viscosity
16:28 < kragen> hmm, interesting
16:28 < fenn> that the wire moves probably helps with that
16:28 < kragen> yes, I'm sure it does
16:28 < kragen> like when I proposed that you could make solid-state relays with magnetoresistive Wheastone bridges for steampunk solid-state computing
16:29 < kragen> not realizing that magnetoresistive materials, being ferromagnetic, act as very strong low-pass filters on your signal
16:30 < kragen> apparently WECM wasn't a thing until 20 years ago
16:32 < kragen> "ø20 μm tungsten wire as cathode"
16:33 < kragen> I guess your wire needs to not melt under the current, too
16:33 < fenn> http://krisdedecker.typepad.com/.a/6a00e0099229e8883301156f990cc1970c-700wi
16:33 < fenn> um, that is an image showing the above graph
16:34 < fenn> aw damn it's not the same graph
16:34 < fenn> that's process rate vs energy per gram
16:35 < fenn> heh Drill EDM is about the same as Oxidation
16:36 < fenn> tunsten is not the best conductor but it is quite strong
16:36 -!- yashgaroth [~ffffff@2606:6000:cb85:6a00:355e:fedf:80a9:3f9b] has joined ##hplusroadmap
16:37 < fenn> the constant flow of high pressure water would carry a lot of heat away
16:38 < fenn> .wa tensile strength of tungsten in psi
16:38 < kragen> tungsten also deals well with high temperatures
16:38 < yoleaux> convert tungsten: tensile yield strength to pounds-force per square inch: 109000 psi (pounds-force per square inch); Additional conversions: 750 MPa (megapascals); 0.75 GPa (gigapascals); 7.5×10⁸ Pa (pascals); 7400 atm (atmospheres) (unit officially deprecated); Comparison as tensile strength: ~(0.008 ~1/130) × theoretical tensile strength of a carbon nanotube (~100 GPa)
16:38 < kragen> I mean I would think that you would use ultrafine piano wire if you were just going for strength
16:38 < fenn> piano wire is what, high carbon steel?
16:39 < fenn> e
16:39 < kragen> yeah, but the drawing process makes it dramatically stronger than regular high-carbon steel
16:39 < fenn> "The tensile strength of one popular brand of piano wire is listed as 380 - 425 ksi (2620 - 2930 MPa)"
16:40 < ParahSailin> mars-one is spacex?
16:40 < fenn> they'll probably buy rockets from spacex, if they do anything
16:41 < fenn> cheapest source for interplanetary rockets :P
16:41 < fenn> also, only source for interplanetary rockets
16:41 < kragen> so looking at this graph I have two observations:
16:42 < kragen> 1. it's per kilogram of material, but I suspect that the amount of material you have to remove to get the shape you want is a bigger source of variance;
16:42 < kragen> 2. it doesn't seem to include ECM? or am I blind?
16:43 < fenn> what's this about "solid-state relays with magnetoresistive Wheastone bridges"
16:44 < fenn> it doesn't include ECM; i am thinking of some NASA report that is probably gone forever forever forever...
16:44 < kragen> oh, well, magnetoresistance is a slight change in the resistance of a ferromagnetic material, discovered sometime around 1860
16:44 < fenn> from my UT austin days
16:44 < kragen> under the influence of a magnetic field parallel to the current
16:45 < kragen> with a Wheatstone bridge you can arrange for a slight change in the resistance of one of its legs to produce a large change in current across the bridge in the middle
16:46 < fenn> .wik selsyn
16:46 < yoleaux> "A synchro is, in effect, a transformer whose primary-to-secondary coupling may be varied by physically changing the relative orientation of the two windings. Synchros are often used for measuring the angle of a rotating machine such as an antenna platform. In its general physical construction, it is much like an electric motor." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selsyn
16:46 < kragen> so you can use one magnetoresistive wire to control several magnetoresistive wires, and in a way that lets you build arbitrary logic gates, all solid-state and therefore I think very reliable, although I guess you might have some drift or thermal dependency
16:47 < kragen> but the reason I was excited about it was that I thought that it would be very fast compared to an electromechanical relay
16:47  * fenn mumble something about saturating transformer amplification
16:47 < kragen> while in fact I think it is very much not, although I haven't tried it
16:47 < kragen> yeah, Jeri did a nice video about that a while back; did yo usee it?
16:47 < fenn> no
16:48 < fenn> your magnetic field would either require lots of current or have a high inductance
16:48 < kragen> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7SkE5pERtA
16:48 < fenn> if high inductance it's either slow or high voltage
16:48 < kragen> right, but quite aside from that
16:48 < kragen> the magnetoresistive wires themselves are going to be hard to get any high-frequency signals through
16:50 < fenn> jrayhawk: all this effort just to make faux handmade goods
16:50 < kragen> I mean they have super high inductance
16:51 < kragen> even if the coils you use to apply the field to that wire have low inductance because they're like three turns or something
16:51 < fenn> presumably you could find something that has a higher magnetoresistive effect
16:51 < kragen> yes, and that's in fact how disk heads work
16:51 < kragen> modern ones
16:51 < fenn> i'm not sure if this solves the self inductance problem though
16:52 < jrayhawk> yes, status signaling and cortisol management are big markets
16:53 < fenn> GMR is a thin film coating of alternating ferromagnetic and nonmagnetic layers, so the ferromagnetic part would probably raise the inductance
16:53 < kragen> I think it would, yeah, but I have this impression that giant magnetoresistive materials are REALLY hard to make. maybe that's unfounded
16:53 < kragen> I mean GMR disk heads are really tiny
16:53 < kanzure> i must have lost context, what is status signaling about monitors
16:53 < kanzure> "i am not an idiot that puts 10000 tabs on one screen"?
16:53 < jrayhawk> wrought ironwork
16:53 < kanzure> oh
16:54 < fenn> kanzure: status signaling is people paying hundreds of thousands of dollars for a fence
16:54 < fenn> that is supposed to look handmade
16:54 < kragen> as far as I can tell, this magnetic logic video is entirely correct.  i'd forgotten she was using square ferrite though
16:54 < kragen> like core memory
16:54 < fenn> it is fun to watch wrought iron getting squished
16:55 < kanzure> .g site:youtube.com wrought iron squishing
16:55 < yoleaux> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3L9A_HvLolw
16:55 < fenn> .title
16:55 < yoleaux> Wrought Iron End Crushing Machine - YouTube
16:55 < kragen> .g site:youtube.com sludge press
16:55 < yoleaux> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wh6bb312fPg
16:56 < fenn> .g site:youtube.com hebo machine
16:56 < yoleaux> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qGHWZm0C-o
16:56 < fenn> .title
16:56 < yoleaux> Hebo Machines - "The Money Machine 2" - YouTube
16:56 < jrayhawk> I like the thing what makes the 3d swirlybits.
16:56 < kragen> .title http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wh6bb312fPg
16:56 < yoleaux> Filter Press for Dewatering, Water Treatment & Waste Water Sludges - YouTube
16:56 < fenn> oh no youtube is throttling me
16:57 < kragen> this Jeri video is super friendly.  I wish I knew how to be as friendly as she is
16:57 < jrayhawk> practice
16:58 < kanzure> extreme deception
16:58 < jrayhawk> well, faking conscientiousness isn't really particularly distinct from genuinely practicing conscientiousness
16:58 < fenn> core memory is so cool, let's do that again
16:58 < jrayhawk> er, wait, that's the wrong trait
16:59 < kanzure> that's what makes it difficult
16:59 < fenn> i want a brick of RAM
16:59 < jrayhawk> agreeableness and openness to experience
16:59 < kragen> sadly this is not her most popular video
17:02 < fenn> i bet you could squeeze a lot of processing power into a small space with magnetic logic if using high (GHz-THz) frequencies
17:02 < fenn> somewhere in there funny stuff happens due to NMR shift effects
17:03 < kragen> well, there's a reason that RF inductors don't use cores
17:03 < fenn> core losses
17:03 < fenn> but that's high current (high field strength)
17:04 < jrayhawk> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJ9izqMp154
17:04 < jrayhawk> .title
17:04 < yoleaux> Wrought iron Twisting machine twisting basket - YouTube
17:05 -!- nmz787_i [~nmccorkx@134.134.139.74] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
17:05 < kragen> wow, they did that with the iron cold
17:06 < jrayhawk> a pity it looks so uneven with 3x3
17:06 < jrayhawk> need octogonal iron extrusions
17:07 < kragen> I mean I know it's not steel but that's still impressive
17:09 < kragen> I don't know why these Nargesa videos all have so much mill scale flaking off in them
17:09 < kragen> I mean I know it happens but they seem to have gone to a lot of cinematographic effort to portray it
17:12 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r167-56-3-190.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
17:23 < fenn> ah this is what i was remembering, related to the selsyn http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amplidyne
17:23 < fenn> gain of 10,000x and "tens of kilowatts"
17:23 < fenn> enough to move battleship guns around
17:24 < fenn> totally cybernetic man
17:25 < jrayhawk> because oxidation is hot
18:56 < kragen> fenn: oh REALLY.  That is EXCELLENT. thank you.
18:56 < kragen> I've been looking for that for months.
18:56 < kragen> although, as it says, "Modern electronic devices for controlling power in the kilowatt range include MOSFET and IGBT devices."
18:57 < kragen> also there's a weird disconnect here in that high-power radio transmitters are still driven by vacuum tubes instead of MOSFETs or IGBTs
18:58 < kragen> but maybe that's a matter of high frequency and needing to be partway turned on
18:58 < fenn> IGBT only goes up to ~500V and mosfet ~1kV
18:58 < fenn> klystrons need ~20kV
18:58 < fenn> you can chain mosfets in series but who wants to do that
18:58 < kragen> people who want to drive their FIB device with MOSFETs?
18:59 < fenn> the interface sucks because you need isolated gate drivers
19:03 < kragen> what do those do? hold the gate at a particular voltage without it drawing any current?  I don't know much about electronics I fear
19:12 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-121-223-157-226.lns2.bat.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:13 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-121-223-157-226.lns2.bat.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap
19:17 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-121-223-157-226.lns2.bat.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
19:19 -!- rayston [~rayston@ip68-106-242-42.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
20:11 < kanzure> 19:55 <@gwern> http://www.crunchyroll.com/anime-news/2014/12/18/haruhi-voice-actress-says-yuki-chan-anime-scheduled-for-spring ugh. and of course the later novels focus heavily on yuki, even though she's a crappy rei wannabe
20:11 < kanzure> haha
20:13 < fenn> rei sucked anyway
20:13 < fenn> "oh daddy i'll do anything"
20:14 -!- rayston [~rayston@ip68-106-242-42.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
20:14 < fenn> at least i can understand yuki's motives :)
20:15 < fenn> schlepping bits all day, pushing electrons all night, can an entity get a break
20:16 < kanzure> the last person i knew that could explain rei to me turned into a schizophrenic a year later
20:16 < kanzure> (been a schizophrenic ever since)
20:17 < fenn> coincidence!?
20:18 < fenn> i figured rei was more aspergers/dissociative identity disorder
20:18 < fenn> the script writer was the one with schizophrenia
20:18 < kanzure> "This show, commonly refered to as Neon Genesis Evangelion, Evangelion, Eva, "Ee-Van-Jelly-Un", "Evangel Lion", or sometimes What the fuck did I just watch? is about an emo kid named Shinji Ikari who is under the care of Misato Katsuragi, an alcoholic pedophile. Along the way, he meets an emotionless loli named Rei and a Nazi loli named Asuka."
20:19 < kanzure> https://encyclopediadramatica.se/Neon_Genesis_Evangelion
20:20 < kanzure> "In Japanese, "Shinji" means "whiny Oedipus-complex bitch boy"."
20:24 < delinquentme> ^
20:24 < kanzure> "If you consider flailing around like a moron while screaming for no reason and at the same time having a dark mysterious past the pinnacle of good character development... then congratulations, you're a moron, or a Trigun fan."
20:25 < fenn> this page is accurate
20:25 < kanzure> there is much wisdom here
20:29 < kanzure> "You can also pwn silly theism vs. atheism drama debates on /b/ by spamming pictures of Haruhi"
20:29  * kanzure takes notes
20:37 < fenn> "Enough rule 34 yet?
20:38 < fenn> mmm HPV porn https://encyclopediadramatica.se/File:Evangelion_mushroom_people.jpg
20:38 < fenn> or something
20:40 < nmz787> I'm guess you guys aren't talking about the outdoor store REI
20:41 < kanzure> almost
20:42 < kanzure> huh, encyclopediadramatica.es is interesting (not encyclopediadramatica.se)
20:43 < fenn> some kind of antisec propaganda?
20:52 < fenn> why yes, i am in charge of a top secret underground military facility charged with defending earth from extraterrestrials http://dramatica.org.ua/%D0%A4%D0%B0%D0%B9%D0%BB:1369142165876.jpg
20:53 < fenn> also, penguins
20:53 < kanzure> is this russian encyclopediadramatica
20:53 < fenn> ua
20:54 < fenn> maybe if i look at enough dumb crap in cyrillic i will spontaneously be able to read it
20:54 < fenn> like reading rot13
21:07 -!- shubhamgoyal [~shubhamgo@118.189.209.93] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:13 -!- HEx1 [~HEx@hexwab.plus.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap
21:15 < kanzure> no enhanced abilities, no nothing
21:15 < kanzure> .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Df2BEgivuX0
21:15 < yoleaux> Paris Jackson in "Dial M for Monkey" - YouTube
21:19 -!- juri_ [~juri@vpn166.sdf.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
21:20 -!- juri_ [~juri@vpn166.sdf.org] has joined ##hplusroadmap
21:31 -!- yashgaroth [~ffffff@2606:6000:cb85:6a00:355e:fedf:80a9:3f9b] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
21:46 < nmz787> paperbot: http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v516/n7529/full/nature13875.html
21:46 < paperbot> http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1038%2Fnature13875
22:15 -!- shubhamgoyal [~shubhamgo@119.56.115.189] has joined ##hplusroadmap
22:20 -!- thundara_ [~thundara@despair.OCF.Berkeley.EDU] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:21 -!- juri_ [~juri@vpn166.sdf.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
22:26 -!- shubhamgoyal [~shubhamgo@119.56.115.189] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:28 -!- juri_ [~juri@vpn166.sdf.org] has joined ##hplusroadmap
22:53 -!- shubhamgoyal [~shubhamgo@119.56.123.212] has joined ##hplusroadmap
23:05 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-121-223-157-226.lns2.bat.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap
23:09 -!- shubhamgoyal [~shubhamgo@119.56.123.212] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:28 -!- drewbot [~cinch@ec2-54-167-115-188.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:28 -!- drewbot [~cinch@ec2-54-146-174-96.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap
23:28 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
23:36 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap