--- Log opened Thu Jan 01 00:00:09 2015
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02:55 < archels> paperbot: http://www.mitpressjournals.org/doi/pdf/10.1162/NECO_a_00687
03:00 < archels> what tip jar do I fell to roll back to that version that successfully grabbed NeCo papers
03:11 < nmz787> archels: http://diyhpl.us/~nmz787/pdf/Optimizing_the_Representation_of_Orientation_Preference_Maps_in_Visual_Cortex.pdf
03:12 < nmz787> it only took me so long because I switched from unity to xfce on ubuntu a few days ago, and can't easily switch network proxies now
03:12 < nmz787> that references http://diyhpl.us/~nmz787/pdf/Optimizing_the_Representation_of_Orientation_Preference_Maps_in_Visual_Cortex.pdf
03:13 < nmz787> err, https://github.com/nickjhughes/hclmat
03:14 < nmz787> I have often wondered what the perfect set of GUI/graph/plot colors are in case of a color-blind user
03:15 < archels> could you grab http://www.mitpressjournals.org/doi/pdf/10.1162/NECO_a_00670 too?
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03:26 < archels> and send me the address of that tip jar
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06:35 < kanzure> tip jars for this would be a very bad idea
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07:12 < kanzure> 03:47 < gmaxwell> adam3us: related to debugging race condtitions;  IIRC one feature of "rr" (A replay debugger: http://rr-project.org/ ; records all non-determinstic inputs to your program, including scheduling, so you can effectively go backwards in a debugger ) is that it can schedule your threads in a somewhat adversarial
07:13 < kanzure> 03:48 < gmaxwell> iddo: I dunno if you saw, but someone posted a tool with a new metalanguge wrapper around libsnark complete with circuits for sha256 and sha512.
07:13 < kanzure> 03:48 < gmaxwell> I'm pretty close to being able to demonstrate an actual zero knoweldge contingent payment in bitcoin using it.
07:13 < delinquentme_> Morning !!!
07:13 < delinquentme_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4z8QMgTEA4
07:14 < kanzure> 04:13 < iddo> BTW it needs snark circuit for AES, anyone wrote that yet? the zerocash people only wrote SHA256
07:14 < kanzure> 04:13 < gmaxwell> iddo: I replaced the AES with more SHA256. Also the zerocash people haven't released any of their circuits; fortunately someone else did.
07:14 < kanzure> .title
07:14 < yoleaux> Flite Test | Waterproofing Electronics - YouTube
07:19 < kanzure> 06:20 < gmaxwell> adam3us: wumpus has been toying some with getting bitcoin consensus code running inside moxie box... which is partially an expirement around sandboxing the consensus code to turn it into a bytecode to be damn sure its implemented determinstically...
07:19 < kanzure> 06:24 < gmaxwell> yea, moxie is a simple virtual machine, it's implementable as a ~1kloc of C switch statement.. so it should be fairly straightforward to prove that an implementation of it is absolutely determinstic and memory safe, etc. and presumably people could make optimized versions which were provably consistent with the spec and so on.
07:20 < kanzure> "rest api for any postgresql database" https://github.com/begriffs/postgrest
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07:58 < delinquentme_> I need to design office chairs for programmers
07:59 < delinquentme_> I wish I could take a pic of this setup I've got right now ... it feels fucking AMAZING
07:59 < delinquentme_> ikea poang chair + pillow under the butt to lift me up, so shoulders hang + elbows dont hit arm rests
08:00 < delinquentme_> two tennis balls one the lower back -- srsly feels ./drool good
08:00 < delinquentme_> and a simple orange juice bottle between the shoulderblades
08:00 < delinquentme_> for once while Im programming ... my chest isn't concave
08:01 < shannon> tennis balls?
08:02 < delinquentme_> yeah
08:02 < delinquentme_> they're amazing for getting knots out
08:02 < delinquentme_> knots in your muscles
08:02 < delinquentme_> oh and the legs are up on a chair w a heating pad underneath
08:03 < delinquentme_> I cant help but think that the lumbar area doesnt need to be in a single position ... but instead adjusted forwards / backwards as you work
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08:03 < delinquentme_> now if only my hands would thaw out -- i'd be good
08:06 < cluckj> the poang chair is pretty great
08:08 < delinquentme_> its decent but while its cold outside ... I've got the slightly lacking circulation in the extremities
08:08 < delinquentme_> and the angle / height is kind of assisting in the lack of blood flow to the toes
08:09 < cluckj> they make a footstool that matches the chair
08:09 < delinquentme_> kanzure, you're near dallas right?
08:10 < cluckj> it's not a great footstool, but it does give you a place to put your feet
08:10 < delinquentme_> yeahhh I just dont have it :D
08:10 < delinquentme_> know what feels amazing? fidgeting around and having the tennis balls massage your lower back
08:14 < delinquentme_> http://www.jacobsschool.ucsd.edu/news/news_releases/release.sfe?id=1589
08:14 < delinquentme_> Engineers at UC San Diego have developed a nanoparticle-based material for concentrating solar power plants that converts 90% of captured sunlight to heat. With particle sizes ranging from 10 nanometers to 10 micrometers, the multiscale structure traps and absorbs light more efficiently and at temperatures greater than 700 degrees Celsius. Credit: Renkun Chen, UC San Diego Jacobs School of Engineering.
08:14 < kanzure> i am in austin
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08:15 < delinquentme_> How is the temperature shift upwards ... here to 700 C ... correlate with lower temps and superconductivity
08:15 < delinquentme_> ?
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10:39 < kanzure> 10:30 < gmaxwell> petertodd: Building consensus code in very high level languages, demonstrated: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkTvDjhImwo
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10:51 < narwh4l> kanzure serpent offers turing complete contracts, right?
10:52 < kanzure> hehe
10:52 < kanzure> well, i think the answer is yes, but why do you ask
10:52  * narwh4l shrugs
10:53 < narwh4l> nevermind, didn't watch video
10:53 < narwh4l> thought it was srs
10:53 < kanzure> it is serious :)
10:53 < kanzure> that's not supposed to happen
10:53 < kanzure> is good demonstration of how to fuck with people that don't understand how stuff works
10:53 < narwh4l> I'm about 1:40 into the video atm
10:53 < kanzure> narwh4l: these are things worth reading https://download.wpsoftware.net/bitcoin/pos.pdf https://download.wpsoftware.net/bitcoin/alts.pdf
10:54 < narwh4l> wtf
10:54 < kanzure> haha
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11:02 < kanzure> .title http://rspb.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/early/2011/10/12/rspb.2011.1959.short
11:02 < yoleaux> Online social network size is reflected in human brain structure | Proceedings of the Royal Society of London B: Biological Sciences
11:02 < kanzure> " Here, we show a biological basis for such variability by demonstrating that quantitative variation in the number of friends an individual declares on a web-based social networking service reliably predicted grey matter density in the right superior temporal sulcus, left middle temporal gyrus and entorhinal cortex. Such regions have been previously implicated in social perception and associative memory, respectively. "
11:03 < narwh4l> tl;dr people who are social tend to be good at it
11:03 < kanzure> according to these results i should have a jupiter brain
11:04 < kanzure> i'll just have to send them a nastygram asking them where my extra brain mass i've been promised is located
11:06 < narwh4l> They would probably just tell you to get more friends
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11:06 < narwh4l> "here are some friend flashcards. memorize the shape of their eyebrows"
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11:22 < kanzure> hehe
11:26 < cluckj> lol
11:28 < kanzure> cluckj: page 9 figure 1 and page 10, thoughts? http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/neuro/Ecological%20dominance,%20social%20competition,%20and%20coalitionary%20arms%20races:%20Why%20humans%20evolved%20extraordinary%20intelligence.pdf
11:29 < cluckj> the table?
11:30 < kanzure> yes
11:30 < kanzure> wait, you're not particularly anti-evolutionary-anthropology are you?
11:31 < cluckj> I have a complicated relationship with biological determinism of social stuff
11:32 < kanzure> page 26 section 5 first paragraph is interesting and all, but there's no explanation here of how that runaway got started here but not elsewhere
11:33 < cluckj> runaway selection means self-reinforcing
11:34 < kanzure> right but why aren't other brains self-reinforcing in other species
11:34 < cluckj> an escalating feedback loop
11:34 < archels> someone had to be first
11:34 < cluckj> in the second paragraph they explain why
11:34 < kanzure> yes but we're relativey late in history compared to other brained species
11:35 < kanzure> i don't see the explanation there
11:36 < kanzure> those are all results
11:37 < cluckj> 1) unusual pattern of speciation 2) unusual life history pattern 3) unique mating system 4) neocortex size difference etc.
11:37 < kanzure> that sounds like the result and not the cause to me
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11:39 < cluckj> causality is different in the social sciences, what they're referring to is all of those things co-constituting together, rather than a single thing causing multiple effects
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11:41 < cluckj> not a --> b, c, d; but a <--> b <--> c <--> d, where everything is getting positive feedback from everything else and itself
11:42 < kanzure> so that sounds like the "someone had to be first" argument, in which case i refer you to "we're pretty late in history"
11:43 < cluckj> I'm not sure what you mean
11:43 < cluckj> they're talking about populations evolving, not individuals
11:45 < kanzure> seems unlikely that no other populations were exposed to multiple confounding factors in the past 500 million years etc
11:45 < cluckj> yes
11:46 < cluckj> it's kind of a typical teleological explanation (in evolutionary psych.) for why humans are the way we are
11:47 < cluckj> at least they aren't trying to explain how human culture or society works using evolutionary principles...
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12:18 < nmz787> archels: sorry i went to sleep I guess http://diyhpl.us/~nmz787/pdf/Topological_Sparse_Learning_of_Dynamic_Form_Patterns.pdf
12:23 < archels> cool, much obliged!
12:28 < kanzure> narwh4l: petertodd was talking about things like libbitcoinconsensus
12:28 < kanzure> narwh4l: also i highly recommend allowing petertodd to shoot you, he's pretty great at the job
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12:33 < kanzure> "Prisoners read more library books than do non-prisoners" http://acrosswalls.org/section/communicative-structure/prison-libraries/page/4/
12:33 < kanzure> yes well myabe if librarians weren't so ridiculously afraid of doing their job i'd have more books too
12:33  * narwh4l shrugs
12:33 < narwh4l> I don't ever buy books
12:34 < kanzure> narwh4l: libraries are a conspiracy operated by olcl
12:34 < kanzure> er, oclc
12:34 < narwh4l> the literati
12:34 < kanzure> and this is why there's no libraries defiantly posting digital content online
12:34 < kanzure> (don't you think it's a little strange that libraries just "gave up"?)
12:35 < narwh4l> actually I haz uni library access so I'm set in electronic material too ^_^
12:35 < kanzure> heh
12:35 < kanzure> we have paperbot for that <3
12:35 < narwh4l> most books I can get online if they were published in the last few years
12:35 < narwh4l> yes, I can potentially get papers for you as well
12:35 < narwh4l> Just gotta be careful not to go overboard and be sentenced to 38 years in prison
12:35 < kanzure> paperbot v2 has some try-multiple-ezproxy-endpoint features but i haven't tested this yet
12:36 < kanzure> https://github.com/kanzure/paperbot/tree/master/paperbot
12:36 < kanzure> https://raw.githubusercontent.com/kanzure/ezproxy-urls/master/urls.txt
12:36 < narwh4l> kanzure, I am releasing a hardware project in March
12:36 < narwh4l> I think you are going to like it ^_^
12:36 < narwh4l> it's not 100% hardware
12:36 < narwh4l> but it has a lot to do with this subject
12:36 < kanzure> ocr thing?
12:36 < narwh4l> negative
12:36 < kanzure> hm
12:37 < narwh4l> although that will be one application
12:37 < narwh4l> sec...
12:38 < narwh4l> basically I'm going some networking magic to make a p2p network with easily configurable distributed data collection and load balancing for said data collection as well as automatic delegation of tasks to find acceptable models of a parameter that you care about
12:38 < narwh4l> whether the data set is 100kb or 30TB
12:39 < narwh4l> GPUs are essentially what enables this to be feasible now
12:39 < kanzure> how are you dealing with sybil attacks?
12:39 < narwh4l> There are a couple ways....one is the good old, don't connect with people you don't trust and then just rely on small world network
12:39 < narwh4l> small world routing is really efficient btw
12:40 < narwh4l> and then you have some extra measures akin to a blockchain where a node can quickly verify it belongs in its position by sending hashes of files and results it has generated
12:40 < kanzure> "in its position"?
12:40 < narwh4l> well you have some arbitrary addressing space in your p2p network
12:41 < narwh4l> it gets all fucked up when people can lie about where they belong and who they are
12:41 < narwh4l> if I'm assigning you important tasks and you just go "lol" I'm equally as fucked
12:41 < narwh4l> ^_^
12:42 < kanzure> one of the ways to defend against sybil is to use a centralized model, so why not use that here?
12:42 < kanzure> then you can do centralized resource allocation
12:42 < narwh4l> cause that's a single point of failure to attack
12:42 < kanzure> well sybil attacks are far more deadly
12:42 < narwh4l> if they're successful, sure
12:42 < narwh4l> but if I wanted to use a centralized server I'd just use hadoop
12:43 < kanzure> as for checking results sounds like you will need something like snarks or http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/bitcoin/VerSum:%20Verifiable%20computations%20over%20large%20public%20logs.pdf
12:43 < narwh4l> not to mention decentralized systems might be easier to carry out sybil on, but as far as compromising individual nodes when operating in a small-world darknet, it's way way harder
12:44 < kanzure> as for darknets i've been thinking this is an interesting direction, http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/security/The%20Pynchon%20Gate:%20A%20secure%20method%20of%20pseudonymous%20mail%20retrieval%20-%20Len%20Sassaman%20-%20Bram%20Cohen%20-%20Nick%20Mathewson.pdf and http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/security/pynchon/
12:44 < narwh4l> if you can make it too expensive to carry out sybil at any given moment, you're good. it shouldn't be as simple as "mining"
12:44 < kanzure> uhrm..
12:44 < kanzure> i am skeptical
12:44 < narwh4l> kk
12:44 < narwh4l> that's fine
12:45 < narwh4l> I'm not claiming superiority over crypto btw
12:45 < narwh4l> er blockchains rather
12:45 < kanzure> due to the explosion of people trying to fork bitcoin's system for other purposes, i have looked at many proposals for preventing sybil attacks, and in general i think people are bad at this
12:45 < kanzure> right, i know you're not claiming that
12:45 < narwh4l> just that I think I have something more appropriate for this use
12:45 < kanzure> but even torrents (as a transfer protocol) doesn't really solve this
12:45 < narwh4l> people are bad at it, I agree with you
12:46 < narwh4l> I'm probably not giving you a nice explanation....so you have the data you possess, the work you're supposed to complete and the resources you have access to
12:46 < narwh4l> all of these can be verified
12:46 < narwh4l> they create a fingerprint for you at a point in time
12:47 < kanzure> does this verification require trusted setup
12:47 < narwh4l> I suppose so, yes
12:48 < kanzure> well anyway, all of these issues are security/incentives/attacks, and not problems of resource allocation (which is i assume the meat of your actual proposal)
12:49 < narwh4l> correct
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12:55 < kanzure> are you familiar with snarks, arguments of knowledge, zero knowledge, etc?
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13:04 < narwh4l> zero knowledge proofs definitely
13:05 < narwh4l> honestly don't know what a snark is
13:05 < narwh4l> it's probably some randomly appearing and disappearing thing
13:06 < narwh4l> developing on this board:
13:06 < narwh4l> http://www.amazon.com/NVIDIA-Jetson-TK1-Development-Kit/dp/B00L7AWOEC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1420146383&sr=8-1&keywords=jetson+tk1
13:06 < narwh4l> desirable because nice but low power gpu
13:07 < narwh4l> 192 threads is just fine if it's a p2p network
13:07 < narwh4l> not releasing as a product, just a FOSS project
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13:09 < nmz787> btw in case you don't see in the main chat room http://diyhpl.us/~nmz787/pdf/Topological_Sparse_Learning_of_Dynamic_Form_Patterns.pdf
13:09 < nmz787> whoops
13:09 < nmz787> wrong termin
13:10 < nmz787> I think I saw the Jetson at Makerfaire
13:10 < narwh4l> yeah, cool little board
13:10 < narwh4l> I'm also writing an article for Make about it
13:11 < nmz787> so you can use CUDA extensions?
13:11 < narwh4l> Yep!
13:11 < nmz787> hmm
13:11 < narwh4l> 192 cuda cores is not a lot compared to a desktop gpu but the power consumption is attractive
13:11 < nmz787> how much is a decent 6 to 8 inch 1080 HDMI screen?
13:11 < nmz787> I imagine $75?
13:11  * narwh4l shrugs
13:11 < narwh4l> sure
13:12 < narwh4l> also pdxbyte had a great talk about reversing the RPi's GPU, pretty excellent work
13:13 < nmz787> hmm, I am not finding them
13:13 < nmz787> on amazon at least
13:13 < nmz787> ah, yeah I missed that in-person
13:14 < nmz787> are you in pdx?
13:14 < narwh4l> nope
13:14 < narwh4l> Outside of Detroit
13:14  * narwh4l has to go, bbl
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14:12 < kanzure> .wik john titor
14:12 < yoleaux> "John Titor is the name used on several bulletin boards during 2000 and 2001 by a poster claiming to be a time traveler from 2036." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Titor
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14:21 < narwh4l> Please no nuclear war in 2015
14:21 < narwh4l> That would be a very shitty last couple of years
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15:06 < kanzure> haha robotech quotes http://www.psydb.net/samples/1-b.php#3165
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15:31 < kanzure> http://www.psydb.net/sound/samples/s-hyperion_-_sun_flower.mp3 these people are silly
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15:58 < delinquentme_> .wik carl crott
15:58 < yoleaux> delinquentme_: Sorry, I couldn't find article.
15:58 < delinquentme_> ha ha!
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17:34 < kanzure> hmm
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20:22 < kanzure> i have the answer
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21:12 < nmz787> .wik big mac index
21:12 < yoleaux> "The Big Mac Index is published by The Economist as an informal way of measuring the purchasing power parity (PPP) between two currencies and provides a test of the extent to which market exchange rates result in goods costing the same in different countries. It "seeks to make exchange-rate theory a bit more digestible"." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_mac_index
21:22 < kanzure> .g site:arxiv.org "yo momma"
21:22 < yoleaux> No results found.
21:22 < kanzure> a tragedy
21:48 < delinquentme_> MUAHAHAH
21:48 < delinquentme_> diamond is now working
21:49 < delinquentme_> .g site:arxiv.org "panties"
21:49 < yoleaux> http://arxiv-web.arxiv.org/pdf/1310.7682v1
21:49 < delinquentme_> kanzure, im better at this than you are
21:50 < kanzure> yes, you found the one joke about your mom on arxiv
21:50 < kanzure> congrats
21:58 < delinquentme_> no kanzoo
21:58 < delinquentme_> i found panties.
21:58 < delinquentme_> now im wearing them
21:58 < delinquentme_> #welcomeToSF!
22:00 < bkero> ^ This is why I don't live in SF
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22:01 < kanzure> bkero: how's paycoin working out
22:01 < kanzure> sorry, that's mean of me
22:01 < kanzure> retracted
22:02 < bkero> kanzure: pretty great. Sold at 0.047btc
22:03 < kanzure> you can't answer a retracted question that's against the rules or something
22:03  * kanzure sleeps
22:03 < bkero> lol ok
22:04 < delinquentme_> bkero, the crazy humans is totally worth being around the smartest ones
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--- Log closed Fri Jan 02 00:00:10 2015