--- Log opened Sun Jan 04 00:00:13 2015
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03:46 < archels> kanzure: the mention of cybernetics in that HN comment thread is interesting
03:46 < archels> (the one on biology needing a Grothendieck or Hilbert)
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03:52 < Qfwfq> augur_: I'd be interested in reading the Haskell side of Language-Engine should you ever release it.
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08:11 < kanzure> archels: fenn lived with that guy for a while
08:19 < kanzure> fenn: what about paid bounties on certain torrents to encourage offline seeders to show up again?
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10:09 < kanzure> .to delinquentme "There is also an American deathgrind band named Hatebeak with a 21 year old African grey parrot named Waldo on vocals." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYeximOhaUk
10:09 < yoleaux> kanzure: I'll pass your message to delinquentme.
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10:34 < kanzure> hi eudoxia
10:34 < eudoxia> kanzure: happy birthday to you :>
10:34 < eudoxia> a whole quarter of a century already
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10:42 < TMA> quarter of a century... so young
10:43 < TMA> kanzure: let me wish you a happy birthday, even though we've never met
10:43 < kanzure> you guys are weird
10:46  * TMA (still) vividly remembers what it felt like when TMA was only a quarter of a century old. there was no need for nootropics, the brain was fresh and fast even without them
10:46 < eudoxia> kanzure: what's up?
10:48 < augur_> Qfwfq: good to know! :)
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12:08 < jrayhawk_> kanzure will always be, like, twelve in our hearts
12:10 < kanzure> cannibalism, is it?
12:15 < AmbulatoryCortex> eat the flesh of the young to gain their youth, and all that
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12:25 < kanzure> delinquentme: just got a call from my sister that she's up in santa clara, do you do redwood tours?
12:29 < delinquentme> Do you mean like give tours?
12:29 < yoleaux> 18:09Z <kanzure> delinquentme: "There is also an American deathgrind band named Hatebeak with a 21 year old African grey parrot named Waldo on vocals." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYeximOhaUk
12:29 < delinquentme> ROFL kanzure <3
12:29 < delinquentme> I don't know redwood very well
12:29 < delinquentme> but SF is possible
12:30 < delinquentme> I am also incredibly low on funds at the moment till I start getting paychex
12:30 < kanzure> btw when did they say you're starting?
12:31 < delinquentme> havnt gotten a date yet
12:31 < kanzure> did you get an offer letter?
12:31 < delinquentme> nope only a over-the-phone "yes"
12:31 < kanzure> messed up
12:31 < delinquentme> paperwork is being pushed through starting monday I was told?
12:31 < delinquentme> explain
12:32 < kanzure> nah i mean usually companies are more prompt about this sort of thing, whatever
12:32 < delinquentme> I should have gotten a paper-formatted notification?
12:32 < kanzure> well, email with pdf attachment that you sign
12:32 < delinquentme> its certainly 'harder' but I feel right
12:32 < delinquentme> right = alright *
12:34 < poppingtonic> rofl Hatebeak with a cackling parrot.
12:35 < delinquentme> but yah if your sis is around i'd hangout / grab a coffee and tell her to work on life extension
12:37 < kanzure> .wik ERCC1
12:37 < yoleaux> "DNA excision repair protein ERCC-1 is a protein that in humans is encoded by the ERCC1 gene." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ERCC1
12:37 < kanzure> .wik PCNA
12:37 < yoleaux> "Proliferating cell nuclear antigen (PCNA) is a DNA clamp that acts as a processivity factor for DNA polymerase δ in eukaryotic cells and is essential for replication." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCNA
12:38 < kanzure> "Magalhaes is now seeking funding for a project that will insert the whales' genes into mice to see if that improves their resistance to disease"
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13:56 < delinquentme> http://gen.lib.rus.ec/
13:56 < delinquentme> ^ libgen mirror
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15:08 < delinquentme> One of the great things (I guess if you're a Unix geek) about Graphite is that it also comes with a CLI.  ... To access the CLI, simple point your browser at http://yourgraphiteinstall/cli or just click the link on the top of the regular composer window. You will be presented with a prompt like this:
15:08 < delinquentme> wat.
15:09 < catern> ahahahhaha
15:09 < catern> web dev logic
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15:22 < nmz787> .tell genehacker check out more detailed info here: https://github.com/nmz787/microfluidic-cad/   and     nmz787.github.io/html/microfluidics_cad.html
15:22 < yoleaux> nmz787: I'll pass your message to genehacker.
15:30 < nmz787> .wik Vapor phase reflow
15:30 < yoleaux> "A reflow oven is a machine used primarily for reflow soldering of surface mount electronic components to printed circuit boards (PCB)." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reflow_oven
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15:49 < nmz787> hmm, $2750 for an SEM and EDX detector (needs work) 2 weeks ago in Seattle
15:51 < kanzure> SEM needs work?
15:52 < nmz787> probably power realted
15:53 < nmz787> puming station one had something like that, ended up a power supply just needed switched from 240V input to 120V input
15:53 < nmz787> UK to US power grid
15:53 < nmz787> though needs work would only really be OK if the system came with manuals
15:54 < nmz787> I've read the FIB manuals a bit (there is a whole 4 ft shelf worth of those 2 inch thick binders from school)
15:54 < nmz787> they actually have some schematics
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15:58 < nmz787> kanzure: start of what looks to be where this example does intersection (I want to add and connect a bend to that channel I made) https://github.com/nmz787/verb/blob/master/example/threeMeshIntersectExample.html#L397
16:00 < nmz787> in this example, though, they use THREE to tesselate, while here I guese they push that elsewhere (lightgl maybe?) https://github.com/nmz787/verb/blob/master/example/geometry.html
16:00 < kanzure> https://github.com/pboyer/verb/blob/803e560d0decd21e8c36e6ccf68408860ddbf43f/src/eval/intersect.js#L1122
16:01 < kanzure> this is mesh intersection and not nurbs intersection
16:02 < kanzure> although intersect_rational_surface_surface_by_aabb_refine might be nurbs
16:02 < kanzure> hmm intersect_rational_surface_surface_by_aabb_refine also does tessellation, so nope
16:03 < nmz787> hmm, so, it's less mathy and more iterative?
16:04 < nmz787> err, more discretized?
16:05 < nmz787> i mean doing the intersection on the meshes
16:05 < nmz787> rather than intersecting and coming out with new control points and/or knots, etc
16:06 < nmz787> so doing it on meshes means less performance?
16:06 < nmz787> does anything else do NURBS intersection? brl?
16:07 < nmz787> "while we can raytrace them we are still developing the ability to perform operations such as subtraction and intersection between two solid NURBS Boundary Representations "
16:07 < nmz787> .title http://brlcad.org/wiki/NURBS_Intersections
16:07 < yoleaux> NURBS Booleans - BRL-CAD
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16:09 < kanzure> that wiki page is probably out of date, check last modified time
16:09 < kanzure> in 2012 and 2013 they implemented nurbs-nurbs intersection math
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16:16 < nmz787> is that accessible from brl-python?
16:18 < kanzure> nope
16:18 < kanzure> their work on nurbs-nurbs intersection was in c++
16:18 < kanzure> and python-brlcad only has access to anything that can be ctypes'd
16:18 < kanzure> so i would have to write a c wrapper around their c++ stuff
16:38 < kanzure> hmm i saw that diybio email where someone is complaining about microfluidics cad, i don't think most cad software is going to be really appropriate
16:38 < kanzure> a generic parts library would be better
16:39 < kanzure> you don't really have to worry about individual part geometry, since most laminar effects can be constructed from standard components and standard shapes
16:43 < nmz787> you mean sebastian talking about draftsight?
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16:43 < nmz787> oh, a new reply
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17:11 < nmz787> he's previously said "I solely do .NET programming"
17:12 < nmz787> so I wonder if CAD programming is out of the question for hinm
17:12 < kanzure> i don't think that stl is a good export format for microfluidics
17:15 < nmz787> yeah I think it would be faster to export slices directly
17:15 < nmz787> but it would def be useful for CFD
17:15 < nmz787> or FEA
17:15 < nmz787> s/faster/more directly useful/
17:16 < nmz787> I want to try palabos
17:16 < nmz787> but I pretty much have no free time now until this class is over
17:16 < nmz787> :(
17:17 < nmz787> ugh angst already "This laboratory is a University-recognized writing intensive course (WIC). In addition to completing the labs and obtaining and evaluating results, you will be expected to describe your work in reports that are similar to scientific journal articles."
17:19 < kanzure> ssh transparent proxy stuff https://github.com/apenwarr/sshuttle
17:19 < nmz787> I have no idea why this intersection section of the example is so ugly and difficult looking
17:20 < nmz787> with implicitCAD it was just union or difference
17:21 < kanzure> implicitcad was not doing mesh-based intersections
17:21 < kanzure> as far as i know
17:21 < kanzure> i believe i warned you that verbnurbs did not have nurbs surface-surface intersection yet
17:26 < nmz787> yeah but you didn't answer as to if that only related to performance or somthing else
17:26 < kanzure> it's literally not implemented
17:26 < nmz787> that doesn't answer the question
17:27 < kanzure> what?
17:27 < kanzure> if you didn't want nurbs then you would just use stl mesh "cad"
17:27 < nmz787> the question is how nurbs and mesh intersection differ/compare/perform-relatively
17:28 < kanzure> nurbs is curves, stl isn't
17:28 < nmz787> why not mesh the NURBS then intersect... only reason I can see if potentially massive difference in performance
17:28 < nmz787> the STL is just discretized from the NURBS though
17:28 < kanzure> often there's more than one intersection you want in an object
17:29 < nmz787> sure
17:29 < nmz787> that seems unrelated though, or an aside
17:29 < nmz787> unless you're again coming back to performance
17:29 < nmz787> saying that there would need to be many more meshes created before intersection occurs
17:29 < nmz787> but you aren't saying anything really
17:30 < nmz787> so I can't understand your concern
17:30 < kanzure> anything can be called performance... "the performance of the intersection algorithm" "the performance of the curve" "the memory performance"
17:30 < kanzure> there's a degradation in output quality the more you use meshes
17:30 < kanzure> meshes are not curves
17:31 < kanzure> (naturally, there can be a mesh of curved surfaces but that's not what it means in this context)
17:31 < kanzure> if you take the intersection of two meshes you have a degradation
17:31 < kanzure> if you take the intersection of two curved surfaces you do not have a degradation depending on your intersection algorithm choice
17:32 < kanzure> if your "nurbs" intersection algorithm is "convert both surfaces to meshes, then intersect using bounding boxes" then you will also have a degradation
17:32 < kanzure> anyway, after you convert to a mesh you are stuck with a mesh, rather than a nurbs object
17:33 < kanzure> a perfect nurbs sphere can happen with <100 kilobytes of memory, and a perfect stl mesh sphere would take theoretically an unlimited amount of memory i guess
17:36 < nmz787> ok, so performance degrades with mesh, cool
17:36 < nmz787> you could have just said that in the first place
17:36 < kanzure> "performance"
17:37 < kanzure> i don't think that word means what you think it means
17:37 < nmz787> and "precision/accuracy"
17:37 < nmz787> sure, with quotes around it makes perfect sense
17:37 < kanzure> there's a lot of knowledge that saying "precision/accuracy/performance" is totally missing out on
17:37 < nmz787> so what
17:38 < kanzure> well, you're missing out on a lot of potential conclusions that i don't know why you are ignoring
17:38 < nmz787> the point is I got the info out of you
17:38 < nmz787> ;)
17:38 < kanzure> uh?
17:39 < nmz787> no, I am not interested in unlimited resolution, nanometers at most... so bounded by that constraint, performance in general (or time to render a result and how well that rendering is formed) is better for nurbs intersection vs mesh intersection
17:39 < kanzure> rendering is only useful for visualization really, in which case you might as well not use nurbs at all
17:39 < kanzure> or any cad for that matter. it could just be povray or pretty pics painted on walls.
17:41 < kanzure> cad intersection errors are known to cause actual problems
17:42 < nmz787> wrong, i can't use nurbs for grbl for driving a lithography machine
17:42 < nmz787> i need it rendered to gcode
17:42 < nmz787> or BMP
17:42 < kanzure> wasn't this what fenn was telling you about the other day...
17:43 < nmz787> ?
17:43 < nmz787> you seem to have forgotten then
17:43 < nmz787> because why would you not remember needing gcode?
17:43 < kanzure> why have i forgotten?
17:44 < kanzure> huh?
17:44 < kanzure> you generate gcode based on the final model, not the intermediates
17:45 < nmz787> sure
17:45 < nmz787> unless you want to test the intermediates or something
17:45 < nmz787> why do you mention it?
17:45 < kanzure> you are interested in correct models
17:46 < kanzure> without error propagation from mesh-based intersections
17:46 < nmz787> you wouldn't call that performance related? I would
17:46 < kanzure> performance is just a really vague term
17:46 < nmz787> a crappy ferrari replica that literally 'cut corners' and didn't run very well would be considered having crappy performance relative to a real ferrari
17:47 < nmz787> i.e. they intersected their engine head curves with the valves using meshes rather than nurbs
17:47 < nmz787> vague is good though in some cases
17:47 < nmz787> it covers all this
17:47 < nmz787> it makes for not-long-like-this discussions on IRC for example
17:48 < nmz787> but I digress, you gave reasonable info after some time, so I am happier with that knowedge
17:48 < nmz787> knowledge
17:52 < kanzure> if you are primarily interested in (especially browser-based) visualizations for human inspection i strongly encourage you to stick to mesh-based intersection algorithms because there's lots of those. and also you will have quicker results and you will be less frustrated and wont blame it on me.
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17:55 < nmz787> I like accuracy though
18:00 < kanzure> that's valiant and great, but uh, are you sure you need it here?
18:00 < kanzure> for example, you definitely don't need atomic precision
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18:03 < nmz787> no, but I would like to be able to set it... 'quick view mode' and 'laser printer quality mode', 'laser lithography mode', 'lithography quality mode', 'fib/sem quality mode'
18:05 < poppingtonic> http://www.sfgate.com/business/article/Controversial-DNA-startup-wants-to-let-customers-5992426.php#photo-7342819
18:05 < poppingtonic> .title
18:05 < yoleaux> Controversial DNA startup wants to let customers create creatures - SFGate
18:05 < poppingtonic> Cambrian Genomics
18:07 < kanzure> wtf cambrian genomics isn't controversial, they are lying
18:09 < nmz787> this lady thinks it is http://www.geneticsandsociety.org/article.php?id=2081
18:10 < nmz787> "Letter to HFEA: Consider the Risks of “Mitochondrial Manipulation” Discussed by the FDA
18:10 < nmz787> "
18:10 < poppingtonic> crazy bioethicists will be all over this
18:10 < kanzure> crazy bioethicists are crazy and thus should be removed from modern society
18:10 < kanzure> there should be a bioethics of not exposing me to crazy bioethicists
18:11 < poppingtonic> :D
18:11 < nmz787> some ppl are crazzzy
18:11 < nmz787> I watched GMO OMG last night
18:11 < nmz787> dude said something like 'GMOs fall into two basic categories, insecticide producers, and herbicide resistant'
18:12 < kanzure> clearly he is not from this planet
18:12 < nmz787> and when they talked about bugs having insecticide resistance as a result of tons of spraying, they sounded all horrified, but didn't mention that it just means we're back to where we were before that tech was used
18:14 < nmz787> and then he was talking about the original version of this paper http://www.enveurope.com/content/26/1/14
18:15 < kanzure> .title
18:15 < yoleaux> Environmental Sciences Europe | Full text | Republished study: long-term toxicity of a Roundup herbicide and a Roundup-tolerant genetically modified maize
18:20 < poppingtonic> .wik gmo omg
18:20 < yoleaux> "A genetically modified organism (GMO) is any organism whose genetic material has been altered using genetic engineering techniques. GMOs are the source of genetically modified foods and are also widely used in scientific research and to produce goods other than food." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetically_modified_organism
18:24 < kanzure> hrm, isn't this the memex essay thing? http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1945/07/as-we-may-think/303881/?single_page=true
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18:31 < poppingtonic> .title
18:31 < yoleaux> As We May Think - The Atlantic
18:32 < nmz787> it's on netflix
18:34 < poppingtonic> "He may perish in conflict before he learns to wield that record for his true good."
18:35 < kanzure> ~prophecies of the future~
18:35 < kanzure> sort of
18:35 < nmz787> .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NbmnKGT2NM
18:35 < yoleaux> CH427 Expt1 Pot and Spec Detn of pH - YouTube
18:35 < nmz787> hmm, youtube has share-only videos
18:36 < nmz787> i.e. this video doesn't show up here https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVeQxF_sjPfWSYcQ_JpFz8g/videos
18:36 < poppingtonic> nmz787: have you seen DNA Dreams?
18:36 < nmz787> oO no
18:36 < poppingtonic> It's about the Beijing Genomics Institute.
18:37 < poppingtonic> on youtube.
18:37 < kanzure> ah yes the space heater facility in china
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18:37 < poppingtonic> haha
18:40 < nmz787> I stopped being interested in BGI a while ago, after I heard some rumors about their data being of questionable quality, and then later when I started looking into funding from them and ITAR
18:43 < poppingtonic> what kind of data was being talked about?
18:44 < kanzure> probably just their reads
18:51 < nmz787> yeah can't remember where I heard the doubt
18:51 < nmz787> maybe online
18:51 < kanzure> cory
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21:35 < fenn> very troubling
21:36 < kanzure> sup
21:36 < fenn> bioethicists :(
21:36 < delinquentme> kanzure, you said that you've only looked over configuring graphite right?
21:36 < delinquentme> not actually implemented?
21:36 < delinquentme> fenn, no such thing.
21:36 < kanzure> i have been implicated in the practice of many dark arts
21:36 < delinquentme> the island, its a hollywood tutorial
21:36 < delinquentme> go make it happen
21:36 < kanzure> i am currently not responsible for any active graphite servers
21:37 < fenn> how do i get off the island
21:37 < delinquentme> currently troubleshooting a system
21:37 < delinquentme> fenn, you're already off it.  You want to BUILD it
21:37 < fenn> oh
21:37 < kanzure> you are the island
21:37 < fenn> EVERY MAN
21:38  * kanzure consults with patri friedman's scalp
21:38 < fenn> phrenologist
21:38 < kanzure> hush
21:38 < kanzure> yeah if bioethics and anti-GMOers have problems with just these very basic concepts, i wonder how they will respond when they learn what sex is
21:40 < fenn> why is it that every bioethicist is solidly AGAINST whatever new technology
21:40 < fenn> what about the billions of people currently dying, what about them!
21:40 < kanzure> also, why isn't mansanto funding anti-anti-GMO bioethicists?
21:41 < fenn> because they don't need to
21:41 < fenn> the just sell corn, man
21:41 < kanzure> at that scale you hedge bets like crazy
21:41 < kanzure> throwing a few dollars to some people to write up ethics of biowhatever is a non-decision for them
21:41 < fenn> i guarantee monsanto has zero research into human genetic engineering
21:41 < kanzure> oh sure
21:41 < kanzure> definitely
21:44 < fenn> i'd love it if the first genetically engineered human was completely indistinguishable from any other human
21:46 < kanzure> you should just claim you're genetically engineered
21:46 < kanzure> by your parents
21:47 < kanzure> through a natural process called fertilization
21:47 < kanzure> i suppose for you to claim this you would first have to believe you're actually human
21:47 < kanzure> and i've never asked you about that
21:49  * fenn invokes the no-philosophy rule
21:55 < fenn> soviet union #1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_video_games#All_platforms
21:55 < kanzure> what a strange day
21:56 < kanzure> #slatestarcodex banned me because "hplusroadmap is boring" (and it's infested with #lesswrong people)
21:56 < fenn> huh
21:56 < kanzure> exactly
21:57 < fenn> so much for rationality
21:57 < kanzure> yeah i've been surprised by how weird #lesswrong is
21:57 < kanzure> it's definitely not a rationality group
21:57 < delinquentme> OMGGG finally carbon is running
21:58 < nmz787> apparently this exists https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/coast-to-coast-journal-club
21:59 < kanzure> hmm i don't get those genspace emails
21:59 < kanzure> very curious
21:59 < kanzure> i've always hated how exclusive out-group/in-group genspace has been
21:59 < kanzure> way to run a community
22:00 < kanzure> "Mary Ward here at Counter Culture Labs has been very interested in restarting the journal club, but she can't seem to join the mailing list."
22:00 < kanzure> what?
22:00 < kanzure> "Did anyone else get disconnected from the journal club this afternoon on Ibuprofen and aging?"
22:00 < kanzure> i bet they are using google hangouts :(
22:00 < fenn> lame
22:01 < kanzure> "Someone mentioned that zoom.us doesn't work with linux - that true? Is there any way to mirror it so people can watch in real time at least?"
22:01 < kanzure> man people are just awful
22:01 < kanzure> why are people so awful?
22:01 < kanzure> i think there's this awfulness force field that permeates the world like aether
22:02 < kanzure> and it just gets strongly concentrated in places
22:02 < delinquentme> kanzure, why is this awful ?
22:03 < nmz787> because they don't just use google hangouts since they're using incompatible/non-free stuff to begin
22:03 < fenn> for one, why would you need a video stream to talk about a journal article
22:03 < kanzure> yes, a video stream is totally stupid for this
22:03 < kanzure> this is the same reason why openworm is evil
22:03 < kanzure> taking up my entire video feed just for your stupid pow-wow is the dumbest thing ever
22:03 < kanzure> i can be in 500 irc channels simultaneously but only one stupid video feed
22:03 < nmz787> I like the idea of video because it seems social, and a lot of ppl can't type too well
22:04 < kanzure> it's completely limiting and unprofessional
22:04 < fenn> two, why is streaming video such a mess of incompatible (non-)standards
22:04 < nmz787> but then audio would cover that
22:04 < nmz787> even just slide synchronization and audio would be nice
22:04 < kanzure> with audio i can only listen to like 5 people talk simultaneously
22:04 < nmz787> screen share or something, but I don't think google does screen share
22:04 < kanzure> text communication works perfectly well and has worked on the interwebs for like 40 years now
22:04 < nmz787> yeah but ppl like more immersive experiences
22:04 < kanzure> no they don't
22:05 < kanzure> they are lying
22:05 < fenn> three, why do you need a website to do video
22:05 < nmz787> wtf why do ppl have big-screen tvs then?
22:05 < nmz787> it's a booming market!
22:05 < kanzure> video is not immersive
22:05 < kanzure> you are looking at someone's face, who the fuck cares what they look like?
22:05 < delinquentme> asian chick on OKC. sez " if the last girl was asian don't message me "
22:05 < delinquentme> I say: "my last partner was a body pillow with a print of shinji on it."
22:05 < delinquentme> she didn't understand.
22:05 < delinquentme> did I just out azn the azn ?
22:06 < nmz787> maybe she doesn't know wtf shinji is
22:06 < nmz787> because she is not that kind of azn
22:06 < fenn> only if you ate roe with it
22:06 < nmz787> roe vs wade
22:07 < kanzure> also you can generally only have one person speaking at a time in a video conference
22:07 < fenn> image of delinquentme and shinji romantically splashing in the waves
22:07 < kanzure> a video conference is like everything that is wrong about audio conferencing, BUT WITH VIDEO
22:07 < kanzure> i can't believe people fall for this
22:08 < fenn> kanzure: but there's a website too! yay!
22:08 < delinquentme> hahahah
22:08 < delinquentme> kanzoo you're visionary :D
22:08 < nmz787> lync can do video + multiple audio at once
22:09 < kanzure> i have trouble conducting 100 simultaneous audio conversations
22:09 < kanzure> and not as much trouble conducting 100 simultaneous text conversations
22:09 < kanzure> bandwidth, yo
22:09 < nmz787> who the hell wants to interact with that many ppl in general at once?
22:09 < nmz787> regardless of the comms channel
22:09 < kanzure> orchestration and delegation
22:09 < kanzure> you aren't the only people i talk with
22:10 < kanzure> how do you think i have this 50,000 people stalkmatrix
22:10 < nmz787> you are the only ppl i talk to
22:10 < nmz787> pretty much
22:10 < kanzure> what
22:10 < kanzure> that's interesting
22:10 < kanzure> i didn't know this
22:10 < nmz787> i am in like 15 other rooms
22:10 < nmz787> but don't chat much unless I have a question
22:10 < fenn> nmz787: arent you in the craft beer capital of the world
22:10 < kanzure> whoops, i meant *why not how, above
22:11 < fenn> i mean, portland seems pretty sociable
22:11 < nmz787> fenn: yeah, the corner stores have high-quality 6-packs for like $7
22:11 < delinquentme> I've got alot of crime ???
22:11 < delinquentme> thats noteworthy
22:12  * delinquentme feels left outs
22:12 < kanzure> oakland's finest?
22:12 < kanzure> represent
22:12 < kanzure> and peace out
22:12 < fenn> oakland has industrial wasteland i think
22:12  * kanzure sleeps
22:13 < fenn> delinquentme: this asian girl who was way too friendly was like "OMG you ate roe, that's so asian, you're more asian than i am!"
22:13 < nmz787> found an elementary school for sale around here
22:13 < nmz787> 10k sq ft for $395k
22:13 < nmz787> with 1.1 acres
22:14 < nmz787> 2 gyms, lunch room, 4 classrooms, some offices
22:14 < nmz787> an acre is enough for a goat or two
22:14 < nmz787> kanzure: ParahSailin what is the easiest/lowest-hanging-fruit for goat-based antibody production?
22:14 < nmz787> I have anyways been looking at buying a goat
22:15 < fenn> the CNC machinist convention is (was) held in an elementary school full of machinery
22:15 < nmz787> (to eat it's baby)
22:15 < ParahSailin> i just sold mine
22:15 < nmz787> ParahSailin: did you just milk it, or generate Ab?
22:15 < ParahSailin> never did anything useful with them
22:16 < nmz787> hopefully they ate your grass/lawn at least
22:16 < fenn> why are goats trendy now? goats are terrible little animals
22:16 < ParahSailin> i dunno, i got them like 2 years before they were apparently trendy
22:16 < fenn> get a pony
22:17 < nmz787> ponies are larger and less efficient digestively
22:17 < nmz787> and also they won't eat brush
22:17 < fenn> so what
22:17 < fenn> a bale of hay is $5
22:17  * nmz787 bale a day keeps the starvation away
22:17 < fenn> also, barley sprouts
22:18 < ParahSailin> in ca a round bale of hay was like $250 this year
22:18 < nmz787> WOW
22:18 < nmz787> I just got to push one of those down a big hill last week
22:18 < fenn> because of the drought?
22:18 < nmz787> it tumbled sideways instead of unrolling cleanly, it was fun to watch
22:18 < nmz787> damn it was heavy though
22:18 < ParahSailin> i would have kept the goats if i had a choice
22:19 < nmz787> moving it was pretty much the limit of my strength, I haven't been active much lately :/
22:19 < nmz787> but it was packed in the trailer sideways as well
22:19 < nmz787> so I had to push it out not roll it
22:20 < fenn> if you had a draft pony you could hitch it up to do the work for you
22:21 < nmz787> you'd also have to train it
22:21 < ParahSailin> why you want goat antibody production
22:21 < ParahSailin> rabbits are like half the size
22:21 < nmz787> oO
22:21 < nmz787> that would work too I guess
22:21 < nmz787> I am not sure which my 'organic' farmer would be less opposed to participating in
22:21 < nmz787> :)
22:22 < nmz787> low-input/non-conventional/traditional
22:22 < nmz787> but what would be the hello world that would be valuable?
22:22 < nmz787> I can't remember what I did with hybridomas
22:23 < ParahSailin> participating?
22:23 < nmz787> it might have just been anti-GFP
22:23 < nmz787> well he would keep watch on them, raise them, tend to them
22:23 < nmz787> (or at least that was my idea)
22:23 < ParahSailin> you need someone else to do that part?
22:24 < nmz787> sure why not?
22:24 < nmz787> that way I can still be programming and doing the higher-level work
22:24 < nmz787> protocols etc
22:25 < nmz787> also I don't have land ;)
22:25 < nmz787> that is the most important part
22:25 < fenn> dont need much land to keep a rabbit
22:25 < ParahSailin> i didnt do hardly shit to take care of the goats
22:26 < nmz787> http://news.yahoo.com/biomedical-goats-arent-typical-livestock-might-save-life-210546503.html
22:26 < nmz787> yeah but I literally cannot have goats where I live now
22:26 < nmz787> rabbits probably though
22:27 < ParahSailin> the perennial story: goats making spider silk in milk
22:27 < nmz787> GMO milk goats would be a stretch goal I guess
22:28 < nmz787> "Goats already produce a number of antibodies in their milk—that’s how a kid first develops its immune system. So scientists just add in one more.
22:28 < ParahSailin> you're gonna have to sacrifice it to extract spleen, so best pick an animal you wouldnt mind killing
22:28 < nmz787> "
22:28 < nmz787> I read that they often do peritoneal (I think) implants, then regular tumor/cyst/bulge extractions from there
22:28 < fenn> nmz787: if you're reading any article talking about "scientists" you're so far from knowing what's necessary you might as well not even have started
22:29 < nmz787> http://www.nature.com/news/discovery-of-goat-facility-adds-to-antibody-provider-s-woes-1.12203
22:29 < ParahSailin> anti-venom is usually done as a polyclonal extract
22:29 < ParahSailin> so i guess you dont have to kill for that
22:29 < nmz787> http://www.newyorker.com/tech/elements/valuable-antibodies-at-a-high-cost
22:30 < nmz787> "Santa Cruz Biotech is owned by John and Brenda Stephenson, who have spent the past fifteen years acquiring forty-four thousand hilly acres along California’s central coast, in hopes of restoring the historic San Juan Ranch to its former peak of nearly sixty thousand acres."
22:30 < nmz787> wow!
22:30 < nmz787> shit, that is another league of acreage
22:31 < nmz787> 841 goats in total
22:31 < nmz787> well, 1/841*(their income per year) = ?
22:32 < nmz787> supposed revenue is 10-25 mil
22:33 < nmz787> "Equine Manager" on their careers page
22:33 < nmz787> I guess they also have a pony
22:33 < fenn> that was just one barn
22:33 < nmz787> "Equine Manager"
22:33 < nmz787> I mean "CRISPR Research Assistant"
22:33 < nmz787> interesting
22:34 < nmz787> "Purifies recombinant antibodies from rabbit sera by affinity column according to method provided by supervisor"
22:35 < ParahSailin> thats odd that they would have recombinant antibody from serum
22:38 < ParahSailin> like, they found a monoclonal producing line, rabbitized it, and then transgened a rabbit with it so they could express it in vivo?
22:41 < nmz787> ah
22:41 < nmz787> sounds plausible
23:20 < delinquentme> WAO.
23:20 < delinquentme> Wao.
23:20 < delinquentme> wao.
23:20 < delinquentme> much graph.
23:20 < delinquentme> very uptime.
23:35 < nmz787> hmm, brlcad has some wavelet stuff
--- Log closed Mon Jan 05 00:00:13 2015