--- Log opened Thu Jan 08 00:00:16 2015
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05:17 < jrayhawk_> Yeah, I'm suprised we haven't gotten some crazy body mod person to remove their own feet and get one of them carbon fiber spring arrangements.
05:18 < kanzure> why the hell would someone think that his shin would be relevant in a conversation about genetics
05:19 < kanzure> someone should plant dynamite up his butt
05:37 < jrayhawk_> anyway, most relevant disease e.g. metabolic syndrome and autoimmunity is driven by one or more of epithelial failure and oxidative stress; inflammation in the former prevents outright sepsis and inflammation in the latter prevents cancer
05:51 < kanzure> hrm
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06:18 < kanzure> various pretty pics http://www.gereports.com/post/107344100845/body-of-knowledge-new-machine-can-see-bones
06:19 < kanzure> oh, it's just xray tomography
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06:47 < heath> nmz787, juri_: also, i forgot about http://dev.stephendiehl.com/hask/
06:48 < heath> .title
06:48 < yoleaux> What I Wish I Knew When Learning Haskell 2.2 ( Stephen Diehl )
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07:04 < Qfwfq> Good resources for learning to read stack traces?
07:35 < heath> Qfwfq: in haskell?
07:35 < heath> s/in/from
07:35 < heath> s/haskell/ghc
07:35 < heath> Qfwfq: from ghc?*
07:36 < Qfwfq> heath: Uh, yeah, incidentally. Some hsc.
07:37 < Qfwfq> I was looking at https://github.com/blitzcode/ghc-stack before something or the other distracted me.
07:38 < Qfwfq> heath: Although I'm thinking of system calls, rather than GHC output.
07:38 < heath> Qfwfq: cool, i was going to recommend the links from that repo
07:40 < heath> i'll have to ask
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08:54 < kragen> fenn: sounds like a cool font
08:55 < kragen> won't let me see it without signing up for an account though
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09:05 < jrayhawk_> 'Bleaching the tooth internally involves drilling a hole to the pulp chamber, cleaning, sealing, and filling the root canal with a rubber-like substance, and placing a peroxide gel or sodium perborate tetrahydrate into the pulp chamber so they can work directly inside the tooth on the dentin layer. In this variation of whitening the whitening agent is sealed within the tooth over a period of some days and replaced as needed, the ...
09:05 < jrayhawk_> ... so-called "walking bleach" technique.' aaaaaaaaaaaaa
09:08 < kanzure> huh, you can convince people to do that to teeth?
09:08 < jrayhawk_> aaaaaaaaaaa
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09:25 < kanzure> i wonder if tooth electrodes would be more productive for data transfer
09:25 < kanzure> er, tooth nerve root electrodes
09:26 < kanzure> microelectrodes, i suppose
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09:28 < delinquentme> kanzure, what?
09:28 < delinquentme> you're trying to write data into the fleshboat?
09:28 < kanzure> earth? i completely deny any involvement i have allegedly had in that planet
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09:34 < kragen> jrayhawk_: someone will no doubt opt for Pistorius feet at some point.  there's already a book about this, although it was more like AT-AT feet
09:35 < kragen> well, of course there are lots of comics about it too
09:35 < kragen> but I think Max Barry's Machine Man went more mainstream than those comics
09:36 < jrayhawk_> if i didn't like bouldering i would be sorta tempted
09:36 < kragen> I heard about it because it cited a kragen-tol post and someone sent me a copy of it
10:15 < nmz787_i> how are less-actuated appendages more helpful? how would you play footsie with your intimate-other?
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10:16 < nmz787_i> "Itching to try the new Intel-boosted BioSport ear buds that use biometric sensors to track your heart rate and power up via your phone's headphone jack?"
10:17 < nmz787_i> huh, I just mentioned this idea after reading about tinitus ... but I think I've read about these earbuds a few months ago too.
10:18 < nmz787_i> hmm, someone is complaining about the wireless version, apparently it has a wire connecting the two earbuds and it annoyingly brushed his shirt collar
10:18 < nmz787_i> (And also that the wireless link started to not work so well after a few days)
10:19 < nmz787_i> $150 http://smsaudio.com/products/biosport-in-ear-wired-with-heart-monitor
10:19 < nmz787_i> (there is also a wired version)
10:19 < delinquentme> how does one value a RSU based on stock price?
10:20 < nmz787_i> strange that their images feature people NOT wearing the earbuds
10:27 < kanzure> delinquentme: by asking a lawyer that you pay
10:36 < nmz787_i> hmm, the BRL-CAD website could be a bit more easier to navigate... just found a model repository! http://more.brlcad.org/
10:36 < sandeep_> how should one store a combination  Ph electrode (sealed & KCl Gel  filled) ? with the same KCl solution filled inside the electrode or with a Ph4 buffer or a mixture of both  and in what proportion ?
10:36 < nmz787_i> with... 9 models in total it seems?
10:37 < kanzure> most of their military equipment models are top secret and off limits :/
10:37 < sandeep_> i have read recommendation for all the three methods online . but which one should be the best ?
10:37 < nmz787_i> sandeep_: "If you do not have electrode storage solution use pH 4 buffer solution. If you have neither electrode storage solution or pH 4 buffer solution you can use pH 7 buffer solution for a short time"
10:37 < fenn> kanzure do you know what happened to the "national cad model repository" or whatever it was called
10:38 < fenn> we had a copy at one point but i forget what happened to it
10:38 < fenn> and then the site went down forever
10:38 < kanzure> predis lost funding for it maybe
10:38 < nmz787_i> sandeep_: ftp://ftp.pasco.com/training/kisd/PASCO%20Training%20Jan%2027%202014/General%20resources/pH%20storage%20solution%20recipe.pdf
10:38 < kanzure> paredis?
10:39 < fenn> i mean, is there still a copy in your possession
10:39 < nmz787_i> that PDF was over-rated: "Add 1g potassium chloride (KCl) per 100mL pH 4 buffer solution. Serve in pH electrode storage bottles"
10:39 < kanzure> oh, probably
10:39 < sandeep_> nmz787_i, i can order the electrolyte (3.3 M KCl in my case) , however i would like to understand what should be used and why ?
10:40 < fenn> oh btw i downloaded the bitcointalk warc, on gnusha
10:40 < kanzure> the >80 gigabyte archive?
10:40 < nmz787_i> "or a 50:50 mixture of 4 M potassium chloride and pH 4 standard buffer"
10:40 < nmz787_i> sandeep_: probably has to do with giving the glass the best condition for A) not degrading B) not clogging with precipitate
10:41 < nmz787_i> where B) can also include preventing biofilm clogs
10:41 < nmz787_i> probably
10:41 < fenn> nmz787_i: i think the brlcad repository was a google summer of code project
10:41 < nmz787_i> kanzure: you have 80GB of CAD models?
10:41 < nmz787_i> kanzure: what format?
10:41 < fenn> no, the bitcointalk archive is 80GB
10:41 < nmz787_i> sandeep_: "KCl and pH 4 buffer provide good conditions for mold to grow. To prevent mold from growing in storage solutions, use up to 4% of sodium benzoate or azide in the reference fill and storage solutions"
10:41 < fenn> the cad models were like 4GB
10:42 < nmz787_i> sodium azide is great shit for preventing growth
10:42 < fenn> also it's explosive yay!
10:43 < fenn> and a severe poison yay!
10:43 < nmz787_i> well that's why it keeps yer chems clean!
10:44 < sandeep_> nmz787_i, why not only KCl and Sodium benzoate ? what role is Ph4 solution playing here ?
10:47 < kanzure> fenn: here's some step files of weapons https://github.com/maduce/defcad-repo
10:47 < kanzure> https://raw.githubusercontent.com/maduce/defcad-repo/master/Firearms/Double_Barrel_Derringer-PaulNoiseLess/Renders/render2.jpg
10:47 < kanzure> osnap that might actually be fucking data be careful
10:47 < fenn> kanzure: i seriously dislike those guys
10:48 < nmz787_i> sandeep_: the glass seems to work better at acidic pH
10:48 < kanzure> well who else is giving you heaps of data
10:48 < fenn> oh wait i thought that was "defense distributed"
10:49 < nmz787_i> sandeep_:  "Most electrodes used today are combination electrodes, that is they have a glass pH electrode and a reference electrode in one body. Glass electrodes perform best when stored in slightly acidic solutions, pH 4 buffer is a good choice. Reference electrodes perform best when stored in the same electrolyte that is immediately inside the reference junction, typically saturated KCl. An optimal storage solution for
10:49 < nmz787_i> combination electrodes is pH 4 buffer (clear not pink) with 225 grams of KCl per liter. Table salt, NaCl, can be used if KCl is not readily available. Distilled or deionized water should never be used as a storage solution unless you like buying new pH electrodes."
10:50 < nmz787_i> "Should my lab electrode be a sealed or refillable electrode? When properly used neither design is inherently more accurate than the other. Sealed electrodes are convenient and suitable for most applications. Refillable electrodes allow the user to fill the reference cell with the solution of their choice, possibly improving the performance compared to a standard KCl electrolyte. The reference electrolyte in the refillable design
10:50 < nmz787_i> can be recharged when it becomes depleted extending the electrodes life. It is a question of convenience vs versatility"
10:51 < nmz787_i> that repo sucks though because it is 'compiled' right? being STL files inside
10:51 < fenn> kanzure some of these things i'm not even sure how it works https://github.com/maduce/defcad-repo/blob/master/Firearms/22_Electric_v5-Proteus/Renders/render3.png
10:52 < nmz787_i> oh I guess some are igs files, which is source right?
10:52 < kanzure> jrayhawk is our resident weapons person, he will arrange a demonstration
10:52 < fenn> it looks like a terrible chunky handgrip and a 1 inch plastic barrel
10:52 < kanzure> step files are sort of like source depending on how pleasant the developers of that particular step exporter were.... sometimes they will just dump stuff into bags of triangles rather than cleanly-designed parametric geometrical part stuff....
10:53 < fenn> step is not source because no cad program uses it as the native format
10:53 < fenn> it's literally an exchange format
10:54 < sandeep_> nmz787_i, " combination electrodes is pH 4 buffer" no its not , it is a combination of two chambers one filled with KCl and other with a Ph 7  buffer  (+ a little kCl)
10:54 < kanzure> oh right, you can't represent boolean intersactions other than actually performing those intersections before serializing to step
10:54 < kanzure> yes, sorry
10:55 < nmz787_i> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/32346798/OpenSourceCad.pdf
10:55 < fenn> a wild pdf appeared!
10:55 < kanzure> nmz787: i know you're on a quest for working open source cad and basically you will not find anything
10:56 < nmz787_i> sandeep_: the two-parts are not exposed to the outside world though I think, one may be inside the other... so you only have 1 choice for storage
10:56 < kanzure> nmz787: i'm sorry that i have not completely written an open source cad kernel with nurbs and parametric awesomeness but it's really hard and lolcad is only partially complete
10:56 < nmz787_i> sandeep_: even if two distinct membranes were exposed... how would you partition the buffer so the correct storage buffer was only on the correct side of the electrode
10:56 < kanzure> verbnurbs is so far the best implementation i have seen, even though it's a pile of javascript
10:57 < sandeep_> nmz787_i, exactly , that is my question
10:57 < kanzure> and cadquery the best api
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10:58 < sandeep_> nmz787_i, that is the reason i wanted to know what one should use Kcl , Ph4 buffer or a mix of both
10:58  * nmz787_i  turtle graphics for  CAD 2015!
10:58 < nmz787_i> sandeep_: those links and quotes all had the answer to that
10:58 < nmz787_i> they all said a mix, along with some biocide
10:58 < nmz787_i> if you have it
10:59 < nmz787_i> and care about your electrode
10:59 < sandeep_> nmz787_i, mix in what proportion ? different sources mention different things
11:00 < nmz787_i> so find the commonality
11:00 < nmz787_i> they were all pretty similar
11:02 < sandeep_> this one is from vernier "Store the electrode in a buffer pH-4/KCl
11:02 < sandeep_> storage solution in the storage bottle. The pH Electrode is shipped in this solution.
11:02 < sandeep_> Vernier sells 500 mL bottles of replacemen
11:02 < sandeep_> t pH Storage Solution (order code PH-
11:02 < sandeep_> SS), or you can prepare additional storage solution by adding 10 g of solid potassium
11:02 < nmz787_i> sandeep_: any differences are likely because of availability of reagents, or specific type of electrode... if you don't know if your electrode is special, it probably is what most other people commonly use
11:02 < sandeep_> chloride (KCl) to 100 mL of buffer pH-4 solution. "
11:03 < sandeep_> nmz787_i,  the electrode is gel filled and its pretty common and dirt cheap as compared to other types except that every one has their own story for storing the electrode
11:04 < nmz787_i> they all work on the same general principal though
11:05 < nmz787_i> so they will share a lot of similarities
11:05 < nmz787_i> I wonder if ion-torrent proton-transistor tech will ever make it to common pH meters
11:06 < nmz787_i> I think that would solve this storage buffer problem
11:06 < nmz787_i> bbl
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11:07 < sandeep_> i found this article very informative     page  44     http://www.hamiltoncompany.com/downloads/E_610277_04%20with%20Pathfinder.pdf , for storage of gel filled combination  electrode it mentions only a 3M Kcl solution and nothing else ,
11:07 < kragen> kanzure: what are the worst problems with FreeCAD?
11:09 < kragen> although I haven't tried to use it yet, it sounds pretty awesome and has impressive screenshot
11:13 < fenn> for a very long time it was impossible to do anything with it beyond make 2 cubes and import step files
11:13 < fenn> since it's based on OCC it probably crashes a lot
11:14 < fenn> apparently people have actually been working on it the past couple years though
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11:23 < sandeep_> ThomasEgi, hi ThomasEgi
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11:24 < juri_> kanzure: i'm officially in charge of implicitcad, for what that is worth.
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11:26 < ParahSailin> just talked to a senior scientist at affy
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11:29 < nmz787_i1> juri_: I compiled your latest implicitCAD a few nights ago and rendered my tobacco device, and it didn't resolve the finest features very well :/
11:33 < sandeep_> nmz787,  i found this article very informative     page  44     http://www.hamiltoncompany.com/downloads/E_610277_04%20with%20Pathfinder.pdf , for storage of gel filled combination  electrode it mentions only a 3M Kcl solution and nothing else .
11:36 < sandeep_>  nmz787_i1
11:36 < juri_> nmz787_i1: are you passing a -r option to it?
11:39 < nmz787_i1> juri_: nope, just extopenscad inp.escad -o out.stl   (I think, not at home)
11:40 < juri_> -r is for manually specifying the render quality.
11:41 < nmz787_i1> fenn: you used openscad for laser_etcher, should I try using that? My model I made for implicitCAD is supposedly like openscad-syntax
11:41 < nmz787_i1> juri_: nah I just specified quality in the file
11:41 < nmz787_i1> I think I had it set to 6000 or 9000 the last time I rendered it
11:41 < juri_> ... how? ;)
11:42 < nmz787_i1> I am not sure how long it took, but I went to bed and it was done in the morning
11:42 < nmz787_i1> $quality = 6000
11:42  * fenn shrugs
11:45 < kragen> juri_: congratulations! how do you feel about it?
11:46 < kragen> I ran into a dissertation a while back about precisely and efficiently ray-tracing implicit surfaces using interval arithmetic a while back
11:46 < kragen> .g dissertation precisely and efficiently ray-tracing implicit surfaces using interval arithmetic
11:46 < yoleaux> https://www.ensta-bretagne.fr/jaulin/these_jorge_flores.pdf
11:46 < kragen> yeah, that one
11:46 < kragen> .t
11:46 < yoleaux> Thu, 08 Jan 2015 19:46:33 UTC
11:47 < kanzure> kragen: the major problem with freecad is that it is highly unmaintainable http://diyhpl.us/wiki/cad/opencascade
11:48 < kanzure> juri_: you should remove the "escad" stuff, it tricked nmz787 into not doing haskell things
11:48 < kanzure> if anything the "escad" stuff should be a separate library
11:48 < kanzure> kragen: freecad's python api is okayish i guess, but really if you want a wrapper around opencascade you should just use pythonocc for now
11:49 < juri_> it's the primary interface, from how u use it. that said, i'm engaged in a dialog with several reprappers about changing the language.
11:49 < juri_> s/u/I/
11:50 < kanzure> kragen: the problem with opencascade is that it's a few million lines of poorly tested source code from the 80s written in russian, french and sometimes english, with variable names like "aMPBLPB" and "aMPBLI"
11:50 < kanzure> juri_: that's so stupid. look, cad does not require the invention of a new language.
11:51 < juri_> kanzure: i'm needing a way to express constraints.
11:51 < kanzure> steal everything from brlcad's constraint solving engine
11:51 < kanzure> and from gecode
11:51 < kanzure> (gecode is not gcode)
11:52 < kanzure> by steal i mean "use that as a dependency"
11:52 < kanzure> and not "reinvent the wheel"
11:53 < kragen> every program is the invention of a new language
11:53 < kragen> or several
11:53 < juri_> it's still a long term problem, at the moment, i'm just fixing bugs.
11:53 < kanzure> kragen: please, what's wrong with just providing a library and providing bindings into whatever languages
11:53 < kanzure> kragen: cad is a hard enough problem, you don't need to couple it into language design problems as well
11:54 < kragen> you probably haven't seen the peter deutssch talk on this
11:55 < kragen> which was a pretty challenging conceptualization when I first saw it
11:55 < kragen> but it's grown on me
11:55 < kanzure> "lots of language design" is not going to help you construct a nurbs intersection algorithm, you reach that point pretty quickly with basically any available programming language
11:55 < kanzure> if you want to make languages, fine, go do it, but don't lie to me and tell me you're writing surface intersection algorithms
11:56 < kanzure> and don't lie to your users
11:57 < kragen> a program is a language whose sentences are the valid runtime states of memory, and whose semantics are transformations between those states
11:57 < kanzure> openscad's language does not actually help you implement a cad engine
11:58 < kragen> I can't tell if you hadn't seen my last message when you wrote that or just didn't understand it
11:59 < kanzure> so there's no other possible alternative whatsoever? haha
12:00 < kragen> but it is probably sort of hopeless because it took me watching Peter Deutsch talk for most of an hour and then thinking about it for months to understand this point of view, and not only is he better at expressing himself than I am
12:00 < juri_> kragen: url?
12:00 < kanzure> can you show me how openscad's shitty attempt at a language (for example, it didn't have variables or conditionals for a long time) helps with surface intersection algorihtms
12:00 < kanzure> *algorithms
12:01 < kanzure> as far as i know, nobody has even implemented cad in openscad's language, so you are totally full of shit and wasting my time
12:01 < kragen> but he wasn't trying to confront a hostile audience, and he put a lot more time into it than I have
12:01 < kragen> kanzure: if you are going to put effort into making yourself more ignorant I cannot stop you
12:01 < kanzure> please, i've been reading the openscad mailing list and following their commits for a few years now
12:01 < kanzure> i would not say i am ignorant on this topic
12:02 < kragen> you have completely failed to understand what I am saying, and so you're going off on an irrelevant tangent
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12:02 < kanzure> "every program is the invention of a new language" is not the topic
12:02 < kragen> juri_: I am trying to find it but this wa a few years sback
12:03 < fenn> reminds me of the terrible pre-behaviorist theories of neuroscience
12:03 < fenn> "everything is language!"
12:05 < kanzure> fenn: i wonder if that argument would still be used if openscad, for whatever insane reason, also implemented a kernel
12:05 < kanzure> i mean an operating system kernel
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12:05 < fenn> what argument
12:05 < kragen> yeah, it turns out that "everything is langauge" works better for linguistic machines like computers than for neuroscience
12:06 < kanzure> just because "everything is language" wont help you find those stolen battle station plans
12:06 < fenn> kragen: it's a worthless model, it doesn't tell you anything you didn't already know
12:06 < kragen> in a sense neither does mathematics
12:06 < kanzure> but that wasn't the topic either
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12:07 < kragen> juri_: sorry, I can't seem to find the talk
12:09 < fenn> interesting commit message: "Upgrading Aleppo Rifle Grenade to version 0.2 by Anonymous."
12:09 < delinquentme> pH = pKa + log_10( 0.025 / 0.0025 )   <<>>   pKa = -(log_10( 0.025 / 0.0025 ) - pH)
12:09 < delinquentme> ^ can someone verify that
12:10 < nmz787_i1> .py import math; print pKa + math.log( 0.025 / 0.0025 ,10)
12:10 < yoleaux> NameError: name 'pKa' is not defined
12:11 < nmz787_i1> .py import math; print 6 + math.log( 0.025 / 0.0025 ,10)
12:11 < yoleaux> 7.0
12:11 < fenn> since it's intended to be made with a 3d printer, probably not actually used in syria
12:11 < nmz787_i1> .py import math;  print  -(math.log( 0.025 / 0.0025, 10 ) - 7.0)
12:11 < yoleaux> 6.0
12:13 < delinquentme> nmz787, why didnt I think of that
12:13 < delinquentme> +1
12:18 -!- the8thbit|work [~8bit@66.186.100.194] has joined ##hplusroadmap
12:18 < the8thbit|work> Hello. I'm trying to mess with openworm, and was directed here from #machinelearning.
12:18 < delinquentme> pH = pKa + log_10( 0.025 / 0.0025 )
12:18 < delinquentme> / subtract pKa both sides
12:18 < delinquentme> pH - pKa = log_10( 0.025 / 0.0025 )
12:18 < delinquentme> / subtract pH both sides
12:18 < delinquentme> - pKa = log_10( 0.025 / 0.0025 ) - pH
12:18 < delinquentme> / divide by -1
12:18 < delinquentme> pka = ( log_10 ( a- / HA) -pH )
12:18 < delinquentme> where'd I go wrong nmz787_i1
12:19 < the8thbit|work> I have NEURON installed on my target machine, but without GUI tools or python. How do I import the openworm connectome?
12:19 < the8thbit|work> My goal is to install openworm on an embedded device, use solar as the 'nose' input, and modified servos for motion
12:20 < delinquentme> install them
12:20 < delinquentme> or get permissions to install them.
12:21 < Viper168> have you considered the dangers of unleashing robot worms on society?
12:21 < the8thbit|work> Viper168: Yes, in fact, the social dangers are my primary motivation. I'm a mad scientist
12:21 < the8thbit|work> delinquentme: that is not helpful
12:22 < Viper168> pandora doesn;t go backin the box man
12:22 < Viper168> *back in
12:22 < kanzure> Viper168: that's off topic
12:22 < kanzure> the8thbit|work: try bugging archels, he might know
12:22 < kanzure> archels: ping
12:22 < Viper168> the best things in life usually are
12:23 < the8thbit|work> kanzure: honestly, questions about robot worm ethics seems more on topic for something called ##hplusroadmap than my original question
12:23 < kanzure> bullshit
12:23 < kanzure> NEURON is like 100x more on topic
12:23 < delinquentme> the8thbit|work, kanz want to unleash pandoras box thats why offtopic
12:23 < delinquentme> the8thbit|work, install it once on a VM
12:23 < kanzure> the8thbit|work: here are things that are on-topic in here http://diyhpl.us/wiki/declaration
12:24 < the8thbit|work> kanzure: fiiiiiiiiiine I'm on topic sheesh
12:25 < the8thbit|work> delinquentme: Install neuron in a vm? Why?
12:25 < delinquentme> or if the UI is web based enable access to the machine from outside
12:25 < kanzure> i don't think delinquentme has actually used NEURON
12:25 < delinquentme> you're not installing it locally for some reason
12:25 < delinquentme> be that sanitization or whatever
12:26 < delinquentme> install it once in sandbox ( VM )
12:26 < the8thbit|work> delinquentme: I'm not installing it locally because the target device does not have a c compiler
12:26 < delinquentme> ....
12:26 < the8thbit|work> so I need to cross compile it
12:26 < kanzure> wait, NEURON is java?
12:26 < kanzure> so you'll have to use jython haha
12:27 < the8thbit|work> delinquentme: I'm not too worried about breaking things. I can always just wipe the file system and follow the docs I wrote to get it back to how it is now if I need to... though I dont understand how NEURON would cause me to need to do that
12:27 < kanzure> anyway this is how you load things https://github.com/pgleeson/TestArea/blob/master/pythonnC/Ex6_LoadCells.py
12:27 < the8thbit|work> kanzure: NEURON is C with an optional python module
12:28 < kanzure> ah, neuroconstruct is java, though
12:28 < kanzure> i see
12:28 < the8thbit|work> Ahh, yeah
12:28 < kanzure> the8thbit|work: you might have to wait a bit for archels
12:28 < the8thbit|work> I dont really understand what neuroconstruct _is_ other than that its some kind of GUI tool for reading and manipulating neuroML files?
12:29 < the8thbit|work> Something tells me I DONT need neuroconstruct on the target machine, though. Which would be a good thing to avoid.
12:30 < kanzure> "what do you mean not all robots have the jvm?"
12:33 < nmz787_i1> the8thbit|work: have you seen this https://github.com/openworm/OpenWorm/wiki/Neuron-Simulation-Engine-Tutorial#running-a-simple-simulation
12:34 < the8thbit|work> nmz787_i1: Thats basically a NEURON hello world. It doesn't load in openworm
12:34 < nmz787_i1> delinquentme: not sure, but ph and pka stuff is all over the nets, simple equations so I think you just need to debug a bit to get what you want. I also don't know what you want
12:35 < nmz787_i1> the8thbit|work: sorry I am just googling things
12:36 < nmz787_i1> the8thbit|work: I don't know the software at all
12:36 < the8thbit|work> nmz787_il: you're good, I appreciate the effort :)
12:36 < nmz787_i1> found a ref to a lego robot using it here supposedly
12:36 < nmz787_i1> http://www.i-programmer.info/news/105-artificial-intelligence/7985-a-worms-mind-in-a-lego-body.html
12:36 < nmz787_i1> which links to the oreilly biocoder thing http://www.oreilly.com/biocoder/?intcmp=il-na-free-lp-na_biocoder_issue_fall_2014_radar_posts
12:36 < nmz787_i1> which you need to register for to get access
12:36 < the8thbit|work> dang
12:36 < the8thbit|work> double dang
12:36 < nmz787_i1> http://www.oreilly.com/biocoder/issues/BioCoderWinter2014.pdf
12:37 < nmz787_i1> does that work?
12:37 < nmz787_i1> I guess they're talking about that or http://www.oreilly.com/biocoder/issues/BioCoderFall2014.pdf
12:37 < the8thbit|work> yes it does work!
12:37 < kanzure> openworm used to be on irc until they decided they preferred looking at their faces on google hangout
12:37 < the8thbit|work> I'm not the first person to try to put a worm brain in a robot body tho :(
12:38 < the8thbit|work> oh well, I can be the second
12:38 < the8thbit|work> kanzure: well thats fucking stupid :(
12:38 < the8thbit|work> irc > google
12:38 < kanzure> have you used NEURON in the past?
12:39 < nmz787_i1> ahh the fall one
12:39 < fenn> the8thbit|work: instead of cutting off the pig's feet why not just install debian on a small low-power ARM computer like for example any smartphone
12:39 < the8thbit|work> fenn: the... pigs feet?
12:39 < fenn> well, anything with java is a pig, obviously
12:39 < nmz787_i1> my farmer was pissed the butcher didn't return the feet
12:39 < nmz787_i1> oh, wait, that was the ears
12:40 < nmz787_i1> the8thbit|work: lego mindstorms is useful though... it was probably my first example of non-game programming that interested me
12:40 < the8thbit|work> fenn: This device was given to me on loan from my workplace. The hardware, kernel variant, and OS ecosystem are all custom built internally. Part of the reason I'm doing this is to familiarize myself with their systems and to impress my boss so that he hopefully moves me into a cooler position
12:41 < fenn> the8thbit|work: cnrun is a "NeuroML-capable neuronal network simulator" with minimal dependencies
12:42 < the8thbit|work> fenn: Is that just an alternative to NEURON?
12:45 < fenn> looks like NEURON is an entire package of tools as well as an API
12:45 < kanzure> yes, it's also a gui
12:45 < kanzure> and.... many other things.
12:47 < nmz787_i1> ordered a 128GB SSD last night for $63 shipped, 42mm long! (for a C720 chromebook)
12:47 < bkero> Mmm, those
12:47 < nmz787_i1> when was the first USB flash drive released?
12:48 < fenn> the8thbit|work: there are at least 3 domains you need to be familiar with, the software stack involved in NEURON, the software stack of your particular robot, and actual neuroscience (so you can understand what openworm is doing)
12:48 < fenn> it's going to be easier to learn them separately than all at once
12:51 < kanzure> he's just looking for the exact api call
12:52 < kanzure> or file loading mechanism
12:56 < the8thbit|work> ^
12:56 < kragen> nmz787_i1: maybe around the time of the Diamond Rio?
12:56 < kragen> although it carefully did not function as a flash drive when it came to being able to read it, because of audio laws
12:56 < the8thbit|work> fenn: I'm not looking to do anything fancy with neuron, just pull in the existing connectome for openworm
13:01 < nmz787_i1> I had a flash-drive based MP3 player that also functioned as a drive... I think I had a 128MB version
13:01 < nmz787_i1> that was in 2001 probably that I got it
13:01 < nmz787_i1> MuVo I think it was
13:02 < the8thbit|work> nmz787: I think my first flash drive was 64mb
13:02 < nmz787_i1> yea Creative MuVo
13:02 < nmz787_i1> if not for cell phones, I would probably still prefer that to an iPod type
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13:03 < nmz787_i1> hmm wiki says they released it in 2003, but that seems too late
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13:06 < fenn> "The first NAND-based removable media format was SmartMedia in 1995"
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13:10 < nmz787_i1> "USB flash drives were invented by Amir Ban, Dov Moran and Oron Ogdan, all of the Israel company M-Systems, who filed US patent 6148354 in April 1999.[8] However, the patent describes a product that has a cable between the memory unit and the USB connector.[citation needed] Released later the same year, IBM Patent Disclosure RPS8-1999-0201 from September 13, 1999 by Shimon Shmueli accurately describes the USB flash drive"
13:10 < fenn> nmz787_i1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PC_Card (PCMCIA) did solid state storage in the 1MB range
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13:10 < fenn> USB is fairly new in computer history
13:11 < nmz787_i1> PCMCIA seems like a bit of a waste, since it's only about half the size of a 1.44MB diskette... though PCI interface would increase speed performance
13:11 < fenn> but it's random access so a zillion times faster for some tasks
13:11 < fenn> also solid state so more reliable
13:14 < fenn> if you're just after something tiny, there were SMD EEPROM chips and PROM chips going back like forever
13:15 < fenn> "The PROM was invented in 1956 by Wen Tsing Chow ... at the request of the United States Air Force to come up with a more flexible and secure way of storing the targeting constants in the Atlas E/F ICBM's airborne digital computer."
13:15 < nmz787_i1> well I did ask (12:47:27 PM) nmz787_i1: when was the first USB flash drive released?
13:16 < fenn> the particular connector is irrelevant
13:16 < nmz787_i1> uh, it was part of the question
13:16 < fenn> fine whatever
13:16 < nmz787_i1> I mean, I enjoy the further backstory
13:19 < nmz787_i1> I wonder if anyone ever developed or even just prototyped a diskette-based flash drive... like the 3.5mm to audio tape converters they sell for cars
13:19 < nmz787_i1> (3.5mm headphone jack)
13:20 < nmz787_i1> hmm, this isn't that https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floppy_disk_hardware_emulator
13:23 < kragen> PCMCIA and CompactFlash (same pinout, different form factor) are still somewhat alive
13:24 < fenn> some PIC microcontrollers still use EPROM and must be "flashed" with UV to erase the memory
13:24 < kragen> nmz787_i1: I understand that some current USB drives actually implement VFAT in software, which is pretty similar ((albeit at a different lecvel) to a diskette-based flassh drive
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13:25 < kragen> this causes problems if you want to reformat them with ext2 variants
13:26 < kragen> a diskette-based flash drive would suffer from those limitations and also the 1.44MB capacity limit
13:27 < fenn> seems like one-time-programmable "vaporize a wire" type memories would last a long time, for archival purposes
13:28 < nmz787_i1> kragen: sure it could be limited to 1.44 MB, or have a microswitch on the edge to cycle through multiple disk images stored within
13:28 < nmz787_i1> I just think it would be cool
13:28 < nmz787_i1> not practical, unless you were dealing with legacy/old equipment
13:29 < nmz787_i1> and couldn't install one of those emulators
13:29 < nmz787_i1> at $20-30 though, that's a pretty good price
13:32 < kragen> it would be cool, yes
13:33 < kragen> fenn: yeah, but I think you can't get them any more
13:33 < kragen> I mean I think you can get compatible parts but under the covers they are EPROMs without the quartz widow
13:33 < kragen> window
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14:29 < kanzure> .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YtMyr_lofA
14:29 < yoleaux> Aquya: Blackcurrant (Napalm Remix) - YouTube
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14:44 < nmz787_i> hmm
14:44 < nmz787_i> .title https://www.google-melange.com/gci/task/view/google/gci2014/5874350083276800
14:44 < yoleaux> Model a gerotor in 3D using BRL-CAD #2 - BRL-CAD
14:44 < nmz787_i> some kind of google-not-summer-of-code
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14:53 < nmz787_i> .title http://repl.it/languages
14:53 < yoleaux> repl.it
14:53 < nmz787_i> 'Online Interpreters in JavaScript. Try Python, Ruby, Scheme, Lua, CoffeeScript and more programming languages'
15:18 < narwh4l> .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOCurBYI_gY
15:18 < yoleaux> Computer program that learns to play classic NES games - YouTube
15:21 < kanzure> there's no good bindings for gameboy emulators :(
15:23 < narwh4l> kanzure, that's why you need a USB NES controller ^_^
15:24 < kanzure> gameboy
15:24 < narwh4l> I'm assuming an NES controller could play through gameboy games
15:24 < kanzure> emulator
15:24 < juri_> or parallel port. decoding and driving SNES and nintendo controllers is easy.
15:24 < kanzure> i need memory access
15:25 < narwh4l> It's funny though, his bot discovers a bug in Super Mario
15:25 < narwh4l> and exploits it to kill gumbas
15:25 < narwh4l> goombas?
15:25 < kanzure> so i can do things like https://github.com/kanzure/pokemon-reverse-engineering-tools/blob/966985411f01b799fa71f4823da7a8cd6d9cc47b/pokemontools/vba/vba.py#L1038
15:25 < narwh4l> ahhh
15:25 < narwh4l> I see
15:27 < kanzure> turns out that the bindings i wrote are all kinds of broke
15:27 < kanzure> because if you replay the same script against the same rom you get non-deterministic results
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15:35 < nmz787_i> these are quite similar concepts: " nucleotide gun made out of a nanotube pointed at the finger domain of some DNA polymerase+* single-polymerase water droplet & add in a single dNTP at a time"
15:37 < kanzure> you are copy/pasting a diff?
15:39 < nmz787_i> yes
15:39 < kanzure> er, why?
15:39 < nmz787_i> i was reading a diff
15:39 < nmz787_i> and was too lazy to do substring replacement with a period
15:40 < kanzure> you were intentionally reading the diff?
15:40 < nmz787_i> yea
15:40 < kanzure> ah
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17:59 < nmz787> you've all heard and mouth-watered over hamburger earmuffs, http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111118014014/simpsons/images/e/eb/Frink.gif    , but now be prepared for the mind-boggling burger-phone    www.bk.com/android
18:00 < kanzure> pickle matrix doesn't work as advertized
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18:21 < kanzure> .wik law of demeter
18:21 < yoleaux> "The Law of Demeter (LoD) or principle of least knowledge is a design guideline for developing software, particularly object-oriented programs." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_Of_Demeter
18:22 < kanzure> .wik information hiding
18:22 < yoleaux> "In computer science, information hiding is the principle of segregation of the design decisions in a computer program that are most likely to change, thus protecting other parts of the program from extensive modification if the design decision is changed." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Information_hiding
18:23 < kanzure> let's see what c2 has to say about this
18:23 < kanzure> http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?LawOfDemeter
18:23 < kanzure> "one never calls a method on an object you got from another call nor on a global object."
18:24 < kanzure> http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?LawOfDemeterIsInvalid "The ultimate proof that LawOfDemeterIsInvalid is that there are mechanical refactorings that transform code that breaks LoD into code that conforms to LoD, but leaves everything untouched with regards to InformationHiding criteria: the same dependencies are there, the same coupling, just the syntactic verification of the code will pass LoD. So clearly LoD fails to distinguish good designs ...
18:25 < kanzure> ... from bad designs. However, LawOfDemeterRevisited tries to make the distinction more meaningful."
18:25 < kanzure> well... alright.
18:28 < nmz787> .title http://m.wpxi.com/ap/ap/health/connecticut-court-to-hear-case-of-teen-refusing-ch/njhGn/
18:28 < yoleaux> Connecticut court to hear case of teen refusing chemotherapy | www.wpxi.com
18:33 < kanzure> "Modifies the string quote rules so that any string made up of digits is serialized with quotes. (The default settings serialize the string "01" with quotes but the string "09" without quotes! (Can you figure out why?))
18:34 < kanzure> well, unrelated but "YAML will parse numbers in the format xx:yy as sexagesimal (base 60)"
18:35 < kanzure> hmm so this only preserves the first comment but not all comments https://pypi.python.org/pypi/rtyaml
18:38 < kanzure> https://github.com/hharte/1dcoinctrl "This project aims to emulate a coin line as required by the older "dumb" (ie, non-COCOT) payphones such as the Western Electric 1D "Fortress" series. This coin line interface connects in between an Asterisk PBX and the payphone. It provide the coin control functionality as well as the ability to determine whether an initial rate has been deposited, and can also perform the "stuck coin" test. In ...
18:38 < kanzure> ... addition, it can count dial pulses to provide out-of-band dial signalling to Asterisk for the rotary-style 1D1 payphones."
18:41 < nmz787> .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=eN48XPEsomE
18:41 < yoleaux> Spring Showers Bring Cowboy Cowards - YouTube
18:41 < nmz787> that's pretty sad
18:42 < nmz787> :(
18:44 < nmz787> wow, this is how the govt catches wild animals for biotesting! https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=v20wExfYvH4
18:44 < nmz787> I would have thought it would be significantly more cunning in the capture mechanism.
18:44 < nmz787> like, use camouflauge traps or something
18:45 < nmz787> or sleeping darts
18:47 < nmz787> hmm, I wonder if simply switching to an electric motor would calm the situation
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18:55 < kanzure> .title
18:55 < yoleaux> Mad Science Gone Buffalo Wild - YouTube
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18:59 < nmz787> intel edison from wiki: It is a board with components on both sides, its size is 35.5 x 25 x 3.9 mm. Main SoC of the board is new Intel Atom "Tangier" (Z34XX), produced with 22 nm, having 2 Atom Silvermont cores running at 500 MHz and one Intel Quark core at 100 MHz (for executing RTOS ViperOS). SoC has 1 GB RAM integrated on package. There is also 4 GB eMMC Flash on board, WiFi/Bluetooth4 and USB controllers. Board has 70-pin dense ...
19:00 < nmz787> ... connector (Hirose DF40) with USB, SD, UARTs, GPIOs. The price of the device is around $50.[13] It should also support both Python and NodeJS development
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19:22 < nmz787> .wik limit of linearity (LOL)
19:22 < yoleaux> "In analytical chemistry, a calibration curve is a general method for determining the concentration of a substance in an unknown sample by comparing the unknown to a set of standard samples of known concentration." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calibration_curve
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21:05 < kragen> nmz787: lcamtuf is using edisons for afl fuzzing
21:07 < nmz787> afl?
21:08 < nmz787> got it http://lcamtuf.coredump.cx/afl/
21:10 < nmz787> I wonder if i can fuzz something like NFC, something more hardware based?
21:26 < kanzure> .g android documentation sdk api nfc
21:26 < yoleaux> https://developer.android.com/guide/topics/connectivity/nfc/
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21:32 < nmz787> or a hackrf targeting a car door/ignition
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23:00 < nmz787> kanzure: what about sketchup? Was there ever buzz about open-source or any nurbs stuff?
23:00 < nmz787> .title http://lcamtuf.coredump.cx/gcnc/ch3/
23:00 < yoleaux> Guerrilla guide to CNC machining, mold making, and resin casting
23:00 < nmz787> "If you just want a simple recommendation - and are willing to spend some money on software to begin with - Rhino 3D is probably the best CAD package that you can get on a hobbyist budget. Students can purchase a fully-featured edu license for under $140, so if you are still in the academia, it would be foolish not to go for it. For mere mortals, there is a heftier price tag attached - $750 - so it's a more difficult call. Still, it's a ...
23:00 < nmz787> ... mature and user-friendly tool that runs well even on low-end systems, and it's just done well - so you probably won't regret it."
23:00 < nmz787> "Now, if Rhino is priced outside your league, many people in the community are also fond of Alibre Design PE, which sells for about $100. Or, if you prefer not to spend any money at all, and can live with a somewhat clunky app, then FreeCAD looks fairly OK for simpler work."
23:01 < nmz787> "Last but not least, cash-strapped DIYers may also want to check out one of the "demo" editions of commercial CAD tools. For example, Creo Elements has a modest limit of 60 parts per document, but otherwise, should do the trick."
23:01 < nmz787> eww
23:02 < nmz787> "Rhino 5.0 is the market leader in industrial design modeling software. Highly complicated shapes can be directly modeled or acquired through 3D digitizers. With its powerful NURBS based engine Rhino 5.0 can create, edit, analyze, and translate curves, surfaces, and solids. There are no limits on complexity, degree, or size."
23:02 < nmz787> "McNeel Rhino 5.0 also supports polygon meshes and point clouds for a complete coverage of geometric data types. With its unparalleled modeling power McNeel Rhino 5.0 lets you focus on designing, not on cumbersome modeling workarounds."
23:04 < kanzure> mcneel/rhino are the people that made opennurbs, which is what brlcad uses
23:04 < kanzure> mcneel ripped out all of the good surface-surface intersection methods from opennurbs so brlcad people had to reimplement them
23:04 < nmz787> "The Rhino Lab license can be used (1) on all the computers in a single classroom or lab and the instructor's computer or (2) as floating license to use Rhino on up to 30 computers in a department (A network and the Zoo is required). Full support from McNeel included"
23:04 < nmz787> $895 education lab license
23:05 < kanzure> opennurbs is open-source
23:05 < kanzure> but does not come with tests
23:05 < nmz787> ah
23:05 < nmz787> hmm
23:05 < kanzure> "modify it if you dare"
23:05 < kanzure> anyway my latest version of lolcad is similar in spirit to a rewrite of opennurbs in python, with tests
23:05 < nmz787> I wonder if rhino could export stuff in nurbs-source
23:06 < kanzure> but with other parts stolen from verbnurbs and brlcad's reimplementation of missing opennurbs features
23:06 < nmz787> that other CAD can use (BRL)?
23:06 < kanzure> brlcad implements many file format compatibility interchange thingies, including the ones provided by opennurbs
23:07 < kanzure> opennurbs source code is okay and worth reading, although it is not very well commented and there's no tests because they are afraid of you stealing their secr1tz
23:07 < nmz787> "COLLADA - .dae (digital asset exchange) files. EMF - Microsoft Enhanced Metafile Format files. GTS - GNU Triangulated Surface files. KMZ - Google Earth KMZ files. KMZ replaces the older KML format. PDF - Portable Document Format files. SKP export - SketchUp files. X3DV - Web3D Consortium X3D files. XAML - 3‑D meshes to an Extensible Application Markup Language file for SilverLight."
23:07  * kanzure sleeps
23:07 < nmz787> 3dm, dwg
23:07 < nmz787> iges
23:07 < nmz787> err, too many https://www.rhino3d.com/new/compatibility/
23:08 < nmz787> "FBX export - Support for NURBS curves, surfaces, and trimmed surfaces. Support for V6 and V7."
--- Log closed Fri Jan 09 00:00:17 2015