--- Log opened Wed Feb 18 00:00:57 2015
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06:11 < kanzure> hmm
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06:53 < kanzure> .title http://www.mmbios.org/index.php/computational-methods-for-spatially-realistic-microphysiological-simulations-2015
06:53 < yoleaux> Computational Methods for Spatially Realistic Microphysiological Simulations 2015
06:53 < kanzure> ah, mcell
06:53 < kanzure> http://bionetgen.org/index.php/Main_Page
06:54 < kanzure> "software for the specification and simulation of rule-based models of biochemical systems, including signal transduction, metabolic, and genetic regulatory networks" meh
06:54 < kanzure> ehh "MCell (Monte Carlo cell) is a program that uses spatially realistic 3-D cellular models and specialized Monte Carlo algorithms to simulate the movements and reactions of molecules within and between cells—cellular microphysiology."
06:56 < kanzure> archels: show me some recent NEURON successors. preferably ones with better names.
07:01 < archels> no can do
07:01 < archels> things like PSICS/STEPS/MCell are relatively specialised and have substantially different goals from NEURON
07:02 < archels> as far as succession goes, the main development is in specification languages (NeuroML/LEMS)
07:03 < archels> oh and Python wrappers to hide ugliness of NEURON, like PyNN
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07:04 < archels> oh, perhaps MOOSE could be a contender for the "successor" title
07:09 < kanzure> psics/mcell/neuron have all been around forever
07:09 < kanzure> seems unlikely that they got everything right the first time around?
07:10 < archels> paperbot: http://link.springer.com/protocol/10.1007%2F978-1-59745-525-1_9
07:10 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/91dac1482c5d746ead63f5bc719ee8ed.txt
07:10 < archels> NEURON at least is pretty mature, but it's also an obvious cul-de-sac
07:17 < kanzure> hm.
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07:34 < archels> this I was quite excited about when I first saw it, but afaik it's closed source/closed dev - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfLzp-W4T8c
07:34 < archels> although it still seems to be active
07:36 < kanzure> .title
07:36 < yoleaux> James Kozloski - The Neural Tissue Simulator: An Ultrascalable Infrastructure for Specifying [...] - YouTube
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08:39 < kanzure> hi dendritic
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08:58 < dendritic> 'ello
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09:23 < cluckj> nmz787, dexcom is coming out with a receiver that can transmit on bluetooth in the next month or so
09:23 < cluckj> kinda negates that hardware hack so both :( and :D
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09:24 < nmz787_i> heh
09:25 < nmz787_i> but how much $$
09:26 < cluckj> probably free for me since I just got a new receiver
09:26 < nmz787_i> cool
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09:26 < nmz787_i> any 'old' sensors? it would be fun to try and MITM the non-bluetooth signal
09:27 < nmz787_i> I know they should have some sort of security
09:27 < cluckj> $200
09:27 < cluckj> yes-ish
09:27 < cluckj> there's a reusable transmitter module that clips into the disposable sensor probe
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09:29 < cluckj> sweet, I'm eligible for the free upgrade
09:30 < cluckj> the app is only for the iphone right now so there's still some fun hack possibilities
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10:21 < justanotheruser> Is there any way to record a state with a cam system?
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10:21 < kanzure> how much time have you spent looking at clockwork?
10:22 < justanotheruser> an intermediate state I mean, not an input or output
10:22 < justanotheruser> Not much
10:23 < justanotheruser> I don't see why a clock would need to record a state though
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10:25 < kanzure> one of the things on my eventual-todo list is a thing to convert small c programs to mechanical motion
10:26 < kanzure> large-scale translation of code into mechanical contraptions is, for whatever reason, still lacking
10:27 < justanotheruser> I'm planning on printing some cams
10:27 < justanotheruser> hopefully I can get them to do something interesting
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11:19 < archels> "The Babybot Challenge" -- http://www.icdl-epirob.org/
11:19 < archels> prizes!
11:26 < nmz787_i> kanzure: what was the link you posted, something about 'information has a universal length of time to live'
11:28 < kanzure> nmz787_i: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/e2eeadf8dbaf1a207adaaac0659729e8.pdf
11:28 < kanzure> ".. suggests that searching for a storage medium that lives forever may be a waste of energy, because the laws of physics themselves limit the amount of time that any information can be kept."
11:28 < kanzure> .g negentropism
11:28 < yoleaux> http://www.orionsarm.com/eg-article/46cf7ca0904a7
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11:42 < justanotheruser> thoughts on the The Voluntary Human Extinction Movement
11:43 < maaku> justanotheruser: no joke?
11:43 < maaku> first thought: what. the. fuck.
11:43 < maaku> second thought: please go ahead. remove yourselves from the genepool.
11:44 < justanotheruser> mostly joking
11:44 < justanotheruser> I agree with their goal (a healthy earth), but not their method of getting there (ending humanity)
11:45 < justanotheruser> humanity is probably the coolest thing that's happened in the nearest few light years
11:52 < cluckj> lol
11:52 < cluckj> some people need better hobbies
11:52 < archels> non sequitur
11:53 < cluckj> nope
11:53 < archels> “May we live long and die out”
11:54 < archels> it's obviously just a publicity stunt
11:54 < archels> but anything that gets overpopulation on the agenda, I suppose
11:55 < kanzure> "Membership is mandatory."
11:55 < kanzure> not sure what they're driving at
11:57 < archels> overpopulation is a real and present threat to longevity of the human species on this planet
11:58 < archels> so anything that gets people thinking about that, or doing something about it is a good thing, I suppose
12:03 < cluckj> ooo mandatory membership, that sounds totally harmless
12:04 < maaku> archels: over population is not, never has been, and never will be a problem
12:04 < cluckj> ^
12:04 < maaku> not in the malthusian sense
12:05 < nmz787_i> idk, lotta ppl takin up the wildlands is annoying at least
12:07 < nmz787_i> and who's to say cats, for example, wouldn't just go and 'mess up the world' after humans die off
12:07 < kanzure> population is going down anyway, look at the birth rates nobody's getting laid
12:08 < nmz787_i> hah, go to bangladesh and try thinking that sanely
12:08 < kanzure> "oh my god a certain geographical region has a different trend somebody call the president"
12:09 < nmz787_i> do they even have a president in bangladesh?
12:09 < kanzure> i would not be surprised to learn that there are regions that are not experiencing that trend
12:09 < nmz787_i> or reliable phones?
12:09 < maaku> nmz787_i: in every developed country population growth drops to approx zero
12:09 < kanzure> well they most certainly should if they don't
12:09 < kanzure> i nominate nsh
12:09 < nmz787_i> maaku: yeah but there are most population outside the developed countries
12:10 < nmz787_i> and also forces in the world that want to reverse such development
12:10 < maaku> nmz787_i: are they going to stay undeveloped forever?
12:10 < maaku> nmz787_i: hah i don't believe that
12:10 < nmz787_i> who knows
12:11 < nmz787_i> umm, you don't believe in the 'cults' as I'll call them that want to populate the world so their cult can rule?
12:11 < cluckj> what counts as "developed" anyway
12:11 < kanzure> dyson spheres
12:11 < kanzure> computronium planets
12:11 < justanotheruser> population is going up for now
12:11 < kanzure> colloidal particle telescopes
12:11 < justanotheruser> maybe in 35 years it will go down
12:12 < kanzure> healthy planetary conquest industry
12:12 < kanzure> anything less is underdeveloped
12:12 < cluckj> kanzure, ruh roh
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12:13 < nmz787_i> 'think of the wheat-babies'
12:14 < kanzure> elon's got it all wrong, you don't want to be first you want to be second to be the first conqueror of mars
12:14 < kanzure> that way he puts all the good stuff there first
12:15 < nmz787_i> re UV/VIS spectrometers "We custom build each of the units, so we don't have them in stock per-se, but I can send you an invoice for one if you like.  The unaligned DIY kits are $300, and the aligned units are $500.  The lead time is approximately 2 weeks."
12:16 < nmz787_i> http://www.science-surplus.com/products/spectrometers    even though it says $200 there
12:24 < nmz787_i> "The prices are the same as listed on the website, but you requested a quote for the 600/900 l/mm gratings installed in the spectrometer.  The 1800 l/mm kit is $200.  The others are more expensive because we need to purchase a replacement grating and then install it."
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12:32 < justanotheruser> I actually think underpopulation is a bigger issue than overpopulation. At some point we will probably be artificially spawning babies
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12:36 < kanzure> what is your concern regarding underpopulation?
12:39 < nmz787_i> if there was an underpopulation problem, I think i'd have had kids starting 10+ years ago
12:48 < nmz787_i> how can i call a command many times subsequently, like 50 or 100 times, until they all complete or unless one has an error?
12:48 < nmz787_i> I think I am having a non-deterministic bug, but can't tell
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12:53 < nmz787_i> hmm, subprocess returncode I guess is what i'll use
12:55 < justanotheruser> kanzure: the species dying off
12:55 < justanotheruser> don't put all your eggs in one basket
13:01 < heath> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_video_game_crash_of_1983
13:06 < justanotheruser> was a massive recession of the video game industry that occurred from 1983 to 1985. Revenues had peaked at around $3.2 billion in 1983,[2] then fell to around $100 million by 1985
13:06 < justanotheruser> There were several reasons for the crash, but the main cause was saturation of the market.
13:06 < justanotheruser> wouldn't saturation effect profits, not total revenue of the industry?
13:11 < kanzure> justanotheruser: whether the population goes up or down does not seem to materially impact eggs in baskets distribution or ratio
13:14 < justanotheruser> kanzure: women are baskets and eggs are eggs. Less baskets is more risk of not having any eggs
13:14 < cluckj> what
13:15 < kanzure> hahaha i'm with cluckj on this one
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13:17 < kanzure> justanotheruser: the planet is the basket, not women
13:18 < cluckj> this is a pretty abberant metaphor
13:19 < cluckj> aberrant, even
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13:41 < justanotheruser> kanzure: baskets can't nest?
13:42 < kanzure> i'm curious, what is it that you think we're talking about at the moment?
13:42 < justanotheruser> farming techniques?
13:43 < justanotheruser> either that or preventing the death of humanity by having a higher population of women in case some of those women die
13:43 < kanzure> usually the eggs in basket stuff is regarding planetary destruction due to stuff like asteroid impacts
13:44 < justanotheruser> yes, baskets can nest
13:45 < kanzure> i see your point though, the "don't put all your eggs in one basket" analogy is a little awkward because humans carry eggs
13:45 < justanotheruser> yes, the fem- prefix should just be baske-
13:46 < kanzure> did you get the new drugs already?
13:47 < cluckj> hah
13:47 < justanotheruser> yeah, they're slightly better
13:48 < kanzure> which manufacturer?
13:48 < justanotheruser> teva
13:49 < justanotheruser> I've heard the brand name is better, but this is better than the other guys
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13:54 < kanzure> yep
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15:03 < streety> why are you getting drugs from a sandal company?
15:05 < kanzure> perhaps you should ask instead why a sandal company is in the pharmaceutical industry
15:06 < nmz787> really, they are the same company?
15:07 < streety> I don't think so
15:07 < nmz787> :P
15:07 < kanzure> "On December 23, 2008, Teva acquired Barr Pharmaceuticals for US$7.5 billion, making Barr and Pliva (which Barr bought earlier) part of Teva."
15:08 < kanzure> ah perhaps this explains why barr and teva seem to make the same pill
15:08 < nmz787> thems the good ones
15:08 < streety> teva the sandal company is owned by deckers
15:08 < nmz787> 'BARRing negative effects from your life'
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18:38 < kanzure> https://www.fightaging.org/archives/2013/12/shutting-down-open-cures.php
18:39 < kanzure> "Ethical objections to engineered longevity are all weak in comparison to the massive and ongoing harm caused by aging"
18:40 < kanzure> "There is little writing on these research results, and no good sources other than the original papers-most of which are behind journal paywalls. What hope is there for the proper transmission of knowledge to the circle of clinical developers when the researchers have no incentive to explain their work, due to the FDA roadblock, and no other group seems to be picking up the slack? Potentially viable medical technologies are lying fallow, ...
18:41 < kanzure> ... buried in the output of the scientific community, and left unexplained for the rest of us."
18:41 < kanzure> "The flow of knowledge from the research community is vital, but as described above there exists a clearly identifiable gap in that process: science that might lead to therapies for aging exists in many different forms, but there is little to no documentation of it. Thus there is little in the way of a roadway to systematically bring this knowledge out to the circles of life science students, entrepreneurs, clinical developers, and other ...
18:41 < kanzure> ... interested parties. Those groups, in turn, have nothing to work with when it comes to educating the medical community and public at large. This, in a nutshell, is the problem. The US may be closed to development of longevity-enhancing biotechnologies by regulatory fiat, but much of the rest of the developed world remains open for business in this field-if the developers in those countries knew more about the work that has taken place ...
18:41 < kanzure> ... and presently lies largely buried."
18:41 < kanzure> ehh i don't really buy his promotion argument here, it's not a matter of promoting the ideas. no amount of writing and yelling at people about them will make them materialize.
18:45 < cluckj> hah
18:46 < kanzure> my reply "Unfortunately if everyone had this attitude nobody would get anything done. Instead of promoting the migration of information to lay people-- who by definition are uninterested in taking on this mission for you--, you should be promoting the migration of people towards building these technologies (perhaps by participating yourself-- you can write software, so write software to distribute papers better, or whatever can alleviate ...
18:46 < kanzure> ... inefficiency in the current paradigms). Even just one or two people actively working on technology, especially outside of traditional academia, is a tremendous improvement over the current situation."
18:46 < kanzure> i could have wordsmithed that better, but screw it
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18:50 < cluckj> but science is woooorrrrkkkkk
18:50 < cluckj> whining is sooooo much easierrrrr
18:50 < kanzure> accurate whining is quite difficult
18:52 < cluckj> yes
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--- Log closed Thu Feb 19 00:00:58 2015