--- Log opened Thu Feb 26 00:00:03 2015 --- Day changed Thu Feb 26 2015 00:00 < nmz787> i see keyword 'brushes' 00:04 < nmz787> ah 00:04 < nmz787> .wik Electronic correlation 00:04 < yoleaux> "Electronic correlation is the interaction between electrons in the electronic structure of a quantum system." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_correlation 00:04 < nmz787> i thin kthat is what I mean by 'electronics' 00:06 < nmz787> paperbot: http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jp505105a 00:06 -!- FourFire [~FourFire@185.7.192.138] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:07 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/In-Silico%20Design%20of%20a%20DonorAntennaAcceptor%20Supramolecular%20Complex%20for%20Photoinduced%20Charge%20Separation.txt 00:07 < nmz787> http://diyhpl.us/~nmz787/pdf/In-Silico_Design_of_a_DonorAntennaAcceptor_Supramolecular_Complex_for_Photoinduced_Charge_Separation.pdf 00:09 < nmz787> the name COSMO is so cool. 00:10 < nmz787> .title http://arxiv.org/abs/1306.2627 00:10 < yoleaux> [1306.2627] Electronic structure and charge transfer excited states of a multichromophoric antenna 00:11 < nmz787> https://www.ocb.ch.tum.de/fileadmin/w00bes/www/_migrated_content_uploads/1-deGroot_AnnuRevBiophys13.pdf 00:11 < nmz787> Solid-State NMR of Nanomachines Involved in Photosynthetic Energy Conversion 00:13 < nmz787> "Many scientists believe that it will be possible to apply the principles of light harvesting, charge separation, and multielectron catalysis in photosynthesis to the chemical design and synthesis of responsive matrices for the production of hydrogen- or carbon-based solar fuel on a large scale, using water and CO2 as raw materials (53). Natural photosynthesis converts the equivalent of 100–200 TW of power, which is about ten times more ... 00:13 < nmz787> ... than the ∼14 TW that is currently dissipated by our economies." 00:19 < nmz787> yoink http://diyhpl.us/~nmz787/pdf/Solid-State_NMR_of_Nanomachines_Involved_in_Photosynthetic_Energy_Conversion.pdf 00:20 < genehacker> there are also molecular logic gates based around something like that 00:20 < genehacker> they aren't very useful thought 00:22 < nmz787> Quantum Simulation Study of DNA nucleotide Thymine for use 00:22 < nmz787> in Molecular Devices http://www.iosrjournals.org/iosr-jece/papers/vol1-issue1/A0110106.pdf 00:24 < nmz787> paperbot: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1560/IJC.49.2.149/abstract 00:25 < nmz787> http://www.victoria.ac.nz/raman/publis/pablo/pdf/2010_amjp_78_300.pdf 00:25 < nmz787> 'Electronic structure, Raman tensors, and resonance phenomena in a simple molecular model' 00:25 < nmz787> "II. THE TOY MOLECULE" 00:27 < nmz787> no one tells the run-time of the DFT it seems 00:28 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/789a13a9cadc4e483c5c49355a7aa4b3.txt 00:31 < nmz787> http://diyhpl.us/~nmz787/pdf/A_Quantum_Chemistry_Study_of_Binding_Carotenoids_in_the_Bacterial_Light-Harvesting_Complexes.pdf 00:31 < genehacker> yeah, because it takes a long time 00:31 < nmz787> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3199570/pdf/nihms-189250.pdf 00:31 < paperbot> http://libgen.info/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1021%2Fja803074y 00:31 < genehacker> it's probably why no one has done good quantum chemistry of diamonoid mechanosynthesis yet 00:31 < nmz787> 'Differential Tuning of the Electron Transfer Parameters in 1,3,5- Triarylpyrazolines: A Rational Design Approach for Optimizing the Contrast Ratio of Fluorescent Probes' 00:33 < nmz787> http://www.rfreitas.com/Nano/McK68141.pdf 00:33 < nmz787> 'Challenges of Molecular Nanotechnology for Space Exploration' 00:34 < nmz787> http://www.rfreitas.com/Nano/JNNDimerTool.pdf 00:35 < nmz787> 'Theoretical Analysis of a Carbon-Carbon Dimer Placement Tool for Diamond Mechanosynthesis' 00:37 < nmz787> hmm, http://www.vasp.at/ 00:37 < nmz787> .wik Vienna Ab-initio Simulation Package 00:37 < yoleaux> "The Vienna Ab-initio Simulation Package, better known as VASP, is a package for performing ab initio quantum mechanical molecular dynamics (MD) using either Vanderbilt pseudopotentials, or the projector augmented wave method, and a plane wave basis set." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vienna_Ab-initio_Simulation_Package 00:38 < nmz787> "A slightly lower level of theory (in which the geometry is optimized at HF/3-21G∗) has a mean absolute deviation of 0.14 eV" 00:38 < nmz787> "Thermal noise at room temperature is about 0.02 eV; in conventional positionally uncontrolled chemistry, errors on the order of 0.14 eV might well influence reaction rates and the dominant reaction pathway taken when multiple alternative reaction pathways are present. H" 00:40 < nmz787> "The DCB6-X family of dimer placement tools, for X = Si, Ge, Sn, and Pb, should be stable in a vacuum when used at room temperature, and possibly at significantly higher temperatures." 00:41 < nmz787> we'd better start computing now if we ever want to make any progress since we don't have supercomputers 00:41 * nmz787 sleeps 00:45 -!- Beatzebub__ [~beatzebub@d162-156-12-57.bchsia.telus.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:48 -!- Beatzebub_ [~beatzebub@d162-156-12-57.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:58 -!- Viper168_ [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:59 -!- genehacker [~chatzilla@c-98-232-239-159.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:00 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:03 -!- Viper168_ is now known as Viper168 01:10 -!- _TK_ [~TK@82.131.66.127.cable.starman.ee] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:01 -!- _TK_ [~TK@82.131.66.127.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:15 -!- xekc [~xekc@90.220.110.103] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:22 -!- xekc [~xekc@90.220.110.103] has quit [Quit: xekc] 02:46 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:51 < archels> .gc "deep.learning" 02:51 < yoleaux> archels: Sorry, that command (.gc) crashed. 02:52 < archels> frack 02:52 -!- FourFire [~FourFire@185.7.192.138] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:52 -!- mf1008 [~mf1008@ec2-54-93-197-89.eu-central-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:52 -!- FourFire [~FourFire@185.7.192.138] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:54 < archels> hmmm this article takes "supervised training on millions of object-labelled images" to be a defining property of deep learning 02:57 < FourFire> nmz787, on the contrary: arxiv.org/pdf/astro-ph/9912202 02:58 < FourFire> set an end date, precommit to actually reach it, and spend the time in between optimizing your code and earning more money 03:02 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:15 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:34 < archels> I am apparently having lunch with Stefan Sorgner in 5 minutes 03:34 < archels> any pointed questions I should ask him? 03:40 -!- _TK_ [~TK@85.253.74.156.cable.starman.ee] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:02 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:08 -!- xekc [~xekc@90.220.110.103] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:19 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:40 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r167-57-70-101.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:47 < archels> kanzure: to come back to that question of how to define complexity, these guys define it as 1/λ. where λ is a regularisation parameter 04:48 < archels> I guess that makes sense as regularisation is considered a penalty for complexity 05:02 -!- xekc [~xekc@90.220.110.103] has quit [Quit: xekc] 05:29 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:45 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:56 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:00 -!- abetusk [~abe@209-6-202-176.c3-0.smr-ubr2.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:02 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:25 -!- maaku [~quassel@50-0-37-37.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 06:25 -!- maaku [~quassel@50-0-37-37.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:25 -!- maaku is now known as Guest58568 06:31 < kanzure> sup 06:49 -!- Proteus [~Proteus@unaffiliated/proteus] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:50 -!- Proteus1 [~Proteus@67-3-189-173.omah.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:56 < archels> philosophers. I am surrounded by them 06:58 < kanzure> here's a trick: call them a p-zombie and say "you can't explain that" three times fast. they will vanish in a smokey poof of indignation. 06:59 < cluckj> the very existence of philosophers negates solipsism 07:01 < kanzure> cluckj: perhaps your next thesis should be about the half-life of bad philosophy. how long will i have to wait for all the bad philosophy to die off? 07:02 -!- Viper168_ [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:02 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:10 < JayDugger> Good morning. 07:13 < cluckj> kanzure, noooooope 07:13 < cluckj> book #2 might be about anti-vaccinators 07:14 < kanzure> uh, why? 07:15 < cluckj> the rhetoric is interesting 07:16 < cluckj> I was also thinking about diabetes biohackers 07:18 < chris_99> anyone need a new head - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2969375/Could-doctors-REALLY-transplant-head-body-2-years-time-Italian-surgeon-confident-perform-7-5milllion-operation-help-paralysed-patients-like-Christopher-Reeve.html 07:18 < cluckj> the rhetoric that I find interesting in anti-vax and diy bio was that both groups get labeled as "a threat to the social body" 07:18 < cluckj> which I find to be a really troublesome and crypto-fascist metaphor 07:18 < kanzure> anti-vax is too broad in that context though 07:19 < cluckj> yeah 07:19 < cluckj> I wouldn't even do any research on it for like 5 years, so I'm not too concerned with the specifics right now :) 07:19 < kanzure> anti-vax is like 90% parents that are upset with themselves and the world, and then some subset that are interested in pondering the great questions of the universe like "why should the government do x" 07:19 < cluckj> lol 07:21 < cluckj> http://gas.sagepub.com/content/early/2014/05/09/0891243214532711.full.pdf+html?ijkey=fUokCLKdAFzI2&keytype=ref&siteid=spgas 07:21 < paperbot> http://libgen.info/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1177%2F0891243214532711 07:21 < cluckj> thanks paperbot 07:22 < cluckj> that's a pretty interesting article about anti-vax 07:27 < cluckj> the visceral anti-anti-vax stuff is what I find more interesting and a little bit scarier 07:42 < FourFire> chris_99, meh, I'll check back in 3.5 years, the likely time it will actually take to do such a procedure 07:43 < FourFire> 3-5* 07:44 < kanzure> cluckj: "i object to everyone incubating viruses and microbes that might later infect me. therefore i demand that everyone becomes an emulation in the computational butt cloud." 08:01 < cluckj> hah 08:07 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:07 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:22 -!- FourFire [~FourFire@185.7.192.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:39 < archels> .title http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v518/n7540/full/nature14236.html 08:39 < yoleaux> Human-level control through deep reinforcement learning : Nature : Nature Publishing Group 09:03 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r167-57-70-101.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:06 < kanzure> http://i.imgur.com/MKMgbiM.png 09:08 -!- sheena [~home@S0106c8be196316d1.ok.shawcable.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:09 -!- nmz787_i [~nmccorkx@134.134.137.71] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:46 < nmz787_i> archels: presumably your algorithm had file-based intermediates so you could swap hardware and get the best of both worlds. But I guess that paper was talking about reducing cost, not reducing overall time. 09:48 -!- delinquentme [~delinquen@74.61.157.78] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:31 -!- Guest58568 is now known as maaku 10:39 < nmz787_i> paperbot: http://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlelanding/2014/lc/c4lc00833b#!divAbstract 10:40 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/On-demand%20control%20of%20microfluidic%20flow%20via%20capillary-tuned%20solenoid%20microvalve%20suction.pdf 10:41 -!- andytoshi [~andytoshi@unaffiliated/andytoshi] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:42 < nmz787_i> "The suction effect was innovatively employed as a stable and controllable driving force for the manipulation of the microfluidic system by connecting a piece of capillary between the microvalve and the microfluidic chip, which caused significant hydrodynamic resistance differences among the solenoid valve ports and changed the flowing mode inside the valve. The volume of sucked liquid could be controlled from microliters even 10:42 < nmz787_i> down to picoliters either by decreasing the valve energized duration (from a maximum energized duration to the valve response time of 20 ms) or by increasing the inserted capillary length (i.e., its hydrodynamic resistance). Several important microfluidic unit operations such as cell/droplet sorting and on-demand size-controllable droplet generation have been demonstrated on the developed platform and both simulations and 10:42 < nmz787_i> experiments confirmed that this platform has good controllability and stability" 10:51 -!- strangewarp [~strangewa@c-76-25-206-3.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 10:55 -!- andytoshi [~andytoshi@wpsoftware.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:15 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:16 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:21 -!- bkero [~bkero@osuosl/staff/bkero] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:21 -!- bkero [~bkero@216.151.13.66] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:23 -!- strangewarp [~strangewa@c-76-25-206-3.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:26 < delinquentme> UH. 11:26 < delinquentme> kanzure, 11:26 < delinquentme> you. need to watch Full mejal alchemist 11:26 < delinquentme> RULF. new contracts too 11:36 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:44 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:52 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:54 < kanzure> full metal is boring 11:56 -!- FourFire [~FourFire@host-37-191-200-199.lynet.no] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:59 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:02 < maaku> http://www.fastcompany.com/3042861/the-y-combinator-chronicles/the-secret-million-that-y-combinator-invests-in-all-its-startups 12:02 < maaku> .title 12:02 < yoleaux> The Secret Million That Y Combinator Invests In All Its Startups | Fast Company | Business + Innovation 12:02 < maaku> huh bad title. half about transcriptic, half about yc 12:02 < maaku> delinquentme: why FMA? 12:03 < kanzure> just a whiney story about state-sponsored alchemy 12:04 < chris_99> whats the full-metal part refer to 12:04 < maaku> yeah i saw it when i was younger. interesting, but could have been much better 12:05 < maaku> chris_99: the main character's brother, who had his soul affixed to a suit of armor 12:05 < maaku> or the main character who had a mechanical arm, i don't remember 12:05 < chris_99> aha, cheers. It's in Japanese i'm assuming 12:05 < maaku> yes 12:06 < maaku> a Full-Metal Rationalist would be interesting (hint hint yudkowski) 12:11 -!- augur [~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:12 < delinquentme> maaku, because i love the song at the ending credits 12:12 -!- augur [~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:12 < maaku> hah ok 12:12 < maaku> which one? don't they change it up? 12:15 < cluckj> kanzure, "working knowledge"? 12:15 < kanzure> what about it? 12:16 < kanzure> it's like telling someone you know a secret, and they can't really verify it 12:16 < kanzure> it's a principal agent problem 12:16 < kanzure> and probably something about lemons and markets 12:16 < cluckj> wat 12:16 < kanzure> expertise? 12:16 < kanzure> what are we talking about? 12:17 < cluckj> yes 12:17 < kanzure> claims of expertise are very difficult or impossible to verify 12:18 < kanzure> and verification itself is all sorts of broken too 12:18 < cluckj> I'm trying to come up with a phrase that isn't nearly as pedantic and goofy as "expertise, as a verb" 12:18 -!- FourFire [~FourFire@host-37-191-200-199.lynet.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:19 < kanzure> adroiting 12:20 < cluckj> the problem I'm having writing this bit is that there's a whole language attached to "expertise" that is difficult to avoid if I keep saying expertise 12:20 < cluckj> hmm 12:21 < kanzure> if the concept is wrong for public communication (eg., it doesn't work: no good reasons to tell people you are an expert, really), then maybe it also has no application in the other way you are attempting to write about 12:26 -!- FourFire [~FourFire@host-37-191-200-199.lynet.no] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:27 < cluckj> it's a very entrenched concept, and I can't ignore it because it's a part of what my discipline talks about 12:28 < cluckj> there's a lot of power dynamics in expertise/authority that pervade how american society works, much of which is invisible 12:30 < cluckj> the power, not american society 12:41 < kanzure> sounds like people are really upset by the idea that people can do things without institutional authority 12:41 < kanzure> why is it so surprising though 12:42 < cluckj> yep 12:42 < cluckj> because it undercuts institutions 12:43 < kanzure> that's not surprising though 12:43 < kanzure> the ability for institutions to do things is only because it is possible for individuals to do things, not the other way around 12:44 < cluckj> the other way around is how the institutionally-entrenched think 12:45 < cluckj> like you can't do medical research, or any real science at all, without a million dollar budget 12:46 < cluckj> and to handle that size of a budget you need an institution, QED you can only do things in institutions 12:47 < kanzure> heh, the weird thing is that a million bucks is no big deal, hell i know a few people in here who have signing authority for that much in their day job, easily 12:47 < kanzure> although probably not single check signing authority for that amount of course :) 12:47 < cluckj> right 12:47 < cluckj> I bet that job is in some kind of institution though :P 12:48 < kanzure> huh? 12:48 < kanzure> why would that matter? 12:49 < kanzure> i was trying to emphasize the difference there, where it's not a big deal, whereas academia makes it out to be a big deal 12:50 < cluckj> I'm saying it matters because of the connection between authority, power, and institutions...if you can do the same or similar scientific research that Merck is doing in their billion-dollar laboratories for $100 in your kitchen, it freaks people out 12:51 < kanzure> i could go on a money rant here if you would like 12:51 < kanzure> over time it should be only natural for small amounts of money to do more things. that shows an increase in capability for lower amounts of savings activity. 12:52 < kanzure> instead what we see though is larger and larger amounts of money being spent to do totally trivial things (or sometimes what /ought/ to be trivial things) 12:53 < maaku> "that's the cost of doing business" 12:53 < cluckj> it freaks the FBI and the FDA out because there's no "institutional oversight" (which I guess makes everything super safe for them), it freaks the medical-industrial complex out because they've built up this argument that they need to charge so much for drugs because they're spending tons of cash on research 12:53 < maaku> worst rationalization ever 12:53 < cluckj> kanzure, definitely 12:55 -!- Mokstar [~Moktortil@unaffiliated/mokstar] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:55 < cluckj> lots of people believe the medical-industrial complex on that lie because those companies are the only ones doing that kind of research at the moment 12:56 -!- maaddy [~maaddy@187.67.41.20] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:59 < kanzure> cluckj: i think that the system should be architected so that over time an individual is able to investigate more things on their own 13:00 < kanzure> cluckj: because in genreal we need the costs of basic research to be going down significantly if we want to cover as many things as we plan to 13:00 < cluckj> so when DIY starts undercutting one part of the "WE NEED INSTITUTIONS TO GET ANYTHING DONE" rhetoric, people who are invested in those institutions get very nervous 13:00 < cluckj> yes 13:01 < kanzure> nobody seriously cares if a college vanishes-- i mean if a college was to go underwater, someone or some other institution would just buy it, no big deal 13:03 < cluckj> colleges aren't the only institutions that do research 13:03 < kanzure> so what are they nervous about 13:03 -!- Viper168_ [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:03 < cluckj> they're nervous that the authority and power that their institution provides is going to disappear 13:04 < cluckj> that their investment in the institutional structures is going to be wasted 13:04 < Mokstar> you really think DIY research is on their radar? 13:04 < cluckj> if people are going to start doing their own medical research, and experimenting on themselves, do we really need the FDA anymore? 13:04 < kanzure> sunk cost fallacy? 13:04 < kanzure> that's not what the FDA was originally setup for :P 13:05 < cluckj> kanzure, yes 13:05 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/wiki/fda/ 13:05 < cluckj> Mokstar, yes 13:06 < kanzure> i don't think it's "on their radar" in that sense, it's more like a... "what does this mean and why is that happening" sense 13:06 < kanzure> and then wider existential crises 13:07 -!- delinquentme [~delinquen@74.61.157.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:07 < kanzure> the fda is not really because people are worried about people taking medicine, it's more of a regulation/authority/government/market thing.. 13:08 < cluckj> kanzure, they're worried because they're supposed to ensure public safety about medicines...if people are making their own (or collectively making it), they can't really regulate it 13:09 < kanzure> "public safety" is sort of a broken concept in a few places 13:09 < kanzure> have you read about "the proactionary principle" from max more? 13:09 < cluckj> DIY research is definitely on the radar of several companies and the federal government 13:09 < kanzure> another thing that i would recommend, and this may sound stupid, is "site:mises.org fda" heh 13:10 < cluckj> ya 13:10 < kanzure> http://mises.org/library/we-cannot-predict-many-ways-freedom-will-improve-our-lives 13:11 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:13 < cluckj> yes....it's the unknown unknown 13:13 < kanzure> http://www.maxmore.com/proactionary.html 13:14 -!- _0bitcount [~big-byte@81.61.34.185.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:15 < cluckj> oh dear, the forward march of progress 13:15 < kanzure> well, there's some context here, it's not intended to sound like that 13:15 < cluckj> haha 13:15 < kanzure> the context is that he was trying to explain why the precautionary principle is not good 13:18 < cluckj> yes 13:19 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:19 < cluckj> I'm saying it's about losing power and control, not about public safety 13:20 < cluckj> the way that the FDA currently regulates is tied up with other institutions, and DIY stuff disrupts that 13:20 < cluckj> so they're going to be freaking out about it until someone figures out a way to regulate DIY 13:21 < cluckj> which is to be honest, a kind of creepy prospect in every way I can think of 13:21 < cluckj> the way the FBI is 'regulating' DIY bio is extremely creepy 13:22 < kanzure> there was an idea somewhere about turning the fda into something you opt into... don't know where that idea came from.. 13:23 < cluckj> ew? 13:24 < kanzure> well it's better than them telling you that you can't buy a heart or whateer 13:24 < kanzure> *whatever 13:24 < cluckj> they need to find a way to regulate that doesn't exclusively require a formalized institution 13:25 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:26 < cluckj> I'm okay with not being able to buy a heart 13:27 < kanzure> have fun being heartless 13:28 < cluckj> ...is someone going to steal mine from me? 13:30 < kanzure> no, but yours might break 13:31 < cluckj> I do have a bad track record of organs breaking without much notice 13:38 < cluckj> I'd rather grow one at genspace than buy one, though 13:39 < kanzure> genspace isn't very do-it-yourslef 13:40 < cluckj> oh? 13:41 < cluckj> I mean I wouldn't want to grow a heart for myself by myself 13:41 < cluckj> I have no idea wtf I am doing 13:41 < kanzure> it's a community lab company. 13:41 < kanzure> i didn't claim you should grow your own heart; my comment was about buying hearts. 13:42 < kanzure> you mentioned genspace and i thought that may have been because DIY reasons 13:42 < kanzure> and thus my comment about categorizing genspace 13:42 < cluckj> haha 13:45 -!- augur [~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:50 -!- delinquentme [~delinquen@74.61.157.78] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:50 -!- augur [~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:51 -!- FourFire [~FourFire@host-37-191-200-199.lynet.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:05 -!- augur [~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:16 -!- augur [~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:18 -!- augur [~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:19 -!- _0bitcount [~big-byte@81.61.34.185.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:25 -!- augur [~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:26 -!- _TK_ [~TK@85.253.74.156.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:44 -!- delinquentme [~delinquen@74.61.157.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:44 -!- augur [~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:49 -!- augur [~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:52 -!- night [~Adifex@unaffiliated/adifex] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:53 -!- maaddy [~maaddy@187.67.41.20] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:57 -!- augur [~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:57 < kanzure> .title https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9114159 14:57 < yoleaux> 20n (YC W15) Uses Software To Engineer Microbes For Chemical-Making | Hacker News 14:59 -!- augur [~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:59 < kanzure> why? 14:59 < kanzure> everyone and their dog does metabolic pathway engineering stuff. so what makes this any different? 15:00 < kanzure> "Optimizing for large scale production is indeed what most of the field works on. There have been many success stories: an anti-malarial drug through yeast (Artemisinin by Amyris+Sanofi), a plastic precursor through bacteria (1,4-BDO by Genomatica+DuPont), and more. What they are missing is the whole spectrum of what could be made biologically. We will create microbes for the most valuable chemicals and then partner with existing ... 15:00 < kanzure> ... optimization companies that have industrial fermenters running. Think beer fermentation, just instead of the alcohol yeast, you use our yeast." 15:00 < kanzure> huh? that's missing? 15:00 < kanzure> what? "Defensibility for us: microbes we build, and the platform they form. Our software-driven engineering is significantly faster than the state-of-the-art: human's looking at metabolic maps. People will start building on top of our initial microbes and improving them. These initial microbes form the "platform" from which to enable more bioproduction apps." 15:00 < kanzure> how is that defensibility 15:01 -!- bkero [~bkero@216.151.13.66] has quit [Changing host] 15:01 -!- bkero [~bkero@osuosl/staff/bkero] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:04 < kanzure> maybe there's a business model to be had related to the private delivery of private strains (not even patented strains, just straight up private) 15:04 < kanzure> hmm but that doesn't explain enough.. 15:05 -!- delinquentme [~delinquen@74.61.157.78] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:07 -!- Mokstar [~Moktortil@unaffiliated/mokstar] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:07 -!- Beatzebub_ [~beatzebub@d162-156-12-57.bchsia.telus.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:08 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:09 < kanzure> what?? "Their special sauce is their software platform. While there are companies that license ways to create bacteria that produce specialty chemicals, the process of identifying how to create these microbes is tedious." 15:09 < kanzure> something doesn't add up here 15:09 < kanzure> "With the specialty chemical industry being worth $980 billion, licenses for these microbes can start in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. 20n already has several contracts in negotiation." 15:10 -!- Beatzebub__ [~beatzebub@d162-156-12-57.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:10 -!- Mokstar [~Moktortil@70.98.39.250] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:10 -!- Mokstar [~Moktortil@70.98.39.250] has quit [Changing host] 15:10 -!- Mokstar [~Moktortil@unaffiliated/mokstar] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:10 -!- dingo [dingo@1984.ws] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:10 -!- dingo [dingo@1984.ws] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:11 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:18 < kanzure> "Protein folding, 50 years on" http://web.iitd.ac.in/~nkurur/2012-13/IIsem/cyl110/protfoldprob50.pdf 15:26 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 15:45 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:15 -!- delinquentme [~delinquen@74.61.157.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:21 -!- andytoshi [~andytoshi@wpsoftware.net] has quit [Changing host] 16:21 -!- andytoshi [~andytoshi@unaffiliated/andytoshi] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:30 -!- nsh [~lol@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Excess Flood] 16:30 -!- nsh [~lol@wikipedia/nsh] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:46 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:46 -!- Mokstar [~Moktortil@unaffiliated/mokstar] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:48 -!- Mokstar [~Moktortil@70.98.39.250] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:48 -!- Mokstar [~Moktortil@70.98.39.250] has quit [Changing host] 16:48 -!- Mokstar [~Moktortil@unaffiliated/mokstar] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:49 -!- delinquentme [~delinquen@162-245-22-166.v250d.PUBLIC.monkeybrains.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:57 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:57 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess Flood] 17:00 < dpk> paperbot: http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs12119-000-1011-y 17:00 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/10c4f9b63dc8cdcb20e82d42278b881.txt 17:05 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:08 -!- soylentbomb [~k@unaffiliated/soylentbomb] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:08 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess Flood] 17:17 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:22 -!- nmz787_i [~nmccorkx@134.134.137.71] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:23 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:46 < delinquentme> kanzure, you shuld publish a weekly thinger on whos doing what thats cool 17:46 < delinquentme> PLZ 17:46 < delinquentme> pz. 18:01 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:10 < kanzure> a blog? no thanks 18:10 < kanzure> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carterfone#Landmark_regulatory_decision 18:11 < kanzure> "This ruling (13 F.C.C.2d 420) created the possibility of selling devices that could connect to the phone system using a protective coupler, and opened the market to customer-owned equipment. The decision is often referred-to as "any lawful device", allowing later innovations like answering machines, fax machines, and modems (which initially used the same type of manual acoustic coupler as the Carterfone) to proliferate." 18:28 -!- night [~Adifex@unaffiliated/adifex] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:28 -!- night [~Adifex@unaffiliated/adifex] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:29 < nmz787> kanzure: nah you need to 'tweet' it I think 18:29 < nmz787> or better yet, post it to myspace 18:29 < nmz787> then need some love 18:29 < nmz787> each post has to be in the form of metal music 18:29 < nmz787> and you need to scream the cool news at the sudience 18:29 < nmz787> audience* 18:31 < nmz787> what is the state of pdfparanoia? did you ever succeed in getting a congealed critical-mass of librarians to hang out on IRC and chat about this sort of stuff? 18:34 < kanzure> that's #code4lib 18:36 < nmz787> any suggestions for what I should think about working on for a talk at defcon? 18:36 < nmz787> i'm thinking a simple electromicrofluidic with spectroscopy 18:36 < nmz787> made a capillary electrophoresis rig 18:37 < nmz787> using a microscope for lithography stage and also detection of chromatography eluents 18:38 < nmz787> then throw some FIB shit in there somehow, probably most likely relating to plating the electrical traces (though I might be able to do that with normal lithography then gold sputtering) 18:40 < nmz787> s/made/maybe/ 18:56 < nmz787> huh, rich pell had something to do with that arduino thermal cycler 19:08 < cluckj> yes 19:09 < nmz787> he seems like a decent guy 19:09 < nmz787> his museuem was fun to visit 19:09 < nmz787> museum* 19:10 < cluckj> he's a really great dude 19:10 < cluckj> I still haven't made it to the museum yet 19:11 -!- Mokstar [~Moktortil@unaffiliated/mokstar] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:11 < nmz787> yeah I think I went twice 19:12 < nmz787> once maybe just for a second 19:12 < nmz787> I can't really remember 19:12 < cluckj> lol 19:18 -!- ryankarason [~rak@opensource.cse.ohio-state.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:20 < cluckj> I need to get to pittsburgh when it's not the holidays so I can do 19:20 < cluckj> err go 19:30 < nmz787> i took my dad 19:30 < nmz787> :P 19:30 < cluckj> oh god 19:30 < cluckj> was he prepared for the weird? 19:31 < nmz787> he thought it was strange that I photographed the entire row of books (so i could get the titles) 19:31 < nmz787> oh, yeah I think so 19:31 < nmz787> he seemed to enjoy it 19:31 < nmz787> we went out to dinner after with rich 19:32 -!- Souljack [souljack@shell.xshellz.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:32 < cluckj> he's having a baby, dunno when it's due 19:33 -!- Souljack [souljack@shell.xshellz.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:34 -!- ryankarason [~rak@opensource.cse.ohio-state.edu] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:35 < cluckj> my partner told me like....earlier this month? so maybe in 5 or 6 months from now 19:35 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:46 < nmz787> i think he had it last month 19:46 < nmz787> or they 19:47 < cluckj> it does take two, usually 19:50 < cluckj> no, it's way too early 19:51 < cluckj> I'll ask her in the morning 20:08 < cluckj> maybe what she said was "rich had a baby" instead of "rich is having a baby" 20:08 < nmz787> hah 20:09 < cluckj> whateva 20:09 < nmz787> are you from pgh? 20:09 -!- gene_hacker [~chatzilla@c-98-232-239-159.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:09 < cluckj> no 20:10 < cluckj> my partner was friends with him at CMU for undergrad, then she and him ended up at RPI (with me) at the same time 20:11 < JayDugger> ... 20:13 < cluckj> ? 20:16 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:24 -!- Quashie_ [~boingredd@50.14.92.17] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:26 < nmz787> niceeee 20:26 -!- Quashie [~boingredd@50.14.92.17] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:49 < nmz787> http://diyhpl.us/~nmz787/pdf/DFT_flavor_of_coordination_chemistry.pdf 20:50 < nmz787> DFT... mmm, Donut Flavor Technology 21:18 -!- drewbot_ [~cinch@ec2-54-224-31-169.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:18 -!- drewbot [~cinch@ec2-54-237-183-82.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:41 -!- delinquentme [~delinquen@162-245-22-166.v250d.PUBLIC.monkeybrains.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:06 < nmz787> http://diyhpl.us/~nmz787/pdf/Realistic_Modeling_of_Nanostructures_Using_Density_Functional_Theory.pdf 22:20 < nmz787> "standard, state-of-the-art electronic-structure approaches based on density functional theory (DFT) have computational costs that scale as the second power of the number of atoms studied for the memory required in a calculation, and as the third power for the CPU time." 22:20 < nmz787> as of 2006 22:24 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:25 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:39 -!- delinquentme [~delinquen@162-245-22-166.v250d.PUBLIC.monkeybrains.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:50 -!- delinquentme [~delinquen@162-245-22-166.v250d.PUBLIC.monkeybrains.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:02 -!- gene_hacker [~chatzilla@c-98-232-239-159.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:06 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:07 -!- delinquentme [~delinquen@162-245-22-166.v250d.PUBLIC.monkeybrains.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:09 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:39 -!- delinquentme [~delinquen@162-245-22-166.v250d.PUBLIC.monkeybrains.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:40 -!- DumpsterD1ver [~loki@50.242.254.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:50 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:51 -!- soylentbomb [~k@unaffiliated/soylentbomb] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:52 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:54 -!- DumpsterD1ver [~loki@50.242.254.38] has joined ##hplusroadmap --- Log closed Fri Feb 27 00:00:06 2015