--- Log opened Wed Mar 04 00:00:11 2015
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01:14 < archels> nmz787: that's EEG that you're describing
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05:41 < kanzure> hmph
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11:21 < nsh> --
11:21 < nsh> Woo understands that when selling brain drugs, skepticism comes with the territory. “The typical first reaction is, this is bullshit, you guys are snake-oil salesmen,” he says. “We’re not medical doctors nor biochemistry experts, but we are experts in building teams and building products. Like how Elon Musk attacks rockets and electric cars from ‘first principles,’ we see ourselves as applying Silicon Valley aesthetics and operational know-how
11:21 < nsh> to the murky world of nootropics.”
11:21 < nsh> -- http://fusion.net/story/58131/i-tried-silicon-valleys-favorite-brain-enhancing-drugs/
11:21 < nsh> .title
11:21 < yoleaux> I tried Silicon Valley's favorite 'brain-enhancing' drugs -- Fusion
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12:47 < poppingtonic> paperbot: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20438233
12:47 < paperbot> http://libgen.info/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1037%2Fa0018963
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12:50 < poppingtonic> http://projects.csail.mit.edu/gsb/old-archive/gsb-archive/gsb2000-02-11.html
12:50 < poppingtonic> .title
12:50 < yoleaux> Yak Shaving
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12:58 < justanotheruser> paperbot: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/hep.27667/abstract
12:58 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/2856ccdcf5f5c22422998211a45a7f0f.txt
13:16 < fenn> RISE is $1/pill and only contains bacopa, theanine, and caffeine? wtf
13:18 < fenn> $0.05/pill http://www.swansonvitamins.com/swanson-premium-full-spectrum-bacopa-monniera-500-mg-90-caps
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13:19 < fenn> $0.16/pill (i've seen much cheaper) http://www.swansonvitamins.com/jarrow-formulas-inc-theanine-100-mg-60-caps
13:24 < fenn> "Together, these faceless armchair scientists seek a common truth—a clean, unharmful way to make their brains better"
13:25 < kanzure> one day i hope men will be judged not by the size and shape of their chair but by the quality of their chair's upholstery
13:28 < fenn> i just hope these "silicon valley" types don't fuck it all up for everyone
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13:28 < justanotheruser> paperbot: http://dx.doi.org/10.1002/hep.27645
13:28 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/db819c4a5ed64038c710bb7db2c3429f.txt
13:33 < archels> also calling caffeine a nootropic is ugh
13:35 < kanzure> agreed, except it may have unusual benefits to some users
13:36 < kanzure> so perhaps for a handful of people caffeine is more potent
13:36 < kanzure> or if not more potent then maybe effects them in a way that is unequivocably more nootropic than what we know as caffeine effects
13:36 < fenn> caffeine is a nootropic, fuck you
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13:37 < kanzure> fenn: so btw i guess you disagree with the "nootropic must give you an ability to design better nootropic" definition thing?
13:38 < DrVortex> !paperbot
13:38 < fenn> it's a stupid definition, mostly because 1) you don't need nootropics to design nootropics, and 2) there aren't any good examples of this happening
13:38 < fenn> also, who cares
13:38 < fenn> it's like having a replicator that only makes replicators
13:40 < DrVortex> paperbot: http://dx.doi.org/10.1038/nature12205
13:40 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/25db9beca4b8e0638a55065abd401859.txt
13:40 < archels> too much tolerance buildup and side-effects to meet the definition, imho
13:40 < archels> but it all depends on your definition
13:41 < kanzure> "you don't need nootropics to design nootropics" then what's the point of a nootropic
13:41 < DrVortex> Ah it needs the link to the PDF....
13:41 < archels> I consider things like fish oil supplements, vitamin Bs, CDP-choline, racetams, etc nootropic
13:41 < kanzure> archels: does everyone experience tolerance?
13:41 < kanzure> DrVortex: paperbot does not always work :)
13:41 < kanzure> paperbot: http://nature.com/nature/journal/v497/n7451/pdf/nature12205.pd
13:41 < archels> probably, due to its mechanism of action
13:41 < fenn> fish oil is a nutrient, not a drug
13:41 < archels> which is dominantly extracellular afaik
13:42 < DrVortex> Yeah, I was trying it on my own paper to see if it gets the PDF which I know is there
13:42 < DrVortex> paperbot: http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v497/n7451/pdf/nature12205.pdf
13:42 < kanzure> paperbot seems to be thinking deep thoughts
13:42 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/8d6cca98ca9df05a6ac4900be41801c3.txt
13:42 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/8dd5231b5c2aae2a4a29fe1ff32b78ea.pdf
13:42 < fenn> people just take too much caffeine, hence the side effects and tolerance
13:43 < kanzure> DrVortex: there you go. at least one of those worked.
13:43 < DrVortex> Yep. I get it, it needs the link to the PDF.
13:43 < kanzure> not always
13:43 < kanzure> https://github.com/kanzure/paperbot
13:44 < DrVortex> paperbot: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/anie.201500229/epdf
13:44 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/ef57d9853983582077589b6729d57906.txt
13:45 < kanzure> DrVortex: is your nick a reference to a comic book character, or are you really great at vortices?
13:45 < DrVortex> It's a anglicized obfuscation of my actual name.
13:46 < DrVortex> paperbot: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/anie.201500229/pdf
13:46 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/f37579aace81db44b23b6ffd1e9e67b9.txt
13:47 < DrVortex> Hmm, so far it has failed if the link isn't a direct link to a PDF file. I suppose it's not handling redirects well.
13:47 < kanzure> certain redirects it can handle, others not.. it's hard to guess because it tries multiple backup methods.
13:50 < justanotheruser> kanzure: whats the point of a catalyst if it isn't being used to synthesize another catalyst
13:51 < kanzure> reuse
13:52 < kanzure> control over expression, reaction rates, etc.
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13:54 < justanotheruser> I don't see why a nootropic can't just be considered a catalyst for creating useful things that aren't nootropics
13:54 < justanotheruser> (and nootropics)
13:56 < FourFire> justanotheruser, it depends on what the person taing nootrpics does
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15:44 < delinquentme> kanzure, job scheduling softwarz
15:44 < delinquentme> celery ?
15:45 < kanzure> yep
15:47 < delinquentme> no slurm?
15:47 < delinquentme> no python RQ?
15:48 < kanzure> celery > rq
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16:03 < delinquentme> kazoo why.
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16:07 < nmz787_i> http://www.semi.org/eu/sites/semi.org/files/docs/Fraunhofer_130924%20Opportunities%20of%20Wafer%20Level%20Embedded%20Technologies%20for%20MEMS%20Devices.pdf
16:07 < nmz787_i> 'Opportunities of Wafer Level Embedded Technologies for MEMS Devices'
16:19 < kanzure> delinquentme: celery works
16:21 < nmz787_i> http://www.nanoscribe.de/en/products/photonic-professional-gt/
16:21 < nmz787_i> .title
16:21 < yoleaux> Photonic Professional GT - Nanoscribe GmbH
16:21 < nmz787_i> "The next generation 3D laser lithography system, Photonic Professional GT sets new standards in 3D microprinting and maskless lithography. It combines two writing modes in one device: an ultra-precise piezo mode for arbitrary 3D trajectories (FBMS) and the high-speed galvo mode (MBFS) for fastest structuring in a layer-by-layer fashion."
16:23 < nmz787_i> I want /that/ 3D printer for my birthday
16:23 < delinquentme> nmz787_i, we need one
16:24 < delinquentme> kanzure, we don't have established protocols for stealing massive expensive equipment
16:24 < delinquentme> you know dis.
16:28 < kanzure> nah where would i store it
16:30 < delinquentme> ..............................
16:30 < delinquentme> kanzure, i thought you were handling the hplus warehouse
16:31 < delinquentme> you're in TX im in CA ... so we need it centrally located
16:31 < delinquentme> like ....
16:31 < delinquentme> montana
16:32 < kanzure> taking the average of positions to place storage is silly
16:32 < kanzure> "yes let's pick a spot where neither of us are"
16:33 < kanzure> that'll.... work...
16:34 < delinquentme> i know.
16:34 < delinquentme> you dont have to say it. I know . much clever.
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16:36 < nmz787_i> that one would go into it's own special room... i will buy a house appropriately
16:37 < kanzure> fenn: when russia's economy collapses again, do you want to go shopping for old soviet equipment?
16:38 < fenn> i'll take 3 nuclear subs and a tu-160 please
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17:08 < kanzure> gourneau: yo
17:11 < fenn> wut
17:11 < kanzure> fenn: funny email is funny
17:12 < fenn> "seriously? i bothered to email you? why? what's wrong with me?"
17:13 < kanzure> "seriously? i put ads on that page?"
17:16 < fenn> gourneau: we met at science hack day, the beard detector
17:16 < kanzure> he doesn't seem to be online at the moment, actually
17:17 < kanzure> i've been trying to get him in here for many years
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17:17 < fenn> idle 6 hours
17:17 < kanzure> hmm.
17:17 < kanzure> irc wandering
17:19 < fenn> gourneau: anyway i was wondering what the hell is synthego and why is it not transcriptic
17:20 < nmz787_i> fenn: synthego wants to be transcriptic-on-a-chip
17:20 < gourneau> yo fenn and kanzure
17:21 < gourneau> That isn’t really what synthego is aiming for nmz787_i. We are just doing lab automation stuff :)
17:22 < kanzure> synthego wasn't doing on a chip stuff
17:22 < kanzure> unless they switched
17:22 < kanzure> i think synthego was probably crippled by a certain person if delinquentme's information was accurate
17:23 < nmz787_i> that's what they told me when I interviewed with them a while ago
17:23 < nmz787_i> I think
17:23 < nmz787_i> or maybe that's what I surmised
17:23 < gourneau> nope, no chips here right now :/
17:23 < nmz787_i> they said they wanted to do DNA synthesis on-chip as a first product
17:23 < fenn> crippled meaning investor said "chips are too finicky, do something else"?
17:23 < nmz787_i> but that was like 2 years ago, around the time they had that launch party
17:24 < kanzure> fenn: nah a certain person
17:24 < kanzure> when i talked with synthego in 2012 they wanted to do robotic liquid pipetting
17:24 < kanzure> whoops, 2013
17:25 < fenn> not an uncertain person?
17:25 < kanzure> i mean some people have a tendency to steal money and derail operations
17:25 < fenn> maybe they were uncertain about stealing the money
17:25 < fenn> like, if i buy this yacht for the company, is it really stealing?
17:26 < fenn> anyway i'm more interested in the robotics
17:26 < kanzure> why? you should be more interested in criticizing opentrons' choices or something
17:26 < fenn> i like opentrons' choices though
17:27 < gourneau> How is the project going btw?
17:27 < fenn> havent checked since they finished the kickstarter
17:28 < delinquentme> kanzure, ???
17:29 < kanzure> delinquentme: your same troublemaker used to work there
17:29 < fenn> so opentrons is a kickstarter staff pick, but glowing plant is banned for eternity?
17:29 < kanzure> or maybe still does
17:30  * fenn scratches his head in confusion
17:30 < kanzure> fenn: opentrons did not cause ETC Group to write a hatemail campaign to journalists
17:30 < fenn> "Do your first DNA assembly by hand or with an OT.One, boot it up in a bacteria, see it glow!"
17:30 < kanzure> therefore kickstarter doesn't care
17:30 < fenn> what's with corporations being so lame
17:31 < fenn> .wik ETC group
17:31 < yoleaux> "ETC Group is an international organization dedicated to "the conservation and sustainable advancement of cultural and ecological diversity and human rights." The full legal name is Action Group on Erosion, Technology and Concentration. "ETC" is intended to be pronounced "et cetera."" — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ETC_Group
17:31 < delinquentme> from what I know synthego is still kicking butt??
17:31 < fenn> what about my right to grow glowing plants
17:32 < kanzure> etc group is the same people that were telling the media that diybio was full of bioterrorists
17:32 < kanzure> and that transhumanists were going to blow up the planet or something
17:32 < fenn> at this rate...
17:33 < gourneau> “The ETC Group has released several comic-style illustrations regarding "Synthia", the cell with the first synthetic genome created by Craig Venter”, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXQhJPdlElY lolz
17:33 < fenn> transgenic bacteria "don't count" apparently
17:35 < gourneau> hah “Synthia” literally has a evil mustache in that video
17:35 < kanzure> etc group is a waste of time
17:35 < kanzure> don't feed the trolls, etc
17:36 < nmz787_i> awww MONKEY
17:36 < fenn> i'm suing ETC group for loss of brain cells
17:38 < nmz787_i> synthia looks more like an owl
17:38 < nmz787_i> http://www.freevector.com/site_media/preview_images/FreeVector-Owl-Cartoon.jpg
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17:39 < nmz787_i> /more/ than an owl, it looks like an evil owl
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17:42 < fenn> "Chiu and Mitch are in Shenzhen working on manufacturing, and have completed the first five "alpha" robots of our production run. ... the first one from the scaled up production (on the right below) has been back in Brooklyn for a week. Everything is all tested and good-to-go!"
17:42 < fenn> (opentrons production update)
17:55 < kanzure> ugh hieroglyphics
17:57 < fenn> completely unrelated, i've been hanging out with the archive folks and this "internetarchive.bak" thing has started gathering momentum: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9147719 http://archiveteam.org/index.php?title=INTERNETARCHIVE.BAK
17:58 < fenn> they are now (an hour ago) talking about proof of storage/proof of retrievability https://cseweb.ucsd.edu/~hovav/dist/verstore.pdf
17:58 < fenn> (more hieroglyphics)
17:59 < fenn> there's some overlap with bitcoin-wizards
18:03 < cluckj> sweet
18:03 < kanzure> i have read this paper
18:03 < fenn> plz explain it to the rest of us
18:04 < fenn> i see all those sigmas and my eyes just stop working
18:04 < kanzure> hmm maybe it was not this paper in particular. but i have definitely done some reading on proofs of retrievability.
18:05 < kanzure> i don't think that proofs of storage are going to be practical really... there's no way to prove something is stored other than reading it back out.
18:05 < kanzure> retrievability is probably a better direction
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18:05 < fenn> i was more interested in the "does this actually work?" aspect, but the authors are all jazzed about showing how efficient their scheme is
18:05 < kanzure> also it is interesting that integrity is pretty easy
18:06 < kanzure> well, it's better we talk about those things in -wizards
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18:07 < fenn> closure> the geocities torrent currently has 1 leech and 0 seeds :(
18:07 < fenn> d'eaux
18:07 < kanzure> so a minimum implementation is something like "hash the file, check the hash"
18:07 < nmz787_i> ugh, why do all these biotech whatever-starter campaigns all seem like they spew misinformation or aren't totally honest... https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/color-changing-flowers
18:08 < kanzure> or actually, a minimum implementation is "load the file, check the file byte for byte"
18:08 < fenn> apparently 1TB torrents don't work for many clients
18:08 < kanzure> where minimum implementation means most obvious thing
18:08 < kanzure> fenn: argh that's infuriating. that should be more widely known.
18:08 < kanzure> anyway, i think that you want to be able to query a remote server with various questions, and then have others be able to verify the answers to the questions, even without having the full file themselves
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18:09 < nmz787_i> the video is all 'ANTHOCYANINS.... CIRCADIAN RHYTHMS' then later down the page they change it up to 'IT GOES FROM WHITE TO RED'  and further 'BLUE IS A STRETCH GOAL'
18:09 < kanzure> and also, if you are doing a distributed file storage scheme where multiple parties have complete copies, you obviously want to do watermarked or uh.. the pretext thing where you hash the plaintext but also the other thing that i forget the name of....
18:09 < kanzure> blah what is the name
18:09 < kanzure> salt
18:10 < kanzure> i suspect that zooko has implemented something like this for tahoe-lafs
18:13 < fenn> https://thepiratebay.se/torrent/5923737/Geocities_-_The_Torrent
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18:13 < kanzure> also.... i think that certain protocols in this area are easier to implement if you, as the originator of the file, can come up with some queries and challenge-responses-verifiers ahead of time (e.g. while you still have the file)
18:15 < fenn> .wik MAC
18:15 < yoleaux> "Mac or MAC may refer to:" — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MAC
18:15 < kanzure> .wik HMAC
18:15 < yoleaux> "In cryptography, a keyed-hash message authentication code (HMAC) is a specific construction for calculating a message authentication code (MAC) involving a cryptographic hash function in combination with a secret cryptographic key." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMAC
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18:16 < kanzure> like i said... -wizards
18:16 < kanzure> they will have you your answer in less than a dozen seconds
18:17 < fenn> i'm not sure what the question is
18:18 < kanzure> "is this bullshit"
18:18 < fenn> "do we even need to worry about proof of retrievability"
18:19 < kanzure> also include internetarchive context
18:19 < kanzure> for feelgoods
18:19 < fenn> i think it's nearing my bedtime
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18:37 < fenn> http://www.reocities.com/neighborhoods/
18:41 < kanzure> "For example, in 1992, currency speculation forced the Central Bank of Sweden to raise interest rates for a few days to 500% per annum, and later to devalue the krona.[83]"
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18:58 < justanotheruser> paperbot: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S157400489901006X
18:58 < justanotheruser> paperbot?
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19:31 < nmz787> justanotheruser: search google scholar first: http://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/6881182.pdf
19:41 < justanotheruser> thanks
19:41 < justanotheruser> does paperbot not search google scholar?
19:43 < nmz787> seems paperbot isn't here now, that's the first problem
19:43 < nmz787> last I checked, paperbot did not search google scholar
19:43 < nmz787> that would be smart though
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19:43 < nmz787> it also might be against google's terms of service
19:44 < nmz787> since they probably want you to use some API
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19:50 < Shannon> good evening
19:50 < nmz787> hi Shannon
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21:29 < JayDugger> Good evening, everyone.
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21:51 < justanotheruser> kanzure: where do I get piezo tubes individually (or two at a time)
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22:06 < genehacker> piezoelectric tubes?
22:06 < genehacker> what for?
22:07 < justanotheruser> http://e-basteln.de/index_m.htm
22:07 < justanotheruser> this has been on my todo list for a few years now
22:08 < justanotheruser> his sourcing is outdated and the ones I checked with required me to buy a few thousand dollars worth of tubes
22:12 < genehacker> so why not just do this:
22:12 < genehacker> https://jessdea.wordpress.com/2010/05/18/assignment-7-diy-build-your-own-scanning-tunneling-microscope/
22:12 < genehacker> use a piezo buzzer
22:14 < justanotheruser> If that wasn't a rhetorical,
22:14 < justanotheruser> that is poorly documented and a piezo buzzer has much less precision
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22:28 < genehacker> well supposedly a hobby ceramics kiln can be used to make superconductors if properly calibrated, maybe you could make piezoelectric tubes that way?
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22:32 < justanotheruser> Would be cool, but way too much active time buying, building and creating using that
22:34 < ParahSailin_> talked to the wefunder guys
22:34 < ParahSailin_> so yeah, i was correct before, there are no implemented sec rules that allow non-accredited investors in accordance to jobs act yet
22:35 < kanzure> fascinating
22:36 < nmz787> there is the latest one on instructables I think... or hackaday.io which is pretty good
22:36 < nmz787> but yeah, why not piezo buzzers?
22:37 < nmz787> or a realtime clock crystal
22:44 < genehacker> huh foresight.org is down
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23:28 < Shannon> hi nmz787
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--- Log closed Thu Mar 05 00:00:12 2015