--- Log opened Wed Mar 11 00:00:18 2015
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03:52 < archels> http://www.varidesk.com/stand-up-desks
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04:27 < chris_99> kanzure, the other day you were wondering about transparent beehives - http://urbanbeelab.okno.be/doku.php
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06:22 < kanzure> "brussels urban bee laboratory"
06:22 < kanzure> "She has for decades been a recognized leader pioneering bee hives."
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08:15 < kanzure> "Researchers at MIT have developed a method to stimulate brain tissue using external magnetic fields and injected magnetic nanoparticles — a technique allowing direct stimulation of neurons. The research, conducted by Polina Anikeeva, an assistant professor of materials science and engineering, graduate student Ritchie Chen, and three others, has been published in the journal Science."
08:15 < kanzure> "In their study, the team injected magnetic iron oxide particles just 22 nanometers in diameter into the brain. When exposed to an external alternating magnetic field — which can penetrate deep inside biological tissues — these particles rapidly heat up. The resulting local temperature increase can then lead to neural activation by triggering heat-sensitive capsaicin receptors — the same proteins that the body uses to detect both ...
08:15 < kanzure> ... actual heat and the "heat" of spicy foods. (Capsaicin is the chemical that gives hot peppers their searing taste.) Anikeeva’s team used viral gene delivery to induce the sensitivity to heat in selected neurons in the brain. The particles, which have virtually no interaction with biological tissues except when heated, tend to remain where they’re placed, allowing for long-term treatment without the need for further invasive ...
08:15 < kanzure> ... procedures."
08:15 < kanzure> "The magnetic nanoparticles also have been used for decades as contrast agents in MRI scans, so they are considered relatively safe in the human body."
08:15 < kanzure> "The nanoparticles integrate into the tissue and remain largely intact," Anikeeva says. "Then, that region can be stimulated at will by externally applying an alternating magnetic field. The goal for us was to figure out whether we could deliver stimuli to the nervous system in a wireless and noninvasive way."
08:15 < kanzure> "In addition to Anikeeva and Chen, the research team also included postdoc Gabriela Romero, graduate student Michael Christiansen, and undergraduate Alan Mohr"
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08:53 < archels> do not want
08:53 < archels> if you're going through the trouble to express capsaicin recptors, why not just do optogenetics. geez
08:54 < kanzure> optogenetics is difficult without a glass window
08:54 < ParahSailin> heat receptors are possibly more sensitive
08:57 < archels> if you're going to be as untargeted as magnetic stimulation, just a fibre glued into a hole in the skull will more than suffice
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13:29 < delinquentme> ... I/O .... CPU-bound .... and I think there are two others in this class of bottlnecks ...
13:30 < kanzure> memory bound
13:31 < kanzure> work bound: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof-of-work_system
13:31 < kanzure> which is sorta CPU i guess but sue me
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13:46 < delinquentme> kanzure, thoughts on constraints for single instance mongoDB vrs multi-instance
13:46 < kanzure> do you really need mongodb?
13:47 < delinquentme> the constraint on mongo is we're in super research mode, schema is evolving ... and nobody in my work group has run migrations before =X
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13:53 < catern> maybe you should learn
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13:55 < kanzure> delinquentme: use alembic
13:55 < kanzure> delinquentme: migrations are easy to test
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13:56 < delinquentme> kanzure,  +1
13:56 < delinquentme> http://alembic.readthedocs.org/en/latest/tutorial.html
13:56 < delinquentme> kanzure, you'd not use south though huh ?
13:57 < kanzure> i have used south when i am using django
13:57 < kanzure> but i am not often using django
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14:15 < kanzure> win 6
14:15 < kanzure> gaaaah
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16:31 < fenn> kanzure you know you want some boat anchors http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/showthread.php?46693-Goodwill-s-Comp
16:32 < fenn> those mac pluses are my inheritance
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16:32 < fenn> in 20 years i'll be on antiques roadshow saying "oh my gosh"
16:33 < chris_99> heh
16:34 < fenn> weird, the NeXT guy was from kamloops
16:46 < fenn> SGI Onyx codename "Terminator"
16:46 < fenn> http://www.nekochan.net/wiki/File:Onyx.gif
16:47 < kanzure> err any boat anchor requests will have to be made more explicit than that
16:47 < kanzure> bbl
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16:53 < fenn> my dad is saving a bunch of mac pluses in the garage for unknown reasons
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17:03 < fenn> well i couldn't find any solid information but it sounds like possibly the whole computer museum is up for grabs
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19:25 < kanzure> fenn: why is your dad tossing all this?
19:25 < kanzure> this person is in kamloops?
19:25 < kanzure> cc sheena
20:28 < fenn> no, the museum that's throwing out old (fancy) computers is in austin
20:33 < kanzure> and your dad is in kamloops?
20:34 < kanzure> why does he have a computer museum in his garage?
20:39 < justanotheruser> kanzure: are you going to TBC
20:40 < fenn> some random person who posted something on a forum is in kamloops
20:40 < fenn> my dad does not have a computer museum
20:40 < kanzure> justanotheruser: what is TBC?
20:41 < justanotheruser> texas bitcoin conference
20:42 < kanzure> definitely not
20:42 < kanzure> last year was awful
20:42 < kanzure> i do not want to associate myself with those people
20:43 < justanotheruser> I get the impression it's a bit scammy
20:43 < justanotheruser> are you talking about the hackathon?
20:43 < kanzure> i stopped by the hackathon to see what everyone was up to, got trapped in a conversation with ripple labs :(
20:44 < justanotheruser> not worth the trip then?
20:44 < justanotheruser> I was thinking about going because of the hackathon prize of "$1 Million"
20:45 < justanotheruser> but it looks like the requirements are making an altcoin
20:45 < kanzure> don't go
20:46 < justanotheruser> I wasn't going to pay
20:46 < justanotheruser> there lineup is way too weak to pay for
20:46 < justanotheruser> *their
20:47 < kanzure> at this point i suspect the only things worth going to are bitcoin-developer-related stuff
20:47 < kanzure> specifically, reference client devs
20:47 < kanzure> anything else just seems like a waste of time :/
20:47 < justanotheruser> what conferences are those? panama and?
20:48 < justanotheruser> "The first Million Dollar Blockchain 2.0 Hackathon proved an amazing experience for the participants and added 4 powerful new protocols to the community, Storj.io, DERPA (Tor Coin), La Zooz, and Block Auth. "
20:54 < catern> fenn: thanks for the forum link, I know some retro people who will be interested in this
20:55 < fenn> that's ageist!
20:55  * fenn looks around for a spare snark mark
20:56 < fenn> it's certainly sacrilege but i look at those reality engine boards and i can only think about what i'd do with the heatsinks
20:56 < catern> i know some ancient dried up prunish burdens* (who are interested in retrocomputing)
20:57 < kanzure> justanotheruser: believe it or not, i don't have a good grasp of which bitcoin conferences the developers are all going to.... somehow these conferences are happening without my knowledge.
20:57 < fenn> that's better. descriptive modifiers are always better than lumping people into categories
20:57 < kanzure> justanotheruser: which is weird because i am usually relentless about stalking conferences. that's how i get attendance lists and add to my stalkmatrix.
20:57 < kanzure> "probabilistic stalking" ("yea they might know each other now")
20:57 < catern> hey kanzure am I in your stalkmatrix
20:58 < kanzure> everyone is
20:58 < kanzure> you were first identified on 2014-04-21
20:58 < justanotheruser> kanzure: when did I first come to this channel
20:58 < kanzure> 2013-12-24 perhaps
20:58 < justanotheruser> hah wrong
20:58 < catern> nice, that's probably when I offered to donate a VM inside an academic network to the paperbot cause
20:59 < catern> which I hope you have noted down
20:59 < kanzure> 2013-11-10
20:59 < catern> since that offer is still open
20:59 < kanzure> at this point i need more devleopers on paperbot
21:00 < catern> did gradstudentbot graduate
21:00 < kanzure> gah i mean 2013-09-10
21:00 < kanzure> gradstudentbot ran out of material
21:00 < justanotheruser> ehh maybe
21:00 < kanzure> there's only so much comedy i can write
21:00 < kanzure> the same joke said 5000 times gets boring
21:01 < kanzure> also i forgot how to launch him
21:01 < kanzure> so there's that
21:01 < justanotheruser> kanzure: I found this https://www.tumblr.com/search/shit%20grad%20students%20say
21:01 < catern> do you care to recruit developers? because I'm sure if you put the word out you might get some developers, it's a p. noble project
21:01 < kanzure> gradstudentbot was based on https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovEghdXC4tE
21:02 < kanzure> catern: i am not in a position to recruit for paperbot so openly
21:03 < catern> what if other people recruited for "a project for scraping papers" and referred trustworthy candidates to you
21:03 < justanotheruser> being a grad student isn't *that* bad is it?
21:03 < justanotheruser> *crickets*
21:04 < kanzure> catern: i would be happy to assign them work
21:04 < kanzure> or they could do whatever they want, there's a lot of bugs
21:04 < kanzure> or alternative directions
21:04 < justanotheruser> theres got to be some shady mechanical turk that has access to a lot of papers
21:05 < kanzure> access is not entirely the problem
21:05 < kanzure> it's really hard to just host 50 TB of papers without getting sued
21:06 < justanotheruser> ask them to upload to mega and keep encrypted backups? That's all I've got
21:06 < catern> kanzure: wait is that the primary issue? hosting?
21:06 < kanzure> oh right.. i guess i should consider using megaupload
21:06 < kanzure> catern: pretty much
21:06 < justanotheruser> mego.co.nz
21:07 < kanzure> catern: there are moles in every publishing company totally willing to just dump terabytes upon terabytes of papers
21:07 < catern> bittorrent?
21:07 < catern> i dunno
21:07 < kanzure> nobody seeds
21:07 < catern> right
21:07 < kanzure> libgen has like 0.9 seeders
21:07 < catern> :(
21:07 < catern> how big is libgen again?
21:07 < kanzure> 10 TB
21:07 < fenn> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seizure_of_Megaupload#/media/File:MegaUpload_FBI-Banner.jpg
21:07 < catern> hmm
21:07 < kanzure> 12 ish
21:07 < fenn> also they blew up his house with a swat team helicopter, or something
21:08 < kanzure> fenn: nah they are back
21:08 < justanotheruser> that videos really depressing
21:08 < kanzure> justanotheruser: welcome to biology
21:08 < kanzure> justanotheruser: friends don't let friends go to school
21:08 < catern> wait so
21:08 < catern> why not just put all these papers on libgen?
21:08 < kanzure> well the dude died
21:08 < kanzure> central point of failure
21:08 < kanzure> nobody seeds
21:08 < catern> wait really
21:09 < kanzure> and their connection is 2 kbps
21:09 < catern> i see
21:09 < catern> would new seeders be helpful?
21:09 < fenn> 2kbps is acceptable if there's no other option
21:09 < kanzure> new seeders would be helpful but i don't know if anyone is seeding anymore. someone should go look.
21:10 < fenn> how would you even know? piratebay has no tracker
21:10 < fenn> there are 1000 torrents to manually check
21:10 < kanzure> manually -> programmatically. using computer magics.
21:12 < catern> ugh
21:12 < catern> i'd have to go browse the forums
21:12 < catern> so russian
21:12 < catern> terrifying
21:12  * fenn mumble mumble "unlimited" backup service
21:12 < catern> i mean there are definitely
21:12 < catern> lots of
21:13 < catern> actually
21:13 < kanzure> russians are quite resourceful
21:13 < kanzure> they have lived for like 100 years just on beets or something
21:13 < kanzure> and all that science stuff.
21:13 < catern> there are lots of people who would be willing to provide bandwidth and storage if it wasn't risky
21:13 < kanzure> pretty nice of them to give us a massive library
21:13 < kanzure> we're so book-poor
21:13 < fenn> how nice of them to steal our publically funded research papers for us
21:14 < catern> does anyone have a ready link to the libgen torrent file list
21:14 < kanzure> yeah, they are providing a necessary public service
21:14 < kanzure> hmm
21:14 < catern> or like, an archive of all of the torrents
21:15 < kanzure> "On December 29th, 2014, LibGen made an announcement http://genofond.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=7611 Their entire collection of scientific articles is being released to the torrent network. This repository contains over 35 million articles. Over 25TB of data."
21:15 < kanzure> ftp://libgen.in/scimag_torrent/
21:15 < fenn> catern http://fennetic.net/irc/libgen_magnets_0-789.txt
21:16 < kanzure> "The overall collection is split into archives of 1000 files each. Each torrent in this bundle contains 100 such archives. That means each torrent in this bundle contains 100,000 files. There are 350 torrent here -- making 35,000,000 files."
21:16 < catern> 0-789, is that all of them?
21:16 < kanzure> "As with the main LibGen repository, this one also has an associated database of metadata. ftp://ftp.libgen.in/dbdumps/ "
21:16 < kanzure> "Once again, the data itself is not readily accessible without the metadata database and a front end. Fortunately, karl_karlsson has once again created a portable version that requires no installation. (It does require set up.) http://genofond.org/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=607 "
21:17 < kanzure> "A link to the front-end can be found here. (I have a problem with the CSS, but the search etc works fine). http://genofond.org/viewtopic.php?p=59793#p59793 "
21:17 < catern> it's also important to maintain easy access to the data I guess
21:17 < fenn> 0-789 is 3 years old
21:17 < catern> ah, ok
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21:18 < kanzure> empty :( ftp://ftp.libgen.in/scimag_torrent/
21:18 < kanzure> oh, not empty
21:18 < kanzure> fenn plz wget -m -np
21:19 < kanzure> ftp://ftp.libgen.org/dbdumps/scimag_dbbackup-YYYY-MM-DD.rar
21:19 < kanzure> http://genofond.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=7611
21:19 < fenn> what's the difference between the 1.3GB dumps and the 260MB dumps
21:20 < kanzure> "RayMolacha wrote: An anecdote. When Aaron Swartz died two years ago, as sort of a memorial, I put up a torrent of 35GB of old JSTOR files." wait a sec i know this guy
21:21 < kanzure> how is this guy not gmaxwell?
21:21 < catern> it would sure be nice have a not-md5-named dump
21:22 < fenn> oh i have other lists
21:23 < fenn> they are much bigger
21:23 < catern> i don't actually know what i just said, just going off the post kanzure just quoted
21:26 < fenn> uff 100kB/s upload
21:26 < kanzure> yeah so those 35 TB sounds like basically humanity's best resource ever
21:26 < catern> hm
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21:29 < kanzure> so one idea is that this data set could be distributed for academic study of science itself
21:29 < kanzure> for example, data mining people
21:29 < kanzure> "well i needed this data set so that i could perform research on 35 million samples"
21:30 < kanzure> many researchers are already running algorithms against large data sets from publishers
21:30 < kanzure> but this is the largest
21:30 < kanzure> and no single publisher can offer more comprehensive data (although publishers can probably, presently, offer more friendly formats for their data)
21:30 < catern> that's clever
21:30 < kanzure> anyway perhaps the big data academic community should be harassed until they do this
21:32 < catern> that seems a bit risky
21:33 < kanzure> they are already doing those studies
21:33 < kanzure> and they also do studies on "malware"
21:33 < kanzure> they don't seem to get permission from the copyright owners of the malware
21:33 < catern> heh
21:33 < kanzure> freaking double standards, man
21:33 < catern> the copyright owners of the malware also don't have lawyers
21:33 < catern> probably
21:34 < kanzure> no, they are lawyers
21:34 < fenn> ok since i couldn't download it from libgen.in, here's what i do have http://fennetic.net/irc/libgen_torrents_0-832.7z
21:34 < kanzure> DRM malware is almost universally the result of lawyer involvement
21:34 < fenn> (just file lists and hashes, not the actual data)
21:35 < catern> i bet someone out there could think of clever solutions for this
21:36 < kanzure> bill gates should just buy elsevier
21:36 < kanzure> how's that for fucking philanthropic bill
21:37  * kanzure drops mic
21:38 < fenn> there's also index 0-824.csv which has these fields: "ID","Title","VolumeInfo","Series","Periodical","Author","Year","Edition","Publisher","City","Pages","Language","Topic","Librar
21:38 < fenn> y","Issue","Identifier","ISSN","ASIN","UDC","LBC","DDC","LCC","Doi","Googlebookid","Commentary","DPI","Color","Cleaned","Orient
21:38 < fenn> ation","Paginated","Scanned","Vector","Bookmarked","Searchable","Filesize","Extension","MD5","CRC32","eDonkey","AICH","SHA1","T
21:38 < fenn> TH","Generic","Filename","Visible","Locator","Local","TimeAdded","TimeLastModified","Coverurl"
21:38 < catern> doing things when the law is against you sure is annoying, you can't publicize to ask for help
21:38 < kanzure> buying elsevier is not against the law
21:38 < catern> we should make a chain of trust of people who aren't narcs
21:39 < fenn> and use snarks to do it?
21:39 < catern>  /s
21:39 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/bitcoin/snarks/
21:39 < fenn> SNARKS AGAINST NARCS - PROUDLY WANKING SINCE WORMS AGAINST NUCLEAR KILLERS
21:40 < kanzure> perhaps something like a proof of narc
21:40 < kanzure> or proof of narf
21:40 < fenn> proof of whorage
21:43 < fenn> i don't actually know what a snark is
21:44 < catern> one important thing is to just
21:44 < catern> get this dataset into as many hands as possible
21:45 < catern> by that I mean disks
21:45 < catern> because it's big enough that it actually takes time to get if you have some clever idea for doing something with it
21:45 < kanzure> fenn: http://diyhpl.us/wiki/transcripts/mit-bitcoin-expo-2015/zerocash-and-zero-knowledge-succint-arguments-of-knowledge-libsnark/
21:45 < kanzure> "There must be proof. We also want this to be zero knowledge. Bob must not learn a nything about Alice's transaction history by examining the proof. It must be non-interactive, which means that Bob can verify the correctness without interacting with any accountant digital or real. It must be posted on the ledger. It must be succinct. Small and easy to verify. Finally, we want the cryptographic property known as proof-of-knowledge. We ...
21:46 < kanzure> ... want to ensure that Alice knows the secret behind the transaction. What does it mean that there exists a signature? We want to know that Alice knows the signing key for such a signature"
21:46 < kanzure> "All of those properties when taken together are actually impossible. So we relax this from being a proof to being an argument. It holds if cryptography is not broken. If you take all of them together now, a succinct non-interactive proof of knowledge, called snark. This is call zkSNARK when put together."
21:46 < fenn> shouldnt it be called "non interactive argument of knowledge" then
21:46 < kanzure> ask -wizards
21:47 < fenn> anyway how is this not just a signature
21:47 < fenn> alice signs whatever, therefore she has the signature
21:47 < fenn> er, therefore she has the key
21:48 < kanzure> andytoshi: you want to take this one?
21:49 < catern> maybe as disk capacity grows this will become easier
21:49 < catern> (distributing this dataset)
21:49 < kanzure> dataset will grow only faster
21:50 < catern> eh
21:50 < catern> paper output isn't growing exponentially is it?
21:50 < fenn> storage is growing faster than publishing
21:50 < kanzure> i think we are up to +10 million/year
21:50 < kanzure> wait i might be off by an order of magnitude
21:51 < fenn> bandwidth is not keeping up though
21:51 < kanzure> between 1 and 10 million/year
21:51 < catern> no way is that going to grow exponentially
21:51 < kanzure> as academia has its last death throws there will be a tremendous spike
21:52 < fenn> i dont get why the db dumps are ~10 times the size of the .csv file
21:52 < kanzure> they might be sql dumps
21:52 < kanzure> so, syntax
21:53 < kanzure> "INSERT INTO (blah, blah, blah) VALUES (blah, blah, blah)"
21:54 < fenn> that compresses out pretty well
21:55 < fenn> i'm thinking maybe it has cover thumbnail images
21:56 < kanzure> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwyF176ToJ4&t=8s
21:59 < fenn> it's even better in german
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22:01 < fenn> eta 13h 45m isn't too bad i guess
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22:05 < kanzure_> chimpanzee using a touch screen https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkNV0rSndJ0
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22:06 < kanzure_> chimpanzee using a touch screen https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkNV0rSndJ0
22:07 < kanzure_> "let's play pacman (with a chimpanzee)" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7ttRaXlnfs
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22:08 < kanzure_> that's the coolest job ever
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22:12 < fenn> i'm impressed with how well they play pacman, but the number sequence thing shows just how different we are
22:12 < fenn> unless that's just due to huge amounts of practice
22:13 < kanzure_> when i am doing tasks like that i usually offload almost everything into motor planning and peripheral vision
22:14 < fenn> time to take kanzure down to the primate lab for testing
22:15 < kanzure_> they should breed the chimps based on pacman scores
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22:40 < sheena> i only read the stuff around my mention, not stuff in the middle.
22:41 < sheena> anyone wanna teach me how/if i can overclock a laptop?
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--- Log closed Thu Mar 12 00:00:19 2015