--- Log opened Fri Mar 13 00:00:10 2015 --- Day changed Fri Mar 13 2015 00:00 < fenn> delinquentme: that was the most terrible science article i've read in a while 00:02 < fenn> .title http://www.sciencemag.org/content/347/6227/1221.full 00:02 < yoleaux> Synthesis of many different types of organic small molecules using one automated process 00:02 < fenn> oh, this is the paper nmz787 just linked to 00:08 -!- Panko_ [~Panko@p2216-ipngn100104sinnagasak.nagasaki.ocn.ne.jp] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:10 * fenn pecks at Panko_ 00:10 < Panko_> eep 00:12 < justanotheruser> why can't research papers have catchy titles like "You won't believe how many different organic molecules this one neat automated process can be used to synthesize" and "7 ways the chi-squared test is the greatest thing ever" 00:12 < fenn> they can 00:12 < justanotheruser> are they in the buzzfeed journal of medicine? 00:22 < fenn> justanotheruser: i guess you didn't see this: http://www.oneweirdkerneltrick.com 00:23 < fenn> ""Statistics Professors HATE Him! Doctor's discovery revealed the secret to learning any problem with just 10 training samples. Watch this shocking video and learn how rapidly you can find a solution to your learning problems using this one sneaky kernel trick!" 00:24 < justanotheruser> they spent way too much time on this http://www.oneweirdkerneltrick.com/swaggr.pdf 00:25 < fenn> adderall.. 00:27 < fenn> kanzure do you think your android market scraper still works? 00:27 < fenn> downloader thingy 00:56 -!- Dumpster_D1ver [~loki@pool-151-200-31-189.washdc.btas.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:59 < catern> justanotheruser: no, it was a paper submitted for SIGBOVIK 01:00 < catern> justanotheruser: so that effort did not go to waste 01:02 < fenn> .wik sigbovik 01:02 < yoleaux> "Alan Conrad Bovik (born June 25, 1958) is an American engineer, and Curry/Cullen Trust Endowed Chair Professor at The University of Texas at Austin, and Director of the Laboratory for Image and Video Engineering (LIVE)." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Bovik 01:03 < fenn> hm... 01:03 < fenn> our flagship conference SIGBOVIK (the conference of the ACH Special Interest Group on Harry Qualia Bovik) 01:04 < fenn> held April 1 01:04 < fenn> heh the name changes each page reload 01:06 -!- delinquentme [~delinquen@74.61.157.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:24 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:24 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:15 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:21 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:53 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:57 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:02 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:03 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:10 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:21 < archels> Randal Koene lives! 03:21 < archels> (and posts to the OpenWorm mailing list) 03:47 -!- zadock [~zadock@muscalu.tuiasi.ro] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:33 < archels> thanks Springer, for getting back to me over my Nov 28th, 2014 support e-mail notifying you of a corrupted PDF 04:33 < chris_99> haha 04:33 < archels> thanks also for saying that it has been "fixed" while not actually doing anything 05:00 -!- Dumpster_D1ver [~loki@pool-151-200-31-189.washdc.btas.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:12 -!- Shannon [~Shannon@unaffiliated/shannon] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:38 -!- zadock [~zadock@muscalu.tuiasi.ro] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:58 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r167-57-17-127.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:05 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r167-57-17-127.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:07 < kanzure> fenn: yes, because they can't afford to deprecate their api 06:09 < kanzure> someone should write an essay (oops i mean blog post) explaining why bill gates should just buy elsevier 06:09 < kanzure> or instead of saying bill gates you could use a clever acronym like BGE (bill gates equivalent) 06:43 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:44 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:45 -!- drewbot [~cinch@ec2-54-144-212-208.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:45 -!- drewbot [~cinch@ec2-54-144-212-208.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:52 -!- Shannon [~Shannon@unaffiliated/shannon] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:56 -!- TK_ [~TK@85.253.74.167.cable.starman.ee] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:11 -!- delinquentme [~delinquen@74.61.157.78] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:20 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-oqqfqnnjaltanfqf] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:36 -!- cluckj [~cluckj@c-71-225-211-210.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:50 -!- delinquentme [~delinquen@74.61.157.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:04 -!- the8thbit|work is now known as the8thbit 08:23 < andytoshi> maaku: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_aPLOwJkds very exciting talk by sean carroll (mainly exciting because of the real-time arguing going on amongst the physicists in the room) on the born rule 08:24 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:27 -!- delinquentme [~delinquen@74.61.157.78] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:32 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:33 -!- tschmidt [~timschmid@13-67-23.client.wireless.msu.edu] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:34 -!- tschmidt [~timschmid@13-67-23.client.wireless.msu.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 08:41 -!- timschmidt [~timschmid@13-67-23.client.wireless.msu.edu] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:51 -!- TK_ [~TK@85.253.74.167.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:55 -!- Panko_ [~Panko@p2216-ipngn100104sinnagasak.nagasaki.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:56 -!- delinquentme [~delinquen@74.61.157.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:59 -!- Dumpster_D1ver [~loki@pool-151-200-31-189.washdc.btas.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:08 -!- JayDugger [~jwdugger@pool-173-74-74-250.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:28 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-oqqfqnnjaltanfqf] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 09:30 -!- Zinglon [~Zinglon@ip565f6f48.direct-adsl.nl] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:36 -!- nmz787_i [~ntmccork@134.134.137.75] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:52 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:55 -!- delinquentme [~delinquen@2602:306:308b:8ba0:901f:a361:63a4:f338] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:57 < maaku> andytoshi: thanks 10:02 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:05 -!- Zinglon [~Zinglon@ip565f6f48.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:07 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:09 -!- Beatzebub_ [~beatzebub@d75-156-90-64.bchsia.telus.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:09 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:11 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Client Quit] 10:11 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:12 -!- Beatzebub [~beatzebub@d75-156-90-64.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:21 < nmz787_i> kanzure: do you like these? http://ergodox.org/ 10:23 < kanzure> not really, but JayDugger does 10:23 < kanzure> and dingo 10:23 < kanzure> maybe not those specifically 10:23 < kanzure> i am not a fan of ergonomic keyboards 10:23 < nmz787_i> ah 10:24 < nmz787_i> some folks around here are going to do a group build of those 10:24 < kanzure> :( 10:25 < kanzure> they should make superfast keyboards instead (all existing designs are not superfast) 10:25 < kanzure> on a related note, we are not anywhere close to maximum information extraction from hand and finger movements per second 10:27 < kanzure> 10-15 keystrokes/second does not seem to be the maximum 10:28 < kanzure> (and really this is 10-15 keystrokes/second over a set of possible keystrokes) 10:36 < nmz787_i> i will pass your comments along 10:38 < kanzure> i wonder if electric shocks applied immediately after a keystroke has been registered would be a aster way to disengage from a single keystroke 10:38 < kanzure> s/aster/faster 10:49 < chris_99> i thought of making a keyboard training system, that electrocutes you if you get the key wrong 10:51 < nmz787_i> :O 10:52 < chris_99> maybe it gives you chocolate if you get it right 10:57 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qbhifdkxgzfbcpye] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:00 < kanzure> cocaine would be more effective 11:01 < chris_99> mmm heh 11:10 -!- nmz787_i [~ntmccork@134.134.137.75] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:14 -!- nmz787_i [ntmccork@nat/intel/x-jhzlresfsvrwzhrs] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:15 < kanzure> if you could convince bill gates to buy eslevier, what would you tell him to do with it 11:15 < maaku> why give eslevier an exit? 11:16 -!- delinquentme [~delinquen@2602:306:308b:8ba0:901f:a361:63a4:f338] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:16 < kanzure> maaku: to buy all their papers 11:16 < kanzure> and then release them, i suppose. but you still need to wind down their physical publishing operations. and pay their illustrators, etc. 11:17 < maaku> i'd rather have BGE destroy their business model and destroy them, and then pick up the papers for pennies on the dollar 11:17 < kanzure> bill gates is probably 100% uninterested in having his foundation run elsevier 11:17 < kanzure> that sort of fight may not be possible 11:17 < kanzure> and i encourage you to think of alternatives 11:17 < kanzure> because a good solution to the problem is worth... lots. 11:17 < kanzure> lots of existential karmic points, at least 11:19 < maaku> andytoshi: i really wish Sean Carroll would introduce the concept in some other way 11:19 < maaku> self-locating uncertainty is the most uninteresting problem ever 11:23 < maaku> "when I get to the end of the slides is when you can ask me all the questions about whether or not there is really self-locating uncertainty" <-- yeah I'm not the only one 11:28 < andytoshi> maaku: i was unaware that you colud get the born probabilities from self-locating uncertainty 11:29 < andytoshi> and it implies answers to all sorts of silly philosophical problems (eg i flip a coin, heads i wake you up twice but wipe your memory the first time, tails i wake up up once, when you wake up what do you except the coin flip to be?) 11:29 < andytoshi> so i wouldn't say "most uninteresting problem ever" 11:30 < maaku> yeah that's why i'm sticking through the video, because of the born probabilities. 11:30 < andytoshi> you're gonna be disappointed, he does like one slide and says "it's technical, see the paper" 11:30 < andytoshi> i haven't read it yet, i have some background reading first.. 11:30 < maaku> oh ok 11:31 < maaku> but i think carroll is confused on self-locating problems. we don't have access to the outside view so it isn't actually a problem 11:31 < maaku> which instance are we? we are the instance that we are, where ever and which ever that one is. it's a non-issue 11:32 < andytoshi> short answer for how born probs appear: for states with equal amplitude, you get a uniform probability for each from this ESP thing; for states with non-equal amplitude, you can consider them as sums of states with equal amplitude and you wind up with the appropriate number of copies of each state that the born probabilities appear 11:33 < andytoshi> well, it's a problem because in repeated experiments you see these probabilistic results which correspond to "random choices by the universe" following the born probabilities 11:33 < andytoshi> and the question you ask is "why do i predict that will happen?" 11:33 < andytoshi> and i think, for each repitition of the experiment you can ask the self-locating problem, and this will predict 11:34 < andytoshi> but i am almost certainly confused, i haven't done enough reading. maybe i'm wrong 11:39 -!- delinquentme [~delinquen@2604:5500:27:1fa:901f:a361:63a4:f338] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:43 -!- dingo [dingo@1984.ws] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:43 -!- dingo [dingo@1984.ws] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:00 -!- rak[1] [~rak@stallman.cse.ohio-state.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:14 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:22 -!- Zinglon [~Zinglon@ip565f6f48.direct-adsl.nl] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:23 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:36 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:40 < dingo> nmz787: i only became a fan of ergonomic keyboards when i developed rheumatoid arthritis 12:41 < dingo> as for "superfast keyboards", i suspect the DataHand (as seen in the movie Contact) might do it 12:41 < dingo> anyway i use a kinesis for several years now, very happy with it, esp. the "thumboard" for ctrl/alt/meta/backspace/delete/return/spacebar 12:41 < dingo> it also supports recording macros and remapping keys in hardware which is nice 12:42 < dingo> my capslock is escape, as a vi user 12:42 < dingo> and sometimes when i got shitty sysadmin jobs with repetitive passwords i would just record them as macros, cause bah, its just a job 12:42 < dingo> i also use the evoluent vertical mouse, a lot of people have success with that for hand pain 12:43 < dingo> but i solved that issue by ensuring my jobs don't include web/gui's and keep me in the terminals 12:45 < dingo> and i'm actually quite happy google code is shutting down, i have project pages now on github, but i can't delete the google code ones because i deleted my google account years and years ago. 12:46 < dingo> and i had to submit a bug report through launchpad the other day, i would have submitted a patch too, but after 15 minutes of trying to figure the shit out, i gave up anyway. and i noticed their version releases and code tree weren't in synch with pypi and i just said fuckit 12:46 < dingo> and i get so frustrated making pull requests on bitbucket, so annoying, such a terrible navigation UI, i can never find what i'm looking for 12:46 < dingo> i'm actually quite happy with a monoculture around github ;p 12:47 < dingo> i've hosted OSS projects for a long time, and its only until github that I started getting random patches/pull requests/bug reports from strangers so fluidly 12:48 < kanzure> i believe JayDugger has a datahand somewhere 12:48 < kanzure> yes launchpad is still incomprehensible 12:54 < dingo> " 12:54 < dingo> Several documentation spelling, grammar, or technical errors were discovered but unreported because the offending project is not on Github. The "drive by" costs of signing up for a mailing list to email a patch or find and/or reset a bitbucket password and learn enough mercurial again just isn't worth it. For example, I found a bug in the stty(1) manpage of FreeBSD regarding imaxcanon: I won't be creating a bugzilla account for a 1-line diff anytime soon." 12:54 < dingo> i wrote this on my bloggie wog 12:56 < kanzure> btw you can email stuff to a mailing list without subscribing. it's up to them to configure their mailing list appropriately (moderation, etc). 12:56 -!- zadock [~zadock@81.180.210.87] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:58 < kanzure> permabranches in mercurial still confuse me. why would that be the default recommended workflow? submit a fix and even after merging you have to carry that branch around forever? seems a little odd. 13:01 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:03 -!- delinquentme [~delinquen@2604:5500:27:1fa:901f:a361:63a4:f338] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:03 -!- delinquentme [~delinquen@2604:5500:27:1fa:901f:a361:63a4:f338] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:05 < nmz787_i> huh, datahand looks pretty cool... seeems like it wouldn't be terrible to reproduce with 3d scanning and printing 13:06 < kanzure> there would have to be a good reason first 13:07 < nmz787_i> .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yn-rNdYZAY 13:07 < yoleaux> DarNES - Netflix Hack Day - Winter 2015 - YouTube 13:16 -!- paperlooker [~ben@50-79-188-182-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:17 < paperlooker> WHAT HAPPENED TO PAPERBOT T_T 13:17 < paperlooker> did I miss his funeral? 13:17 < justanotheruser> it looks like he left the channel 13:17 < paperlooker> kanzure: ^ T_T 13:17 -!- paperbot [~paperbot@unaffiliated/kanzure/bot/paperbot] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:18 < paperlooker> \o/ 13:18 < paperlooker> paperbot: http://jla.sagepub.com/content/19/6/569.full.pdf+html 13:18 < paperbot> http://libgen.info/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1177%2F2211068214543373 13:19 < paperlooker> paperbot: http://jla.sagepub.com/content/19/6/569.long 13:19 < paperbot> http://libgen.info/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1177%2F2211068214543373 13:20 < paperlooker> 404, damn 13:23 -!- paperlooker [~ben@50-79-188-182-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.1.1] 13:25 -!- Zinglon [~Zinglon@ip565f6f48.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:29 < nmz787_i> buh bye! 13:51 -!- nmz787_i [ntmccork@nat/intel/x-jhzlresfsvrwzhrs] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:53 -!- timschmidt [~timschmid@13-67-23.client.wireless.msu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:56 -!- TK_ [~TK@85.253.74.167.cable.starman.ee] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:00 < kanzure> " we have no evidence human pheromones even exist — and these studies can all be traced back to a single fragrance company called Erox that managed to convince dozens of scientists their two "pheromones" were worth researching in the first place." 14:00 < kanzure> "In a recent review in Proceedings of the Royal Society B, Oxford biologist Tristram Wyatt tells this strange story, starting with a 1991 paper presented at an Erox-funded conference that identified two molecules the company would later patent (androstadienone and estratetraenol) as "putative human pheromones."" 14:05 < kanzure> welp, what's missing for human pheromones to exist? 14:06 < kanzure> let's just steal an insect pheromone and call our test subject "spiderman" 14:07 -!- zadock [~zadock@81.180.210.87] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:14 -!- TK_ [~TK@85.253.74.167.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:25 -!- Zinglon [~Zinglon@ip565f6f48.direct-adsl.nl] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:33 -!- nmz787_i [ntmccork@nat/intel/x-royhldecunsjbiyn] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:36 -!- Shannon [~Shannon@unaffiliated/shannon] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:36 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:44 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:45 -!- zadock [~zadock@81.180.210.87] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:54 -!- timschmidt [~timschmid@c-98-243-197-48.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:59 -!- sheena [~home@S0106c8be196316d1.ok.shawcable.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:11 < heath> dingo: kudos, i might one day go back to a desktop and use a keyboard not attached to a monitor 15:14 < dingo> < nmz787_i> huh, datahand looks pretty cool... seeems like it wouldn't be terrible to reproduce with 3d scanning and printing 15:14 < dingo> somebody has indeed started work on that 15:15 < dingo> https://github.com/dodohand/dodohand 15:15 < dingo> https://github.com/Henry/TTHand 15:16 < kanzure> too bad keyboards don't make roaring engine noise, otherwise we might have formula one hedge funds investing in superfast keyboard engineering 15:23 < dingo> I'm pretty satisfied with the kinesis so far. An employer bought it for me so I didn't have to put down much money :) The USB cable connector frayed last year, and I contacted support and they sent me a new connector for just $15. 15:23 < dingo> if it fails permenently I'll buy the pro model for myself 15:24 < dingo> I really need to stop tying so much with my primary fingers.... woops 15:24 < dingo> typing 15:24 < kanzure> yeah i wouldn't mind using fingers four and five more often but that doesn't happen a much as i'd like 15:24 < kanzure> *as much as 15:25 < kanzure> qwerty is laid out in such a way that i don't think you can really get much use out of them 15:25 < kanzure> assigning them to only four or five keys is dumb 15:27 -!- delinquentme [~delinquen@2604:5500:27:1fa:901f:a361:63a4:f338] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:27 < dingo> Optimizations is worth it... I went for dvorak as a teenager and it was very frustrating to type slow again, switching to kinesis had the same effect. Fortunately the muscle memory of a kinesis layout doesn't seem to harm my muscle memory on other keyboards like dvorak did... dvorak just fucked me, I could just switch some mental bank rom, it was frustrating to switch 15:28 < dingo> but being able to type as fast as you think/want text on the screen is very helpful, there is a sort of buffer, once that buffer fills, you're losing what you were thinking like a limited FILO queue 15:29 < dingo> I'm pretty comfortable now, anyway, when it comes to writing code, I type as fast as I need to, its 90% revising, editing, debugging, I do just fine "punching out code" at a good pace 15:30 < kanzure> i am totally bored typing long sentences that i planned entire seconds ago, it's a complete waste of my time 15:36 -!- nmz787_i1 [~ntmccork@134.134.139.74] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:38 -!- nmz787_i [ntmccork@nat/intel/x-royhldecunsjbiyn] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:39 -!- zadock [~zadock@81.180.210.87] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:40 -!- nmz787_i1 [~ntmccork@134.134.139.74] has left ##hplusroadmap [] 15:41 -!- ryankarason [~rak@opensource.cse.ohio-state.edu] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:49 -!- cluckj [~cluckj@c-71-225-211-210.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:49 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-48-25-110.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:00 -!- Shannon_ [~Shannon@unaffiliated/shannon] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:04 -!- Shannon [~Shannon@unaffiliated/shannon] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:04 -!- Shannon_ is now known as Shannon 16:05 -!- zadock [~zadock@81.180.210.87] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:15 -!- delinquentme [~delinquen@74.61.157.78] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:18 -!- nancy [4a7618a2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.74.118.24.162] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:18 -!- nancy is now known as orangenarwhals 16:19 < orangenarwhals> hello, are people knowledgeable about skdb around 16:20 < eudoxia> kanzure, fenn: ping 16:25 < orangenarwhals> "what is the status" 16:25 < orangenarwhals> "what block(ed) adoption" 16:27 < eudoxia> status is p. much dead 16:28 < eudoxia> what blocked adoption is, well, it was never really finished, or fully specified i think 16:28 < orangenarwhals> are the needs it was addressing still relevant 16:28 < orangenarwhals> (thanks!) 16:29 -!- timschmidt [~timschmid@c-98-243-197-48.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:30 < eudoxia> well, the needs it tried to address were: a package manager for open manufacturing 16:30 < eudoxia> that has yet to happen 16:31 < orangenarwhals> i see 16:31 < orangenarwhals> hmm 16:31 < orangenarwhals> okay, that is different then 16:31 < orangenarwhals> i'm attempting to figure out how to ensure open source hardware design tools lead the way instead of catch up 16:32 < orangenarwhals> 1) money: which companies subsidize this with money or engineering team 16:32 < orangenarwhals> ala google and angular.js 16:32 < orangenarwhals> or google summer of code 16:32 < kanzure> hello eudoxia 16:32 < eudoxia> hello kanzure 16:33 < kanzure> orangenarwhals: i think that someone should finish verbnurbs 16:33 < kanzure> there should be surface-surface intersection and then it will be good to go 16:33 < eudoxia> kanzure: not related, but what does your meetlog look like, structurally/schema-wise? 16:33 < orangenarwhals> kanzure: thanks 16:36 < kanzure> eudoxia: schema is pretty bad, it's [{date: {net: [{: (list of tags) or a dictionary like {tags: list of tags, time: temporal duration, address: stalkdata, emails: stalkdata, etc...}}], phone: [], inperson: [], sms: []}] 16:38 < eudoxia> kanzure: thanks 16:41 -!- orangenarwhals [4a7618a2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.74.118.24.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:42 -!- orangenarwhals [4a7618a2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.74.118.24.162] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:43 < orangenarwhals> apologies -- my entire computer froze, which hasn't happened before :/ (idk i blame systemd? :P) 16:43 < orangenarwhals> ...was anything directed at me since verbnurbs 16:44 < eudoxia> you can check logs here: http://gnusha.org/logs/2015-03-13.log 16:44 < orangenarwhals> ah -- I forgot, logs 16:45 < orangenarwhals> Thanks. 16:45 < orangenarwhals> Well, I was specifically recommended to check out skdb, but ultimately it appears more concentrated on the manufacturing side than the design tool side. 16:46 < orangenarwhals> What large companies would benefit from open source design tools? 16:46 < kanzure> are you asking "which companies would benefit from cad software"? 16:46 < orangenarwhals> essentially 16:47 < orangenarwhals> people tend to think CAD = solidmodel/meche and EDA = ee, though 16:48 < orangenarwhals> people are very excited about onshape and there's an explosion of solidmodel tools right now 16:48 < orangenarwhals> *open source 16:48 < orangenarwhals> openSCAD, freeCAD, verbnurb, i could go on 16:49 < kanzure> openscad sucks 16:49 < kanzure> freecad sucks because opencascade is an unmaintainable pile of shit 16:49 < orangenarwhals> Precisely. Everything sucks right now. 16:49 < kanzure> verbnurbs' primary downside is that it does not have surface-surface intersection and that it is in javascript, but is otherwise wonderful 16:50 < kanzure> also he may have implemented surface-surface intersection since i last looked 16:50 < orangenarwhals> mmm 16:50 < kanzure> ? 16:50 < orangenarwhals> FreeCAD = solidworks 2000 16:50 < kanzure> no 16:50 < orangenarwhals> openSCAD = functional programming for CAD 16:50 < kanzure> opencascade is not as stable as solidworks 2000, you are lying to me and i hate you 16:50 < orangenarwhals> uh... okay. 16:50 < kanzure> argh 16:50 < orangenarwhals> I'm merely thinking out loud. 16:50 < kanzure> you are wrong though 16:51 < orangenarwhals> Solvespace = windows only 16:51 < kanzure> btw here are my notes about opencascade http://diyhpl.us/wiki/cad/opencascade 16:51 < kanzure> solidworks 2000 was using parasolid at the time anyway (i think solidworks still does anyway?) 16:51 < orangenarwhals> Solidworks = limited to single core, slow 16:53 < orangenarwhals> My friend opined that "saying you built something faster than solidworks is like saying a car is faster than a camel," which I think is something open source software could address 16:53 < orangenarwhals> open file formats are another key issue 16:53 < orangenarwhals> version control of text-based file formats 16:54 < orangenarwhals> Thanks -- I will forward CASCADE to my "solidworks is slow for these engineering reasons" friend 16:54 < kanzure> no, don't forward opencascade 16:54 < orangenarwhals> *opencascade 16:54 < kanzure> you're totally missing my point 16:54 < orangenarwhals> which is? 16:54 < kanzure> that it fucking sucks 16:54 < kanzure> freecad uses opencascade. that's how it works. 16:54 < kanzure> and that is why freecad has been unable to become not buggy 16:55 < kanzure> opencascade is like 5 million lines of poorly written code 16:55 < kanzure> written in french, russian and english. at the same time. 16:55 < kanzure> all of their variable names are like aMPBLPB 16:55 < orangenarwhals> Hmm. What funded opencascade development? 16:55 < kanzure> matra datavision, a french military contractor in the 80s 16:55 < orangenarwhals> It sounds like there was commercial 16:55 < orangenarwhals> ah 16:56 < kanzure> opennurbs would be good if they distributed testcases and the intersection algorithms, but brlcad has lately reimplemented some of those (i have a partial reimplementation in python but i stopped when i found verbnurbs) 16:59 < orangenarwhals> Let's say I want to do my entire derpy maker project using open design tools. What would this ideally entail? 17:00 < orangenarwhals> For instance, right now, my alternative is 17:01 < orangenarwhals> Solidworks/Inventor/OnShape (DXF for lasercutter, STL for printing, SLDWRK for machining) + DipTrace/Eagle/Altium (gerber) 17:01 < orangenarwhals> everything managed through dropbox. 17:01 < orangenarwhals> or github. 17:02 -!- AmbulatoryCortex [~Ambulator@173-31-9-188.client.mchsi.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:02 < orangenarwhals> The state of the art in open source CAD right now, I imagine, is something like 17:02 < orangenarwhals> actually, I have no idea. 17:03 < orangenarwhals> Wings3D or SpaceSolver or FreeCAD -> SVG for lasercutter, STL for printing, ?? for machining. 17:03 < orangenarwhals> KiCAD for gerbers. 17:03 < orangenarwhals> Would ideally these tools be able to talk to each other 17:06 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:06 < orangenarwhals> Nah, okay, my instinct is someone has spent a lot of time trying to make these file formats already 17:06 < orangenarwhals> so the issue is not the format but the intermediary translation toolset 17:06 < kanzure> i don't understand why you would have to use dropbox, that's the stupidest requirement ever. how about just "store files wherever i want"? 17:06 < orangenarwhals> For collaboration. 17:06 < kanzure> you are surprisingly infuriating 17:06 < orangenarwhals> haha 17:07 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:07 < orangenarwhals> I'd take that as a compliment from my friends, generally they think I'm surprisingly agreeable 17:07 < kanzure> as for translation formats you could always use http://stepcode.org/ (i think their site may be down; their git repo is available on github, and brlcad vendorizes their library anyway) 17:08 < kanzure> for some reason you keep recommending freecad even after i told you it's unmaintainable 17:08 < kanzure> how does that not make you completely evil 17:08 < kanzure> are you a programmer? 17:08 < orangenarwhals> hmm, well I make my living right now writing code 17:08 < orangenarwhals> I tend to think I'm an engineer. 17:09 < kanzure> have you read opencascade source code? 17:09 < orangenarwhals> Not at all! 17:09 < orangenarwhals> I'm merely observing that from the end user perspective 17:09 < kanzure> you should perhaps do that before committing to maintaining projects, or asking me to maintain those projects >:( 17:09 < orangenarwhals> FreeCAD is probably the most acceptable thing so far. 17:09 < kanzure> screw end users, give me something that works for myself, and then i'll consider adding sugar for others later 17:09 < orangenarwhals> what? 17:09 < kanzure> freecad is completely unacceptable 17:09 < orangenarwhals> I'm not asking you to do anything... 17:09 < kanzure> it crashes all the time and even basic operations like extrusion totally fails 17:10 < orangenarwhals> I'm merely trying to make sure I am mapping the state of the art correctly 17:10 < kanzure> the other day i sent them a bug report about circles inside of squares not working for values < 0.47 (doesn't matter what units) 17:10 < kanzure> and they had to shrug because opencascade is terrible 17:10 < kanzure> how is that a good user experience? you are crazy 17:10 < kanzure> argh 17:10 < kanzure> well i am a user, and you shouldn't ignore my concerns 17:10 < orangenarwhals> Err, I agree it's terrible 17:10 < kanzure> just because i am a developer does not mean that you get to inflict terrible solutions on me 17:10 < orangenarwhals> I agree the state of the art is terrible... 17:10 < kanzure> opencascade is pretty much not good 17:11 < kanzure> okay maybe by "most acceptable" you meant "not" 17:11 < orangenarwhals> hold on, let me switch to a real interface, this browser irc client seems to not have auto-last message 17:12 -!- nrw_ [~nrw@74.118.24.162] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:12 < nrw_> test 17:12 -!- orangenarwhals [4a7618a2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.74.118.24.162] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:12 < nrw_> okay, more acceptable 17:12 < nrw_> oh, huh, george church was my PI's PI 17:12 < nrw_> lol 17:12 < nrw_> anyway 17:13 < nrw_> It seems to me like one major expertise hole right now is usability and UI design 17:13 < kanzure> hardly 17:13 < kanzure> there's nothing to make a ui around 17:13 < kanzure> that can't possibly be true 17:13 < nrw_> (on top of the engine issues, aka opencascade) 17:14 < nrw_> The other issue is money and a more unified vision, as well as spec'ing of the exact feature-set we should be aiming toward 17:15 < nrw_> Maybe we could get one of the manufacutring equipment companies to sponsor us, not sure 17:15 < kanzure> i have tried to find osmeone to pay to implement nurbs kernels but i haven't found anyone yet 17:16 < kanzure> largely because i would have to tell them how to do it, and i have already spent too much time on busted implementations 17:16 < kanzure> money is not the problem 17:16 < nrw_> for instance, money is being dumped by companies into hackathons right now so they can eventually hire talent 17:16 < nrw_> haha 17:16 < nrw_> well that's good to hear 17:16 < kanzure> no that's bad to hear 17:16 < kanzure> money is easy to buy 17:16 < kanzure> money is the easiest thing to buy 17:16 < nrw_> time and expertise are the issues then? 17:16 < nrw_> in your opinion 17:16 < kanzure> by comparison finding someone you can pay to implement an actual nurbs kernel is difficult 17:17 < kanzure> (who you do not have to instruct) 17:17 < nrw_> why is that? 17:17 < nrw_> ah, I see 17:17 < kanzure> because there's no straightforward implementation 17:17 < kanzure> that's why i like verbnurbs, i don't have to tell that guy how to do his job 17:17 < kanzure> here are some papers on implementation details http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/cad/ 17:17 < nrw_> hmm okay verbnurbs seems to resolve your issue with openSCAD 17:17 < nrw_> sorr 17:17 < nrw_> opencascade 17:17 < nrw_> after that what is the issue 17:18 < kanzure> pretty much the only peopel who have written working nurbs kernels in the past are just phd people who spend 2-3 years on the problem, ugh 17:18 < nrw_> (the ugh is because they stop maintaining and it rots?) 17:18 < kanzure> that's the only problem in my opinion. nobody truly cares about ui (the existence of autolisp and openscad and cadquery show this) 17:18 < kanzure> no te ugh is because i don't know any of those people 17:18 < kanzure> *the 17:18 < kanzure> and i haven't been able to find them 17:18 < kanzure> they are all dead 17:19 < nrw_> wat 17:19 < kanzure> well people die 17:19 < kanzure> that happens 17:19 < kanzure> ROMULUS was made in the 70s dude 17:19 < nrw_> Haha, well, that's interesting 17:19 < nrw_> "no one cares about UI" is an ... interesting stance 17:19 < kanzure> ui is not a serious problem here 17:20 < kanzure> the reason why no ui exists is because there's nothing to do with a potential ui anyway 17:20 < kanzure> it has nothing to do with cad problems 17:20 < nrw_> Okay. What are the design issues with CAD right now? 17:20 < kanzure> no open source nurbs kernel that works and is maintainable and has public unit tests 17:21 -!- Shannon_ [~Shannon@unaffiliated/shannon] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:21 < kanzure> with the possible exception of brlcad's bastardized version of opennurbs, and the partially-existing implementation in verbnurbs, of course 17:21 < kanzure> both brlcad's bastardization of opennurbs, and verbnurbs, are relatively recent developments (i mean.. they both happened more than 1 year ago at this point, but that counts as recent) 17:22 < kanzure> the other thing about verbnurbs is that it would mean i have to commit myself to a lifetime of javascript and i don't know if i am willing to write that much js 17:22 < kanzure> again that's why i wrote a python reimplementation of verbnurbs 17:22 < kanzure> oh wait, i mean python reimplementation of opennurbs 17:23 < kanzure> so i may have to do the same for verbnurbs :\ 17:23 < kanzure> (my reimplementation of opennurbs is called lolcad) 17:23 < nrw_> I see 17:24 -!- Shannon [~Shannon@unaffiliated/shannon] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:24 -!- Shannon_ is now known as Shannon 17:24 < nrw_> What is the relationship of newtonian solvers to nurbs? If you don't mind my asking 17:26 < kanzure> nurbs is what parasolid and acis use (solidworks, autocad, catia, pro/engineer, anything remotely respectalbe) 17:26 < kanzure> (opencascade also happens to be an implementation of a nurbs kernel) 17:27 < kanzure> looks like you are referring to an approximation method 17:27 < kanzure> of some kind... 17:27 < kanzure> you can represent perfect spheres with a few bytes of nurbs data 17:29 < nrw_> Ah, I found the quote. " the main interesting thing about Solvespace is the constraint solver, which uses n-dimensional newton iteration and should be able to scale to very large models and very large computers if it is written properly. " 17:29 < kanzure> parametric constraint solving is another chunk of the problem but i don't think that it should be the priority 17:30 < kanzure> you can use gecode or opencascade's implementation 17:30 < kanzure> there's a youtube video floating around that demonstrates python + opencascade + pythonocc + sympy + constraint solving 17:30 < kanzure> for parametric modeling from a python prompt 17:31 < kanzure> you have become much less infuriating 17:32 < nrw_> Well, it's good to know you have strong opinions about the space 17:32 < kanzure> informed opinions 17:34 < nrw_> Do you have contact info for pboyer, the maintener of verbnurbs? 17:34 < nrw_> I desire to ask him what would speed up progress on verbnurbs 17:34 < kanzure> peter.b.boyer@gmail.com 17:34 < kanzure> i believe he presently works at autodesk 17:34 < kanzure> so getting him fired might help 17:35 < nrw_> Haha, well, that's interesting 17:35 < nrw_> Why has autodesk not prohibited him from working on this? 17:35 < kanzure> how is he supposed to get any work done if he's spending all day at autodesk? :| 17:36 < kanzure> well, as far as i know autodesk does not actually implement their cad engine on their own 17:36 < kanzure> they are using a licensed engine called ACIS 17:36 < kanzure> and their contract is probably nowhere near specific enough like "none of your employees will ever write a nurbs kernel ever" 17:37 < kanzure> for some reason i thought they moved ACIS in-house at one point... did that happen.. let me check. 17:37 < kanzure> oh interesting "Autodesk AutoCAD 360 is the official AutoCAD mobile app for Android.[22]" 17:37 < kanzure> i should reverse engineer that 17:38 < kanzure> yeah nevermind, they seem to still be using ACIS 17:38 < kanzure> maybe it was solidworks/parasolid (parasolid is owned and licensed by siemens) 17:41 < nrw_> http://www.123dapp.com/ 17:41 < kanzure> no 17:41 < nrw_> http://www.circuitmaker.com/#why_circuitmaker 17:41 < nrw_> anyway, mobile aside 17:41 < kanzure> no the reason why i should reverse engineer the android autodesk app is because they probably ported ACIS to dalvik maybe.. or they are distributing a shared library. 17:42 < kanzure> and a different platform release is helpful for reverse engineering because you can compare the bytes to their default release 17:42 < nrw_> Ah, apologies, I misunderstood. 17:42 < kanzure> and out falls more useful implementation details 17:43 < kanzure> eudoxia: i think making a better schema than what i've been using would be very simple 17:44 < eudoxia> like instead of mapping dates to categories and lists of interactions, map people with categories of their interactions? 17:44 < kanzure> nah even more basic, like maybe one file per person 17:45 < eudoxia> hm 17:45 < kanzure> or one file per day that gets processed and dumped into separate files 17:45 < kanzure> or a command line interface where i'm not manually editing yaml files for non-automatic data entry 17:45 < kanzure> and also, why should i be tagging conversations anyway? 17:46 < kanzure> and why should i only have one conversation per person per day? none of this makes sense 17:47 < kanzure> "In case anyone is interested we've been able to do this for quite some time for TEM and SEM. One big breakthrough for EM lately was the ability to use direct detectors to look at frozen samples for tomography. With these techniques we can now reconstruct things like ribosomes all the way down to their atomic structure [1]. We used to have to use crystallography for this. [1] http://elifesciences.org/content/2/e00461 " 17:47 < kanzure> paperbot: http://elifesciences.org/content/2/e00461 17:47 < paperbot> http://libgen.info/scimag/get.php?doi=10.7554%2FeLife.00461 17:47 < kanzure> paperbot: http://elifesciences.org/content/elife/2/e00461.full.pdf 17:48 < kanzure> hmph 17:48 < kanzure> "Ribosome structures to near-atomic resolution from thirty thousand cryo-EM particles" 17:49 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/15b2b29992703c1485239b9772bc1396.pdf 17:49 < kanzure> hooray 17:49 < kanzure> "Although electron cryo-microscopy (cryo-EM) single-particle analysis has become an important tool for structural biology of large and flexible macro-molecular assemblies, the technique has not yet reached its full potential. Besides fundamental limits imposed by radiation damage, poor detectors and beam-induced sample movement have been shown to degrade attainable resolutions. A new generation of direct electron detectors may ameliorate ... 17:49 < kanzure> ... both effects. Apart from exhibiting improved signal-to-noise performance, these cameras are also fast enough to follow particle movements during electron irradiation. Here, we assess the potentials of this technology for cryo-EM structure determination. Using a newly developed statistical movie processing approach to compensate for beam-induced movement, we show that ribosome reconstructions with unprecedented resolutions may be ... 17:49 < kanzure> ... calculated from almost two orders of magnitude fewer particles than used previously. Therefore, this methodology may expand the scope of high-resolution cryo-EM to a broad range of biological specimens." 17:52 < fenn> ugh so much backlog today 17:52 < kanzure> "A novel procedure for video-frame alignment was developed that exploits the relatively high accuracy of aligning 16-frame average particles (Figure 2B), as well as the prior knowledge that particles are unlikely to undergo very large rotations or translations during the 1-s exposure. To this purpose, we defined Gaussian prior distributions on the rotations and translations of the video frames, and centered these distributions at the ... 17:52 < kanzure> ... observed orientations for alignments with the corresponding 16-frame average particles." 17:54 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 17:55 < nrw_> Alright, I emailed pboyer. 17:56 < kanzure> "yo dawg, what's up, you should quit and i will pay you to do more stuff, kthx, your friend in time, dogejones" 17:56 < nrw_> nah 17:56 < nrw_> I left it more general than that :) 17:56 < kanzure> "sup" 17:56 -!- Zinglon [~Zinglon@ip565f6f48.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:56 < nrw_> Something like that 17:56 < nrw_> Alright, so back to the topic at hand 17:57 < nrw_> "a common, powerful, and extensible intermediate representation of 17:57 < nrw_> designs. " 17:57 < kanzure> atomically precise scans of ribosomal subunits? 17:57 < nrw_> nah 17:57 < nrw_> sorry, that's you all's topic 17:57 < kanzure> why does it have to be an intermediate representation 17:57 < kanzure> why can't it just be a regular representation 17:57 < nrw_> Hmm, that's what I'm seeking expertise to evaluate 17:58 < kanzure> argh 17:58 < nrw_> Should a papercraf modeler be able to talk to kiCAD and etc. 17:58 < nrw_> ? 17:58 < nrw_> *papercraft 17:58 < kanzure> "shoud interprocess communication continue to be a supported feature" ?? 17:58 < nrw_> wut 17:59 < nrw_> sorry, I apologize. 17:59 < nrw_> papercraft to FreeCAD / whatever 17:59 < nrw_> solidmodels, not EFDA 17:59 < nrw_> *EDA 18:02 < nrw_> hmm 18:02 < nrw_> Okay, well I think that's about as much as I have to think out loud today. 18:02 < kanzure> read these http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/cad/ 18:02 < kanzure> read opencascade source code 18:04 < nrw_> mm, I'm more trying to tease out whether there are design issues impeding the development of Gold Standard open source design tools 18:05 < nrw_> LLVM, gcc, these are industry standard now. 18:05 < nrw_> What is the impediment to a similar proliferation of open source design tools that commercial companies adopt and support and contribute money, development, and expertise to? 18:05 < nrw_> *hardward, CAD, etc. 18:06 < nrw_> whatever you want to call it 18:06 < nrw_> It's a little bit of a chicken and egg game, but it'd be helpful to know if there are key design choice issues. 18:06 < nrw_> chicken and egg = excited end users vs usable interface 18:07 < nrw_> Anyway, I'll probably reappear in a week after reading me some nurbs and poking other people 18:07 < nrw_> Thanks! 18:17 -!- panax [~panax@96-58-127-7.res.bhn.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:24 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-48-25-110.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:27 -!- Shannon [~Shannon@unaffiliated/shannon] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:28 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qbhifdkxgzfbcpye] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 18:46 -!- nrw_ [~nrw@74.118.24.162] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:53 < kanzure> my custom keyboard should be called typomaster9000 19:13 -!- delinquentme [~delinquen@74.61.157.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:25 -!- dustinm [~dustinm@105.ip-167-114-152.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:33 -!- dustinm [~dustinm@105.ip-167-114-152.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:46 < kanzure> hmm 19:49 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:30 -!- zadock [~zadock@81.180.210.87] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:43 -!- zadock [~zadock@81.180.210.87] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:52 < kanzure> "removing small meaningless terms from an equation" is a neat trick 20:59 -!- delinquentme [~delinquen@74.61.157.78] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:02 -!- JayDugger [~jwdugger@pool-173-74-74-250.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:06 -!- delinquentme [~delinquen@74.61.157.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:10 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:19 -!- JayDugger [~jwdugger@pool-173-74-74-250.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:19 < JayDugger> Good evening. 21:28 -!- delinquentme [~delinquen@74.61.157.78] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:31 -!- AmbulatoryCortex [~Ambulator@173-31-9-188.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:48 < nmz787> "For both the 70S and 80S samples, aliquots of 3 μl at a concentration of ∼80 nM were incubated for 30 s on glow-discharged holey carbon grids (Quantifoil R2/2), on which a home-made continuous carbon film (estimated to be ∼30-Å thick) had previously been deposited. Grids were blotted for 2.5 s and plunge-frozen in liquid ethane using an FEI Vitrobot. Grids were transferred to an FEI Polara G2 microscope that was operated at 300 kV. A ... 21:49 < nmz787> ... C2 aperture of 70 μm and an objective aperture of 100 μm were used. Defocus was varied from 1.3 to 3.8 μm. Using an extraction voltage of 3900 V, a gun lens setting of 2 and a spotsize of 4 or 5, an estimated dose of 16 electrons/Å2 was applied during 1-s exposures. The beam used was larger than the Quantifoil hole, illuminating the carbon all around the hole. Images were recorded at the approximate center of the hole on a ... 21:49 < nmz787> ... back-thinned FEI Falcon detector at a calibrated magnification of 79,096 (yielding a pixel size of 1.77 Å)." 21:49 * nmz787 is pretty sure all that equipment is relatively accessible within 5 to 25 minutes from me 21:52 < nmz787> .tell nrw_ definitely use BRLCAD, stop looking into other open CAD tools, aside from the EDA stuff... but honestly I've been thinking I might end up doing EDA in BRL-CAD anyway, since I want to do MEMS designs (which have 3D geometry, electric wiring, spaces that fluids will flow through that I want to do physical simulations on). 21:52 < yoleaux> nmz787: I'll pass your message to nrw_. 22:06 -!- drewbot [~cinch@ec2-54-144-212-208.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:06 -!- drewbot [~cinch@ec2-54-161-73-67.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:22 < delinquentme> when a metric is picked as just some way to show off 22:22 < delinquentme> its a glamor metric? 22:22 < delinquentme> its a X metric. 22:48 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] --- Log closed Sat Mar 14 00:00:21 2015