--- Log opened Mon Mar 16 00:00:23 2015
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05:19 < archels> yorick: next week Saturday is an open day of all (most) Dutch hackerspaces, want to go check out Hack42 or so?
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05:22 < yorick> archels: ask some of the people from the moenenspace channel, as well ;)
05:23 < archels> nod
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10:05 < nickjohnson> I just launched the Kickstarter for Tsunami, my Arduino-based signal generator! :) http://kck.st/1GdYIVu
10:08 < kanzure> eww a link shortener
10:09 < nickjohnson> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/nickjohnson/tsunami if you'd prefer
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10:15 < chris_99> how much does CE testing cost for something like that out of interest
10:26 < nickjohnson> chris_99: About $500-$1000 in China
10:26 < nickjohnson> Or about 3 times that in the UK or US
10:26 < nickjohnson> Assuming you get everything right first time.
10:26 < chris_99> oh i didn't know you can get CE certified from china
10:26 < kanzure> fcc does outsourced CE testing?
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10:27 < nickjohnson> CE testing doesn't require a certified lab, it's 'self certified'
10:27 < nickjohnson> Which means you can do it yourself, if you have 50 grand worth of test equipment
10:27 < nickjohnson> Or you can pay someone else to :P
10:27 < chris_99> haha
10:27 < kanzure> is it bonded?
10:27 < chris_99> who do you use for that, if you don't mind me asking
10:28 < nickjohnson> eurofins.com
10:29 < chris_99> merci
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10:38 < chris_99> i guess you can do single cycles, with that DDS?
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10:45 < nickjohnson> chris_99: Yup, if you modulate it right
10:45 < nickjohnson> For that reason, the MCU runs off the same clock as the DDS, so CPU cycles translate directly to DDS cycles
10:46 < chris_99> cool
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11:07 < chris_99> paperbot: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1097/01.ALC.0000078828.49740.48/pdf
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11:07 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/4a13102992ae98fcdb33c724da585c26.txt
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11:59 < delinquentme> kanzure, so I think theres quite a few people who aren't sure of how to instance up async jobs in clery
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12:02 < kanzure> delinquentme: be more speciifc please
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12:03 < delinquentme> it was just suggested that I send off a request/response for instancing the celery job ... then a series of other request/responses  to poll for completion of the job
12:04 < delinquentme> the polling portion of that seems dumb.
12:05 < delinquentme> OH wait. Should I have celery post back to the flask app????
12:05 < kanzure> you could definitely have the celery task do things at the end of its function
12:06 < kanzure> polling for the completion of the job may be unnecessary. the job itself can update the state of an object. your api would then return the state of the object from the database.
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12:11 < delinquentme> Object.ready()
12:11 < delinquentme> can be polled to tell if the processing job is complete
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12:36 < kanzure> “All procedures and characterization data in OrgSyn are peer-reviewed and checked for reproducibility in the laboratory of a member of the Board of Editors” http://www.orgsyn.org/
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12:39 < kanzure> "Since 1975 some significant changes have been made in the operation of Organic Syntheses. Junior checkers (students associated with members of the Board of Editors) now receive an honorarium for their efforts. This change recognizes the more complex and sophisticated procedures that now appear in these volumes. Also, because of the greatly increased cost of chemicals involved in the checking process, checking editors are now reimbursed ...
12:39 < kanzure> ... for their costs; it is no longer reasonable to expect their own departments to absorb these expenses."
12:40 < kanzure> former editors http://orgsyn.org/BOE.aspx?show=F
12:40 < kanzure> look at all those old people
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12:56 < delinquentme> but look at those animations kanzure !
12:56 < delinquentme> so slick
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14:27 < Daeken> hey all
14:28 < Daeken> just heard about the nanoengineer project from kanzure.  very interested in helping out where i can
14:33 < kanzure> nanoengineer is a separate project actually
14:33 < kanzure> https://github.com/kanzure/nanoengineer
14:34 < kanzure> i was encouraged by nmz787 to mention nanoengineer during that presentation, so i did
14:34 < Daeken> ahh, okay -- that makes sense, given the content of the repo.  just figured it was under that umbrella, from the talk
14:34 < kanzure> nope, just random constructive advertising
14:34 < Daeken> gotcha
14:35 < kanzure> status:
14:35 < kanzure> need t obuy a freezer for the chemicals
14:35 < kanzure> need to order the chemicals
14:35 < kanzure> need to fix one of the phosphoramidite tubes in the synthesizer
14:52 < kanzure> oh and purchase argon
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14:57 < delinquentme> 127.0.0.1 - - [16/Mar/2015:16:41:33 +0000] "POST /runmodel HTTP/1.0" 500 291 "http://54.69.103.224/" "Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/41.0.2272.76 Safari/537.36"
14:57 < delinquentme> what does the 291 after my 500 denote?
14:57 < chris_99> maybe number of bytes
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15:47 < heath> "Microsoft engineers tired of blue screen of death jokes, decide to build yellow mecha of death" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWE9XQ4fK_c
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16:41 < kanzure> hmm
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17:32 < jrayhawk> number of bytes returned in the body, specifically
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17:51 < kanzure> what
17:53 < kanzure> .title http://techcrunch.com/2015/03/16/shift-labs-medical-devices-dripassist/
17:53 < yoleaux> Shift Labs Launches Out Of Y Combinator To Make Medical Devices For Healthcare’s Future | TechCrunch
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18:17 < kanzure> oh, that was topical
18:17 < kanzure> and also topical in another channel
18:17 < kanzure> i see now
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20:38 < fenn> is it just me or is this a non sequitur: "Medical device manufacturers have historically built their products by focusing on function way before form. If usability and design are even considered, it’s an afterthought at best."
20:39 < kanzure> maybe these people just aren't as self-aware as i thought they might be
20:39 < kanzure> surely he did not pitch that to ycombinator? "form, dudes"
20:39 < kanzure> and then peter thiel is all like "fuck YES, here's $1M welcome to ycombinator"
20:45 < fenn> that was written by a techchrunch "journalist"
20:45 < fenn> a.k.a. VC-istan office of propaganda
20:46 < fenn> i just get pissy when people think "design" is a bunch of swooshy plastic that does absolutely nothing
20:49 < kanzure> "no way man, it makes the experience better"
21:08 < kanzure> https://twitter.com/FakeEliezer
21:17 < fenn> "megarationality has compelled me to launch Tumblopedia, a stunning combination of outrage and crippling bureaucracy"
21:31 < kanzure> http://stoporganharvesting.org/
21:31 < kanzure> hmm
21:34 < fenn> gentlemen, put your scalpels down. it's time to compare the size of your piles and see how well you have done this round.
21:39 < fenn> "Due to traditional belief, most Chinese prefer to keep the body intact after death, so voluntary organ donation in China is rare, and there is no effective Network for Organ Sharing."
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21:39 < kanzure> my attempt at defending myself https://twitter.com/kanzure/status/577684481655455744
21:40 < fenn> if the lack of organs is due to traditional chinese belief systems, it's only fair that practitioners of those belief systems are used for their organs
21:40 < fenn> why are you using twitter, sheesh
21:40 < kanzure> i wonder if we could modify their belief system to be compatible with being burried with prosthetic organs
21:41 < kanzure> well i posted that link for transcripts for crescendo and then some people replied i guess
21:41 < Daeken> kanzure: hey, it worked for the ancient egyptians
21:41 < Daeken> (the first prosthetics are thought to be purely aesthetic units built by the egyptians to make bodies "whole" for burial)
21:42 < kanzure> surely the chinese can't argue that an artificial liver is somehow spiritually degrading or something
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21:43 < kanzure> especially after you are dead anyway
21:43 < fenn> anyone can say spiritually anything dignity human dignity rights ethics etc etc
21:44 < fenn> presumably the people whose organs are harvested were executed for doing falun gong, and would have been executed anyway
21:44 < kanzure> fenn: daeken is interested in dumping the synthesizer's rom
21:45 < Daeken> so, i was reading about photolithography, and thinking: why not use an LCD for the mask?  sure enough, people are already doing it.
21:45 < fenn> great, let's hope it's still there
21:45 < Daeken> put a UV light behind an LCD, display your mask, expose your block of <insert material here> covered in photoresist, let it bake for a moment, wash in acid
21:45 < fenn> LCD have much higher resolution than DMD
21:45 < Daeken> and then ... microfluidic channels?
21:46 < fenn> i wonder how the color filter interacts tho
21:46 < fenn> the bayer filter
21:46 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/optics/photolithography/
21:46 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/microfluidics/synthesis/Synthesis%20-%20Microfluidic%20PicoArray%20synthesis%20of%20oligodeoxynucleotides%20and%20simultaneous%20assembling%20of%20multiple%20DNA%20sequences%20(10%20kb).pdf
21:46 < Daeken> fenn: well, i know that LCDs will ordinarily block UV selectively, just like visible light -- welding helmets use them now
21:46 < Daeken> (block just the brightest spots)
21:46 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/DNA/
21:46 < Daeken> so in theory, it *should* work.
21:46 < fenn> also UV degrades the liquid crystal(?) and it yellows over time
21:47 < Daeken> yeah, it wouldn't be long term, but if you can use a cheapo LCD to make the microfluidic array, i'm okay with throwing the screen away every couple times.
21:47 < fenn> welding helmets use glass which blocks UV; the liquid crystal just makes it darker so you can see after you stop welding
21:47 < Daeken> fenn: ahh, really?  hmm.
21:48 < fenn> i wouldn't be surprised if it also blocked UV, but it has to remain 1% transparent so you can see while welding though
21:49 < Daeken> i wonder if UV will permeate the 'off' pixels on an LCD, then.
21:49 < Daeken> easy enough to test
21:49 < fenn> earlier we were discussing this DIY LCD video projector http://forum.allinbox.com/aspectgeek/Projetsencours/18/photon3k-projector-2880x1800-sujet_9774_1.htm
21:49 < Daeken> fenn: for the photolithography, or otherwise?
21:49 < fenn> eh, stuff
21:50 < fenn> the optics are the same for the most part
21:51 < fenn> it might be easier to just get an old lcd projector and replace the panel with something newer
21:51 < Daeken> what kind of resolution is required?
21:51 < fenn> depends what you want to do!
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21:52 < fenn> pixels are pixels
21:52 < fenn> they could be mm or nm
21:52 < fenn> .wa wavelength of UV-B
21:52 < yoleaux> fenn: Sorry, no result!
21:52 < fenn> .wik UVB wavelength
21:52 < yoleaux> "Ultraviolet (UV) light is electromagnetic radiation with a wavelength from 400 nm to 10 nm, shorter than that of visible light but longer than X-rays." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultraviolet
21:53 < fenn> ok well whatever, you get the idea
21:53 < fenn> 10 nm light will probably destroy your LCD faster
21:53 < fenn> also transparent materials tend to absorb and scatter more light at lower wavelengths
21:54 < fenn> so mirror optics is better for UV
21:54 < fenn> i guess this is why people were interested in DMD for photolithography
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21:56 < fenn> for LCD to work the following must remain transparent at your desired wavelength: polarizer, liquid crystal, lenses, pixel electrode, glass
21:56 < fenn> glass plate to keep the liquid crystal in plane
21:57 < fenn> DMD doesn't have any of that if you use a mirror objective
22:03 < fenn> heh DCC SEND from somefag [0.0.0.0 port 0]: STARTKEYLOGGER [0B bytes] requested in channel #bitcoin-wizards
22:06 < Daeken> yeah, seems like DMD is easier in a way.  just more intensive to put it all together
22:07 < Daeken> wonder if you could just pick up a cheapo projector off amazon and hack it together.
22:09 < fenn> if you were dead set on using hard UV you could etch a mirror with a fixed mask pattern by masking it with a lower wavelength device
22:10 < fenn> then you have a high resolution mask without all the crazy wavelength dependent requirements for the light modulation system
22:11 < fenn> you could get super duper high resolution masks that way by stepping the lower wavelength device
22:11 < fenn> er, i'm saying it wrong.. "lower wavelength" should be "higher wavelength"
22:12 < fenn> LCD works better with longer wavelengths is all
22:17 < Daeken> i wonder how high a resolution you really need, for microfluidics of this kind.  from the paper i read earlier, each reaction chamber was 90um wide and 15um deep.  the microchannel width wasn't specified, but 150um deep; let's say they're 20um wide, to go to the lower end.  if you assume 1080p projected onto a 2cm x 1.125cm area, that gives 1um per pixel
22:17 < Daeken> that means the channels are 20 pixels wide.
22:17 < fenn> 1080p DMD projectors are a LOT more expensive than 1024x768 DMD projectors or 1080p LCD panels
22:18 < Daeken> i'm seeing one on newegg for $639
22:18 < Daeken> that seems pretty decent to me
22:18 < fenn> also i'm talking about resolution in terms of number of pixels, not width of a single pixel
22:19 < fenn> huh really? maybe i'm thinking 4K projectors
22:19 < Daeken> 4k projectors are insaaanely expensive.  well out of reach right now (>$15k)
22:19 < Daeken> but i'd be willing to grab a cheapo 1080p projector to rip apart
22:20 < fenn> 1024x768 is like $80 on ebay
22:20 < fenn> DMD
22:20 < fenn> or DLP as they say
22:20 < fenn> duuude it's like, totally digital dude
22:21 < Daeken> haha
22:22 < fenn> can i just expose 35mm camera film to make "microfilm"?
22:29 < fenn> za3k made a good point that QR codes are more likely to be readable in the future
22:29 < fenn> rather than some weird thing like optar or paperback
22:32 < fenn> jeez these microfilm "microfiche" readers are $500
22:32 < fenn> it's only 24x magnification
22:34 < fenn> should have been called "minifilm" hrmph
22:46 < fenn> 24x doesn't seem like enough of a space reduction to bother
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23:29 < Daeken> the more i look at this stuff, the more i think the DMD approach (using a hacked up OTS projector) is ... pretty straightforward.  i might have to grab one soon and try this out.
23:31 < Daeken> should be able to do the HF etching in a friend's lab.  might be able to get access to an SEM to take a look at how true it is, once it gets to that point.
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--- Log closed Tue Mar 17 00:00:24 2015