--- Log opened Sat Mar 21 00:00:28 2015 00:01 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:13 -!- JayDugger [~jwdugger@pool-173-74-74-250.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:20 -!- Shannon [~Shannon@unaffiliated/shannon] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:00 -!- zadock [~zadock@81.180.210.87] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:11 -!- drewbot [~cinch@ec2-54-163-194-177.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:12 -!- drewbot [~cinch@ec2-54-166-239-86.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:12 -!- DumpsterD1ver [~loki@pool-151-200-31-189.washdc.btas.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:31 -!- Shannon_ [~Shannon@unaffiliated/shannon] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:31 < nmz787> this is surprisingly helpful even though it's for canals: http://ocw.usu.edu/Biological_and_Irrigation_Engineering/Irrigation___Conveyance_Control_Systems/6300__L16_ChannelCrossSections.pdf 02:35 -!- Shannon [~Shannon@unaffiliated/shannon] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:39 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:57 -!- Shannon_ [~Shannon@unaffiliated/shannon] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:00 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:02 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:05 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:09 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:12 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess Flood] 03:14 -!- Qfwfq [~WashIrvin@unaffiliated/washirving] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:20 -!- Qfwfq [~WashIrvin@unaffiliated/washirving] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:41 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:48 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess Flood] 03:51 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:03 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:04 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:42 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:52 -!- Shannon [~Shannon@unaffiliated/shannon] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:05 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:05 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess Flood] 05:10 -!- Vutral [~ss@p5B2A49B1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:10 -!- Vutral [~ss@p5B2A49B1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Changing host] 05:10 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:10 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess Flood] 05:16 -!- zadock [~zadock@muscalu.tuiasi.ro] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:17 -!- zadock [~zadock@muscalu.tuiasi.ro] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:43 -!- AmbulatoryCortex [~Ambulator@173-31-9-188.client.mchsi.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:50 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:51 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess Flood] 06:24 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:25 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess Flood] 06:28 < kanzure> beeeeep 06:32 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:40 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess Flood] 06:41 -!- Shannon [~Shannon@unaffiliated/shannon] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:51 < kanzure> "People stop using Antivirus software because they believe it's making their computers autistic. You are an IT intern at the wake of disaster." 07:01 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:03 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess Flood] 07:06 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:07 -!- Zinglon [~Zinglon@ip565f6f48.direct-adsl.nl] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:07 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess Flood] 07:12 -!- Vutral [~ss@p5B2A49B1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:12 -!- Vutral [~ss@p5B2A49B1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Changing host] 07:12 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:21 -!- Zinglon [~Zinglon@ip565f6f48.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:24 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess Flood] 07:36 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:37 -!- Zinglon [~Zinglon@ip565f6f48.direct-adsl.nl] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:41 -!- Zinglon [~Zinglon@ip565f6f48.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:08 -!- delinquentme [~delinquen@74.61.157.78] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:08 < delinquentme> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gphiFVVtUI #classy 08:09 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 08:09 < kanzure> .title 08:09 < yoleaux> Estas Tonne - The Song of the Golden Dragon - Stadtspektakel Landshut 2011 - YouTube 08:09 < delinquentme> kanzure, it jumps between metal as fuck and dainty 08:10 < delinquentme> kanzure, I want to get shitloads of people on mechanical turk working on aging 08:22 < kanzure> selective breeding for cryoresuscitation. aging can be fixed later. just store (revivable) bodies for now. 08:23 < delinquentme> is this in response to the alcor freezing that kid ? 08:23 < kanzure> i haven't heard 08:24 < kanzure> my selective breeding idea came about because i was ranting on irc 08:24 < kanzure> a few months ag 08:24 < kanzure> *ago 08:24 < kanzure> also out of sngs about dragons i guess i'll go with https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgJ1heSrskY 08:24 < kanzure> *songs 08:25 < delinquentme> not through fire + flames?? 08:25 < kanzure> that was only performed by a dragon 08:27 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:28 < delinquentme> kanzure, opine: is there a GOOD reason to ever use parenthesis in the KEY of a kv store? 08:29 < kanzure> the key is only "(" ?? 08:30 < delinquentme> nah its interval_results_df['is_peak_pricing_event(post)'] 08:30 < delinquentme> seems like a weird usage no? 08:31 < kanzure> well, i can't think of anything bad about using parens there. key sharding should still work. 08:32 < delinquentme> what is 'key sharding' ? 08:33 < delinquentme> doesnt seem like it a bad practice in the instance where you'd be looping through a dict and evaluating the key ? 08:33 < kanzure> also, whatever schema you pick, stick with it. lots of redis users stick with "." for separating fields or something. 08:33 < kanzure> if you are always retrieving the same data and you are splitting up multiple data across keys then you should just stick the data in a single value instead of separate values 08:33 < kanzure> key sharding is shit like http://redis.io/topics/partitioning 08:34 < delinquentme> Ohhh ok redis. yeah this is simply a regular python dict ... now I get the sharding bit 08:34 < kanzure> "Partitioning is the process of splitting your data into multiple Redis instances, so that every instance will only contain a subset of your keys. The first part of this document will introduce you to the concept of partitioning, the second part will show you the alternatives for Redis partitioning." 08:37 < delinquentme> {"(common)sense": None} 08:37 < delinquentme> BAHAHAHAHA 08:37 -!- AmbulatoryCortex [~Ambulator@173-31-9-188.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:40 < delinquentme> kanzure, DBZ iz worth watching ?? 08:41 < kanzure> if you were anyone else, i would say no, but for you it is like hype chow 08:41 < kanzure> so go for it 08:42 < delinquentme> HAHAHA 08:42 < delinquentme> poor roomates. lolzing my ass off at not even 9 am 08:43 < delinquentme> ' hype chow ' 08:44 -!- AmbulatoryCortex [~Ambulator@173-31-9-188.client.mchsi.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:46 < kanzure> not sure whether i should tell you to watch the v2 series 08:47 < kanzure> (v2 is "remastered") 08:56 < kanzure> delinquentme: hypety hype https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlHQ3aCLB-M 08:56 < delinquentme> i just watched gokus transition to ss2 08:56 < kanzure> honestly i thought you had seen dbz because the only other explanation is that you operate entirely on sugar rushes 08:57 < delinquentme> hahahahah 08:57 < delinquentme> HA. 08:57 -!- Quashie_ [~boingredd@64.231.150.116] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:58 < delinquentme> Ive seen the first season maybe? and like a movie or two ? 08:58 < delinquentme> but IDK this 5 minutes of screaming with minimal happenings 08:58 < delinquentme> its like the opposite of what I like about eva 08:58 < delinquentme> which is like grotesque transformations in a very timely fashion 08:58 < kanzure> evangelion is like 20 hours of a boy complaining about how awful life is because he has a giant robot 08:58 < kanzure> what a dipshit 08:58 < delinquentme> this is like ... screaming and hairgrowth 08:58 < delinquentme> HAHAHA 08:59 < delinquentme> you saw the post I made for FB a while back about shinji hitting rock bottom right? 08:59 < kanzure> nope 08:59 < delinquentme> moaping around the ship not allowed to pilot and eva and wearing crocs 08:59 < delinquentme> bahahaahhaa 08:59 < kanzure> https://encyclopediadramatica.se/Neon_Genesis_Evangelion 09:00 -!- Zinglon [~Zinglon@ip565f6f48.direct-adsl.nl] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:00 -!- Quashie [~boingredd@64.231.150.116] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:04 < delinquentme> HAHA ok so this makes me really happy 09:04 < delinquentme> "Also the word "plot" doesn't mean anything in Japanese" 09:04 < kanzure> there's also an excellent "abridged" version on youtube, although teamfourstar's videos may only make sense after seeing dbz actual 09:07 < kanzure> like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uo5Rhn8zuPA 09:08 < delinquentme> christian imagery is probs why its resonant w me 09:08 < delinquentme> but yeah its overly emo 09:08 < delinquentme> except when its raging. 09:08 < delinquentme> then #goreGasm 09:15 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:31 < kanzure> for gore there's stuff like metalocalypse 09:33 < archels> cyberpunk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuHa_WffHWo 09:33 < archels> (music) 09:39 -!- zadock [~zadock@81.180.210.87] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:55 < kanzure> strange channel 09:55 < kanzure> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cq3RWdHteSw 09:56 < kanzure> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nU0uTq6IhPM 10:02 -!- Quashie [~boingredd@TOROON0240W-LP130-02-2925092190.dsl.bell.ca] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:02 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:03 -!- Quashie_ [~boingredd@64.231.150.116] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:08 -!- Shannon [~Shannon@unaffiliated/shannon] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:32 -!- Zinglon [~Zinglon@ip565f6f48.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:38 < heath> fenn, delinquentme: yo 10:38 < delinquentme> heath, ohio 10:38 < heath> the next few hours are the best times to hang out 10:39 < delinquentme> where be 10:39 < heath> my friend kumar is coming to pick me up 10:39 < heath> i'm in palo alto right now 10:39 < heath> friend is in east bay 10:39 < delinquentme> hMMMM 10:39 < heath> not really sure what the plans are 10:39 < delinquentme> Im in east bay . downtown oak 10:39 < delinquentme> we can get boba if you want @ quickly 10:39 < heath> hm, might try to make it up there then 10:40 < delinquentme> yeah idk if shit is happening in palo alto 10:40 < heath> delinquentme: he'll be picking me up at around 1:30 from this airbnb spot 10:41 < heath> though i might just grab an uber ride to east bay 10:41 < heath> PM time since this is off topic 10:43 < pasky_> http://timothy.hobbs.cz/wearable-computing/adventures.html 10:44 -!- Zinglon [~Zinglon@ip565f6f48.direct-adsl.nl] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:46 < kanzure> heath: also find fenn 10:47 < delinquentme> fenn, doesnt come out and play 10:47 < delinquentme> or at least i dont think so 10:47 < delinquentme> it could just be my obnoxious loudness though 10:50 * heath messages fenn 10:55 < delinquentme> jecht shot https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2N4FKBXXSA 10:55 < kanzure> .title 10:55 < yoleaux> Jecht Shot - YouTube 11:18 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:24 -!- Shannon_ [~Shannon@unaffiliated/shannon] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:25 -!- genehacker [~chatzilla@c-98-232-239-159.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:27 -!- Shannon [~Shannon@unaffiliated/shannon] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:32 -!- Shannon_ [~Shannon@unaffiliated/shannon] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:43 -!- genehacker [~chatzilla@c-98-232-239-159.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:55 -!- genehacker [~chatzilla@c-98-232-239-159.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:56 -!- Quashie_ [~boingredd@TOROON0240W-LP140-03-845478924.dsl.bell.ca] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:57 -!- Quashie [~boingredd@TOROON0240W-LP130-02-2925092190.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:06 -!- TK_ [~TK@82.131.18.123.cable.starman.ee] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:15 -!- altersid [~sid@altersid.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:17 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:17 -!- genehacker [~chatzilla@c-98-232-239-159.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:22 < andytoshi> paperbot: http://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/11941378_26 12:23 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/3f5b1b33d808324d1a2086a1d509a776.txt 12:27 < kanzure> .title http://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/11941378_26 12:27 < yoleaux> Constant-Size ID-Based Linkable and Revocable-iff-Linked Ring Signature - Springer 12:27 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:35 -!- Zinglon [~Zinglon@ip565f6f48.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:38 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:48 < andytoshi> i got that paper using my academic access .. it was not so interesting 12:48 < andytoshi> there is a trusted party who can extract everyone's private keys (and who is in charge of making private keys, so he can't even throw his secret data away) 12:50 -!- delinquentme [~delinquen@74.61.157.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:51 < andytoshi> but (i think, i only skimmed it) even the keymaker cannot determine who made a signature, it is actually anonymous if you don't try to sign two messages 12:53 -!- Zinglon [~Zinglon@ip565f6f48.direct-adsl.nl] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:01 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bybfnicrvgzkcewl] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:11 -!- wastedtime [~robert@cpc10-grim14-2-0-cust275.12-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:12 -!- wastedtime [~robert@cpc10-grim14-2-0-cust275.12-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:15 < kanzure> if lotteries/finance are how you detect time travelers, how would you detect ai? 13:33 -!- yashgaroth [~ffffff@99-95-173-80.lightspeed.sndgca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: yashgaroth] 13:43 < archels> dear ParaView, you am being buggy. yours truly, etc. 13:43 < kanzure> try paraview2 13:45 < archels> they're up to 4.3.1 13:46 < archels> can't find anything on "paraview2" as a separate (forked?) entity 13:47 < kanzure> whoops i am thinking of mayavi2 sorry 13:51 -!- zadock [~zadock@81.180.210.87] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:53 -!- delinquentme [~delinquen@74.61.157.78] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:55 < kanzure> archels: suppose you had a magical neural tissue printer and life support device. your neurons don't die, and you can get reasonable data out of the device. there are both electrical inputs and outputs. also, you might be able to structure the network yourself, with different cell types. and there's blood and stuff. 13:55 < kanzure> archels: what sort of ideal operation would you expect out of that sort of device (in terms of trainability) for what amount of neural matter, either short-term (next 5 years) or long-term (say 20 years of playing around with that piece of magic hardware) 13:56 < kanzure> for example, do you think a culture of 10k or 100k neurons could be coerced into doing optical character recognition? 13:57 < kanzure> and more specifically, do we have any evidence yet of neural tissue cultures (in vitro) doing optical character recognition (i know the answer is no, but substitute for an appropriately mundane task please)? 14:00 < kanzure> on a related note, i believe i now have an actionable plan for either brain emulation or brain uploading or ai that does not involve "read all science papers ever, type up the data into an appropriate neural matter simulator". 14:02 < archels> I'm all ears 14:02 < archels> meh, there's excised retinae which do some expected things like edge detection 14:03 < archels> people like Kevin Warwick are doing things like you described and making mobile robots avoid walls 14:03 < kanzure> i know there's rat neural tissue culture thta has done silly balancing problems (like fighter pilot simulators) 14:03 < kanzure> bbut i was hoping something more impressive has been achieved since that 14:03 < archels> yeah, there's that as well 14:03 < archels> not really, as we have no idea what we're doing 14:03 < kanzure> maybe also no incentive for anyone to make rat neurons do OCR 14:04 < archels> we're taking components out of a circuit of which we don't understand the function, putting them in a condition that is probably very unlike what they were built for, and most of the time not even wiring them up in any meaningful pattern 14:04 < archels> there's some stuff going on with patterning of neurites, but I'm not sure yet I'm excited about that 14:05 < kanzure> i have seen some evidence of synapse creation in petri dishes 14:06 < archels> oh, you get synapse creation almost for free 14:06 < archels> but the usefulness is a second thing 14:07 < archels> I'm just not sure what we're trying to achieve with this line of research 14:09 < kanzure> well, this is not how i happened to arrive at this idea, but consider the case of molecular nanotechnology and human brains 14:09 < kanzure> the typical story there is that people want to replace chunks of their brain matter with electronic components 14:09 < kanzure> usually neuron-by-neuron or something else insane because they are worried about "identity" (blah) 14:09 < kanzure> theoretically that idea is to replace the single neuron with something equivalent in operation except not biological in origin 14:09 < archels> right 14:10 < kanzure> a similar trick can be done with neural tissue cultures, especially if the neural tissue cultures are separated from each other with electrode interfaces 14:10 < kanzure> and then you can replace certain cultures with software that acts similarly, rather than software that acts similarly to an entire brain 14:11 < kanzure> so you would be slowly converting from a "data center" of neural tissue cultures to a software implementation for most of the cultures. that is, if they are producing useful results. 14:11 < archels> hmm, sure, if you had a large-enough battery of tests to convince the skeptics that the in vitro and in silico neural nets were functionally equivalent 14:11 < kanzure> the advantage of such modularization is that it makes refactoring/reimplementation easier. i'm sure 100 neurons are orders of magnitude easier to model in software (either with virtual neurons, or not), than 100 billion neurons. 14:12 < archels> assuming we're doing a simulation that goes down to that level of detail in the first place, sure 14:12 < kanzure> you may not need functional-equivalence, although yes you would want at least some important tests to pass for the whole system perhaps (OCR maybe..) (of course, OCR itself is solvable without this massive operation) 14:13 < archels> how can you tell one is as good as the other without those test though? 14:13 < kanzure> yes i agree that testing is important 14:13 < kanzure> you could also test software version against live version 14:14 < nmz787> watched some youtube documentary (maybe from discovery channel) on ivanoff's monkey-human hybridization experiments... it said a monkey head transplant was successful 14:14 < kanzure> also, i haven't worked with neural tissue cultures before, but i'll assume they crash and die often. in which case, you should use training data against a replacement tissue culture prior to the original dying, so that when the original dies you could switch it out with a somewhat functionally equivalent culture. 14:14 < nmz787> can't find any info on it on scholar 14:15 < archels> paperbot: http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/articleDetails.jsp?reload=true&arnumber=6309184 14:15 < paperbot> http://libgen.info/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1109%2FMAP.2012.6309184 14:15 < kanzure> .title http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/articleDetails.jsp?reload=true&arnumber=6309184 14:15 < yoleaux> IEEE Xplore Abstract - Using the FEniCS Package for FEM Solutions in Electromagnetics 14:15 < nmz787> anyone have any ideas on high-pin-count FPGAs or CPLDs or Microcontrollers for doing a neural culture grid/array thing? 14:15 < archels> kanzure: yah, bit confused about that, although afaik if you put the effort in you can keep a culture alive virtually indefinitely 14:15 < kanzure> that sounds unlikely 14:15 < kanzure> biology is never that pleasant to work with 14:16 < kanzure> also: you could do directed evolution techniques to select neurons that are more likely to survive in your shitty-engineered tissue culture device. 14:16 < nmz787> wouldn't you also need something like phagocytes to clean up old neurons ('garbage collector') 14:16 < archels> hehe, yes 14:17 < archels> nmz787: hopefully they don't die... but you'd probably need glial cells 14:17 < kanzure> dead neural tissue can just be removed by physically removing the device from the data center 14:18 < kanzure> (and prolly reusing it... i'm cheap.) 14:18 < nmz787> archels: http://diyhpl.us/~nmz787/pdf/Using_the_FEniCS_Package_for_FEM_Solutions_in_Electromagnetics.pdf 14:18 < nmz787> archels: have you seen the video on palabos (presented at NASA)? 14:18 < kanzure> archels: one argument you could bring against this plan is that i wouldn't know how to initially connect the different cultures 14:19 < archels> cheers, I was almost out of memory but bit the bullet and closed my VM to fire up Firefox with a SOCKS proxy in the end ;) 14:19 < archels> nmz787: nope, not familiar with that term 14:19 < nmz787> for doing simulatios 14:20 < archels> Lattice Boltzmann Method? 14:21 < nmz787> yea 14:22 < nmz787> open but they sell support... idk if they limit cool stuff to the paid-services only or not 14:22 < nmz787> http://fenicsproject.org/documentation/dolfin/1.0.1/python/demo/pde/navier-stokes/python/documentation.html 14:22 < nmz787> http://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/CAD_to_FEniCS_example 14:22 < nmz787> https://cfdandheattransfer.wordpress.com/category/cfd-softwares/ 14:23 < nmz787> some links i've been saving 14:23 < archels> yah we're using FEniCS to study local field potentials right now 14:23 < archels> was just looking into how to do open boundary conditions properly 14:23 < kanzure> another plausible objection is that while i might be able to come up with the initial connectivity for something like rat-brain-OCR there's no way that is anywhere similar to human cognitive ability 14:25 < archels> kanzure: hmm, actually, perhaps you could go for a comparison on the spike timing level 14:26 < archels> i.e. have the software model predict the occurrence of every spike within some finite, but low, tolerance 14:26 < kanzure> i'm sure there are many ways to model small neuron populations, including non-neural models 14:31 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:31 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:31 < kanzure> initial connectivity could be determined by looking at other mammal brains i guess 14:32 < kanzure> and just using something with roughly similar proportions (but random?) and hope that existing mammal brains aren't entirely based on extremely rare connections to make everything work :-) 14:32 < kanzure> (rare as in, things you would miss when choosing initial connectivity) 14:34 < kanzure> one major downside with this plan is that it is extremely capital intensive 14:36 < archels> well, that assumes that we have the capability to pattern cultures just like actual brains 14:36 < archels> I thought your premiss was to just let the culture do whatever, and then replicate that whatever by a computer simulation 14:36 < archels> to make the requirements a bit less steep initially 14:37 * nmz787 even shiva did a head transplant, it's written in the holy books 14:56 < kanzure> archels: yes that's right, but you're not going to culture an entire brain in one dish or whatever. also, that would be too hard to replicate by computer simulation. 14:58 < kanzure> perhaps the connectivity problem isn't a huge deal, and there could be some protocol for letting the devices wire themselves up automagically 14:58 < kanzure> (e.g., 1024 sampling electrodes as the "output" from one device, and then let the device pick (somehow) another culture to send the data to as stimlation) 14:58 < kanzure> *stimulation 14:59 -!- zadock [~zadock@81.180.210.87] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:00 < archels> I'm sure we can figure out connectivity relatively easily using the right optics 15:00 < archels> (can we move on from electrodes to optics please) 15:00 < archels> =) 15:01 < archels> admittedly a two-photon microscope, if that's what it takes, can be rather expensive 15:01 < kanzure> why would that be easier with optics? 15:01 < kanzure> "At Packetzoom we're building up a networking protocol specifically designed for mobile networks. We've discarded the TCP/HTTP stack completely and started from scratch. The idea was to go back to the drawing board (to the lowest level possible) and ask this question: How would network protocols on mobile work if they were being designed from scratch today?. (We're out in production with private beta customers.)" 15:02 < kanzure> http://www.pneubotics.com/ "Pneubotics are constructed entirely out of compliant skins and inflated to create structure and movement. This unique fluid-filled design enables the production of compliant, human safe arms that rival existing technologies in lifting capacity at 1/10th the weight and price" 15:03 -!- zadock [~zadock@81.180.210.87] has quit [Client Quit] 15:04 < kanzure> haha, spreadsheet2text http://www.narrativescience.com/ 15:05 < archels> because you could stimulate each neuron in turn and visualise the EPSPs it produced in every other neuron 15:05 < kanzure> agriculture canopy height distribution stuff http://www.bluerivert.com/ 15:05 < archels> electrodes are so crude in comparison 15:06 < kanzure> alright 15:07 < kanzure> fair enough 15:09 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:12 < archels> yeah probably *really* bloody expensive 15:12 < kanzure> well the whole strategy is very expensive anyway :-) 15:12 < archels> I recall now one of our postdocs lamenting spending on the order of $10k on a single lens 15:12 < archels> aye 15:12 < kanzure> "yes first we are going to need a data center of neural tissue culture devices" 15:12 < kanzure> "um....." 15:12 < kanzure> "also we have to invent the neural tissue culture device first" 15:13 < kanzure> "uh... how about $2 billion?" 15:21 < archels> haha 15:21 < archels> heck, maybe you'll find the Chinese government willing 15:22 -!- zadock [~zadock@81.180.210.87] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:23 < kanzure> one of the easier uses of this system would be something like visual object recognition 15:23 < kanzure> except that computer vision research is already pretty well along 15:23 < kanzure> kinda unfortunate 15:24 < archels> you could always say something about power efficiency, or something 15:33 -!- augur [~augur@c-71-57-177-235.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:37 -!- TK_ [~TK@82.131.18.123.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:52 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:54 < delinquentme> kanzuragi do we have access to anyone whos got substantial experience w hamilton robotics? 15:58 -!- augur [~augur@c-71-57-177-235.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:59 < kanzure> the last person to mention hamilton robotics was 15:59 < kanzure> oh it was you 15:59 < kanzure> (2011-09-16) 16:02 < delinquentme> =/////////// 16:02 < delinquentme> kanz we need more ppl 16:02 < delinquentme> this maeks carl sad 16:03 < kanzure> we have some new people lately 16:03 < kanzure> just not people that know hamilton robotics 16:04 < delinquentme> >________________________________< 16:04 < delinquentme> http://www.indeed.com/salary/Hamilton-Robotics.html 16:04 < kanzure> heath: you should also find maaku 16:04 < kanzure> heath: maaku is in san jose 16:11 < delinquentme> nmz787, 16:11 < delinquentme> PAGING 16:11 < delinquentme> DU COME IN 16:15 < delinquentme> we lost nmz787 to RL 16:15 < nmz787> delinquentme: sup 16:15 * nmz787 just filed taxes 16:18 < kanzure> http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-03-21/hedge-funds-exploit-patent-laws-push-down-biotechs 16:19 < kanzure> (i haven't double checked this) "Takeda Pharmaceuticals bought URL Pharma in June 2013 for $800 million just to get URL's patented version of colchinine. The FDA gave URL a three year exclusive patent on colchinine in 2010, after URL did a one week drug trial costing it under $50,000. So colchinine, a drug in use for almost 2,000 years to treat gout, in Roman times before 100 A.D, was given carte blanche by the FDA to URL Pharma, ... 16:19 < kanzure> ... thanks to the FDA's strange interpretation of the Hatch/Waxman amendment. The price of colchinine pills to consumers went from 5 cents a pill for the generic versions available in 2009 to $5.00 a pill for Colcrys - a hundredfold increase" 16:20 < delinquentme> nmz787, hamilton robotics tip liquid interface sensing is done by back pressure analysis 16:21 * delinquentme doing reesearch 16:21 < delinquentme> though this *HAS* to change with the viscosity of the liquid .... 16:22 < nmz787> delinquentme: so like, with a given 'suction' pulse, how quickly does the pressure equalize? 16:23 < nmz787> like vacuum bleed-down time 16:23 < delinquentme> Im not sure if its positive or negative 16:24 < delinquentme> but they've got a mechanism for also filtering out bubbles @ the air/water interface 16:25 < nmz787> piezo vibration? 16:25 < delinquentme> "A source of compressed air slowly pushes air through a length of tubing past a very sensitive pressure transducer and through a sample collecting pipette tip. As the surface of the liquid sample is closely approached and contacted a slight back-pressure is developed in the pipette tip and the tubing, which minute variations are sensed by the pressure transducer " 16:25 < delinquentme> https://www.google.com/patents/EP0341438A2?cl=en&dq=hamilton+pipette+sensing&hl=en&sa=X&ei=fPwNVb-NK4mPyATX8oDYDQ&ved=0CCQQ6AEwAQ 16:25 < delinquentme> positive pressure 16:26 < nmz787> k, so it senses the surface tension snapping the fluid to the tip it seems 16:26 < delinquentme> ... still though high viscosity bubbles I could see being similarly responsive as lower viscosity liquids 16:26 < nmz787> same same but different 16:27 < delinquentme> nmz787, right, and that 'snapping' creates slight back pressure 16:27 < delinquentme> triggering the interface 16:27 < nmz787> so if you had wildly ranging viscosities, i wonder if the sensors have enough dynamic range 16:28 < nmz787> archels: so you're using fenics now? anything open, blogposts, etc? 16:30 < delinquentme> nmz787, im also trying to figure out if one of the inputs is to classify the substance being pipetted 16:32 < nmz787> i was just reading a paper yesterday on deformation analysis of cells, but they had to use insane FPS per second for the video stream of the cells as they went from a large channel to a much smaller microchannel 16:32 < nmz787> so I wonder if you could differentiate fluids, but would need incredibly high sample rate on the transducer 16:32 < nmz787> surely lots of fluids behave similarly on the average 16:33 < nmz787> so to differentiate seems you'd need more details, to watch more closely 16:33 < nmz787> or combine data streams 16:34 < nmz787> maybe add some voltammetry or impedance -ometry to the tip and sample/fluid chamber 16:34 < nmz787> spectroscopy, etc 16:34 < nmz787> heat/thermal capacity 16:34 < nmz787> (like a mass air flow sensor in a car maybe) 16:34 < nmz787> or a fizeau interferometer type setup for flow rate and spectral sampling 16:39 < delinquentme> nmz787, whos work on cell deformation ? 16:39 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:52 < nmz787> delinquentme http://www.nature.com/nmeth/journal/v12/n3/full/nmeth.3281.html 16:52 < nmz787> i get the print editions, heh, like 2 or 3 copies 16:52 < delinquentme> heh. yeah otto 16:53 < delinquentme> talked w a company whos using his tech in a novel machine 16:59 < nmz787> laterz 17:05 < kanzure> .title 17:05 < yoleaux> Real-time deformability cytometry: on-the-fly cell mechanical phenotyping : Nature Methods : Nature Publishing Group 17:06 < delinquentme> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hN79_hBf7Sg&t=5m 17:06 < delinquentme> brilliantly simple method for handling exit stashing of plates 17:06 < delinquentme> upwardly sloping brush tips 17:06 < kanzure> .title 17:06 < yoleaux> Hamilton ELISA STAR - YouTube 17:28 -!- Zinglon [~Zinglon@ip565f6f48.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:31 < kanzure> unexpected https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literate_programming#Example 17:33 < kanzure> .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivJZljEostE 17:33 < yoleaux> 夢の浮世に咲いてみな/ももいろクローバーZ vs KISS(YUMENO UKIYONI SAITEMINA/MOMOIRO CLOVER Z vs KISS) - YouTube 17:34 < kanzure> ^jweirdness 17:56 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:56 -!- cluckj [~cluckj@c-71-225-211-210.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:01 -!- narwh4l [~michael@unaffiliated/thesnark] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:05 -!- ParahSailin [~parahsail@unaffiliated/parahsailin] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:26 -!- delinquentme [~delinquen@74.61.157.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:42 -!- cluckj [~cluckj@c-71-225-211-210.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:58 < kanzure> narwh4l: welcome back 18:58 < narwh4l> :) hey kanzure 19:02 < kanzure> what's up? 19:04 < narwh4l> kanzure got something I'm excited about but don't want to talk about just yet 19:04 < narwh4l> has to do with being 1337 19:05 < narwh4l> kanzure the make magazine deal fell through so I'm no longer doing distributed computing over btc 19:05 < narwh4l> fucking radioshack 19:06 < kanzure> radioshack bought make? 19:06 < narwh4l> it's complicated...radioshack funded a lot of make 19:06 < narwh4l> but they are going out of business 19:06 < kanzure> i thought make magazine was funded entirely by tim o'reilly 19:06 < narwh4l> haha 19:06 < narwh4l> no definitely ont 19:07 < narwh4l> not 19:07 < kanzure> knowing this would have made me hate make magazine less 19:07 < kanzure> also, here are some thoughts about how to achieve human-level brain emulation software http://gnusha.org/logs/2015-03-21.log (around 13:55 and onward) 19:11 < narwh4l> IMO, neural networks are heavily overrated 19:11 < narwh4l> I know bio neurons != simulated 19:11 < narwh4l> but I still think that is the case 19:12 < kanzure> right now biological brains are the only things that are doing really interesting things 19:12 < narwh4l> define interesting 19:12 < kanzure> and we don't have any evidence that any other strategy works 19:12 < kanzure> human-level general cognitive ability = interesting 19:13 < narwh4l> What is that? Symbolic computation? 19:13 < kanzure> probably not 19:13 < kanzure> symbolic computation has been implemented in software before and it's boring 19:13 < kanzure> i mean, it doesn't do anything really human-like 19:14 < narwh4l> I'm struggling to find what humans do that is special 19:14 < kanzure> depends on what you mean by special 19:14 < narwh4l> language is not special, manipulating symbols is not special, learning new techniques is not special 19:14 < kanzure> if by special you mean ineffable, then nothing 19:14 < narwh4l> masturbating is definitely not special 19:15 < narwh4l> sorry haha 19:15 < narwh4l> I just think 'human level' intelligence is boring to me 19:16 < kanzure> so far nobody knows how to implement that in software 19:16 < kanzure> so the text in that log contains a plan for software implementation 19:20 < narwh4l> so you're saying watch the spikes and model it? 19:20 < kanzure> not quite 19:20 < kanzure> by using multiple separate tissue cultures, you can easily switch out tissue cultures with software implementations of equivalent functionality (and not necessarily a neural network btw) 19:21 < kanzure> to the devices providing stimulation, the signals coming over the network are the same whether the signal was from some neurons in another device or from some software 19:21 < kanzure> and then you begin replacing each of these tissue cultures with software instead, eventually you will have a completely software system 19:22 < kanzure> (and that software might look very strange- i don't see any reason that it would /require/ neural network software, it may end up being a pile of very mundane components) 19:37 -!- delinquentme [~delinquen@74.61.157.78] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:38 -!- AmbulatoryCortex [~Ambulator@173-31-9-188.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:42 < delinquentme> kanzure, do you do the guitar thing? 19:42 < delinquentme> like do you nard out over crazy arpeggios ? 19:46 -!- narwh4l [~michael@unaffiliated/thesnark] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:54 -!- rigel [~yourmom@c-24-21-52-83.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:57 < kanzure> delinquentme: i used to play, i suppose.. 20:03 < delinquentme> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GA05WkIyKpk 20:03 < delinquentme> somewhere past the 3min mark 20:03 < delinquentme> he goes arp NUTS 20:04 < delinquentme> also I just realized something kanzure 20:04 < delinquentme> if you can sleep 6 hours a night consistently 20:04 < delinquentme> you've got 126 working hours a week 20:04 < delinquentme> if all of those were billable ... I'd be making 700k 20:04 < delinquentme> per year 20:04 < delinquentme> 12k / week 20:05 < delinquentme> nearly 50 grand a week. 20:07 < delinquentme> make that 2:30s on the vid kanz 20:07 < cluckj> sweet, got my glucose monitor to display on my pebble 20:13 -!- delinquentme [~delinquen@74.61.157.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:14 < kanzure> on today's episode of irc, delinquentme learns basic math? 20:16 < kanzure> cluckj: this is using your bluetooth snoopery? 20:21 < cluckj> nah, someone else did all the work, I just compiled the repo 20:25 < kanzure> that's not optimal thesis-writing procrastination 20:27 < cluckj> hah 20:27 < cluckj> it's not procrastination when I've got scheduled writing time 4 days a week 20:29 < cluckj> the watch face for the pebble is a little bit wonky so I guess I could waste some time fixing it 20:29 < cluckj> it's in C, which I can understand! 20:48 < kanzure> "Many programmers like to listen to techno while coding and one of the ways to get them interested in aging research is to compose several tracks that may help for narcolepsy and mention aging at the same time. To get a few of these tunes I started a DJ competition on www.AgingKills.org and produced a first sample track together with a brilliant young DJ from Hungary called "Aging is a Terminal Disease": " 20:48 < kanzure> https://soundcloud.com/biogerontology/nayour-zhavoronkov-aging-is-a-terminal-disease-lab-mix 20:49 < kanzure> http://agingkills.org/ 20:51 < kanzure> "This track is a result of collaboration of Nayour and Dr. Zhavoronkov and will be presented by Insilico Medicine at the NVIDIA GTC Conference in San Jose. This track will also set an example for our upcoming "Rebel against aging!" DJ competition." 21:05 -!- balrog [~balrog@discferret/developer/balrog] has quit [Excess Flood] 21:06 -!- balrog [~balrog@discferret/developer/balrog] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:46 -!- delinquentme [~delinquen@74.61.157.78] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:53 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:27 -!- soylentbomb [~k@unaffiliated/soylentbomb] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:28 -!- soylentbomb [~k@unaffiliated/soylentbomb] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:33 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bybfnicrvgzkcewl] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 22:57 -!- JayDugger [~jwdugger@pool-173-74-74-250.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:27 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: soylentbomb 23:40 -!- Beatzebub [~beatzebub@d50-92-48-81.bchsia.telus.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:40 -!- Beatzebub [~beatzebub@d50-92-48-81.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:42 -!- soylentbomb [~k@d53-64-122-232.nap.wideopenwest.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:52 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:53 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:57 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] --- Log closed Sun Mar 22 00:00:29 2015