--- Log opened Fri Mar 27 00:00:34 2015
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03:02 < nickjohnson> Woohoo! KS has hit the goal. :)
03:08 < Viper168> kansas?
03:09 < nickjohnson> Kickstarter :)
03:09 < nickjohnson> (My one, specifically)
03:09 < Viper168> ah cool
03:09 < Viper168> I need to start an indiegogo for my store
03:10 < Viper168> but a lot of work to do to even prepare enough to get it launched, let alone the campaigning
03:24 < nickjohnson> What's your store?
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03:35 < Viper168> online sciency shop, from things for geeks to novel applications of science that will interest the public, and educational products like experiment kits for homeschoolers etc...
03:40 < Viper168> the combination of my love for science and desire to promote interest and education in it and my desire to make money in a less limited way so I can branch out and keep making more and more, so that I can use that money to further the education efforts and other things I want to push for
03:50 < nickjohnson> Neat. How will you crowdfund that? Tiers for different products?
03:54 < Viper168> yeah, and perhaps discount memberships where they get a certain % off orders
04:04 < Douhet> nickjohnson, link to ks?
04:08 < nickjohnson> Douhet: kickstarter.com/projects/nickjohnson/tsunami
04:08 < nickjohnson> Viper168: Nice idea
04:08 < nickjohnson> Viper168: Your Store Prime?
04:14 < Viper168> prime?
04:24 < Viper168> sorry nickjohnson don't think I understand what you mean
04:25 < nickjohnson> Like Amazon Prime
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04:25 < Viper168> oooh
04:25 < Viper168> yes
04:26 < Viper168> maybe a few different grades
04:30 < Viper168> sorry I'm getting rather tired so my language parsing and output functions are going a little haywire
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05:15 < Viper168> http://www.sciencealert.com/scientists-have-figured-out-how-to-inject-human-eyes-with-night-vision  thoughts?
05:34 < justanotheruser> having to turn on a light is a minor inconvenience
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05:36 < Viper168> yeah but then the bad guys you're taking down can see you too
05:38 < justanotheruser> if it's a matter of bad guys maybe its a good idea, but we have night vision
05:38 < justanotheruser> (goggles)
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06:52 < ParahSailin> wefunder is pretty happy now
07:04 < archels> cuties https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=16&v=hN6HfGUGQBc
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07:33 < kanzure> .title
07:33 < yoleaux> Big bionic ants team up to move objects - YouTube
07:34 < kanzure> how is running a store "neat" -_-
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08:14 < FourFire> kanzure, I suppose it depends on the store
08:14 < FourFire> but I can't imagine that line of work being very satisfactory
08:15 < FourFire> It's leading towards maximal automation: here at the university the grocery store has no manual checkouts, they're all automated
08:37 < justanotheruser> FourFire: you mean self-checkout right?
08:37 < kanzure> nope, you just can't checkout at all
08:38 < justanotheruser> because a self-checkout is manual
08:38 < kanzure> aww my human brain project account was disabled today
08:39 < FourFire> justanotheruser, yep
08:39 < FourFire> it's automation to the extent that fewer employees are needed
08:39 < justanotheruser> I prefer someone else check me out. I save a lot of time because I transfer money I earned through labor in a skill I'm specialized in so they can save me time doing a task they're experienced in
08:40 < FourFire> justanotheruser, I find it to be faster to do it myself actually
08:40 < justanotheruser> then you must be better at it than me :)
08:40 < FourFire> but then I rarely buy more than ten items at once
08:40 < kanzure> just use instacart/instalunch/uberfood/getmagicnow/postmates/taskrabbit... who goes to a grocery store anyway? man.
08:40 < FourFire> kanzure, Norway
08:41 < FourFire> nothing fucking gets delivered to this country
08:41 < justanotheruser> kanzure: when was the last time you left your home
08:41 < FourFire> not even Amazon delivers interesting things here
08:41 < justanotheruser> do you not have a postal system?
08:41 < FourFire> yes we do
08:42 < justanotheruser> ok good
08:42 < kanzure> justanotheruser: i think i left home about 3 months ago
08:42 < FourFire> it's just stupidly expensive
08:42 < FourFire> internal shipping in this country can be more expensive than worldwide shipping
08:42 < justanotheruser> nice
08:43 < FourFire> kanzure, neat, I wish more things were automated: if all the humans were taken out of the loop for services then everything would be loads cheaper
08:43 < FourFire> the expense comes from the employing humans overhead
08:43 < kanzure> they should just catapult me food
08:44 < justanotheruser> I'm not sure when to take kanzure serious, but I'm almost certain thats a joke
08:44 < FourFire> everyone has loads of rights, pension insurance premiums and taxes paid by their employers
08:44 < kanzure> catapults are very efficient
08:45 < FourFire> that's great for people who have bloated bureaucratic jobs
08:46 < cluckj> wut
08:47 < kanzure> (for the record i got out of the house earlier this morning for a long errands-related drive)
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09:07 < andytoshi> so i just got a text message "email unstaged at fri mar 27 09:06:28" from my mail server :D
09:08 < andytoshi> (it takes my mailserver 1-30 seconds to archive my old mail and bring new mail in, and before i would just keep refreshing my inbox. now i get texts)
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09:51 < CaptHindsight> Viper168: http://omlc.org/spectra/PhotochemCAD/html/140.html  Chlorin e6  is a photosensitizer. Take a look at its emission data
09:52 < CaptHindsight> after looking at this I wonder how many other treatments have actually in use by the military
09:52 < nmz787_i> what makes the emission interesting to you?
09:52 < nmz787_i> other than it's in the VIS?
09:53 < CaptHindsight> biocompatible
09:53 < nmz787_i> you can tell it's biocompatible based on the radiation it emits?
09:53 < CaptHindsight> that was the answer to your first question
09:54 < kanzure> andytoshi: congrats, all for the low price of $20/sms
09:54 < nmz787_i> my first question was regarding the emission, but I don't see how that connects to biocompatibility.
09:55 < CaptHindsight> I assumed its biocompatible since it's used as a treatment and that someone let themselves had it injected directly into their eyes
09:55 < andytoshi> kanzure: lol, it's .75c ... though if i send 5 million in a month it'll drop to .5c
09:56 < CaptHindsight> the emission and absorption spectra just shows how it works to aid in night vision
09:56 < andytoshi> they sent me an email the day after i registered (since i just clicked around their site confused about how to pay then didn't do anything i guess) asking what i was up to and if they could help
09:57 < nmz787_i> doesn't honestly seem to imply aiding in night vision just based on the abs and emission data to me.
09:57 < andytoshi> i told them i was texting myself when i checked my email and wasn't gonna give them more than $2/mo ... we'll see if they offer me some sorta discount :)
09:57 < nmz787_i> fluorescense is a frequency downconverter... military night vision for example is an upconverter.
09:57 < CaptHindsight> whats next? finding a suitable photosensitizer that is absorbed by the retina
09:59 < nmz787_i> I'm not sure where the blue/near-UV at night would be coming from.
10:00 < kanzure> andytoshi: great, now i know how to ddos your budget
10:03 < andytoshi> hehe
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10:09 < CaptHindsight> nmz787: fluorescense can be up or down converting, I'll look for the actual graphs for Chlorin e6 when I get some time
10:11 < kanzure> CaptHindsight: by the way, i hope yuo know, i am a huge admirer of your nick
10:11 < kanzure> frankly i have been considering switching to "CaptForesight"
10:11 < CaptHindsight> heh
10:12 < CaptHindsight> CaptUnderpants was already taken
10:12 < kanzure> understandably
10:13 < CaptHindsight> yikes!  http://www.businessinsider.com/why-captain-underpants-is-the-most-banned-book-in-america-2013-9
10:16 < CaptHindsight> kanzure: after reading over several of your links what strikes me is that there should be much more crossover and cooperation between biomed and mechanical/chemical/electronic engineering
10:16 < kanzure> certainly
10:16 < CaptHindsight> I see lots of bio or med researchers trying to be electrical and mechanical engineers
10:17 < kanzure> "what's a solidworks?"
10:17 < kanzure> "is that a government works program?"
10:19 < andytoshi> CaptHindsight: that businessinsider article leads to http://www.ala.org/bbooks/about which is actually very interesting
10:20 < andytoshi> i was unaware that this was a thing in america
10:20 < andytoshi> (i'm certain it is in canada, though i doubt any of it is in the public eye like this)
10:20 < CaptHindsight> andytoshi: pretty sad
10:21 < CaptHindsight> do you really want to get depressed?
10:22 < andytoshi> well, this site is encouraging because it's exposing and fighting against this kinda crap ... it looks like a lot of it is local movements to ban books from local libraries
10:22 < andytoshi> which is totally unsurprising and ought to be in the public eye
10:22 < CaptHindsight> look into the history of education in the USA and who decides what goes into textbooks and the curriculum
10:23 < andytoshi> ok, sure, textbooks are obviously indoctrination, but this is transparently obvious even to young students
10:24 < andytoshi> well, maybe not .. i recall in high school asking questions like "what about XX? why aren't they talking about YY? this is false, this is inconsistent, etc" and my peers were generally surprised
10:24 < andytoshi> but more because they weren't reading anything, not (i think) because they were buying it :P
10:25 < CaptHindsight> my kids were forced into public education from time to time by the courts in the US
10:25 < CaptHindsight> I had some interesting discussions with school administrators over the years
10:26 < andytoshi> as a student i had some interesting discussions with them, i concluded they were actually just evil
10:26 < CaptHindsight> pretty much
10:26 < andytoshi> in hindsight my opinion has not changed
10:26 < CaptHindsight> accept and drink the coolaid
10:28 < CaptHindsight> over the years I've seen lots of fiends and acquaintances study and go into education only later to leave and are now in real estate, financial or the service industry
10:28 < CaptHindsight> they genuinely wanted to help people and change the system but could not
10:30 < CaptHindsight> https://www.johntaylorgatto.com/  did a great job subverting from within
10:35 < andytoshi> i'm really enjoying this ALA stuff http://www.ala.org/bbooks/challengedmaterials/preparation/censor-motives-and-tactics it's really snarky
10:36 < andytoshi> it uses polite language and says shit like "Although an attempt to stereotype the censor would be unfair, one generalization can be made: regardless of specific motives, all would-be censors share one belief-that they can recognize "evil" and that other people must be protected from it. Censors do not necessarily believe their own morals should be protected, but they do feel compelled to save their
10:36 < andytoshi> fellows."
10:37 < t12> i dunno thats a bit persumptive
10:37 < t12> maybe it must be marketed as that they can recognize evil
10:38 < t12> but i think most people in any formal position that involves marketing and lying
10:38 < t12> know they're lying
10:38 < t12> and have some other motive/rationale
10:38 < andytoshi> t12: these aren't formally-positioned people, they're mostly "concerned parents"
10:38 < t12> an angry parent isnt a censor
10:38 < andytoshi> certainly paid people know they're lying, otherwise they'd trip up
10:38 < t12> the school admin who bans the book is
10:39 < andytoshi> well those people don't believe in truth or lies, they only want to retard human progress
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10:39 < t12> also persumptive i think its more about maintaing control
10:39 < t12> modeling these things as control sort of issues makes it a bit more rational
10:42 < andytoshi> so, the school admins who receive notes saying some student has completed all the course material for a high school course and am literally staring at walls for hours on end, surely there is some policy for accelerating him or waiving courses or something
10:42 < andytoshi> ...and reply with "no, he must stare at the wall until he loses his mind"
10:42 < andytoshi> where is the control?
10:42 < andytoshi> that is just aimless sociopathy
10:43 < andytoshi> "here is an opportunity to increase the suffering in the world. i must take it"
10:43 < nmz787_i> .wik photon upconversion
10:44 < yoleaux> "Photon upconversion (UC) is a process in which the sequential absorption of two or more photons leads to the emission of light at shorter wavelength than the excitation wavelength. It is an anti-Stokes type emission. An example is the conversion of infrared light to visible light." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photon_upconversion
10:44 < maaku> andytoshi: praise whatever ledgislature enacted the high school proficiency exam
10:44 < nmz787_i> I wonder how often two night-time photons hit your eye coincidentally
10:44 < maaku> i just wish more people knew about it
10:45 < maaku> i used it to skip out of two otherwise wasted years of my life
10:45 < CaptHindsight> heh, I don't think it's 2 photon happening there
10:46 < andytoshi> maaku: hmm, i will check on such a thing in BC
10:47 < andytoshi> or maybe you can take the US one and it'd count in canada
10:47 < maaku> andytoshi: well just about anywhere there is exams for adults to get a high school equiv certificate, called the GED in the states
10:47 < maaku> what's less advertised is that kids can take it too
10:48 < maaku> in california specifically there's a state-level one which is even easier -- 3 hr exam with embarassingly easy content
10:48 < andytoshi> maaku: in BC i think if you take a GED that is easily checked and employers/universities read that as you being a deadbeat
10:48 < andytoshi> maybe i'm wrong about universities
10:48 < andytoshi> and if you get a degree hs doesn't matter
10:48 < maaku> andytoshi: that's what community college is for. no one cares after you get something else
10:49 < CaptHindsight> nmz787: not sure yet but it might work more like a dye sensitizer
10:49 < maaku> e.g. in the bay area, De Anza college (and another of other local junior colledges) have guaranteed admission agreements with Berkeley, which was my original plan
10:49 < maaku> you show up with your GED or whatever, sign a contract that says if you take and get a passing grade in courses X Y and Z, you get automatic enrollment in berkeley
10:50 < CaptHindsight> "The dye photosensitizer absorbs light, then undergoes energy, charge, and/or electron transfer with the coinitiator,"
10:50 < andytoshi> ya on the right http://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/topic.page?id=AA7ED4837C9A4854B1E868DB829C39ED says a GED is probably not good enough for most things also "the ministry of truth has discontinued the GED program"
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10:50 < maaku> having a GED-equivalent didn't stop me getting a job at NASA right out of college :P
10:50 < andytoshi> the adult education program requires you be 18 wtf
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10:51 < maaku> andytoshi: :(
10:51 < andytoshi> maaku: BC has a third-world style education program, there are no AP courses and the standard courses were almost entirely things i knew before i was eight
10:51 < FourFire> haha I recall reading that book
10:51 < andytoshi> and they are very very insistent that children put their hours in
10:51 < andytoshi> so i'm not surprised they would do something like this
10:52 < CaptHindsight> andytoshi: school systems get funding based on the number of warm blood filled meat sacks that spend 6+ hours withing their walls each day until they reach 18
10:52 < andytoshi> having said that, there are (a) online courses that you can take shitloads of and are very quick to do if you're motivated, (b) when i was in hs their scheduling system had a bug that let me put multiple courses in the same block
10:53 < CaptHindsight> down here they actually take attendance several times each day since their funding for next year is directly tied to the current semesters attendance
10:53 < andytoshi> like, there was no physical way i was as many bodies as they were scheduled
10:53 < andytoshi> they did take attendence, but i had a few sympathetic teachers who would always mark me present
10:53 < andytoshi> and many non-sympathetic ones ... my parents got a lot of phone calls
10:54 < andytoshi> literally every day for 2-3 years they got "your student has missed one or more classes" from an automated system
10:55 < kanzure> eric hunting is in the textbook industry, so for terrible textbook stories i would go to him (tmp2 author)
10:55 < CaptHindsight> my daughter completed here HS courses by 12 and scored >1300 on the SAT but the public school system didn't care, they just wanted her in their rooms until she wasn't a source of finding for them
10:56 < andytoshi> in bc it was less transparent. idk where money flowed or how it related to me attendence, i just know that i was hounded by govt officials who wanted to imprison me for years on end
10:56 < andytoshi> and whenever i was able to communicate with them they acted like characters in 1984
10:56 < CaptHindsight> they weren't even flexible enough to let her out early to attend her college classes
10:56 < kanzure> yes andytoshi was in the bc math immersion classes, i uess
10:56 < FourFire> "i recall in high school asking questions like "what about XX? why aren't they talking about YY? this is false, this is inconsistent, etc" and my peers were generally surprised" heh, same here :(
10:56 < kanzure> not sure why CaptHindsight put a daughter through high school
10:57 < CaptHindsight> courts
10:57 < andytoshi> kanzure: for math specifically i was homeschooled and finished all the math BC had to offer by 14, i did no mathematics in high school
10:57 < CaptHindsight> choice of that or prison
10:57 < kanzure> united states?
10:57 < CaptHindsight> yup
10:57 < kanzure> there are some states that are more friendly to not doing high school
10:57 < kanzure> also you could have claimed she ran away
10:58 < andytoshi> it is a wonder i can think, i spent those years with nothing analytic to do, was required legally to stare at walls for several hours a day, and was going through over a fifth of liquor every week to cope
10:58 < andytoshi> but brains are good at recovering apparently, less than 2 years later i was smart again :P
10:58 < kanzure> i spent time in my high school classes with wireshark trying to get wifi access
10:59 < CaptHindsight> it was like prison to me
10:59 < andytoshi> i don't think we had wifi at my scheel
10:59 < andytoshi> CaptHindsight: ditto
10:59 < CaptHindsight> this was in the 70's
10:59 < kanzure> jrayhawk is the only reasonable one out of all of us here
10:59 < kanzure> really pathetic
11:00 < FourFire> yeah, it's a shame I didn't escape
11:00 < andytoshi> maybe you can test out of high school in alberta, my brother can drive over and do that..
11:00 < FourFire> I've yet to reach my potential, maybe school permanently damaged me
11:00 < andytoshi> nope, 18+
11:00 < CaptHindsight> I left on my 16th birthday
11:01 < CaptHindsight> 16 was the age that you could no longer be arrested for not attending
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11:01 < kanzure> oh
11:02 < kanzure> i guess jrayhawk is not the only reasonable one
11:02 < CaptHindsight> any nobody cares about anything farther back than your last degree or last job unless..
11:02 < CaptHindsight> you want to work for the FBI or similar
11:03 < CaptHindsight> I know someone's HS record from 8 years previous prevented them from getting hired
11:03 < CaptHindsight> they go back 10 years no matter what, so the everything gets wiped clean at 18 is another BS story
11:05 < andytoshi> ontario is 18+ ... saskatchewan is 18+ ... manitoba is 19+ ... nova scotia is 19+ ... new brunswick is 19+ ... newfoundland is 19+ ... pei is 18+ ... quebec i can't find but you almost certainly need to know french to do it
11:06 < andytoshi> that's all the provinces. wtf
11:09 < CaptHindsight> in the US you can look back to the late 50's and early 60's when the anti-intellectual movement got started
11:10 < CaptHindsight> I think my generation is the dumbest since they started keeping records
11:10 < andytoshi> in WA you can take the GED at 16, but you won't get credit unless you are a WA resident
11:12 < CaptHindsight> there are a few accredited HS in the US that award regular diplomas that you can use online or though the mail
11:12 < CaptHindsight> is costs a few $$ and you need to show the work
11:12 < nmz787_i> i felt pretty dirty after taking the GED test... because I could have done it after 8th grade... and it really made me think about all the other people who get GEDs and struggled to get through it
11:12 < kanzure> that's why you should intentionally answer incorrectly on a few questions
11:13 < kanzure> you shouldn't make it look too easy
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11:13 < CaptHindsight> http://www.narhs.org/  is one
11:13 < andytoshi> nmz787_i: i knew a 40 year old who was abused as a child and was severely developmentally stunted because of it. he got his ged when i was in hs (and bitching constantly about it), i remember being thrilled for him and also feeling really really weird
11:14 < andytoshi> got his ged at 40*
11:14 < CaptHindsight> https://iuhighschool.iu.edu/  is another
11:15 < CaptHindsight> most of the city/county colleges around here will offer you the classes and GED for a few hundred $
11:15 < CaptHindsight> but you might have to be 19+
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11:35 < FourFire> nmz787_i, don't feel dirty! You've got an advantage, so use it :P
11:36 < nmz787_i> hehe
11:36 < nmz787_i> well that was around 10 years ago
11:38 < FourFire> yeah, I mean, don't stop
11:40 < nmz787_i> just found out this morning that I passed my last chemistry class to get my B.S. !
11:53 < justanotheruser> grats
12:08 < the8thbit|work> hi
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13:20 < kanzure> nmz787_i: your employer might give you a raise. go ask your HR department.
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14:15 < nmz787_i> recommendations on Windows video/screen recording software?
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14:29 < kanzure> "Fast inverse square-root hack with magic constant 0x5f3759df" http://h14s.p5r.org/2012/09/0x5f3759df.html
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14:34 < GregBrimble> Hey, new here, but to those who had anything to do with Cody's EmoKit project, for reverse engineering the Emotiv EEG headset, I have a question if it isn't too much bother.
14:34 < andytoshi> can someone help me understand this article? http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-03-27/the-atheism-gap the thesis i think is that atheism is a movement that "needs" a different demographic makeup, is that correct?
14:35 < andytoshi> i'm not trying to start shit (and i guess i wouldn't, here, just by bringing up race or religion), i'm actually confused what the politics in america around this are
14:35 < GregBrimble> I was wondering if the seemingly new EPOC headset sold by Emotiv would still work with the EmoKit, despite its creation with the previous hardware. Can anyone confirm this either way before I purchase? Thanks.
14:36 < kanzure> andytoshi: you would probably get much better insight in #slatestarcodex
14:36 < kanzure> 14:36 [freenode] -!- Cannot join to channel #slatestarcodex (You are banned)
14:37 < kanzure> hahaha
14:37 < kanzure> oh well
14:37 < kanzure> GregBrimble: i'm not sure if the new headset still works with emokit, :\
14:37 < kanzure> GregBrimble: you'll probably get better results posting to the emokit issue tracker
14:37 < andytoshi> thx kanzure , i'll see what that is
14:37 < kanzure> andytoshi: http://slatestarcodex.com/tag/atheism/
14:38 < GregBrimble> kanzure: Thanks. It was just if someone knew straight off. Appreciate the help.
14:38 < kanzure> i can't really remember everyone that has an emotiv, but i think someone in here recently got one
14:39 < kanzure> night: was it you
14:39 < cluckj> andytoshi, more like athesis
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14:42 < andytoshi> cluckj: heehee
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14:43 < cluckj> andytoshi, I'm not sure that particular article has a thesis
14:43 < cluckj> it's a little bit disjointed right in the middle
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14:48 < chris_99> i'm just wondering if anyone could give me some advice, i'm using a ToF sensor to obtain the displacement of a hydrometer, but i'm wondering how best to convert this distance to SG.  I've got two readings of (SG,distance) for different density liquids, and was thinking of using the line from that, to work out the SG from any distance
14:50 < kanzure> SG=?
14:50 < chris_99> specific gravity
14:51 < kanzure> .wa specific gravity of 1 km displaced
14:51 < yoleaux> kanzure: Sorry, no result!
14:51 < kanzure> hmph
15:00 < andytoshi> cluckj: i think i got my answer about where it's coming from in the comments (there is indeed an "atheist movement" that cares about promoting atheism; for many people including pundits this is the only overt example of atheism they see so they use "atheist" to refer to a member of this movement; then you can write an article about a "problem atheism has" which is entirely political and has nothing to
15:00 < andytoshi> do with the existence of God at all)
15:00 < andytoshi> but agreed, it's a bit disjointed anyway
15:01 < cluckj> yes
15:01 < kanzure> there is an "atheism movement" but it's basically just a bunch of people on reddit and blogs complaining to each other
15:01 < cluckj> the "movement" is kind of an aggressive cult
15:02 < kanzure> ugh and nuanced history like atheism plus
15:03 < kanzure> ugh, stuff.
15:03 < kanzure> stuff is the worst.
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15:04 < cluckj> fuckin' stuff
15:15 < cluckj> andytoshi, that's kind of a thing with pundits more than movements
15:15 < cluckj> the over-generalizing bit
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15:20 < kanzure> https://soundcloud.com/steve-sai/daniel-camarillo-button-steve-sai-remix-suffused-music-sc-preview
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15:22 < nmz787_i> andytoshi: I'd tend to think religion statistics aren't reported honestly by non-believers
15:23 < nmz787_i> chris_99: yeah you'd probably need to get a calibration curve
15:23 < nmz787_i> so known SG with known ToF readings (or displacement values)
15:23 < chris_99> so you think 2 points at least would be necessary right?
15:24 < nmz787_i> ideally 3 points or more
15:24 < nmz787_i> then you just interpolate
15:24 < chris_99> ah okey dokey
15:24 < nmz787_i> 2 works, but if it's non-linear it won't tell you
15:24 < chris_99> mmm true
15:25 < nmz787_i> I guess you'd just grab some vodka, measure... add water, measure, add water, measure (making sure the volume of each sample was the same)
15:25 < chris_99> i could do it via different densities using diff. ammounts of sugar
15:25 < nmz787_i> you want to use a least-squares regression... lots of ways to get that with libraries (or excel/openoffice)
15:26 < chris_99> ah ok, i've not used that, so that'd generate the line for me?
15:26 < nmz787_i> well you don't want to measure sugar though, right?
15:26 < chris_99> yeah beer, is all about sugar
15:26 < nmz787_i> so you're saying the alcohol doesn't affect the SG? it's the decreasing amount of sugar in solution?
15:26 < chris_99> you calculate abv, from (initial sg - final sg) * 131
15:27 < chris_99> but yeah the densitity relates strongly to sugar
15:28 < nmz787_i> just go grab a 6-pack of various strengths :P
15:28 < nmz787_i> but the exact readings will likely vary from one batch to another
15:28 < chris_99> https://www.anfractuosity.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/IMG_9342-e1427488936800-683x1024.jpg is what it looks like heh
15:28 < nmz787_i> since the starting point will be diff brews I imagine
15:28 < nmz787_i> diff initial malts levels, et
15:29 < nmz787_i> the other thing you can probably do is just look at the derivative of your data
15:29 < nmz787_i> to see when the slope starts to decrease
15:29 < nmz787_i> and you know you're getting to the end of the fermentation
15:29 < chris_99> ah yeah that's a good idea
15:29 < nmz787_i> (or know you have to add something to get it going again)
15:30 < chris_99> i'm applying a gaussian filter to smooth some of the readings from the ToF chip atm, which may not be the greatest idea, but it makes the data a lot easier to understand
15:30 < nmz787_i> " relative density compared to water"
15:31 < nmz787_i> so just measure water, then add some known thing like sugar (as you said)
15:31 < chris_99> yeah i measured it in water
15:31 < nmz787_i> and you'll get your curve
15:31 < chris_99> and also in this batch of beer
15:31 < nmz787_i> (as long as the volume measured is the same each time)
15:31 < chris_99> volume doesn't matter
15:31 < nmz787_i> a median filter would probably do it too
15:32 < nmz787_i> how much does it vary?
15:32 < chris_99> quite a lot, so for s.g. of 1, the distance was 161mm
15:32 < chris_99> for an s.g. of 1.050 the distance was 60mm
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15:42 < jrayhawk> i have a friend who dropped out of middle school
15:42 < jrayhawk> i wish i had been that smart
15:43 < kanzure> let's start an organization called "international relief agency for reminding middle schoolers that they will never be this cool"
15:43 < jrayhawk> it upsets me every time it is mentioned because it is a reminder that i wasted those extra years of my life
15:44 < nmz787_i> chris_99: i meant for a given SG, how much does the sensor reading vary.
15:45 < nmz787_i> hoenstly the real problem is that school isn't good enough
15:45 < nmz787_i> not that school is bad in general
15:45 < kanzure> it's pretty bad
15:45 < chris_99> oh sorry, i'll upload a graph nmz787_i
15:45 < nmz787_i> go be dumb on your own then
15:45 < kanzure> there is nothing humane about forced labor
15:46 < nmz787_i> that isn't the definition of school
15:46 < nmz787_i> and it's 'human' to force labor
15:46 < nmz787_i> weird how 'average human trait' doesn't convert to 'ideal human trait'
15:48 < chris_99> nmz787_i, scroll down to the very bottom https://www.anfractuosity.com/projects/zymeter-simple/ (2 graphs one with gaussian filter)
15:48 < jrayhawk> the only way i forsee making school "good enough" is for there to be less of it. that said, the sudbury model seems largely satisfactory.
15:49 < nmz787_i> i disagree with 'less school
15:49 < nmz787_i> '
15:49 < kanzure> "the only way that i see schools working out is if they relinquish complete system control to me, because i'm probably the only person on the planet that can handle this level of nuancy" </eliezer's ghost>
15:49 < nmz787_i> that seems like i would just be a lot more stupid
15:50 < nmz787_i> chris_99: oh, I thought you were averaging only over a few immediately subsequent readings
15:50 < jrayhawk> schooling ostensibly teaches the wisdom of "how to get things done", and everyone argues about it at this level because they miss the bigger picture of what has been lost. Specifically, the wisdom of "what things are worth doing".
15:51 < kanzure> nmz787_i: so why is compulsory education okay, but compulsory employment isn't?
15:51 < nmz787_i> school != compulsory
15:51 < nmz787_i> at least not in most of the population worldwide
15:51 < nmz787_i> most kids are too poor for school
15:51 < chris_99> yeah each sample is an average of 100 readings, in the noisey one
15:52 < nmz787_i> huh
15:52 < kanzure> whether kids are too poor has no standing in an argument as ot whether school is compulsory in the united states
15:52 < nmz787_i> i'd be really pissed if i was forced to go to school /and/ forced to work
15:52 < nmz787_i> who mentioned the U.S. before now?
15:53  * nmz787_i just got my new spectrometer!
15:53 < chris_99> oh is it good?
15:53 < nmz787_i> idk, should be
15:53 < nmz787_i> :D
15:53 < chris_99> i found the mass spec i was looking at a while ago is now £200 heh
15:53 < jrayhawk> there is no room for value system formation/validation/integration in a pedagogical environment unless that environment is non-compulsory
15:54 < kanzure> also it's just a big fat lie to kids
15:54 < jrayhawk> Instead we get generation after generation of society largely incapable of operating outside of systems of consensus and authority to dictate their values.
15:54 < nmz787_i> jrayhawk: sudbury is new to me... seems interesting
15:55 < nmz787_i> jrayhawk: if it was my kid, I'd obviously offer gentle encouragement
15:55 < kanzure> most kids are not going to be confident enough to realize that if they run away from home and school that they will most likely survive and thrive
15:55 < kanzure> the entire system is stacked against this idea their entire life
15:55 < nmz787_i> in addition to letting them steer a bit
15:55 < kanzure> telling them that they'll just end up rotting on the street or something
15:55 < kanzure> when the reality is that many people have lived and thrived long before school existed
15:55 < nmz787_i> kanzure: yep
15:55 < kanzure> okay... so how is that good?
15:56 < nmz787_i> i never said to run away from home or school
15:56 < nmz787_i> :/
15:56 < kanzure> i never claimed you did
15:56 < nmz787_i> just agreeing that they tell you bad things will happen
15:56 < kanzure> yes... and they are lying.
15:56 < nmz787_i> lying is never really good
15:57 < jrayhawk> to be honest, if state-friendly actors get ahold of them, the result is foster care, which does not have a good track record, and if state-unfriendly actors get ahold of them, the results aren't typically all that pretty, either.
15:57 < nmz787_i> so that seems like a different issue entirely
15:57 < kanzure> jrayhawk: i would say it probably depends on what they are doing with their time instead
15:57 < kanzure> nmz787_i: i am ust trying to convince you that it has nothing to do with whether they are dumb or stupid
15:58 < nmz787_i> i'm pretty sure people would be a lot less learned if school just evaporated today
15:58 < kanzure> that doesn't make them dumb or stupid -_-
15:59 < nmz787_i> isn't learning like the cure for being dumb/stupid?
16:04 < mosasaur> a small subset of people monopolizes what the next generation thinks and which values they have, they also enforce age stratification which has consequences for how people interact socially later on
16:05 < nmz787_i> so are we talking about two different ideas, school vs (semi-directed) education?
16:06 < jrayhawk> http://mhkeehn.tripod.com/ughoae.pdf also this is an okay book
16:07 < jrayhawk> https://archive.org/details/TheUndergroundHistoryOfAmericanEducation_758 oh hey, more formats
16:09 < cluckj> neat
16:17 < kanzure> hmm.
16:18 < cluckj> students are generally not stupid, or passive agents in their own education
16:18 < kanzure> even if they are stupid, i think that's a separate topic
16:18 < kanzure> there are other social support systems for the profoundly challenged
16:18 < cluckj> the education system treats them like they are
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16:19 < eudoxia> .title https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9277753
16:19 < yoleaux> Ikea's flat-pack refugee shelter is entering production | Hacker News
16:19 < cluckj> and the political system treats adults as if they are stupid, too
16:20 < cluckj> maybe I'm just in a smash the system mood today :\
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16:34 < kanzure> "Physics in 100 years" http://arxiv.org/pdf/1503.07735v1.pdf
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17:05 < kanzure> i'm not sure how to feel about http://xkcd.com/1502/ (typing stuff)
17:10 < kanzure> https://medium.com/backchannel/inside-the-deep-web-drug-lab-9718cd0fe504
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22:27 < kanzure> hmph
22:31 < JayDugger1> Good morning.
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22:46 < delinquentme_> HUahahahhhhhughghguhguhguhguhje
22:46 < delinquentme_> "ray kurzweil is a pessimist" - george church
22:47 < delinquentme_> hahaha i lurve my friends
22:54 < kanzure> he really said that
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DCC SEND STARTKEYLOGGER 0 0 0
 سمَـَّوُوُحخ ̷̴̐خ ̷̴̐خ ̷̴̐خ امارتيخ ̷̴̐خ"]
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23:33 < JayDugger1> What context does Mr. Church's optimism have?
23:35 < delinquentme_> JayDugger1:he hangs out here.
23:39 < JayDugger1> Ah.
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--- Log closed Sat Mar 28 00:00:35 2015