--- Log opened Fri Apr 17 00:00:55 2015 00:08 -!- FourFire [~fourfire@185.7.192.138] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:08 < FourFire> Hello, kanzure what is that context of the topic quote? 00:16 -!- Burnin8 [~Burn@pool-71-241-254-153.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:18 -!- yashgaroth [~ffffff@2602:306:35fa:d500:21fa:7f6f:f2b3:6014] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:18 -!- Burninate [~Burn@pool-71-241-254-153.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:30 -!- yashgaroth [~ffffff@2602:306:35fa:d500:65ee:3ec0:ce94:473f] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:59 -!- drewbot [~cinch@ec2-54-145-72-65.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:00 -!- drewbot [~cinch@ec2-54-166-89-148.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:05 -!- rakka|gym is now known as haibane_rakka 01:32 -!- JayDugger [~jwdugger@108.19.186.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:58 -!- zadock [~zadock@5-13-166-44.residential.rdsnet.ro] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:12 -!- zadock [~zadock@5-13-177-180.residential.rdsnet.ro] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:15 -!- zadock [~zadock@5-13-177-180.residential.rdsnet.ro] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:25 -!- augur [~augur@c-71-57-177-235.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:26 -!- augur [~augur@c-71-57-177-235.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:31 -!- zadock [~zadock@5-13-232-56.residential.rdsnet.ro] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:40 -!- zadock [~zadock@5-13-232-56.residential.rdsnet.ro] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:42 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:49 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:49 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:13 -!- JayDugger [~jwdugger@108.19.186.58] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:17 -!- Urchin [~urchin@unaffiliated/urchin] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:20 -!- Viper168_ [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:21 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:23 -!- Viper168_ is now known as Viper168 03:24 -!- haibane_rakka [a9fdc201@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.169.253.194.1] has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 04:11 -!- jdolan [~jdolan@c-50-188-243-111.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:32 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tajeqdyzscgqvksj] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:46 < archels> .head www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov 04:46 < yoleaux> 200, text/html, 14085 bytes 04:46 < archels> not loading here 04:47 < chris_99> works here 04:47 < cluckj> works here too 04:48 < archels> it just sits at "connecting..." here, even on wired connection/different PC 04:51 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@2a02:810b:33f:dc18:7826:2236:d386:23f4] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:51 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@2a02:810b:33f:dc18:7826:2236:d386:23f4] has quit [Changing host] 04:51 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:04 -!- FourFire [~fourfire@185.7.192.138] has left ##hplusroadmap ["Leaving"] 05:05 -!- FourFire [~FourFire@185.7.192.138] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:13 -!- jdolan [~jdolan@c-50-188-243-111.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:26 < kanzure> http://i.imgur.com/efjrGqf.jpg 05:27 < kanzure> http://i.imgur.com/mj5vC8B.jpg 05:27 < kanzure> http://i.imgur.com/vToUXzg.png 05:27 < kanzure> propaganda http://imgur.com/a/UwcaF 05:27 < kanzure> bb8 rolling on to stage http://i.imgur.com/umSzUjp.gifv 05:28 < kanzure> FourFire: george church quote is from george church conference talk 06:00 -!- cpopell`werk [~cpopell@209.48.69.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:07 -!- cpopell`werk [~cpopell@209.48.69.2] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:25 -!- Zinglon [~Zinglon@ip565f6f48.direct-adsl.nl] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:35 -!- sivoais_ is now known as sivoais 06:35 -!- sivoais [~zaki@199.19.225.239] has quit [Changing host] 06:35 -!- sivoais [~zaki@unaffiliated/sivoais] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:40 -!- sheena [~home@S0106c8be196316d1.ok.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:48 -!- cpopell`werk2 [~cpopell@209.48.69.2] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:52 -!- cpopell`werk [~cpopell@209.48.69.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 07:04 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r167-57-32-180.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:10 -!- jdolan [~jdolan@208.83.72.113] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:26 < kanzure> another fun selective breeding project would be for shorter duration of sleep in mice 07:27 < kanzure> "How to run far: multiple solutions and sex-specific responses to selective breeding for high voluntary activity levels" http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3025687/ 07:28 < kanzure> "The response to uniform selection may occur in alternate ways that result in similar performance. We tested for multiple adaptive solutions during artificial selection for high voluntary wheel running in laboratory mice. At generation 43, the four replicate high runner (HR) lines averaged 2.85-fold more revolutions per day as compared with four non-selected control (C) lines, and females ran 1.11-fold more than males, with no ... 07:28 < kanzure> ... sex-by-linetype interaction. Analysis of variance indicated significant differences among C lines but not among HR for revolutions per day. By contrast, average speed varied significantly among HR lines, but not among C, and showed a sex-by-linetype interaction, with the HR/C ratio being 2.02 for males and 2.45 for females. Time spent running varied among both HR and C lines, and showed a sex-by-linetype interaction, with the HR/C ... 07:28 < kanzure> ... ratio being 1.52 for males but only 1.17 for females. Thus, females (speed) and males (speed, but also time) evolved differently, as did the replicate selected lines. Speed and time showed a trade-off among HR but not among C lines. These results demonstrate that uniform selection on a complex trait can cause consistent responses in the trait under direct selection while promoting divergence in the lower-level components of that ... 07:28 < kanzure> ... trait." 07:29 < kanzure> "Replicated selection experiments of various types provide a powerful way to explore multiple solutions that may occur in response to relatively well-defined types of selection [13–18]. As noted by Mayr ([2], p. 1505), ‘Breeders and students of natural selection have discovered again and again that independent parallel lines exposed to the same selection pressures will respond at different rates and with different effects, none of ... 07:29 < kanzure> ... them predictable’ (but see [19]). Most commonly, experimental evolution approaches begin with replicate populations derived from the same genetic stock, i.e. lines whose ‘gene pools’ are initially identical except for sampling (founder) effects." 07:29 < kanzure> what. there's no way that people start with such an empty gene pool. why would you do that. 07:29 < kanzure> "As one example, Weber et al. [20] compared five replicate pairs of Drosophila melanogaster lines that had been divergently selected with respect to wing shape. They found that 29 loci showed consistent expression differences in all five paired comparisons. However, for a pair of lines that derived from a different base population the significant loci were almost entirely different. Thus, the gene pool of the starting population ... 07:29 < kanzure> ... influenced the evolutionary outcome at the level of gene expression. Weber et al. [20] did not indicate whether the replicate selected lines showed consistent divergences with respect to the trait under selection, i.e. wing shape." 07:33 < kanzure> hah what "Genetically correlated effects of selective breeding for high and low methamphetamine consumption" http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1601-183X.2009.00522.x/full 07:43 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tajeqdyzscgqvksj] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 07:51 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:56 -!- HEx1 [~HEx@hexwab.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:14 -!- HEx1 [~HEx@hexwab.plus.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:16 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:30 -!- cluckj [~cluckj@c-71-225-211-210.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:36 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gqsdnlsnpwmgmfzp] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:03 -!- Zinglon [~Zinglon@ip565f6f48.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:06 -!- JayDugger [~jwdugger@108.19.186.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:30 -!- gene_hacker [~chatzilla@c-98-232-239-159.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:39 -!- delinquentme [~textual@192.77.237.84] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:40 -!- delinquentme [~textual@192.77.237.84] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 09:41 -!- delinquentme [~textual@192.77.237.84] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:46 -!- JayDugger [~jwdugger@108.19.186.58] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:35 < kanzure> why did they take 40 generations for that 10:39 < kanzure> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutation_breeding#Mutagenic_varietals 10:39 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r167-57-32-180.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:43 < kanzure> "Stickleback fish have both marine and freshwater species, the freshwater species evolving since the last ice age. Fresh water species can survive colder temperatures. Scientists tested to see if they could reproduce this evolution of cold-tolerance by keeping marine sticklebacks in cold freshwater. It took the marine sticklebacks only three generations to evolve to match the 2.5 degree celsius improvement in cold-tolerance found in wild ... 10:43 < kanzure> ... freshwater sticklebacks.[18]" 10:43 < kanzure> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Experimental_evolution 10:43 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gqsdnlsnpwmgmfzp] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 10:50 -!- Zinglon [~Zinglon@ip565f6f48.direct-adsl.nl] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:17 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vmvyzozlffdsqhzf] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:23 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:31 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:38 -!- delinquentme [~textual@192.77.237.84] has quit [] 11:43 -!- delinquentme [~textual@192.77.237.84] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:44 -!- delinquentme [~textual@192.77.237.84] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 11:44 -!- delinquentme [~textual@192.77.237.84] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:18 < CaptHindsight> who currently have the fastest DNA sequencer available? 12:33 < kanzure> do you mean "the most parallel"? 12:41 < CaptHindsight> if you want to sequence an entire strand who has the fastest sequencer available? 12:41 < CaptHindsight> like the nanopore only with better accuracy 12:50 -!- fauxami_ [fauxami@dialup.top-site.us] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:53 -!- FourFire [~FourFire@185.7.192.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:54 -!- fauxami_ [fauxami@dialup.top-site.us] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:58 -!- fauxami_ [fauxami@dialup.top-site.us] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:59 -!- fauxami_ [fauxami@dialup.top-site.us] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:02 < CaptHindsight> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNA_sequencing#Illumina_.28Solexa.29_sequencing 13:02 < CaptHindsight> "throughput can be multiples of 1 million nucleotides/second, corresponding roughly to 1 human genome equivalent at 1x coverage per hour per instrument" 13:03 -!- delinquentme [~textual@192.77.237.84] has quit [] 13:04 -!- jdolan [~jdolan@208.83.72.113] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:06 -!- gene_hacker [~chatzilla@128-193-152-178.ptpg.oregonstate.edu] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:09 < kanzure> gene_hacker: yo 13:09 < gene_hacker> yo 13:11 < kanzure> i need 2 million mice by tomorrow do you have a person 13:12 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:12 < catern> science trucker 13:13 < gene_hacker> if you were in maryland, they could probably get you some within a day 13:29 -!- gene_hacker [~chatzilla@128-193-152-178.ptpg.oregonstate.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:41 -!- cluckj [~cluckj@c-71-225-211-210.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:46 -!- gene_hacker [~chatzilla@128-193-152-178.ptpg.oregonstate.edu] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:49 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:57 -!- nmz787_i [~ntmccork@192.55.55.37] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:58 < nmz787_i> gene_hacker: I bought an SEM a few days ago, should need minor work to get it up and running, at which I think it would then be minimal work to get it to be useful for producing photolith masks (or other patterning) 13:58 < chris_99> ooh, how much did that cost out of interest 14:00 < nmz787_i> .title http://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/edn-moments/4429862/RCA-demonstrates-electron-microscope--April-14--1940 14:00 < yoleaux> RCA demonstrates electron microscope, April 14, 1940 | EDN 14:00 < nmz787_i> chris_99: $200 14:01 < nmz787_i> kanzure: got the manual too... still waiting on some (partial from what I was told) schematics 14:01 < chris_99> wow! 14:01 < chris_99> how much fixing do you think it'll need 14:01 < nmz787_i> kanzure: also learned I can get more info if I sign an NDA with the manufacturer... but going to hold out on that unitl I get stuck (if that happens) 14:02 < nmz787_i> chris_99: I believe it's just a triangle/saw tooth wave generator and/or an amplifier that need work 14:02 < nmz787_i> so I am thinking of using that DDS generator like nickjohnson was working on (btw nickjohnson, are you selling those?)... or maybe just a DAC and an amp 14:03 < nmz787_i> DDS vs DAC will depend on if the DDS can change quickly enough such that it could be used for patterning, rather than just raster scanning like an old TV 14:03 < CaptHindsight> nmz787_i: post what you need before you sign an nda 14:03 < nmz787_i> CaptHindsight: yep 14:04 < nmz787_i> CaptHindsight: to be specific, I guess schematics/service-manual for a Jeol JSM-T200 14:04 < nmz787_i> i've posted asking in a few places online already 14:06 < CaptHindsight> nmz787_i: how handy are you with a scope? 14:08 -!- gene_hacker [~chatzilla@128-193-152-178.ptpg.oregonstate.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:09 < nmz787_i> CaptHindsight: i'm pretty decent with a microscope, spectroscope, and oscilloscope 14:09 < nmz787_i> i've used a periscope once or twice at a science center 14:09 < CaptHindsight> heh oscilloscope 14:10 < nmz787_i> yeah I've got a 4 channel gigasample Rigol 14:10 < CaptHindsight> worse comes to worse it's so old we should be able to figure out the electronics pretty easily 14:13 < CaptHindsight> https://youtu.be/SWVu-qPR-Ws?t=5m36s shows the board and his schematics 14:20 < CaptHindsight> nmz787_i: http://benkrasnow.blogspot.com/ maybe he can share the schematics ben dot krasnow at gmail 14:28 < cluckj> are you homebrewing an electron microscope? 14:46 < nmz787_i> CaptHindsight: ben's who told me about the NDA 14:46 < nmz787_i> cluckj: reverse engineering at the least! 14:46 < cluckj> sweet 14:46 < nmz787_i> CaptHindsight: I think he will send me photocopies of those schematics, as he received them without an NDA 14:47 < nmz787_i> but he said they were incomplete, at least compared to the NDA-related docs 14:56 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:57 < superkuh> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9396095 - The same end mechanistic outcome as galvanic vestibular stimulation but targeting way further down the chain. 15:01 < nmz787_i> omg google mail is such crap junk sometimes 15:02 < nmz787_i> I can't filter based on a subject having a square bracket (or a literal string for that matter) 15:02 < nmz787_i> ugh 15:02 * nmz787_i facepalm 15:02 * nmz787_i hates new-age software 15:02 * nmz787_i F-the-cloud 15:05 < chris_99> probably faster to download the data from google takeout and just grep it 15:07 < kanzure> deathamphetamine 15:13 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:15 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:16 -!- Burnin8 is now known as Burninate 15:19 < nmz787_i> chris_99: that would mean I need to use a different app on all my devices though then, right? since I can't have this filter on my phone, etc 15:20 < nmz787_i> (a new mailing list i'm on doesn't use LIST headers... and there are a ton of replies that are 'I AM OUT OF OFFICE - RESPONSE WILL BE SLOW' kind of mails in reply to the question I just asked about that SEM 15:21 < chris_99> oh i mean just as a one off thing, you can grab a dump of all your google stuff 15:22 < cluckj> nmz787, mind if I get nosy about it....for science? 15:24 < nmz787_i> cluckj: hmm? 15:24 < nmz787_i> cluckj: ask me questions? 15:24 < cluckj> yeah 15:24 < nmz787_i> sure 15:25 < cluckj> thanks 15:26 < nmz787_i> cluckj: what did you have in mind? 15:26 < cluckj> I'm not sure yet 15:27 < chris_99> have you got the SEM already? does most of the stuff power up? 15:29 < nmz787_i> chris_99: I need to pick it up.... was planning to move it into my new house, but that has been delayed for hopefully only 2 weeks... so I need to move it into storage for a few weeks until I get done moving 15:29 < chris_99> aha, i wonder, what kind of power it draws 15:29 < nmz787_i> they told me they were able to move it with 4 or 5 guys, but I think I'm just going to rent a truck with a lift gate... then after I move the SEM, I'll use the truck to move my house stuff into the storage too 15:29 < chris_99> wow is it that heavy 15:30 < nmz787_i> chris_99: there's some specs here http://www.labexchange.com/nc/en/buy-devices/d/serial/13303/ 15:30 < nmz787_i> "100 V, 50/60 Hz, single phase, 2 kVA (basic instrument: 1.2 kVA; attachments: 0.8 kVA). Starting current 60 A (0.2 sec.)" 15:31 < nmz787_i> they said they had it hooked up to a 30A breaker and had no problems, though the image was weird due to the weird beam steering signal 15:31 < chris_99> weird beam steering signal? 15:33 < nmz787_i> the beams electromagnets have a triangle wave form, so they start low, ramp up, drop down and start again 15:34 < nmz787_i> this is supposed to drag the beam from (i.e.) left to right, then start again at the left 15:34 < nmz787_i> but the seller said the waveform didn't look right 15:36 < chris_99> ah, the waveform going to the electromagnets?, they haven't got the video from the SEM working? 15:38 < cluckj> the only question I have off the top of my head is "why?" 15:38 < cluckj> which is kind of the ur-question 15:39 -!- abetusk [~abe@74.118.24.162] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:40 < nmz787_i> chris_99: well the video 'works' as far as what the electron beam strikes shows up on the view-screen.... but the electron beam isn't being rastered/scanned over the sample properly 15:41 < cluckj> I'll come up with something less obtuse when I get a chance 15:41 < nmz787_i> cluckj: why I am reverse engineering it? why i am learning to repair it? why am i wanting to own one/use one? 15:41 < cluckj> yes 15:42 < chris_99> ah gotcha, sounds a fun project 15:42 < nmz787_i> heheh 15:43 < nmz787_i> cluckj: I want to make micro/nano fluidics for lab-on-a-chip purposes... doing biotech/chemistry on a scale approaching single-molecule... or at least a number of molecules that is trackable (versus bulk reactions where you just assume you have billions/trillions of reactions going on) 15:44 < nmz787_i> cluckj: these things are expensive, the service contracts are expensive... if I learn to do this stuff myself I can potentially save myself a bunch of $$$.... on purchasing instruments or getitng them fixed. as a bonus, if I get good at it, I could charge people to pay me to fix their stuff. 15:44 < nmz787_i> also I can document the design openly 15:44 < nmz787_i> so ya know, people in rural africa with a multi-machine-tool can make their own 15:45 < nmz787_i> those tools made into lathes and such out of old engines or something 15:46 < nmz787_i> another benefit is I can teach kids about the 'real world' 15:46 < cluckj> the "real world"? 15:46 < nmz787_i> poke their finger, draw some blood, dry it on a microscope slide, throw it in the light-microscope... then into the SEM 15:46 < nmz787_i> etc 15:47 < nmz787_i> same with plant cells, etc 15:47 < cluckj> so stuff that they can't see without instrument mediation? 15:47 < nmz787_i> if i had a SEM when I was a kid... I imagine I'd be a supergenius by now 15:47 < nmz787_i> yeah 15:47 < cluckj> lol 15:47 < cluckj> why kids in particular? 15:47 < cluckj> or folks in africa? 15:48 < nmz787_i> well the supergenius comment 15:48 < nmz787_i> you can replace africa with me parachuting into the Amazon 15:48 < nmz787_i> with a pocket knife 15:49 < nmz787_i> well, to make it a bit easier it could be a swiss army knife 15:49 < rk[1]> to make it more exciting.. it could be a razor blade 15:49 < cluckj> well yeah you don't want to start building an SEM too much from scratch 15:49 < nmz787_i> one thing i really wonder is about the precision of manufacture the SEM needs/requires... I imagine it's crazy high... but I actually don't know 15:50 < rk[1]> SEM == scanning electron microscope? 15:50 < nmz787_i> cluckj: actually the parachuting into the Amazon dream/idea/goal has been with me since the first year I was in Biotech school 15:50 < nmz787_i> rk[1]: yep 15:50 < rk[1]> ah. 15:50 < cluckj> there's no documentation of the precision, so you need to figure out how to build one to get the tolerances? 15:50 -!- gene_hacker [~chatzilla@128-193-152-176.ptpg.oregonstate.edu] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:51 < nmz787_i> cluckj: well I at least need to take-it-apart 15:51 < nmz787_i> (and put it on takeitapart.com, of course) 15:51 < cluckj> nmz787_i, lol; what happened to motivate you like that? 15:51 < nmz787_i> 3D scan all the parts or something 15:52 < cluckj> I know that particular feeling, and I can trace it back to like...one moment that it came from 15:52 < nmz787_i> uh, money money money money.... moneeeyyyyy 15:52 < nmz787_i> idk, life goal 15:52 < nmz787_i> what else is going on that's cool this century? 15:52 < nmz787_i> ok 15:53 < rk[1]> yeah, i have never used one.. i really want one.. heh. i also belive that i would be a genious if i had one 15:53 < nmz787_i> I was hiking in the himalayas... went from the wet side of Nepal to the dry side (tibetan plateua)... and the ppl were hiking up with cans of kerosene for fuel... the south side had lots of water/rain/moisture, but the north side had none/lack of but lots of solar energy 15:53 < rk[1]> i just got a 10x to 150x digital microscope and i already feel smarter! 15:53 < nmz787_i> so I thought biotech was the best way forward with my goals 15:53 < nmz787_i> lol 15:54 < rk[1]> the best part was, as soon as i got it working on my new machine i thought to myself: "i should test this out on something interesting. so i grabbed a pine needle i recently aqcuired whislt on a walk; sure enough after inspecting it for a minute or so.. i discovered a 0.5 x 1.5mm SCORPION on my desk!! 15:54 < cluckj> I'm not sure I see where that's connected to biotech? 15:55 < cluckj> rk[1], tite. 15:55 < rk[1]> i did some reasearching and seemingly it was a Lacewing larva 15:56 -!- Zinglon [~Zinglon@ip565f6f48.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:58 < nmz787_i> cluckj: engineering of biofuels 15:58 < cluckj> ah 16:02 < cluckj> (sorry, my baby is distracting me!) 16:03 < nmz787_i> it's bored you're not showing it SEM images! 16:03 < cluckj> srsly 16:03 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vmvyzozlffdsqhzf] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 16:06 -!- gene_hacker [~chatzilla@128-193-152-176.ptpg.oregonstate.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:09 -!- jdolan [~jdolan@c-50-188-243-111.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:12 < nmz787_i> "The University of KwaZulu-Natal in Durban, South Africa, is home to an interdisciplinary Nanotechnology Platform consisting of 4 pillars in Nano Energy, Nano Materials, Nano Health and Quantum Physics." 16:12 < nmz787_i> "We are working on materials for energy applications, specifically on the development of an off-grid refrigeration unit for rural areas in Africa" 16:14 -!- jdolan [~jdolan@c-50-188-243-111.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:36 < nmz787_i> .title http://www.gizmag.com/nanoparticles-wounds-heal-faster/36780/ 16:36 < yoleaux> Nanoparticles help wounds to heal 50 percent faster 16:36 < nmz787_i> .title http://www.nature.com/jid/journal/vaop/ncurrent/abs/jid201594a.html 16:36 < yoleaux> Journal of Investigative Dermatology - Abstract of article: Fidgetin-Like 2: A Microtubule-Based Regulator of Wound Healing 16:36 < nmz787_i> paperbot: http://www.nature.com/jid/journal/vaop/ncurrent/pdf/jid201594a.pdf 16:36 < paperbot> http://libgen.info/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1038%2Fjid.2015.94 16:38 < cluckj> okay 16:38 < cluckj> probably back for a bit 16:39 < cluckj> what about lab-on-a-chip is interesting to you? 16:39 -!- nmz787_i1 [~ntmccork@192.55.54.36] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:41 -!- nmz787_i [~ntmccork@192.55.55.37] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:45 < cluckj> probably back for a bit 16:45 < cluckj> what about lab-on-a-chip is interesting to you? 16:47 < cluckj> I was trying to think about the lab-in-a-box the other day and ended up writing about spacetime compression 16:48 < kanzure> such focus 16:48 < cluckj> yep 16:49 < kanzure> typical reasons- cheapness, repeatability, lower reagent volume, less mass, faster hardware iterations (but only in some cases), single cell isolation and related methods, etc. 16:50 < cluckj> also yep 16:51 < cluckj> what I went for was portability 16:51 < cluckj> if you have a tiny lab, instead of having to go out into the "real world" to get samples to bring back to the lab, you can bring the lab with you 16:54 < nmz787_i1> yeah 16:55 < cluckj> without going into too much of my discipline's theoretical framing, that portability lets a researcher do a different kind of work 16:55 < nmz787_i1> increased control of the chemistry and reduction in reagent costs are the main drivers for me I guess 16:55 < kanzure> most microfluidic devices are not portable 16:55 < nmz787_i1> yeah not today 16:55 < nmz787_i1> there have been a few field-ready devices 16:55 < nmz787_i1> but they're the minority of publications 16:56 < nmz787_i1> or the commerical items that have been/are produced are parts of overall much larger systems 16:56 < nmz787_i1> i.e. the microfludic is tiny, but it requires a big microscope with a big light source and Desktop computer with CRT monitor (non optional) 16:57 < nmz787_i1> common portable microfluidics would be like... pregnancy tests I guess 16:57 < nmz787_i1> but they're pretty minimal as far as microfluidic tech goes 16:57 < nmz787_i1> bbl 16:57 -!- nmz787_i1 [~ntmccork@192.55.54.36] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:57 < cluckj> my blood glucose meter too, I imagine 17:01 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 17:26 -!- night is now known as night|pub 17:28 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ggmasvdpxfmwnlhj] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:22 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:49 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 18:49 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:14 -!- HEx1 [~HEx@hexwab.plus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:14 -!- HEx1 [~HEx@hexwab.plus.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:53 -!- delinquentme [~textual@74.61.157.78] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:54 -!- delinquentme [~textual@74.61.157.78] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 19:55 -!- delinquentme [~textual@74.61.157.78] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:55 -!- delinquentme [~textual@74.61.157.78] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 19:56 -!- delinquentme [~textual@74.61.157.78] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:56 -!- delinquentme [~textual@74.61.157.78] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 20:03 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ggmasvdpxfmwnlhj] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 20:16 -!- CaptHindsight [~2020@unaffiliated/capthindsight] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:19 < nmz787> aww I was just thinking of CaptHindsight 20:30 < kanzure> use .to 20:34 -!- CaptHindsight [~2020@unaffiliated/capthindsight] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:50 < nmz787> hi CaptHindsight 20:51 < CaptHindsight> howdy 20:52 < nmz787> did you say you would get back to me about something a few days ago?? 20:52 < nmz787> oh, about deposition with ebeam 20:52 < nmz787> (or for that matter, enhanced milling even) 20:53 < nmz787> I imagine you might be able to do directed electrochemistry or something 20:54 -!- Souljack [souljack@shell.xshellz.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:54 -!- Souljack [souljack@shell.xshellz.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:55 < CaptHindsight> I was thinking about a wider rage of materials 20:55 < CaptHindsight> then I remembered that the main interest here are materials for biomed 20:56 < CaptHindsight> my interests are wider, so nevermind :) 20:56 < nmz787> ah, well, I'm not averse to learning more 20:57 < nmz787> nanobots are cool 20:57 < nmz787> they can be coated for biomed apps ;) 20:57 < nmz787> or for some other things, space or oil drilling or something 20:58 < nmz787> fixing my engine by adding nanobot oil 21:00 -!- Madplatypus [uid19957@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-svsdfnscmsyirtht] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:00 < kanzure> catern: welp i'm muted in lesswrong 21:01 < Madplatypus> Me too! 21:01 < Madplatypus> Frankly, Gwern and Burninate are probably going to sort this out the way it's going. 21:06 < Madplatypus> >14) Buy a lobbyist to get the National Fab Lab Network Act of 2010 to go through the House of Representatives, and other motions that are in direct support of open source hardware. The Fab Lab Network Act specifically calls for the creation of 1 fablab or hackerspace per 700,000 U.S. citizens, so approximately 407 community hackerspaces by 2015. $150,000?? 21:06 < Madplatypus> This is entirely an achievable goal. 21:06 < kanzure> sure 21:06 < kanzure> yes, most of our goals are achievable 21:07 < Madplatypus> Well, I mean, more specifically, something I can start working on. 21:07 < Madplatypus> I know people who know people. 21:07 < Madplatypus> And you'd be surprised how far you can take that sort of chain 21:09 < nmz787> $3k isn't much to /start/ a hackerspace 21:09 < nmz787> you'd want at least 12 months of rent and utilities 21:12 < CaptHindsight> China announced a similar plan a few years ago. A hackerspace in every larger town ~200 21:14 < CaptHindsight> the budget was similar ~$200k for each 21:15 < kanzure> Madplatypus: there's a bunch of other projects floating around in here. if there's certain things that you are good at, we can tell you more specific projects. 21:17 < CaptHindsight> kanzure: whats available? funding, space, equipment, good advice? 21:17 < kanzure> advice, funding, equipment, space, in that order 21:17 < kanzure> space is very hard to do over the internet 21:18 < kanzure> none of you jerks are in the same spot 21:19 -!- augur [~augur@c-71-57-177-235.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 21:20 < CaptHindsight> http://www.caspa.com/node/5742 this was an adventure to apply for 21:21 < Madplatypus> Unfortunately I'm not much for programming as of yet kanzure. Learning, but. 21:21 -!- delinquentme [~delinquen@74.61.157.78] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:21 < kanzure> .title 21:22 < yoleaux> Chinese American Semiconductor Professional Association 21:23 < CaptHindsight> anyone in the channel in China? 21:23 < Madplatypus> There'll be something political/policy/orgnizational for me to do within this community sooner or later, though 21:23 < kanzure> i think the toothpaste person or ParahSailin is in china 21:24 < kanzure> also there's #szdiy 21:24 -!- sheena [~home@S0106c8be196316d1.ok.shawcable.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:24 < kanzure> but they speak some alien language 21:25 < CaptHindsight> there is a bunch of low cost brand new factory space in Nanjing as well 21:25 < CaptHindsight> 10k sq ft is maybe $500 usd/mo 21:25 < nmz787> oh $150k for each hackerspace, or $150k for total budget? 21:26 < kanzure> for the person 21:26 < kanzure> this was a project that someone told me about 21:26 < kanzure> probably someone from the fablab group? 21:26 < kanzure> i dunno 21:27 < kanzure> that was 2010 though. that's long gone. 21:27 < CaptHindsight> must be $60M total, not 400 spaces splitting $150k 21:27 < nmz787> cause $150k / 407 potential hackerspaces ~~ $3k each 21:27 < CaptHindsight> then again that America Makes group in Ohio is a joke 21:28 < kanzure> the money was something about hiring a specific lobbyist 21:28 < kanzure> i should have written down more details 21:30 < CaptHindsight> what do you want built? have a wish list? 21:30 < nmz787> efficient DNA synthesizer has been my goal for a while... there's a lot of other things that get built along with that effort 21:30 < kanzure> so many things 21:31 < CaptHindsight> yeah the DNA synthesizer is on my list again, I got tired of waiting 21:31 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/cgit/skdb/plain/doc/BOMs/diybio-equipment.yaml 21:31 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/cgit/skdb/plain/doc/BOMs/analytical-instrumentation 21:32 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/cgit/skdb/plain/doc/BOMs/perfusion-equipment.yaml 21:32 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/cgit/skdb/plain/doc/BOMs/comparison/fablab.yaml 21:32 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/cgit/skdb/plain/doc/BOMs/comparison/techshop.yaml 21:33 < CaptHindsight> https://nanoporetech.com/technology/the-minion-device-a-miniaturised-sensing-system/the-minion-device-a-miniaturised-sensing-system I've been wondering why their system has been so inaccurate 21:33 < kanzure> low mass cnc, space habitats, organ perfusion chambers, pick your poison 21:33 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/nucleic/fbi-diybio-dna-v1.pdf 21:35 < CaptHindsight> making much of this is not really hard, it's dealing with the patents in the west 21:36 < CaptHindsight> in a few years China and Mexico might have better tech than whats in the USA 21:36 < CaptHindsight> just due to patents 21:38 < kanzure> they have their own patent systems 21:38 < CaptHindsight> kanzure: please define "low mass cnc" 21:38 < kanzure> stewart platform 21:38 < kanzure> did you know that the soviet union had patents 21:39 < catern> i bet i know what this channel will say 21:39 < catern> but 21:40 < catern> if was to take a single class in a "science", what would be the science to pick to maximize usefulness? 21:41 < CaptHindsight> 6th grade general science with a good teacher 21:41 < kanzure> catern: "How to make almost anything" at mit 21:41 < catern> well sadly 21:41 < catern> i'm not at MIT 21:42 < kanzure> don't let that stop you 21:42 < catern> (fug) 21:42 < kanzure> catern: then, a machine shop class of some kind 21:43 < CaptHindsight> never let school stop you from learning 21:43 < catern> kanzure: OK 21:43 < catern> that's a good point 21:43 < catern> I'll do that 21:44 < kanzure> i wonder if mit has online videos of "How to make almost anything" 21:44 < kanzure> i remember fenn either found mit machine shop videos or they were nist educational machine shop videos 21:45 -!- JayDugger [~jwdugger@108.19.186.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:46 < catern> well, I'll do that if I can find a machine shop class 21:49 < nmz787> catern: physics probably... or some lab-mostly class in biotech or semiconductors 21:49 < catern> what physics tho 21:50 < nmz787> community colleges are the best value 21:50 < catern> and can't I just read the feynman lectures 21:50 < kanzure> and there's always software stuff 21:50 < kanzure> feynman lectures don't make you useful :P 21:50 < nmz787> if you can only take one class, then it will have to be the one you can get into (either the lowest in the college... or the one you can convince them you're OK to let in to) 21:51 < nmz787> catern: lab classes are super cheap per hour of experience 21:51 < nmz787> anything with instrumentation that interests your 21:51 < nmz787> you 21:51 < catern> just suggest whatever, I can take more than one in this thought experiment if you think there would be prerequisites 21:52 < nmz787> the only semiconductor class I took was, umm, IC Technology... I made transistors 21:53 < nmz787> we started with a wafer, spin coated it, exposed it with a photolithography mask, etched it, bombarded/implanted it with ions selected with a mass spectrometer, added some oxide, blah blah, baked for 1.5 hours until it smelled nice, etc... then tested with a microscope and hairlike probe things 21:55 < nmz787> 'genetic engineering' or 'molecular biology' or 'bioseparatations' or 'analytical chemistry'... lots and lots 21:55 < nmz787> there are years worth of great lab classes 21:55 < nmz787> including the computer sciences 21:55 < nmz787> if it wasn't for the damn strict timelines, I'd probably enjoy school a lot more than I do 21:56 < catern> ok so 21:56 < catern> basically 21:56 < nmz787> take all the classes 21:56 < nmz787> basically 21:56 < catern> "whatever you pick, pick a lab class" 21:56 < nmz787> as a better rule, yes 21:56 < catern> sound advice 21:56 < nmz787> if you want your money's worth, if you don't care about a degree 22:04 < kanzure> don't pick boring lab classes 22:05 < kanzure> learning to setup a bunsen burner is bullshit, you can watch a youtube video for that 22:05 < catern> true, true 22:20 < nmz787> i 22:20 < nmz787> i'm not sure any lab class is just about that sort of thing, unless it's bio or chem 101 22:21 < nmz787> and even then it would be like a 5 minute thing at most 22:23 < kanzure> the vast majority of all my lab hours were spent doing really boring stuff 22:24 < kanzure> but that's mostly because from grade 6 through 12 nobody is capable of memory, so they just have you do the same stuff over and over. and then college assumes the same (what i waste of my time). 22:26 < kanzure> s/i waste/a waste 22:26 < nmz787> the grade i remember least is grade 2, 4, 5 22:26 < nmz787> grades 22:27 < nmz787> I guess it's possible that some schools really suck 22:27 < kanzure> second grade was spent learning german, spanish, knitting, gardening, and candlewaxmaking 22:27 < nmz787> but I can say that most of the lab classes I chose were cool 22:28 < nmz787> i did none of those things in 2nd grade 22:28 < nmz787> I remember the music teacher failing me and my dad (a musician) having to come in to defend me 22:29 < CaptHindsight> kanzure: what country were you in at the time? 22:30 < nmz787> TX 22:31 < nmz787> ? 22:31 < kanzure> i was in texas (usa) 22:32 < nmz787> everything is bigger in texas, even education 22:33 < kanzure> well second grade was a private school 22:33 < kanzure> http://web.archive.org/web/20060206092258/http://www.austinwaldorf.org/brochure/philosophy2.htm 22:34 < CaptHindsight> he I think I failed science in 7th grade even though I won the city science fair that year 22:53 < nickjohnson> nmz787_i: it's available for preorder :) 23:52 < Taek> don't pick boring lab classes <---- I reiterate this point. Talk to seniors/grads and ask what classes they would take 23:58 < kanzure> hello Taek 23:59 < Taek> hello --- Log closed Sat Apr 18 00:00:32 2015