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04:33 < kanzure> beep
04:47 < kanzure> "FEBRUARY 2015 First published report of an unexpected side effect of FMT - a previously slim woman become obese after the treatment." haha
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06:53 < archels> I like it when people use lines of code as a measure of complexity
06:54 < archels> just asked my prof if he had some reference implementation. "I didn't write code ( I think it will take 10 lines to do most of it)"
06:55 < archels> maybe that's the trick to writing an AGI. Just make sure it squeezes into 10 lines of code
07:15 < wrldpc1> I’ll be in Frisco next month 22-26 any cool science/technology-related things worth doing?  I’m planning on the Computer Museum?  ::shrug:: never really been to San Fran before.
07:17 < thundara> Night Life http://www.calacademy.org/nightlife/ ?
07:17 < thundara> wrldpc1: ^^
07:17 < fenn> the computer history museum is not as good as it could be, you can't interact with any of the old computers at all, they just sit there dead
07:18 < wrldpc1> ありがとうございます。
07:18 < wrldpc1> I was afraid of that, fenn.
07:20 < fenn> i'd suggest visiting a hackerspace or two
07:21 < fenn> noisebridge, techshop, hacker dojo
07:22 < fenn> the exploratorium is fun
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07:25 < fenn> there is a WW2 submarine parked near fisherman's wharf that i think you can tour
07:26 < fenn> nasa moffett field probably has some tours
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07:30 < fenn> there are always scientific seminars ongoing at UCSF/Stanford/UC Berkeley but it's hard to predict when and where and what they will be about
07:30 < eudoxia> isn't the nasa place with the big wind tunnel in oakland
07:30 < fenn> no
07:31 < fenn> it's in mountain view
07:31 < eudoxia> well san fran/oakland/berkeley/mountain view
07:31 < eudoxia> that place yeah
07:32 < fenn> it's like a 45 minute drive from san francisco proper
07:33 < fenn> pretty close to the computer history museum actually
07:42 < CaptHindsight> fenn: how are the hackerspaces in and around SF? The ones I've visited in the midwest and east coast are nothing I'd recommend to anyone
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07:45 < delinquentme> kanzure, how do : long term thinking.
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07:50 < wrldpc1> Tight!  Thanks, Fenn!  I’ll have transportation (rental car) so sizeable distances are doable.
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07:50 < wrldpc1> From what I know of Noisebridge it should be worth a visit.
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10:02 < kanzure> you guys are boring
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10:11 < eudoxia> not really
10:14 < chris_99> Anyone ever seen a way to use separate cookie caches for each browser tab, per chance
10:27 < CaptHindsight> any cloak and dagger stories on the passing of Austen Heinz?
10:27 < kanzure> someone spilled the beans in here the other day, unfortunately
10:27 < kanzure> i believe everyone was trying to keep his passing more private or secretive
10:33 < heath> why?
10:34 < heath> i think he was a viatal part of the community
10:41 < kanzure> i mean his family was trying to keep the details not public
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11:00 < CaptHindsight> people are going to wonder when someone is only 31
11:22 < kanzure> sure
11:22 < kanzure> i happen to agree here
11:28 < kanzure> .title https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9720033
11:28 < yoleaux> SpaceX Hyperloop Pod Competition | Hacker News
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11:39 < maaku> fenn: the WW2 submarine is fun. the WW2 merchant ship next to it is also a good tour. my brother volunteers on it
11:40 < maaku> CaptHindsight kanzure : it is sad and alarming that a higher than expected number of transhumanists have resorted to suicide
11:43 < kanzure> that might just be a bias regarding reports
11:44 < kanzure> how about all the ones that died from not being signed up for cryonics
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11:47 < Drethelin> they're probably dea either way
11:48 < Drethelin> suicidal impulses are a really weird thing
11:48 < Drethelin> almost like having a cartesian lying demon living in your head
11:49 < kanzure> Drethelin: i liked you better when you were all downcased
11:51 < zooko> Related: http://zooko-on-aaronsw.blogspot.com/
11:54 < kanzure> bill gates should really just buy elsevier's publishing division
11:55 < kanzure> the largest academic publishing entity in the world should not be some weapons manufacturer
12:00 < Drethelin> there's a lot of stuff I'd like bill gates to do and I don't think elsevier is at the top of the list
12:01 < kanzure> where on the list would it be then?
12:03 < eudoxia> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8X69_42Mj-g
12:03 < eudoxia> .title
12:03 < yoleaux> Clasp: Common Lisp using LLVM and C++ for Molecular Metaprogramming - YouTube
12:03 < eudoxia> the intersection of "the set of people into common lisp" and "the set of people interested in molecular manufacturing" is larger than you'd expect for some curious reason
12:04 < kanzure> probably some fascination with primitives and atoms
12:04 < eudoxia> hahaha atoms that's gold
12:05 < eudoxia> this slide lol https://youtu.be/8X69_42Mj-g?t=1144
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13:34 < CaptHindsight> http://www.orc.soton.ac.uk/lift.html  is Cambrian Genomics' using this to only transfer "verified good" DNA bead onto the next sequence?
13:35 < kanzure> they are sequencing their beads
13:36 < kanzure> beads are 10 micron diameter bead spheres, pushed around by death ray laser beams
13:36 < CaptHindsight> yeah , ok
13:36 < CaptHindsight> that big
13:37 < CaptHindsight> I thought it was smaller beads
13:38 < CaptHindsight> heh "Laser pulse catapulting"
13:39 < kanzure> uh it might be smaller than 10 micron, but definitely not much bigger
13:48 < CaptHindsight> I'm still catching up on 10-20 years of DNA tech
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13:51 < CaptHindsight> much of what I see reminds me of what you see when physicists build electronic devices
13:51 < kanzure> did you see the teardown of the abi synthesizer
13:52 < kanzure> https://www.takeitapart.com/guide/94
13:52 < CaptHindsight> they all look like props from 50-70's scifi
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13:54 < CaptHindsight> haven't seen that one but the date codes on the parts are mostly 1988 and 1989
13:55 < CaptHindsight> I have to catch up on all the biology vernacular as well
13:57 < CaptHindsight> kanzure: is that synthesizer used to just make short strands?
13:58 < CaptHindsight> controlling all the vales is a no brainer
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14:22 < archels> ack, I thought that this first episode of Humans looked familiar. It's just a cheap copy of the Swedish Real Humans
14:23 < kanzure> CaptHindsight: 50-80 bp strands
14:23 < kanzure> CaptHindsight: making a cheapo version of this equipment would be a big win
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14:39 < archels> .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OodHtJ1saY
14:39 < yoleaux> TED-RNN - Machine generated TED-Talks - YouTube
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15:02 < kanzure> .sbpirl
15:02 < kanzure> grr
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15:03 < signo5> hi
15:03 < kanzure> greetings
15:05 < signo5> i had a couple questions re: nootropics, but the channel for that seems pretty dead.  would this be an appropriate place to ask them?
15:05 < kanzure> yep
15:06 < signo5> cool
15:07 < signo5> last night i was reading through the nootropics subreddit wiki and noticed that several items with notes saying that they can actually impair rather than improve function in individuals who are already high-performing
15:08 < signo5> i was wondering if anyone knew of a list of items that show evidence of this effect, or an easy method of checking specific nootropics
15:11 < signo5> also i was going to ask if anyone had recommendations for nootropics for improving processing speed or executive function.  my searches have turned up very little
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15:14 < archels> signo5: it's quite well known, e.g. in dopamine levels
15:15 < archels> #reddit-nootropics and ##nutrition are both active, by the way
15:15 < archels> you could look into dopaminergics, cholinergics for the functions you mentioned
15:17 < signo5> archels, was your first message re: my 1st or 2nd question?
15:18 < signo5> maybe i just hit #reddit-nootropics at off times then, i've seen very little activity while in there
15:18 < kanzure> another good resource is to pester gwern
15:18 < kanzure> unfortunately gwern hates this irc channel
15:21 < archels> isn't gwern lw crowd
15:21 < archels> signo5: chronologically
15:23 < signo5> reading up on on dopaminergics and cholinergics now
15:24 < signo5> archels, could you elaborate a bit on the first answer?  or possibly suggest some reading/search terms?
15:25 < archels> see e.g. http://static1.squarespace.com/static/52272295e4b03da9a53f8c7f/t/54624a07e4b08c4a3ae778ce/1415727623991/CoolsDEsposito_BiolPsychiat_2011.pdf
15:26 < signo5> i just recently stopped taking adderall after 6-7 years because it felt like it was doing more harm than good
15:27 < archels> you should definitely explore a bit
15:27 < signo5> archels, thanks, this looks like it's exactly what i wanted
15:27 < signo5> much appreciated :)
15:27 < archels> no prob
15:28 < archels> share your insights
15:32 < kanzure> .title http://extropians.weidai.com/extropians.3Q97/4356.html
15:32 < yoleaux> extropians: tunneling through the Singularity
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18:02 < justanotherusr> Interesting "Additionally, as you increase the number of lines of code in a project, the more time you need to spend typing out those lines. "
18:04 < kanzure> justanotherusr: indeed
18:04 < kanzure> justanotherusr: what's up
18:04 < justanotherusr> just browsing diyhpl.us
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18:11 < justanotherusr> Projects
18:11 < justanotherusr> 12) x='x=%s;x%%repr(x)';x%repr(x)
18:12 < kanzure> failed injection attempt
18:12 < kanzure> figured i'd leave it
18:15 < justanotherusr> I've noticed you've slowly been recruiting Bitcoin wizards to the channel
18:15 < kanzure> that's sort of happened on its own :-)
18:15 < kanzure> all the wizards think that things like dying is not always a good idea
18:15 < kanzure> or a good plan
18:16 < Drethelin> once you're rich, whether in bitcoins or USD, you start to care more about having a long life
18:18 < justanotherusr> kanzure: what do you think about the FDA being a label enforcement agency?
18:20 < justanotherusr> Not informing about drugs may lead to another "non addictive heroin", but anything above labeling leads to a beurocratic process preventing people from getting medical care
18:21 < kanzure> Drethelin: nonsense
18:21 < kanzure> justanotherusr: i think trademarks are already enforced
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18:22 < ryankarason> also.. most labels aren't even compostable:/
18:22 < ryankarason> i need it very annoying having labels on my fruits
18:23 < justanotherusr> I mean warning labels
18:24 < ryankarason> its forcing labels on things all the same
18:24 < ryankarason> governments trying to force labeling of seeds even in person to person seed exchanging organizations
18:25 < Drethelin> kanzure: how is it nonsense?
18:25 < ryankarason> it is nonsensicle in my mind.. you should research what you put in your body..
18:25 < ryankarason> Erowid's vault has plenty of research.. you shouldn't just look at a warning label and go by that anyway..
18:30 < justanotherusr> yeah, people are dumb though. I guess erowid didn't exist when heroin was the "non addictive opium alternative"
18:31 < ryankarason> aye.. but the more you "protect" dumb people.. the more you are promoting ignorance (imo)
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18:43 < Drethelin> you don't need dumbness or "protection" to value good labeling
18:44 < Drethelin> reliable labels are way more efficient than everyone doing their own research
18:44 < Drethelin> People who are "smart" enough to check erowid before taking something would still benefit if the labels were more useful
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19:20 < kanzure> Drethelin: i think even people with zero money can understand the importance of avoiding death
19:20 < kanzure> Drethelin: money does not modulate your understanding of death
19:22 < jrayhawk> i dunno, i think there's some legitimacy to the idea that cryonics are pretty high up on maslow's hierarchy
19:23 < Drethelin> Kanzure: this is false
19:24 < Drethelin> people who have less resources statistically act in riskier ways
19:24 < Drethelin> implicitly valuing their lives less
19:24 < kanzure> jrayhawk: didn't you argue against that
19:24 < jrayhawk> probably
19:24 < jrayhawk> i am a contrarian asshole
19:24 < kanzure> fucker
19:24 < jrayhawk> hee
19:24 < kanzure> Drethelin: so you specifically think that death does not impact the poor...?
19:25 < kanzure> why would the number of monies in your pocket modulate how much you die when you die? wtf
19:25 < kanzure> this is infuriating
19:26 < Drethelin> kanzure: you're thinking in a black and white way rather than a probablistic way
19:27 < kanzure> why would i care how much they value their lives?
19:27 < kanzure> why would i expect them to have accurate valuations
19:27 < kanzure> or anyone for that matter
19:27 < Drethelin> you seem to care enough to call nonsense about me making a statement about how people value their lives
19:28 < jrayhawk> kanzure: stress drops IQ
19:29 < jrayhawk> while rich people generally work up to their tolerable level of stress, poor people have no choice but to exceed it
19:29 < jrayhawk> or, rather, rich people are able to work with the homeostatic tension between stress and productivity
19:30 < kanzure> i don't understand any of your arguments
19:30 < jrayhawk> poor people are at vastly reduced volition, there
19:30 < kanzure> let me simplify this for you
19:30 < kanzure> death is bad
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19:30 < jrayhawk> but contemplating choices in ways to cheat death is not free
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19:31 < Drethelin> it takes a certain kind of stupid genius to reason about human decisionmaking from first principles
19:31 < kanzure> i never claimed any sense of genius, argh
19:31 < kanzure> this is even more infuriating
19:31 < Drethelin> I never said you did
19:31 < kanzure> alright
19:31 < Drethelin> I am attributing to you of my own will
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19:47 < kanzure> also, why would someone have to value their own life in any particular way in order to think that death is dumnb
19:47 < kanzure> *dumb
19:49 < Drethelin> so, plenty of people don't want die, some do, but there is a clear variation in how much effort people are willing to put into not dying
19:50 < Drethelin> a lot of this is related to whether people think they're going to die anyway, whether they think they can or have achieved something with their lives, whether they feel safe/happy etc.
19:53 < Drethelin> if you expect the rest of your life to be miserable, you don't neccesarily want more of it
19:54 < Drethelin> so the newly rich went from expecting their continued life to be one way, to expecting it to be way better
19:54 < Drethelin> thus incentivizing them to put more energy into finding ways to prolong that life
19:54 < kanzure> okay, well you don't have to want a good life for yourself to recognize that death is dumb
19:54 < kanzure> your own life can be shit, who cares?
19:56 < Drethelin> most people don't dedicated their lives to helping everyone else
19:56 < Drethelin> so clearly they care
19:56 < kanzure> you don't have to "dedicate a life" to know that death is dumb
19:58 < Drethelin> ok but
19:58 < Drethelin> so what?
19:58 < Drethelin> so you recognize death is dumb
19:59 < Drethelin> what do you do next?
19:59 < Drethelin> NOTHING
19:59 < Drethelin> then it might as well have not been recognized
19:59 < Drethelin> actually nevermind
19:59 < Drethelin> this conversation sucks
20:00 < jrayhawk> this is a true fact
20:00 < kanzure> have you read up on my cryonics plans
20:00 < kanzure> or are you legitimely interested in death
20:00 < kanzure> *legitmately
20:05 < kanzure> even if i knew with absoulte certainty that everyone i have ever known is going to die, i still do not think this should modulate whether i think this is good, or whether i think others should find it good or whether i should think others accept it or don't even think about it; i wouldn't want to make sweeping statements like that at all.
20:08 < kanzure> i'm also amused by your pessimism. isn't the phrase around here "immortality or bust" or something?
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20:35 < kanzure> you guys are boring
20:35 < Adlai> no u
20:36 < Adlai> what if rumination offers no significant fitness increase and depression is only commonplace due to the suicide taboo?
20:36 < Adlai> this in response to all the evolutionary biologists puzzled over statistics
20:37 < Drethelin> implying a lot of depressed people just killed themselves right away before catholicism came around?
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20:38 < Adlai> eh, i'd guess the suicide taboo has existed about as long as language and tribalism
20:38 < Drethelin> hmm
20:38 < Adlai> but this is like how we'll never out-evolve lactose intolerance or diabetes
20:39 < Drethelin> are walkabouts a sort of
20:39 < Drethelin> suicide gamble?
20:39 < Adlai> walkabouts?+
20:39 < maaku> Drethelin: bah most bitcoin wizards are not rich
20:39 < Adlai> .wp walkabout
20:39 < Drethelin> anyway considering there's a lot of variance in suicidality between races I imagine there has to be something genetic rather than cultural there
20:39 < Adlai> hmm
20:39 < Drethelin> Walkabouts are an australian aboriginal ritual thing
20:40 < Drethelin> basically you go into the outback all alone and try to survive
20:40 < maaku> for me i discovered bitcoin while looking for ways to fund transhumanist projects, so the causality was definately the other way around
20:40 < Adlai> maaku: wizards maybe not, but you also have those pesky alchemists
20:41 < maaku> I am totally a bitcoin alchemist
20:41 < maaku> i will transumte your testnet bitcoins into alpha coins
20:41  * maaku joins #bitcoin-alchemists
20:41  * Adlai was thinking of "lead to gold" as "altcoin pumpndump to bitcoin profit", but elements alpha is kinda alchemical too
20:41 < Drethelin> the eternaal quest to turn base doge into Bitcoins
20:42 < Adlai> oh wait have we finished with #bitcoin-blocksize yet?
20:42 < Adlai> have we reached consensus!?
20:42  * Adlai wants 1MiB blocks
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20:45 < maaku> oh hell no. but we won't do that here
20:46 < Adlai> bitcoin itself is a transhumanist project
20:47 < Drethelin> currency is transhumanist
20:48 < Adlai> currency itself is subhumanist
20:48 < Drethelin> your mom is currency
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20:49 < Adlai> you have currency-like phenomena below the human level
20:50 < Adlai> molecules attaining usefulness by transferring time-delayed usefulness rather than doing anything themselves
20:50 < Drethelin> brb shorting ATP vs USD
20:51 < Adlai> the incredible thing about ATP is its high velocity and low market cap
20:51 < Adlai> you just don't see this in human currencies
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20:52 < Adlai> maaku: how many VC dollars would you say have been unproductively destroyed by #bitcoin-blocksize developer-attention-DDoS
20:56 < maaku> Adlai: by rough order of magnitude calculation around $400k minimum (not bsc but whole industry)
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20:57 < maaku> well some of that is not VC money
20:57 < maaku> ugh makes me sick to think of that
20:59  * Adlai feels that "bullshit is an order of magnitude easier to generate than refute" is an underestimate
21:01 < Adlai> which is quite a transhumanist lament. the discrepancy only seems to worsen as the humans aim higher
21:02 < Drethelin> I think the bigger problem is you can only refute it piecemeal even if it's not hard
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21:02 < Drethelin> a lie can run around the world before the truth has got its boots on
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--- Log closed Tue Jun 16 00:00:43 2015