--- Log opened Wed Jul 22 00:00:18 2015 00:01 -!- proofoflogic [uid65184@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ciwyoaveruobahed] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:08 -!- FourFire [~FourFire@185.7.192.138] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:14 -!- redlegion [~x@unaffiliated/redlegion] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:14 -!- p4nd4 [~quassel@104.219.54.200] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 00:14 -!- p4nd4 [~quassel@104.219.54.200] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:16 -!- redlegion [~x@unaffiliated/redlegion] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:47 -!- redlegion [~x@unaffiliated/redlegion] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:48 -!- p4nd4 [~quassel@104.219.54.200] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 00:49 -!- p4nd4 [~quassel@104.219.54.200] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:50 -!- redlegion [~x@unaffiliated/redlegion] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:55 < EnLilaSko> xrr: Google something like "mmol/l to mg/l" 01:38 < xrr> EnLilaSko, yeah, thanks. I think I understand the conversion via molar mass. But I'm not sure what mass has been used to calculate the mg/l. Just the atom, or some larger molecule? 01:38 < xrr> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reference_ranges_for_blood_tests apparently uses just atomic masses. 140 mg / 3.5 mmol = 40 g/mol ~= 39 for potassium atom. But 1750 mg / 3.5 mmol = 500 g/mol is just weird. Well anyways, I don't really care what mass is used, so I could just use 500 g/mol for conversion, but the problem is that 1850/5 = 370 g/mol, which is way different. Yeah, I don't know. Maybe the lab just changed the reference ranges. I'll try to 01:38 < xrr> figure this out. 01:43 -!- nsh [~lol@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Excess Flood] 01:44 -!- nsh [~lol@wikipedia/nsh] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:44 -!- nsh [~lol@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 01:44 -!- nsh [~lol@wikipedia/nsh] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:44 -!- nsh [~lol@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 01:45 -!- nsh [~lol@wikipedia/nsh] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:01 < tek_wizzard> xrr: why don't you call the lab and ask them 02:08 < xrr> tek_wizzard, I probably should. Thanks. 02:27 -!- proofoflogic [uid65184@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ciwyoaveruobahed] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 02:36 -!- nsh [~lol@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Excess Flood] 02:37 -!- nsh [~lol@wikipedia/nsh] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:37 -!- nsh [~lol@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 02:37 -!- nsh [~lol@wikipedia/nsh] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:39 -!- nsh [~lol@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Excess Flood] 02:39 -!- nsh [~lol@wikipedia/nsh] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:39 -!- nsh [~lol@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Excess Flood] 02:40 -!- nsh [~lol@wikipedia/nsh] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:40 -!- nsh [~lol@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Excess Flood] 02:40 -!- nsh [~lol@wikipedia/nsh] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:41 -!- nsh [~lol@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Client Quit] 02:48 -!- FourFire [~FourFire@185.7.192.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:04 -!- tek_wizzard [~tek_wizza@99-91-0-194.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:08 -!- nsh- [~lol@wikipedia/nsh] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:25 < jrayhawk> xrr: Lab reference ranges are not universally defined; typically it's just some percentile of whomever goes through that particular lab. 03:26 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sbfsqvrgcoueskvt] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:26 < jrayhawk> This is one of the hobby horses of the Functional Medicine folks. 03:27 < jrayhawk> Getting sane standards into textbooks. 03:27 < jrayhawk> And on charts. 03:28 < jrayhawk> If you want more resources on that, let me know. 03:41 -!- nsh- is now known as nsh 04:10 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:19 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:36 -!- Madplatypus [uid19957@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uzqbrrtaknokhrqu] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 04:44 < abetusk> http://openplant.org/event-directory/open-technology-week/ 04:49 -!- FourFire [~FourFire@185.7.192.138] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:03 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:31 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r167-57-25-202.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:44 < mgin> yo 05:44 < kanzure> yes? 05:45 < mgin> i'm interested in talking with people who seriously want to achieve immortality 05:48 < kanzure> you already said that. if you really wanted that, you would know that serious people are capable of remembering your shit. 05:49 < mgin> well i'm not talking about you 05:49 < kanzure> ah because...? 05:50 < mgin> i haven't even been able to get a straight answer out of you whether you're interested in such a thing, and i don't really want to keep trying 05:50 < kanzure> have you read any of the links i keep giving you? 05:53 < kanzure> also you should read all of this- http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/longevity/ 05:54 -!- Acty [uid89656@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sevyutpnkwoctbpo] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:57 < mgin> i'm mainly interested in talking to people who are serious about achieving immortality right now, so you don't have to keep sending me links 05:57 < kanzure> justanotheruser: ah i didn't know they had released their source code, https://github.com/strib/scigen 05:58 < kanzure> mgin: fuck talking, start figuring it out- you're going to have to read stuff that's not in an irc channel 05:58 < mgin> i don't really appreciate that 06:00 < kanzure> acquiring skills and knowledge is critical to not dying 06:02 < Betawolf> I don't know what you expect to achieve in a conversation with such a person that would be different from reading a resource such as what kanzure just provided. 'Sure, I'll add you to a list for when I've figured it out'? 06:03 < mgin> i'll ask again later 06:03 < kanzure> do you disagree with this approach to not dying? 06:04 < mgin> are you talking to me? 06:04 < kanzure> yes 06:04 < mgin> i don't know what you're referring to 06:05 < kanzure> ..... 06:05 < kanzure> 06:00 < kanzure> acquiring skills and knowledge is critical to not dying 06:06 < mgin> are you seriously telling me that you're "approach" to not dying is to "acquire skills and knowledge", and asking me if i think that's a good "approach"? 06:06 < kanzure> yes; because you've ignored all of the resources i keep telling you to read. 06:07 < kanzure> so from this data it seems that you disagree 06:08 < mgin> your* 06:08 < mgin> I guess I can infer that you are trying to live forever, at least in your own mind 06:08 < mgin> I'm not really interested in talking to you though 06:09 < Betawolf> I see. You're interested in _talking_ to someone who wants to achieve immortality. For an abstract debate of some kind. 06:10 < mgin> is this place infested with morons? jesus christ 06:10 < ebowden_> lol 06:10 < mgin> I guess in a chat this big it's inevitable 06:11 < ebowden_> Earlier he was discussing new microfluidic techniques for oglionucleotide synthesis. 06:11 < ebowden_> *techniques in microfluidics for 06:12 < ebowden_> He is no fool, though appears to be good at suffering them. 06:13 < mgin> well mentally ill people can be knowledgeable too 06:14 < ebowden_> I find him unpleasant, but how on earth do you know he's mentally ill? 06:14 < ebowden_> And you were talking about morons. 06:14 < mgin> whatever the problem is 06:14 < mgin> tired of people with problems 06:15 < ebowden_> Everyone has problems. 06:15 < mgin> not really. 06:16 < ebowden_> Who has no problems whatever? 06:16 < mgin> that's a pretty cynical statement 06:17 < ebowden_> Not really... 06:17 < ebowden_> http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/problem 06:17 < mgin> look people have goals, they have work, etc. doesn't mean everyone has some kind of personal problem 06:18 < ebowden_> I said problems. You are adding things to what I said. 06:32 < mgin> what do you guys think of the difference between verbal and technical intelligence? 06:32 < mgin> it's something that i seem to keep noticing over the years, but i don't know of any strong literature on it 06:59 < FourFire> mgin, still around? 07:01 < FourFire> mgin, read this paragraph, for future reference please: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indefinite_lifespan#Not_immortality 07:05 < FourFire> Oh, had mgin but pinged me I could have answered some of his questions 07:20 < kanzure> it's still not clear to me whether mgin is looking to acquire skills necessary for cellular and molecular biology projects, or if he's more interested in debate. 07:22 < ebowden_> It does not appear that he is attempting to acquire those skills. 07:28 < kanzure> alright then 07:37 -!- delinquentme [~delinquen@74.61.157.78] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:01 -!- davm_ [~davm@adsl-107-203-26-177.dsl.tul2ok.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:19 < kanzure> "A new approach for immobilization of oligonucleotides onto piezoelectric quartz crystal for preparation of a nucleic acid sensor for following hybridization" 08:20 < kanzure> "Oligonucleotide immobilization on micropatterned streptavidin surfaces" eh... requires "silylated silicon surfaces". hm. 08:23 -!- nottimschmidt [~timschmid@35.10.220.134] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:24 -!- sheena [~home@d162-156-32-180.bchsia.telus.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:24 -!- nottimschmidt [~timschmid@35.10.220.134] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:26 < kanzure> "The biotin-streptavidin interaction can be reversibly broken using water at elevated temperatures" 08:26 < kanzure> http://www.researchgate.net/profile/Mathias_Uhlen/publication/8042988_The_biotin-streptavidin_interaction_can_be_reversibly_broken_using_water_at_elevated_temperatures/links/00463524e840f34ba9000000.pdf 08:30 < kanzure> "A factorial analysis of silanization conditions for the immobilization of oligonucleotides on glass surfaces" 08:30 < kanzure> http://www.researchgate.net/profile/Tony_Cass/publication/11937016_A_factorial_analysis_of_silanization_conditions_for_the_immobilization_of_oligonucleotides_on_glass_surfaces/links/0deec532837cc36f7b000000.pdf 08:32 < kanzure> hm well i can't seem to find any evidence of a reversible immobilization method 08:32 < CaptHindsight> kanzure: lets just say that we have the magic drop mover and mixer, what's next? 08:33 < CaptHindsight> there are photocleavable linkers to silanes 08:33 < kanzure> next is a magic drop washer that doesn't obliterate the dna or oligonucleotides 08:35 < kanzure> and also, it would be ideal to avoid gel extraction techniques (e.g. "run it through gel electrophoresis, then slice the gel cake, then elute, then centrifuge for a while, then try to manually recover the dna") because they take way too many steps (having a machine do a million gel extractions is ugh) 08:36 < CaptHindsight> oligos bonded to a silane that can be moved and washed 08:36 < kanzure> i think they need to be released for the assembly steps. and once they are released, i don't think any more wash steps are possible. 08:37 < kanzure> .wik gel extraction 08:37 < yoleaux> "In molecular biology, gel extraction or gel isolation is a technique used to isolate a desired fragment of intact DNA from an agarose gel following agarose gel electrophoresis. After extraction, fragments of interest can be mixed, precipitated, and enzymatically ligated together in several simple steps." — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gel_extraction 08:37 < CaptHindsight> can't they be assembled going in the opposite direction from the base bonded to the silane? 08:39 < kanzure> there are two dna inputs to each assembly operation (well at least 2 dna inputs). if they are both bonded to different objects, then they will never interact. 08:40 < kanzure> what is my magic million-drop drop mover? 08:40 < ParahSailin_> .title http://www.eetimes.com/author.asp?section_id=36&doc_id=1327192 08:40 < yoleaux> Why I Won't Do Another Kickstarter Campaign | EE Times 08:40 < ParahSailin_> from the parallela adapteva guy 08:48 -!- delinquentme [~delinquen@74.61.157.78] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:49 < delinquentme> kanzure, 08:49 < delinquentme> uhwayke? 08:51 < kanzure> whatup 08:51 < delinquentme> gchat 08:53 < FourFire> wait, parallela isn't a dud? 08:53 < FourFire> I though it was since they silently cancelled the 64 core design 08:54 < delinquentme> last I heard there was some kid doing research in parallel compute and wanting to build out a small parallela cluster 08:54 < kanzure> delinquentme: ok replid on gchat 08:58 < FourFire> delinquentme, reference? 09:05 < delinquentme> FourFire, Im wanting to say it was some kid posting this on a crowdfunding site 09:05 < delinquentme> im getting search collisions with parallella though so 09:06 -!- ahab [~ahab@107.15.99.154] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:06 -!- ebowden_ [~ebowden@147.69.32.113] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:07 < kanzure> ahab: hello 09:07 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@147.69.32.113] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:07 < ahab> hello kanzure 09:08 < FourFire> delinquentme, well the closest I saw was some silly 64 RPi "supercomputer" made with lego, and a 6 node Odroid-X2 09:09 < FourFire> I'm interested in any low cost per 16x PCIe 3.0 port 09:09 < FourFire> if there are ARM computers with PCIe x16 then I might have a use for them 09:11 < JayDugger> tACS and lucid dreaming: Induction of self awareness in dreams through frontal low current stimulation of gamma activity, http://www.nature.com/neuro/journal/v17/n6/pdf/nn.3719.pdf 09:11 < kanzure> ahab: what brings you here? 09:13 < ahab> kanzure, interest in the topic of course, but also just to be able to talk to people with shared interests. I'm relatively new in my town and an introvert, so this is my attempt to be a bit more social. 09:16 < kanzure> you seem to do bitcoin things 09:19 < delinquentme> ^ the master at work 09:19 < delinquentme> ahab, this is the place to be 09:20 < delinquentme> IDK if we deliver on work as often as we like 09:20 < ahab> kanzure, if that statement was directed at me....wow...yeah I do some bitcoin stuff. 09:20 < delinquentme> but its quite agood spot for novel ideas / vetting of concepts in hard science 09:21 < kanzure> ahab: it was :-) 09:21 < ahab> delinquentme, that is what I am more interested in, I used to do research in nanomaterials 09:21 < kanzure> which materials? 09:21 < ahab> kanzure, well...I have 34 asics on standby atm... 09:21 < ahab> OMC - ordered mesoporous carbon 09:21 < kanzure> ahab: use nicehash.com 09:22 < ahab> kanzure, I'll check it out 09:22 < kanzure> ahab: we're building an inkjet dna synthesizer (phosphoramidite chemistry) 09:22 < kanzure> a material with 50 nm pores would be very useful, especially if they have bottoms 09:23 < ahab> kanzure, I can create an ordered hexagonal matrix of either amorphous/crystalline carbon and almost any pore size...well I used to 09:24 < kanzure> ahab: http://diyhpl.us/wiki/dna/synthesis/notes/ 09:25 < delinquentme> ahab, why didnt you get here sooner 09:26 < ahab> deliquentme...well, the introvert part...but I'm here now 09:26 < ahab> kanzure, can you see academic pulications? 09:26 < ahab> JACS, Advanced functional materials? 09:31 < kanzure> haven't checked those, but yea i have access to some stuff 09:33 < ahab> creating ordered mesoporous carbon is quite easy, use block copolymers for self assembly and depending on the ratios and or added materials, you can dictate pore size 09:37 -!- sheena [~home@d162-156-32-180.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:40 < ahab> brb 09:44 < delinquentme> ahab, mesoporous ... can you explain this term? 09:49 < JayDugger> medium-sized pores in carbon, but that leaves a lot to be desired as a defintion. 09:53 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r167-57-25-202.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:55 < CaptHindsight> I have to run but you bond the first base to the silane and grow that to a desire length and then cleave the bond to the silane 09:56 < CaptHindsight> the free oligo may now be bonded an oligo still bonded on one end to the silane 09:56 < CaptHindsight> + to 09:56 < kanzure> once you cleave, how do you bond it back? 09:57 < CaptHindsight> you won't bond it back to the silane, just to an oligo that is still anchored 09:57 < kanzure> how will you bond it to an oligo that is still anchored? 09:58 < CaptHindsight> have to run 09:58 < CaptHindsight> but I'll go over it later 09:59 -!- delinquentme [~delinquen@74.61.157.78] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:09 < kanzure> haha ancestry.com is expanding into healthcare looolz 10:13 -!- FourFire [~FourFire@185.7.192.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:16 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:24 -!- FourFire [~FourFire@125-26-11.connect.netcom.no] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:31 -!- FourFire [~FourFire@125-26-11.connect.netcom.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:43 -!- FourFire [~FourFire@53-219-11.connect.netcom.no] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:02 -!- delinquentme [~delinquen@74.61.157.78] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:23 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@147.69.32.113] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:38 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@147.69.32.113] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:41 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r167-57-25-202.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:42 < kanzure> bloop 11:51 -!- EnLilaSko [~Nattzor@unaffiliated/enlilasko] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:51 -!- EnLilaSko [~Nattzor@host-85-30-145-65.sydskane.nu] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:51 -!- EnLilaSko [~Nattzor@host-85-30-145-65.sydskane.nu] has quit [Changing host] 11:51 -!- EnLilaSko [~Nattzor@unaffiliated/enlilasko] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:58 -!- PatrickRobotham [uid18270@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xzasxtukayaqyvhu] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 12:08 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@147.69.32.113] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:16 -!- Madplatypus [uid19957@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-orxtnusqlnngegxn] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:27 < delinquentme> kanzure, 12:28 < delinquentme> other than epPCR. What are other meaningful ways to add meaningful mutations to an organisms genome 12:28 < delinquentme> are there liquid handling methods which could do such a thing? 12:28 < kanzure> .wik site-specific mutagenesis 12:28 < yoleaux> "Site-directed mutagenesis is a molecular biology method that is used to make specific and intentional changes to the DNA sequence of a gene and any gene products." — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Site-specific_mutagenesis 12:30 -!- QuadIngi [~FourFire@53-219-11.connect.netcom.no] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:32 -!- Madplatypus is now known as Maddragon 12:34 -!- FourFire [~FourFire@53-219-11.connect.netcom.no] has left ##hplusroadmap ["Leaving"] 12:34 < kanzure> ugh http://futuregrind.org/2015/07/15/ep-1-tim-cannon-on-biohacking-and-transhumanism/ 12:36 -!- QuadIngi is now known as FourFire 12:38 < delinquentme> would raman spec be useful on cells to determine if they're expressing novel proteins ? or is that env just too non-homogenous? 12:39 < delinquentme> say I have baseline cell gen1, i change shit, get gen2, I want to compare + see if expression of a known protein was upregulated. I know this can be done w sequencing/ metabolomics 12:56 -!- erasmus [~esb@unaffiliated/erasmus] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:13 -!- rigel [~yourmom@c-24-21-52-83.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:13 -!- rigel [~yourmom@c-24-21-52-83.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:16 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:16 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:25 -!- Maddragon is now known as Madplatypus 13:32 -!- rigel [~yourmom@c-24-21-52-83.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:32 -!- rigel [~yourmom@c-24-21-52-83.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:36 -!- rigel [~yourmom@c-24-21-52-83.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:37 -!- rigel [~yourmom@c-24-21-52-83.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:41 -!- rigel [~yourmom@c-24-21-52-83.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:42 -!- rigel [~yourmom@c-24-21-52-83.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:47 -!- rigel [~yourmom@c-24-21-52-83.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:47 -!- rigel [~yourmom@c-24-21-52-83.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:05 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r167-57-25-202.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:08 -!- rigel [~yourmom@c-24-21-52-83.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:09 -!- rigel [~yourmom@c-24-21-52-83.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:10 -!- rigel [~yourmom@c-24-21-52-83.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:11 -!- nottimschmidt [~timschmid@35.10.220.134] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:13 -!- nottimschmidt [~timschmid@35.10.220.134] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:14 -!- rigel [~yourmom@c-24-21-52-83.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:19 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:36 -!- drewbot_ [~cinch@ec2-54-82-14-89.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:36 -!- drewbot [~cinch@ec2-54-242-1-227.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:37 -!- nottimschmidt [~timschmid@35.10.220.134] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:39 -!- nottimschmidt [~timschmid@35.10.220.134] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:40 < kanzure> origin of hyperlinks http://hapgood.us/2015/07/21/beyond-conversation/ 14:41 < kanzure> ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9929187 ) 14:53 < kanzure> 2 mm diameter mirror https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkrbR_6_Jx4 15:08 < kanzure> electronically-addressable piston-based hydraulic actuator http://wims2.org/publications/papers/1308062274-Kim%20Najafi%20MEMS%2009.pdf (but not very tiny?) 15:20 < kanzure> "A method for pneumatically inserting an array of penetrating electrodes into cortical tissue" http://www.cnbc.cmu.edu/~samondjm/papers/RouscheandNormann1992.pdf 15:22 < kanzure> "The goal of this research was to find a practical means by which an array of 100 needle-shaped electrodes could be implanted into the cerebral cortex with minimal brain tissue trauma. It was found that insertion of these structures into cortical tissues could only be performed using high insertion speeds. A pneumatically actuated impact insertion system has been developed that is capable of inserting an electrode array into feline brain ... 15:22 < kanzure> ... tissue at speeds from about 1 to 11 m/sec. We found that a minimum array insertion speed of 8.3 m/sec was necessary for a complete, safe insertion of all 100 electrodes in the array to a depth of 1.5 mm into feline cortex." 15:39 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-55-160-13.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:51 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-55-160-13.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:00 -!- FourFire [~FourFire@53-219-11.connect.netcom.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:06 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-55-160-13.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:17 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-55-160-13.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:23 -!- yashgaroth [~ffffff@2602:306:35fa:d500:4935:8e30:c5ff:5d1d] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:26 -!- Viper168_ [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:28 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:39 -!- Viper168_ is now known as Viper168 16:52 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:44 -!- PatrickRobotham [uid18270@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hdqcnrhhobccgfdp] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:51 < mgin> hey 17:51 < mgin> alright, variation, who here is trying to live forever, and what's your strategy? 17:53 < kanzure> 1) acquire all knowledge 2) build things http://diyhpl.us/wiki/declaration (there has been no particular criticism with this approach, so in general you can safely assume most people in here agree with this method) 17:54 < mgin> i want to hear others' approach 17:56 < kanzure> well there's the kurzweil approach ("invest in some stocks, sit back and wait 30 years") 17:57 < kanzure> what's your alternative? 17:58 < mgin> well the obvious answer is SENS 18:02 < kanzure> you mean "wait for the sens foundation to do more stuff" or do you mean "i have some plans for working on the sens goals"? 18:04 < mgin> well right, the content of the strategy would be to act in such a way as to maximize one's contribution to that effort 18:09 < CaptHindsight> kanzure: linkers like these are cleaveable leaving blunt ends on the oligos http://www.genelink.com/newsite/products/mod_detail.asp?modid=133 18:15 < CaptHindsight> Custom Oligonucleotide Synthesis http://www.genelink.com/newsite/products/unmodoligosINTRO.asp Gene Link Oligo Synthesis Division is not an "oligo factory". 18:15 < CaptHindsight> so what are they actually making? 18:15 < CaptHindsight> just mods? 18:18 < streety> kanzure: or haven't read it 18:18 * streety has only just now read it 18:45 -!- delinquentme [~delinquen@74.61.157.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:55 < mgin> so 18:55 < mgin> is anyone here into SENS? 18:56 < CaptHindsight> Saudi Environmental Society? 18:57 < CaptHindsight> or the Japanese instrumental group? 18:57 < mgin> no 18:58 < mgin> strategies for engineering negligible senesence 19:24 -!- rigel [~yourmom@c-24-21-52-83.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:25 -!- rigel [~yourmom@c-24-21-52-83.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:26 -!- rigel [~yourmom@c-24-21-52-83.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:30 -!- rigel [~yourmom@c-24-21-52-83.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:38 < kanzure> mgin: yes, we have some people that used to work at the sens foundation 19:39 < kanzure> CaptHindsight: some of the mailorder dna synthesis companies just have lots and lots of machine to make up for their poor throughput. also they just sequence everything. 19:39 < kanzure> *poor yield 19:40 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sbfsqvrgcoueskvt] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 19:42 < justanotheruser> mgin: my strategy is to make money while aquiring knowledge so I can build things that lead to immortality 19:43 < kanzure> gasp 19:44 < justanotheruser> I'm a bit caught up in the aquiring money part atm though :D 19:46 -!- erasmus [~esb@unaffiliated/erasmus] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:46 < kanzure> yes well you spend all of your time in school 19:46 < justanotheruser> it is abit strange though, I'm not sure what he's expecting, it's not as if the optimal strategy is mapped out step by step, hplus is full of people making maps of a foggy forest 19:48 -!- erasmus [~esb@unaffiliated/erasmus] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:49 < mgin> justanotheruser: build what things? 19:50 < justanotheruser> mgin: I'm mostly following others leads right now, but I'd like to branch off and work on item two in proposals when I gain sufficient knowledge and equipment 19:50 < mgin> item 2? 19:50 < justanotheruser> http://diyhpl.us/wiki/projects/proposals/ 19:51 < mgin> you're trying to build a cheap atomic microscope? 19:51 < justanotheruser> I plan to try to 19:51 < justanotheruser> I'm still a few steps behind 19:51 < mgin> why? 19:51 < juri_> I'm studying like crazy, and writing/building free software/hardware. 19:51 < kanzure> there's not much to it, you're going to be disappointed, justanotheruser 19:51 < juri_> refurbing an SEM. 19:51 < kanzure> it's like a piezo and some tungsten tips or something 19:51 < kanzure> .. and lots of granite. 19:52 < justanotheruser> kanzure: I've looked into it, I remember you telling me that I shouldn't be looking into piezo tubes and piezo buzzers would suffice. Why is that? Do piezo buzzers have the granularity needed? 19:52 < kanzure> tubes.. hm. 19:52 < justanotheruser> I looked into purchasing piezo tubes, but they require a bulk order worth thousands of dollars from the places I checked 19:53 < kanzure> iirc most piezoelectric crystals have the same response properties. 19:55 < mgin> justanotheruser: why? 19:55 < justanotheruser> mgin: because atomic manipulation 19:56 < mgin> can you please explain 19:56 < mgin> because you sound like you're delusional 19:57 < justanotheruser> kanzure: these are 10cm/V https://www.americanpiezo.com/standard-products/buzzers.html 19:57 < justanotheruser> the piezotubes are more like 10nm/V 19:57 < justanotheruser> at least the PZT-5A BM500 PZT-5H BM527 PZT-4 piezotubes are 19:58 < justanotheruser> Doesn't say anything about their consistency at that level, but I'm sure they're not meant to adjust on the scale of microvolts 19:58 < justanotheruser> mgin: What is there to explain? 19:59 < justanotheruser> s/adjust/expand/ 19:59 < kanzure> justanotheruser: hmm well maybe we should do a group buy at some point 19:59 < kanzure> or i'll just buy it and we can split it up (i'm sure nmz787 would like some) 19:59 < kanzure> probably can find on alibaba 20:00 < justanotheruser> yes, in 2013 I didn't try alibaba 20:00 < justanotheruser> but sensortech.ca requires $1k 20:00 < justanotheruser> and I didn't want to buy 5 piezotubes when I needed one 20:00 < mgin> you could answer my question 20:00 < mgin> why are you trying to build a cheap atomic microscope 20:00 < justanotheruser> 22:55 < justanotheruser> mgin: because atomic manipulation 20:01 < mgin> that doesn't mean anything 20:01 < kanzure> haha 20:01 < kanzure> atoms. movement. 20:01 < mgin> right... 20:01 < justanotheruser> !g AFM 20:01 < mgin> "zebras. chairs" 20:01 < justanotheruser> mgin: google what an STM is 20:02 < kanzure> .wik scanning tunneling microscope 20:02 < yoleaux> "A scanning tunneling microscope (STM) is an instrument for imaging surfaces at the atomic level. Its development in 1981 earned its inventors, Gerd Binnig and Heinrich Rohrer (at IBM Zürich), the Nobel Prize in Physics in 1986. For an STM, good resolution is considered to be 0.1 nm lateral resolution and 0.01 nm depth resolution." — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scanning_tunneling_microscope 20:02 < kanzure> .wik atomic force microscope 20:02 < yoleaux> "Atomic force microscopy (AFM) or scanning force microscopy (SFM) is a very high-resolution type of scanning probe microscopy (SPM), with demonstrated resolution on the order of fractions of a nanometer, more than 1000 times better than the optical diffraction limit." — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_force_microscope 20:02 < mgin> i know what a microscope is. i'm asking why you are trying to build a cheap one 20:02 < justanotheruser> what is hard to understand about this 20:03 < mgin> why you would want to build a cheap atomic microscope 20:03 < justanotheruser> atomic manipulation has many leads for transhumanism 20:03 < mgin> hence why i asked several times 20:03 < mgin> what does a microscope have to do with manipulation? 20:03 < kanzure> it physically touches things 20:03 < mgin> so? 20:03 < mgin> have you guys even thought this through before? 20:03 < justanotheruser> yes, this is where the disconnect is, it isn't an optical microscope, like I said, google what an STM is, some can be designed to manipulate atoms 20:03 < kanzure> humans do not normally have the ability to manipulate individual atoms 20:04 < mgin> the inability to answer the most rudimentary questions about why you are doing something is a gigantic red flag 20:04 < mgin> it's like you have no clue 20:04 < kanzure> or the other theory is something like "you are incapable of reading" 20:05 < kanzure> given that we have had multiple problems with you by now related to reading this channel, i'm inclined to believe this is the same 20:05 < mgin> i already know you have no clue kanzure, i'm not talking to you 20:05 < mgin> hint: i'm never talking to you 20:05 < kanzure> narf 20:06 < justanotheruser> mgin: so which of these things are you confused about? The fact that atomic manipulation is a lead for transhumanism? The fact that an STM can be used to manipulate atoms? The fact that I want to build one? 20:06 < mgin> those are the three questions on the table, yes 20:06 < justanotheruser> I don't see what isn't clear 20:06 < mgin> you just named them 20:07 < justanotheruser> The questions are each answered by the prior question. I want to build one because it can manipulate atoms. I want to manipulate atoms because the ability to do so is a lead for transhumanism. I admit, my sentence doesn't have an answer for why I want transhumanism though. 20:07 < kanzure> justanotheruser: well not dying is generally useful, so there's that 20:08 -!- PatrickRobotham [uid18270@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hdqcnrhhobccgfdp] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 20:08 < mgin> how and how? 20:08 < justanotheruser> how does an stm manipulate atoms? I think wikipedia answers that. How do I build one? I like e-bastelns build 20:09 < kanzure> mgin: often projects are useful on their own without any additional purpose in advance; working on hard projects is useful because those skills often translate to very similar problems. so even if his atomic microscope is never used for molecular nanotechnology tooltip shit, it might still be useful for improving his understanding of signal analysis. 20:09 < mgin> well it's just a token question at this point. obviously whatever mental illness kanzure has you share 20:09 < kanzure> mgin: yes, i've basically infected everyone in here 20:09 < justanotheruser> heh 20:09 < kanzure> welcome to the bee hive 20:10 < justanotheruser> I think my trolldar is broken 20:10 < kanzure> justanotheruser: his heart is in the right place, he's just bad at reading or communication or somethikng 20:10 < CaptHindsight> you're either with user agin us :) 20:11 < CaptHindsight> user/ us er 20:11 < CaptHindsight> (spoken with a pirate voice) 20:11 < kanzure> heh 20:13 < CaptHindsight> the pissing contests tends to end when people reach their early 30's, well used to 20:14 < justanotheruser> CaptHindsight: ever been on IRC? 20:14 < CaptHindsight> too long 20:15 < kanzure> what was your magic droplet moving method? 20:15 < drethelin> very well trained butterfly probosci 20:17 < kanzure> go on 20:17 < CaptHindsight> drethelin: with Groucho glasses and mustache 20:18 < drethelin> the moustache turned out to decrease efficiency 34% so we got rid of it 20:20 < CaptHindsight> http://www.jmu.edu/news/madisonscholar/2012POSaM-project.shtml 2012 POSaM respin 20:21 < kanzure> yep i have seen that video 20:25 < CaptHindsight> http://www.protomatix.com/PORTFOLIO/SYSTEMSBIOLOGY/portfolio_isb.html more pics 20:25 < justanotheruser> Expensive ink 20:26 < CaptHindsight> TIJ ink is >$3k per liter when purchased in 10ml cartridges 20:28 < kanzure> ParahSailin_: do you know any fancypants techniques to reattach oligos to solid supports? 20:29 < drethelin> is there any practical way to find out if a product with "0" grams carbohydrate per serving has something like 0.5 or more like 0.001? 20:32 < ParahSailin_> have them biotinylated 20:32 -!- erasmus [~esb@unaffiliated/erasmus] has quit [Quit: Namaste ] 20:52 < CaptHindsight> kanzure: why reattach oligos to a surface? 20:54 < CaptHindsight> aren't they grown bonded to something then cleaved and attached to the end of another oligo? 21:07 < kanzure> because wash steps 21:20 -!- delinquentme [~delinquen@74.61.157.78] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:28 -!- delinquentme [~delinquen@74.61.157.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:32 -!- delinquentme [~delinquen@74.61.157.78] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:44 -!- delinquentme [~delinquen@74.61.157.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:51 -!- delinquentme [~delinquen@74.61.157.78] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:00 -!- delinquentme [~delinquen@74.61.157.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:16 -!- yashgaroth [~ffffff@2602:306:35fa:d500:4935:8e30:c5ff:5d1d] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:24 -!- juri_ [~juri@vpn166.sdf.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:25 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:32 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:52 < kanzure> yawn 23:20 < kanzure> http://www.philipmetzger.com/blog/affordable-rapid-bootstrapping-space-industry-solar-system-civilization/ 23:20 -!- Acty [uid89656@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sevyutpnkwoctbpo] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 23:23 -!- Porb [~Porbus@101.160.129.140] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:23 -!- Porb is now known as Annnn 23:26 < drethelin> "affordable" "rapid" 23:26 < drethelin> I love when I don't need to read past the URL to know a post is probably bullshit 23:27 < kanzure> heh 23:28 < kanzure> drethelin: have you read tmp2? http://tmp2.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page 23:28 < drethelin> I feel like I skimmed it 23:28 < drethelin> but forever ago 23:28 < drethelin> so I'm sure there's a ton more content now 23:28 < kanzure> depends on what your time dilation factor is 23:29 < drethelin> it's like a scifi version of that wiki 23:29 < drethelin> that's full of the simplest, cheapest versions of a lot of machines 23:29 < drethelin> like tractors and generators 23:29 < drethelin> for the third world 23:29 < drethelin> which I can't google because wiki is a uselss search term 23:30 < kanzure> appropedia? 23:31 < drethelin> this looks like a good one though the one I remember had more 3d graphics mockups than photos 23:31 < kanzure> gvcs wiki? http://opensourceecology.org/wiki/ 23:31 < drethelin> ahh that's the one 23:48 -!- Annnn [~Porbus@101.160.129.140] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:53 -!- sheena [~home@d99-199-117-38.bchsia.telus.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap --- Log closed Thu Jul 23 00:00:19 2015