--- Log opened Fri Oct 16 00:00:58 2015
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02:50 < JayDugger> xfwm4
02:50 < JayDugger> And that's just dandy.
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02:54 < JayDugger> Good morning, everyone.
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03:47 < kanzure> hmph
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04:33 <@nmz787> guess its bedtime now
04:34 <@nmz787> I shall leave you with this
04:34 <@nmz787> small script i just wrote to convert the kicad plot and drill files to the OSHpark extensions, and also ZIP them up: https://gist.github.com/nmz787/e76770c4617cf80819a0
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07:50 < kanzure> nmz787: if you are going to stay up looking at datasheets you might as well use octopart, you know
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09:38 < delinquentme> with DNA nanopores ... what makes it so that the trans-pore speed is variable??
09:43 < kanzure> i thought there was an electrophoretic effect being used?
09:45 < delinquentme> yeah thats the typical method
09:45 < delinquentme> but for some reason the speed varies
09:45 < delinquentme> OH wait!?
09:45 < kanzure> increase/decrease voltage
09:45 < delinquentme> noooo it can't be just because they use shitty PSUs ??
09:46 < kanzure> they use the PSUs with the voltage potentiometer knob things
09:46 < delinquentme> dude. If thats why theres that variance in the speed I'm going to start screaming
09:46 < delinquentme> kanzure, I think I'm missing the next step in that though you're expecting me to make?
09:47 < delinquentme> http://twoporeguys.com/technology.html
09:47 < kanzure> nah i am just making stuff up, i have never looked at nanopore speed stuff
09:48 < kanzure> i have previously assumed they were using a setup very similar to gel electrophoresis for controlling molecule movement rate through nanopore
09:48 < kanzure> and not a nanopore-electrode-specific mechanism
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09:49 < delinquentme> kanzure, do you understand why I want to scream?
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09:50 < kanzure> nope, variable control of dna translocation through nanopore seems like a useful tihng to have control of.
09:50 < delinquentme> also the tech for that above website is novel
09:50 < delinquentme> and addresses exactly that
09:50 < delinquentme> ( what you just said )
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09:51 < delinquentme> BUT I'd want to scream because if it IS because of shitty PSUs or some kind of uncontrolled oddball capacitance changes in the machine
09:51 < delinquentme> that just means this is another fucking stupid thing which SOMEHOW we've overlooked
09:51 < delinquentme> law. just saw a dude in a Quid hoodie
09:52 < kanzure> where is juri_
09:52 < kanzure> tim schmidt wants to ask about aluminum extruder things
09:53 < kanzure> just gonna link to this one for now i guess https://media.ccc.de/browse/congress/2014/31c3_-_6417_-_en_-_saal_g_-_201412271245_-_3d_casting_aluminum_-_julia_longtin.html#video
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10:02 < kanzure> selective breeding project for neural recording and stimulation: select for brains that have large-scale connectivity to an easily-accessible region, for both stimulation and recording. so instead of having to stick a probe deep into the brain, just something on the surface that just-so-happens to route to areas-of-interest in the brain. selection can be based on brain implant recording/stimulation signal-to-noise ratios and observed ...
10:03 < kanzure> ... phenotype behavior, and selection can also be based on physically observing large-scale connectivity of the brain.
10:03 < kanzure> might be a way to do that with fetal brain surgery to redirect and repurpose large fiber pathways that will be developing later anyway
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10:22 < delinquentme> possibly strand unwinding... could cause fluctuations in trans-pore speed
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10:24 < delinquentme> kanzure,
10:24 < delinquentme> i need to finish dis patent.
10:24 < delinquentme> nmz787, can I call on the hive mind once again?
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10:31 < CaptHindsight> I guess the earlier nanopore sensors didn't have multiple detectors to average out any noise
10:33 < CaptHindsight> or was the bandwidth of the sensors to low for the rate at which the DNA moved across them?
10:33 < delinquentme> CaptHindsight, combinatorics of both of those
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10:33 < delinquentme> physical deformation / stretching could also contribute
10:33 < delinquentme> physical restraints of co-locaiton of those sensors
10:35 < CaptHindsight> looks like hardly anyone is working on this
10:36 < CaptHindsight> had big pharma poopooed the idea so much that everyones been distracted from wanting this?
10:37 < CaptHindsight> or is it patents?
10:38 < delinquentme> CaptHindsight, what area?
10:39 < CaptHindsight> nanopore dna sequencers
10:39 < CaptHindsight> delinquentme: ^
10:40 < delinquentme> oh nanopores are a hot area of research
10:40 < delinquentme> oxfornanopore?
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10:48 < kanzure> .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9BHRo2d8nw
10:48 < yoleaux> Optogenetic pacemaker - YouTube
10:49 < kanzure> .title http://advances.sciencemag.org/content/1/9/e150­0639
10:49 < yoleaux> kanzure: Sorry, that command (.title) crashed.
10:49 < kanzure> hmph
10:50 < kanzure> "A general feedback theory of human behavior" http://www.amsciepub.com/doi/pdf/10.2466/pms.1960.11.1.71
10:50 < kanzure> no idea why i had that open in a tab
10:59 < kanzure> "the spatial topography of the neocortex is strongly reflected in its molecular topography-the closer two cortical regions, the more similar their transcriptomes [266]"
11:00 < kanzure> "Data from the Allen Mouse Atlas shows that specific genetic markers, such as RAR-related orphan receptor beta, potassium voltage-gated channel, subfamily H (eag-related) member 7, ephrin A5, and activity regulated cytoskeletal-associated protein (Arc) are expressed at markedly higher levels in primary sensory areas (V1, S1, and A1) than elsewhere in the cortex (Stefan Mihalas, personal communication)."
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11:10 < kanzure> hm he wants glucose-powered brain implants as an alternative to wireless energy transmission
11:15 < kanzure> "An important caveat to these conclusions on wireless data transfer occurs if we consider the use of ultrasound rather than electromagnetic radiation. Because the speed of sound is dramatically slower than that of light, the wavelength of 10 MHz ultrasound is only ~150 microns (approximating the speed of sound in brain as the speed of sound in water, ~1500 m/s). Thus, many 10 MHz ultrasound transmitters/receiver could be placed inside a ...
11:15 < kanzure> ... mouse brain while maintaining their spatial separation above the wavelength, and a linear scaling of the MIMO channel capacity with the number of devices is likely possible in this regime, assuming the appropriate antenna gains and orientations can be achieved inside brain tissue. Beam orientation could present a challenge if micro-devices are oriented randomly after implantation. With an attenuation of 0.5 dB/(cm MHz)[6], the ...
11:15 < kanzure> ... attenuation at 10 MHz is only 5 dB/cm. Thus ultrasound-based transmission of power and data from embedded recording devices may be viable[585]."
11:16 < kanzure> mri contrast agent based on neurotransmitter release[596]
11:19 < kanzure> "Replication of the 3 billion bp human genome takes approximately 8 hours in normally dividing cells, which is a nucleotide incorporation rate of ~100 kHz; in order to not exceed the metabolic rates associated with normal genome replication, molecular ticker tapes operating at 1 kHz polymerization speed[343] would be limited to approximately 100 simultaneously replicated templates per cell. Equivalently, ~1700 RNA tickertapes each ...
11:19 < kanzure> ... operating at 1 kHz."
11:20 < kanzure> "The maximal rate of neuronal aerobic respiration is ~5 fmol of ATP minute via oxidative respiration. Assuming ~1 ATP equivalent consumed per nucleotide incorporation, if neuronal metabolism were entirely dedicated to polymerization, it would support the incorporation of up to 6e9 nucleotides per minute, or 10^5 simultaneously replicated DNA templates at 1 kHz."
11:21 < kanzure> "Ticker tapes operating at 1 kHz with 10,000 simultaneously replicated templates could record for 300 seconds before the total length of DNA synthesized equals the human genome length. In the case of RNA polymerase 2-based transcription, 2.75h of recording by 10,000 recorders is required to reach the net transcript length in the cell."
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11:37 < nmz787_i> kanzure: wasn't looking at datasheets last night, was laying out a pcb
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12:36 < nmz787_i> .tell delinquentme what do you request of the hive-mind?
12:36 < yoleaux> nmz787_i: I'll pass your message to delinquentme.
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12:37 < nmz787_i> .tell delinquentme: i bet the variation is simply due to each base having a different electronic configuration. It would be quite a lapse in engineering if they would allow the design to have sensors with enough amplification and low enough noise not to notice a crappy rippling powersupply. And in fact, I would bet that the powersupply ripple would massively affect the sensor readings, so I have real doubts about that being the case.
12:37 < yoleaux> nmz787_i: What kind of a name is "delinquentme:"?!
12:38 < nmz787_i> .tell delinquentme   : i bet the variation is simply due to each base having a different electronic configuration. It would be quite a lapse in engineering if they would allow the design to have sensors with enough amplification and low enough noise not to notice a crappy rippling powersupply. And in fact, I would bet that the powersupply ripple would massively affect the sensor readings, so I have real doubts about that being the case.
12:38 < yoleaux> nmz787_i: I'll pass your message to delinquentme.
12:42 < nmz787_i> hmm, https://www-ssl.intel.com/content/www/us/en/do-it-yourself/arduino-101.html
12:42 < nmz787_i> .title
12:42 < yoleaux> Arduino 101* Board | Learn the Basics and Become a Maker
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12:47 < kanzure> https://medium.com/@bramcohen/how-wallets-can-handle-transaction-fees-ff5d020d14fb
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13:22 < nmz787_i1> delinquentme: see logs for some responses to you
13:23 < delinquentme> kk
13:23 < yoleaux> 19:36Z <nmz787_i> delinquentme: what do you request of the hive-mind?
13:23 < yoleaux> 19:38Z <nmz787_i> delinquentme: : i bet the variation is simply due to each base having a different electronic configuration. It would be quite a lapse in engineering if they would allow the design to have sensors with enough amplification and low enough noise not to notice a crappy rippling powersupply. And in fact, I would bet that the powersupply ripple would massively affect the sensor readings, so I have real doubts about that
13:23 < yoleaux> being the case.
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14:08 < kanzure> nsh: wikipedia's article on signal-noise ratio doesn't really elaborate about research about online communities. do you have anything?
14:11 < kanzure> nsh: most of the conversation about signal-noise ratio in online discussions is often about merely very obvious noise, rather than robust signal that grows over time. instead we often just see signal diminishing over time.
14:14 < kanzure> buy-an-account strategy is interesting if you could allow people to get past the paywall with nominations. (or really, probably need paywall + nominations and the nominations get to decide appropriate paywall level, which in some cases might be zero)
14:15 < kanzure> i guess that might count as a pyramid scheme for content. oops.
14:18 < delinquentme> nmz787_i, actually i was after the hive mind for how to get the positioning done for this DNA ligation
14:18 < kanzure> dna ligase attaches to dna molecules on its own
14:18 < delinquentme> I've suggested a number of ways to align the DNA with molecular-scale grooves in the alignment platform
14:19 < delinquentme> targeted heating elements at the ligation site to increase local energy w intent of overcoming any minimum for ligation
14:19 < delinquentme> samesies w forcues thz waves
14:19 < delinquentme> focused*
14:19 < delinquentme> kanzure, the mechanoligation
14:20 < delinquentme> the afm / stm tip forced joining of dsDNA or ssDNA
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14:20 < kanzure> mechanical force can't cause ligation exceptinasmuch as it can cause dna molecules to be positioned close enough for a chemical reaction to occur
14:20 < delinquentme> also included the CNT threading nmz787 suggested
14:20 < delinquentme> why  not?
14:20 < delinquentme> everything in the research says its quite possible
14:20 < kanzure> not like smashing two potatoes together
14:21 < delinquentme> including research from Freits and Merkle
14:21 < delinquentme> they're doing it for diamonds
14:21 < delinquentme> and unless im incorrect ( im not ) those are much more energetic bonds than DNA
14:22 < kanzure> yes they were using covalent bond chemistry
14:22 < delinquentme> but define "chemistry" here
14:22 < delinquentme> they're simply doing deposition
14:22 < delinquentme> well characterized AFM tip deposition of carbon atoms
14:23 < delinquentme> oh wait sorry
14:23 < delinquentme> n 2003, Oyabu et al.[17] reported the first instance of purely mechanical-based covalent bond-making and bond-breaking, i.e., the first experimental demonstration of true mechanosynthesis—albeit with silicon rather than carbon atoms.
14:27 < delinquentme> thats like the thing that i keep hearing from chemists
14:27 < delinquentme> like chemistry is magic
14:27 < delinquentme> nah its just overcoming local energy fields
14:27 < kanzure> technically, chemistry is alchemy
14:27 < kanzure> magic is something else
14:28 < delinquentme> whats a rather large stationary molecule which would affix to a set sequence on a strand of DNA?
14:28 < kanzure> dna ligase, dna polymerase, etc.
14:28 < delinquentme> stationary as in ... its not ratcheting its way down the DNA
14:29 < delinquentme> like it will simply attach to a sequence and sit its ass there
14:29 < kanzure> you can biotinylate a dna molecule at various bases
14:29 < kanzure> or is that streptavidin. i can never remember this....
14:30 < delinquentme> im asking because if I can put a big fat molecule near the position I want to ligate at .. it would allow me more control over rotationial orientation of the dna
14:30 < kanzure> you can also use aptamers or antibodies to bind to particular dna molecules
14:30 < delinquentme> just because the thing im rotating is bigger
14:31 < kanzure> you are not going to be able to rotate the entire dna molecule. it will just twist and turn. it's a giant piece of string.
14:31 < delinquentme> yeah but all i need is rotation at the ligation site
14:31 < delinquentme> phuck the rest of it
14:31 < delinquentme> dat head.
14:31 < delinquentme> sorry.
14:31 < delinquentme> im reading research so i took some addies
14:32 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/DNA/
14:33 < kanzure> hmm i forgot about click chemistry dna ligation
14:36 < delinquentme> silly question: when people are doing typical ligation of DNA
14:36 < delinquentme> is ATP added in as a spearate chemical?
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14:37 < delinquentme> http://www.molecularassembler.com/Nanofactory/Challenges.htm
14:37 < delinquentme> nmz787_i1, unsure if you saw the mentions above
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14:38 < kanzure> t4 dna ligase reuires atp
14:39 < delinquentme> work piece surfaces.
14:39 < delinquentme> thats the term i've been looking for
14:39 < delinquentme> kanzure, yeah. so where does it come from
14:39 < delinquentme> its not in purified water that these reactions are run in
14:39 < delinquentme> where comes from?
14:40 < kanzure> probably the buffer mix
14:40 < kanzure> https://www.neb.com/products/b0202-t4-dna-ligase-reaction-buffer
14:40 < delinquentme> small black holes which spring in and out of existance at the interection of valence bonds of quantium tunneling magic alechmistry chem?
14:40 < delinquentme> someone should kick my face in for that =[
14:40 < kanzure> tactical drone was deployed like 10 minutes ago, way ahead of you
14:40 < delinquentme> this is why face to face is so good
14:40 < delinquentme> i dont get aggro
14:41 < delinquentme> hahahahaha
14:41 < delinquentme> <3
14:41 < kanzure> unfortunately it missed and landed somewhere in iran, so ::shrug::
14:42 < delinquentme> fucking quantum covalence
14:42 < kanzure> is Challenges.htm new to you?
14:42 < delinquentme> shitting on physics based effects everywhere
14:42 < delinquentme> yeaaaaa
14:42 < delinquentme> reading it for first tiem nao
14:43 < kanzure> have you read the tooltip paper? http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/nanotech/Optimal%20tooltip%20trajectories%20in%20a%20hydrogen%20abstraction%20tool%20recharge%20reaction%20sequence%20for%20positionally%20controlled%20diamond%20mechanosynthesis.pdf
14:46 < delinquentme> nopeeee
14:46 < delinquentme> trying to download some paper and my stupid stupid thing is being stupid
14:49 < delinquentme> Mechanical Vertical Manipulation of Selected Single Atoms by Soft Nanoindentation
14:49 < delinquentme> Using Near Contact Atomic Force Microscopy
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14:53 < delinquentme> im writing a patent =|
14:53 < delinquentme> im like
14:54 < delinquentme> whats then word when you cant talk to a really cute girl?
14:54 < delinquentme> yeah. dat feel
14:56 < delinquentme> lol fucking wat.
14:56 < delinquentme> dude. what if we just have mechanically constrained ends of DNA with ligase molecules or whatever smashed into a substrate ( nano imporint lithography or whateves )
14:56 < maaku> delinquentme: you are patenting atomic mechanosynthesis using an AFM?
14:57 < delinquentme> then just let the ends we want to ligate hang free
14:57 < delinquentme> STM
14:57 < delinquentme> =|
14:57 < delinquentme> maaku plz tear it apart
14:57 < maaku> uh, (1) prior art
14:57 < maaku> (2) dear god why?
14:59 < kanzure> maaku: i suspect that he believes writing and getting a patent will help him with raising funding in the future. but that's my only guess.
14:59 < maaku> has he done anything novel?
14:59 < delinquentme> prior art on mechanical synthesis for DNA ligation?
15:00 < delinquentme> plz provide
15:00 < maaku> delinquentme: have you actually accomplished this?
15:01 < delinquentme> maaku no
15:01 < delinquentme> but we are building the STMs which seem like the tool to be used for this
15:01 < delinquentme> mecanics / dampening are all compelte
15:01 < delinquentme> complete*
15:02 < delinquentme> and I have the eagle / something other designer PCB files
15:02 < delinquentme> my EE/ roboticist is MIA at current
15:02 < delinquentme> so im like OKAAAY what should I do in his absence ....?
15:02 < maaku> delinquentme: let me get this straight: you are farming ##hplusroadmap for ideas for the purpose of filing a patent?
15:03 < delinquentme> maaku im farming the ##hplusroadmap for ideas on how to position / align the DNA fragments
15:03 < delinquentme> for the purpose of writing this into a patent
15:03 < delinquentme> yes
15:03 < maaku> methinks the proper response would be "fuck off"
15:03 < maaku> and if that's out of line, then I'm outa here
15:04 < delinquentme> maaku lol
15:04 < delinquentme> why?
15:04 < delinquentme> I think you might understimate how much value i put in you guys?
15:04 < delinquentme> I talk this channel up so much.
15:04 < delinquentme> IRL too.
15:04 < maaku> so you want to take the ideas of people here and get an enforced monopoly on their use?
15:05 < maaku> do you really not see what is wrong about that?
15:07 < delinquentme> maaku, i think you dont understand how much value I put in this channel.
15:08 < maaku> delinquentme: so patent your own fucking ideas
15:08 < delinquentme> maaku stated more directly: if anything came of this i'd be pulling in people from this channel.
15:08 < delinquentme> ok well i appreciate your input
15:08 < delinquentme> thanks.
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15:10 < delinquentme> kanzure, am I being out of line here?
15:10 < delinquentme> I mean more so than what is acceptable?
15:11 < kanzure> "Chemical transformation of human astroglial cells into neurons for brain repair" http://www.cell.com/cell-stem-cell/abstract/S1934-5909(15)00419-1
15:11 < kanzure> "Small Molecules Efficiently Reprogram Human Astroglial Cells into Functional Neurons"
15:13 < kanzure> i think that it's fair to say that intellectual property law is severely fucked up at the moment; there's no way to know whether you can successfully stop patent trolls from litigating the hell out of you even if you have prior art (you still have to pay the expenses of defending against the patent troll).
15:14 < kanzure> it's a really murky question; what some companies do is they just "promise" to not litigate the shit out of everyone with their patent portfolio. but promises ain't worth nothing.
15:16 < kanzure> the idea of taking ideas from a public community and then patenting them is definitely a little unethical; but that's the entire premise of the whole patent system.
15:16 < kanzure> i am not sure if we should be excommunicating people just because they have to interact with the patent system. non-participation is not always optimal.
15:17 < kanzure> but also... i would guess that you are overestimating the utility of filing for patents.
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15:23 < delinquentme> Id agree w everything thats been said
15:23 < delinquentme> but I want to empahsize that I see ##hplus as the brain trust.
15:23 < delinquentme> but I think we all already know this?
15:23 < delinquentme> maybe maaku doesnt idk.
15:25 < kanzure> whatis brain trust?
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15:26 < kanzure> http://journals.lww.com/plasreconsurg/Fulltext/2015/10000/Nerve_Transfers_to_Restore_Upper_Extremity.24.aspx
15:26 < delinquentme> as in like the think tank of applied transhumanisms and all things " INTERESTING ENGINEERING"
15:26 < kanzure> cool i should reroute some of my leg nerves to my hands, i don't need fine motor control of my feet do i
15:26 < delinquentme> and the first people I'd hire to work with me
15:26 < delinquentme> because I know you guys
15:26 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/wiki/hplusroadmap
15:26 < delinquentme> even if I can afford some of the oldfags
15:27 < delinquentme> <3
15:30 < kanzure> "In spinal cord injury, a nerve transfer bypasses the damaged spinal cord area to deliver a signal from the brain to a muscle that became disconnected following that injury. A donor nerve is taken from a nonessential uninjured muscle and transferred to provide a more critical function (Fig. 1). Because the nerve transfer procedure involves cutting and reattaching peripheral nerves, time is required to reinnervate and to allow the brain ...
15:31 < kanzure> ... to relearn how to use that muscle. Individual patient outcomes are subtle and variable and can take months to 1 year to measure; however, they can dramatically improve function and independence."
15:31 < kanzure> huh why do they have to cut out the whole nerve. that seems less good.
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15:36 < TMA> from what I recall from anatomy, the periferial nerves are very thin, -- cutting them lengthwise to obtain a fiber is beyond the ability of the surgeon
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15:39 < TMA> surgery is very imprecise in general :(
15:39 < mgin> can anyone explain this shit??? http://www.rifters.com/crawl/?p=6116
15:40 < mgin> "one out of ten hydrocephalus cases are so extreme that cerebrospinal fluid fills 95% of the cranium. Anyone whose brain fits into the remaining 5% should be nothing short of vegetative; yet apparently, fully half have IQs over 100."
15:40 < mgin> what the fuck??
15:40 < mgin> is this a hoax?
15:42 < archels> no, it's real
15:42 < archels> there might be deficiencies that are conveniently glanced over in the anectodal reports though
15:43 < archels> but in general, if things go wrong at an early enough ontological stage, the cortex is pretty resilient
15:43 < mgin> but i mean, it has to be false that a person could be totally normal, above average IQ, with only 5% of their brain matter?
15:44 < mgin> bizarre
15:44 < kanzure> amount of brain matter may not influence cognitive ability
15:45 < kanzure> iq was not created to measure brain volume
15:45 < mgin> implies that the calculations of ops/second required for a functional intelligence may be wildly overstated
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15:45 < mgin> ugh
15:45 < delinquentme> AV-groove similar to groove 109 etched in silicon using KOH inWaterastheetchanthasbeenshoWnbytransmission electron microscopy (TEM) to have “a rounded shape that has a radius of curvature of around 3 nm”
15:46 < delinquentme> any idea what KOH might be here?
15:46 < kanzure> same KOH as in semiconductor manufacturing
15:46 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/wiki/homecmos/wet-etch-recipes/
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15:47 < delinquentme> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potassium_hydroxide
15:48 < kuudes> iirc there was at least one popularly referred hydrocephalus blog post that was in fact fake, I should check this though
15:48 < kanzure> there was one claim about ct scanning not being sufficient, and that the brain mass was just hiding somewhere else
15:49 < mgin> makes much more sense
15:49 < mgin> doesn't past the stink test
15:49 < mgin> pass*
15:49 < kanzure> lotta people survive with half their brain missing
15:51 < kanzure> perhaps some of that mass is just for redundancy
15:52 < kanzure> or all of the regular neurons are still there, just more squished together and maybe slightly smaller or something
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15:59 < delinquentme> kanzure,  you linked the paper on tip recharging for diamond mechanosynthesis
16:00 < delinquentme> can I get a summary on why the tip needs to be recharged?
16:03 < kanzure> elastography shows increase in brain stiffness in hydrocephalus patients http://www.fluidsbarrierscns.com/content/pdf/2045-8118-12-S1-O38.pdf
16:03 < kanzure> delinquentme: probably electrons
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16:41 < delinquentme> what would be a method for loosly bonding the DNA backbone to something like an AFM tip ?
16:41 < delinquentme> https://www.google.com/search?q=bonding+DNA+to+AFM+tip&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
16:41 < kanzure> biotin, streptavidin, aptamers, antibodies, click chemistry, polymerization, ...
16:42 < kanzure> probably there's a surface tension method involving femtoliter amounts of water
16:50 < delinquentme> http://www.molecularassembler.com/Papers/PDMM/Slide34.GIF
16:50 < delinquentme> what does the rotation do here?
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16:51 < delinquentme> is this like particular molecules have lacking orbitals ... and by reorienting them you then get a change in the angular positions of particular bonds ... Thus letting it float free?
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16:59 < delinquentme> surface potential cycling
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17:35 < nmz787_i> maaku_: I farm the whole world for ideas that I'm keeping a trade-secret... idk if that is better/worse/same as delinquentme-and-the-patent-gang
17:35 < nmz787_i> delinquentme: if you want 'loose' coupling, just dry some DNA on the tip, it will stick... thanks to van der waals or whatever
17:36 < delinquentme> ????
17:36 < delinquentme> example research?
17:37 < delinquentme> nmz787_i,  ty for defense .
17:45 < nmz787_i> examples of what? drying DNA so it sticks?
17:45 < nmz787_i> idk, crime scene investigation of dried semen is research???
17:46 < nmz787_i> but more relevant... would be drying DNA on gold nano/micro beads to be shot ballistically into cells (gene gun)
17:47 < nmz787_i> delinquentme: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/diybio/r%C3%BCdiger-trojok-gene-gun.pdf'
17:47 < nmz787_i> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/diybio/r%C3%BCdiger-trojok-gene-gun.pdf
17:47 < nmz787_i> sorry I added a single-quote to the first link
17:48 < nmz787_i> "A eukaryotic plasmid coding for a cyan fluorescent protein fused to a nuclear localisation sequence was loaded onto 1µm small gold particles, using Calcliumchloride and Spermidin (a chemical substance also found in mammal sperm). 10µl of the DNA-ladden gold particles in an alcoholic solution were spread on a 4cm² plastic foil.(See protocoll below). The alcohol evaporated and the gold tagged foil was curled up and loaded into the a piece of a
17:48 < nmz787_i> rubber tube which then was stuck into Gene gun barrel (Pic.4), which was made from the tip of a pencil."
17:49 < nmz787_i> delinquentme: also, mechanical synthesis will likely require significantly more energy than enzymatic or syn-chemistry
17:50 < delinquentme> sure ... but why?
17:50 < nmz787_i> its like pushing two magnets of same-polarity together and hoping they're strong enough to flip one or the other's field... so they stick instead of repele
17:50 < delinquentme> I say " sure " because we have it in sheer mechanical actuator force
17:50 < nmz787_i> with enzymes, the enzyme will reduce the opposition through side-effects elsewhere on the molecule
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17:52 < delinquentme> nmz787_i,  but all of this is simply shifting electrons in and out of orbitals right?
17:53 < nmz787_i> so if the enzyme touches the DNA a few atoms away from the ligation site, it will probably effect a pull on those electrons... which create vacancies, which the other electrons nearby will enjoy filling... and the whole point is that eventually electrons from the tip of the molecule are pulled away enough (or forced onto enough) to allow the 'snapping together' to kind of just happen (proximity of the molecules matter, as the 'magnetism' of the
17:53 < nmz787_i> molecules can only travel so far before they won't attract each other)
17:53 < nmz787_i> delinquentme: yeah
17:53 < nmz787_i> it's kind of like picking a lock
17:53 < nmz787_i> you have to pull some level on the backside of the molecule, to get the electrons to fall back, so the tip is vulnerable
17:53 < nmz787_i> then once you violate the tip, you can put the electrons back and lock the tip down
17:54 < nmz787_i> i'm sure we could cook up some sexual innuendos around this
17:55 < delinquentme> im writing this verbatim into the patent
17:55 < delinquentme> lol
17:55 < delinquentme> for funsies.
17:55 < nmz787_i> so the enzymes really are mechanicosynthesis... but they also tickle the electrons so less forcing together is needed
17:57 < nmz787_i> you can probably liken this to temperature dependence of enzyme efficiency/througput/speed/product-flux
17:57 < delinquentme> I feel like either were incredibly fucking wrong
17:58 < delinquentme> or your like .. the first person who actually understands that .
17:58 < delinquentme> yes.
17:59 < delinquentme> also . there exist sates of DNA where one side has a severed backbone while the other side still has a contguous backboke
17:59 < delinquentme> backbone*
17:59 < nmz787_i> I think at least some of the molecular modelling/engineering people understand this
17:59 < nmz787_i> aren't those called nicks?
18:02 < delinquentme> bingo.
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18:06 < nmz787_i> huh, this is so obvious, but I never considered it http://www.gizmag.com/lab-in-a-needle-houston-methodist/39708/
18:06 < nmz787_i> .title
18:06 < yoleaux> "Lab in a needle" could streamline medical diagnoses
18:07 < nmz787_i> .title http://pubs.rsc.org/en/Content/ArticleLanding/2015/LC/c5lc00798d
18:07 < yoleaux> A lab-on-a-chip system integrating tissue sample preparation and multiplex RT-qPCR for gene expression analysis in point-of-care hepatotoxicity assessment - Lab on a Chip (RSC Publishing)
18:07 < nmz787_i> hmm, wait a second, that doesn't mention -in-needle
18:07 < nmz787_i> and what, they reference openPCR in the supplement
18:08 < nmz787_i> http://www.rsc.org/suppdata/c5/lc/c5lc00798d/c5lc00798d1.pdf
18:11 < nmz787_i> huh, and I found that link through something in my SPAM folder
18:12 < nmz787_i> .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3afEX8a2jPg
18:12 < yoleaux> NASA | Jupiter in 4k Ultra HD - YouTube
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18:18 < drethelin> did you guys see that alzheimer's fungal thing?
18:31 < kanzure> nope
18:35 < kanzure> .title https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10401344
18:35 < yoleaux> Different Brain Regions Are Infected with Fungi in Alzheimer’s Disease | Hacker News
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19:11 < kanzure> howdy jaboja
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20:46 < kanzure> "Gene expression during zombie ant biting behavior reflects the complexity underlying fungal parasitic behavioral manipulation" http://www.biomedcentral.com/content/pdf/s12864-015-1812-x.pdf
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21:39 < delinquentme> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_der_Waals_force
21:39 < delinquentme> The resulting van der Waals forces can be attractive or repulsive.[2]
21:39 < delinquentme> blah. I feel ignorant
21:41 < JayDugger> Does "Andre Wegner" ring a bell?
21:42 < JayDugger> Of "Authentise," a 3d printing shop out of Mountain View and NASA Ames.
21:43 < delinquentme> nah
21:43 < delinquentme> i dont know too many ppl at nasa though
21:43 < delinquentme> 3 ... maaaybe?
21:43 < JayDugger> Fair enough. Turns out I have a cousin who works at Authentise.
21:44 < JayDugger> I'll probably see him before year's end, and it would be nice to have something to say other than "Hi! haven't seen you since your Dad's funeral."
21:45 < JayDugger> My cousin's probably at their Utah office, come to think of it.
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23:45 -!- gene_hacker [~chatzilla@c-98-232-239-159.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
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--- Log closed Sat Oct 17 00:00:09 2015