--- Log opened Wed Oct 21 00:00:02 2015
--- Day changed Wed Oct 21 2015
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02:11 < fenn> MOF = metal organic framework, a type of easily tunable molecular sieve or catalyst bed (see also: zeolite)
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02:35 < fenn> there's a live action ghost in the shell movie scheduled for 2017 starring scarlett johansson as motoko kusanagi :\
02:38 < poppingtonic> ugh
02:55 < fenn> here's a spew of random images and video that are not related to the upcoming hollywood movie in any way: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CS64fU9upD8
02:55 < fenn> two of my favorite CG artists are listed as contributors (maciej kuciara and vitaly bulgarov)
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04:48 < kanzure> maaku: yeah there's really only solvespace and verbnurbs for open-source cad nurbs stuff. there's really no other options. brlcad only recenlty got nurbs, and their implementation is sorta spaghetti.... and they have been around for 30+ years.
04:51 < mosasaur> so what happened to the extropians, is this channel an outflow of it in some way?
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04:52 < kanzure> not related to the extropians in any official capacity
04:52 < kanzure> although i do have most of their data and backups....
04:52 < kanzure> extropians did not really value direct participation in technology development, although more than the kurzweilian version of transhumanism i guess.
04:53 < kanzure> extropians mailing list went really downhill over time, now just exists as extropy-chat with really terrible signal-noise ratio
04:54 < mosasaur> I recently discovered I might be an extropian, except for that I don't like singularitarians (anymore), Hanson, and academics opposing the system they derive their status from
04:55 < kanzure> alright.
04:55 < poppingtonic> I lurk on extropy-chat, and can confirm. There are very few active participants who actually do real-world hplus-related work.
04:55 < mosasaur> where is this extropy-chat?
04:56 < kanzure> lists.extropy.org or something
04:56 < kanzure> mosasaur: http://diyhpl.us/wiki/transhumanism
04:57 < kanzure> and http://diyhpl.us/wiki/hplusroadmap
04:59 < poppingtonic> Does anyone here use FitnessBlender-style bodybuilding routines?
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05:20 < chris_99> .title http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-34572462
05:20 < yoleaux> The scientists encouraging online piracy with a secret codeword - BBC News
05:22 < poppingtonic> hehe... paperbot, anyone?
05:24 < chris_99> awh where is paperbot
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05:50 < fenn> "So this crazy guy Philip Kennedy implanted his own cortex with electrodes for 3-4 months to record units from the speech motor cortex in response to phoneme production. Definitely sets a new bar for self-experimentation." his poster at SfN2015: https://twitter.com/c_mcgettigan/status/656212840093716480/photo/1 and his company: http://www.neuralsignals.com/
05:52 < chris_99> Wow!
05:59 < fenn> http://www.technologyreview.com/news/542616/first-gene-edited-dogs-reported-in-china/
06:01 < mosasaur> I already have trouble picking my teeth, correctly planting electrodes in my cortex seems undoable
06:02 < chris_99> haha
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06:12 < kanzure> what sort of changes would we have to make to get more earth-like planets to form over the next few hundred million years
06:12 < kanzure> not sure whether terraforming everything is easier than just influencing planet formation
06:14 < mosasaur> maybe give venus a moon
06:14 < fenn> philip kennedy was doing research on restoring speech with a locked-in patient, but the patient bumped the electronics and they had no budget to do the replacement surgery. they didn't meet the $20k-$85k goal so they did the replacement in belize, which apparently got dr. kennedy thinking about getting an implant of his own
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06:14 < kanzure> "Classification of intended phoneme production from chronic intra-cortical microelectrode recordings in speech motor cortex"
06:14 < kanzure> "Current BMIs for restoring communication can provide important capabilities via a typing process, but unfortunately they are only capable of slow communication rates. In the current study we use a novel approach to speech restoration in which we decode continuous auditory parameters for a real-time speech synthesizer from neuronal activity in motor cortex during attempted speech."
06:15 < fenn> how do you even paste that fast
06:15 < kanzure> jedi are real, han solo said so
06:16 < kanzure> yeah, real-time speech synthesis is a much better idea than the other 1 bit/minute brain-computer interfaces
06:17 < kanzure> but seems to only be useful for locked-in patients, because otherwise many ways to get voice data out of someone's head
06:17 < fenn> like speaking
06:17 < kanzure> right, right
06:17 < fenn> the audeo was cute
06:18 < fenn> .title http://www.technovelgy.com/ct/Science-Fiction-News.asp?NewsNum=1511
06:18 < yoleaux> Audeo Neckband Voiceless Phone Calls: Science Fiction in the News
06:19 < kanzure> what's the wpm
06:20 < Stskeeps> fenn: whatever happened to the audeo? too early for it's time?
06:20 < fenn> 9 of 10 startups fail for reasons completely unrelated to the idea
06:20 < Stskeeps> heh, good point
06:22 < kanzure> "Scientists in China say they are the first to use gene editing to produce customized dogs. They created a beagle with double the amount of muscle mass by deleting a gene called myostatin. [...] Liangxue Lai, a researcher with the Key Laboratory of Regenerative Biology at the Guangzhou Institutes of Biomedicine and Health. A different Chinese Institute, BGI, said in September it had begun selling miniature pigs, created via gene ...
06:22 < kanzure> ... editing, for $1,600 each as novelty pets. The dogs are being kept at the Guangzhou General Pharmaceutical Research Institute, which says on its website that it breeds more than 2,000 beagles a year for research. Last month, Duanqing Pei, a representative of the Chinese Academy of Sciences, highlighted Lai’s work as part of what he called a large Chinese effort to modify animals using CRISPR. The list of animals already engineered ...
06:22 < kanzure> ... using gene editing in China includes goats, rabbits, rats, and monkeys. Pei described the efforts as a national scientific priority and part of China’s effort to establish world-class research. Church said he also believed the alteration of dogs and other large animals could open a path to eventual gene editing of people. “Germline editing of pigs or dogs offers a line into it,” he said. “People might say, ‘Hey, it ...
06:22 < kanzure> ... works.’ ”"
06:22 < kanzure> "another Chinese team reported altering human embryos in the laboratory in an attempt to correct a genetic defect that causes beta-thalassemia"
06:23 < kanzure> "Generation of gene-target dogs using CRISPR/Cas9 system" doi:10.1093/jmcb/mjv061
06:23 < kanzure> hmm there's no page for the abstract? wtf
06:24 < kanzure> ah there we go, http://jmcb.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2015/10/12/jmcb.mjv061.extract
06:24 < kanzure> .. sort of.
06:24 < fenn> Stskeeps: you could try this number and see if someone answers: 217 4084085
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06:26 < fenn> btw if anyone missed it, http://www.nature.com/news/chinese-scientists-genetically-modify-human-embryos-1.17378
06:26 < fenn> from april 2015
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06:38 < fenn> lol bioethicists " I don't think that a woman should bear the burden of responsibility to evaluate the health risks of reproductive technologies to her child. This would be unfair to her. This is rather a task for oversight authorities in that field of medical practice."
06:38 < kanzure> i nominate captain hindsight
06:39 < fenn> (the statement was supporting a ban on the mitochondrial donor "three parent" technique)
06:41 < mosasaur> fenn: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/mutant-extra-muscular-dogs-created-by-chinese-scientists-a6701156.html
06:42 < fenn> mosasaur i just linked to that, is this something i should read in addition to the technology review article?
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06:42 < mosasaur> no sorry, I just joined and did not read all the logs
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06:58 < JayDugger> Good morning, everyone.
06:58 < eudoxia> good morning
07:04 < mosasaur> are any of you interested in changing world views, or is it just tech, and the expectation that things will work out accordingly to what tech we will have?
07:05 < fenn> the latter
07:05 < mosasaur> I was afraid of that
07:05 < fenn> you can always join zoltan istvan's presidential campaign of course
07:06 < fenn> the problem is that if you just make a bunch of magazine articles nothing actually happens
07:06 < Aurelius_afk> mosasaur : changing world views tends to do nothing but add another flavor to the list, or at best replace one--which is fine
07:07 < poppingtonic> It's hard enough changing the world-views of dedicated, erstwhile rational scientists who have spent most of their careers on a particular approach, when there are new developments. Try that for genpop.
07:09 < kanzure> most scientists don't need to have their "views" "changed". don't know what that's about.
07:09 < kanzure> mosasaur: again, a good description of this place can be found here: http://diyhpl.us/wiki/transhumanism and http://diyhpl.us/wiki/hplusroadmap
07:10 < fenn> once you can actually buy an anti-aging treatment all this ethical discussion crap will go out the window
07:10 < fenn> the UN will declare it a human right and people will leave countries where it is banned as if their life depended on it
07:10 < kanzure> you can buy cryopreservation and yet the bioethicists are still screaming at everyone
07:11 < mosasaur> kanzure: I am interested in the topic, but, if allowed, I will also ask for directions to groups of similar minded people
07:11 < fenn> i'm actually not sure what they have to say about cryo
07:11 < kanzure> fenn: gracefulness of dead bodies, violation of human rights to process deceased tissue, that sort of stuff. boring bullshit.
07:12 < kanzure> mosasaur: well if you are not interested in tech development, #lesswrong might be more your style.
07:12 < fenn> huh?
07:12 < Aurelius_afk> mosasaur : what world views do you want to change
07:12 < kanzure> fenn: most of the complaints from "ethicists" about cryonics are related to "sanctity of the human body" or something.
07:12 < fenn> but that's not ethics at all
07:12 < Aurelius_afk> feel free to pm, I guess
07:12 < poppingtonic> Actually, I've changed my mind on that.
07:12 < kanzure> fenn: facts rarely matter when talking to ethicists
07:13 < kanzure> "your fact is unethical!!one"
07:13 < fenn> i wonder how much of that is just tumblr activism
07:13 < kanzure> oh for cryonics? almost none at the moment.
07:13 < kanzure> entirely none, afaik
07:13 < fenn> it probably pisses off actual ethicists just as much
07:14 < fenn> i mean the "your fact is unethical!!" sort of thing
07:14 < kanzure> see mike darwin post-traumatic stress syndrome re: alcor vs. mainstream media in late 90s
07:14 < mosasaur> kanzure: I am interested in tech development, I just think without community it won't go far
07:14 < kanzure> mosasaur: hplusroadmap is community
07:15 < poppingtonic> ^
07:15 < poppingtonic> .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryoqtB6H5nw
07:15 < yoleaux> David Brin on "So you want to make gods. Now why would that bother anybody?" - YouTube
07:15 < kanzure> ugh david brin
07:16 < mosasaur> community requires somewhat coherent worldviews
07:16 < kanzure> nonsense
07:16 < poppingtonic> mosasaur, one view from David Brin
07:16 < kanzure> david brin is way too politicized for my taste. avoid.
07:16 < poppingtonic> kanzure, what's wrong with him?
07:16 < kanzure> politics
07:17 < fenn> wtf david brin studed plasma physics under hannes alfven?
07:17 < kanzure> every time i stumble into david brin on the interwebs it's always because he's politicizing some faction of hatemongers or some shit
07:18 < kanzure> total waste of time
07:18 < poppingtonic> have you watched that talk in particular?
07:18 < kanzure> nope
07:20 < kanzure> "fanatic contrarian" ugh
07:20 < poppingtonic> I don't remember anything with a political force-field of "ugh" from it..
07:20 < kanzure> this video is a waste of your time
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07:21 < kanzure> .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JX2MdZX6Bys
07:21 < yoleaux> Ron Vale (UCSF) Part 1: Introduction to Motor Proteins - YouTube
07:22 < mosasaur> Aurelius_afk: I don't want to change world views, I am just looking for like minded people, maybe what the extropians were before they got sidetracked or whatever by lesswrong and overcoming bias type of ideas
07:22 < kanzure> there, recalibrate yourself with that motor protein video instead
07:22 < kanzure> mosasaur: extropians never really wanted to directly work on projects. otherwise they would have.
07:22 < Aurelius_afk> mosasaur : /r/futurology
07:22 < kanzure> extropy-chat didn't get sidetracked by lesswrong. extropians fizzled out before lesswrong.
07:22 < poppingtonic> hmmm..
07:22 < poppingtonic> neat
07:23 < mosasaur> Aurelius_afk: I read /r/futurology
07:23 < kanzure> well stop doing that
07:23 < kanzure> reddit is one of the terrible cancers of our time
07:23 < mosasaur> not all of reddit
07:23 < kanzure> #notallreddit
07:24 < kanzure> yeah, all of reddit. i have looked at tens of thousands of subreddits. they all suck.
07:25 < Aurelius_afk> I like /r/drama and /r/futurology
07:25 < Aurelius_afk> err
07:25 < Aurelius_afk> /r/relationships
07:25 < kanzure> troll harder
07:25 < Aurelius_afk> /r/futurology is meh, though I modded it way back after it just started
07:26 < Aurelius_afk> kanzure : /r/drama is funny >_>
07:26 < kanzure> /r/relationships is the worst advice i have ever seen
07:26 < atomical> /r/nootropics
07:26 < kanzure> /r/nootropics is worse than longecity's forums
07:33 < mosasaur> I read Brin's blog mainly for the locumranch comments
07:37 < kanzure> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10424276
07:37 < kanzure> "You need to "force" people to review their papers, correct mistakes, and in a sense establish what is worth other people time. Journal editors and reviwers screw up all the time, no doubt, but the burden of proof is on those arguing that "drop it on arxiv, let the review count do the scoring" is a better system."
07:37 < kanzure> yes... let's setup forced peer review torture camps for preprints. sure. that'll work.
07:44 < fenn> does arxiv even have any sort of "review count"?
07:44 < kanzure> http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/21/business/23andme-will-resume-giving-users-health-data.html
07:44 < kanzure> "after nearly two years, 23andMe is announcing on Wednesday that it will begin providing customers with health information again, though much less than before and with FDA approval"
07:45 < kanzure> "There will be information on 36 diseases," gah so basically nothing
07:45 < fenn> wow that's terrible
07:45 < kanzure> "continued to offer information on ancestry and nonmedical traits such as eye color, ear wax composition and lactose intolerance. But the business still grew. This year it surpassed one million users"
07:46 < fenn> do they still give you the SNP data?
07:48 < kanzure> yes https://www.23andme.com/you/download/
07:48 < kanzure> "
07:48 < kanzure> "The raw data provided by 23andMe is an advanced view of all the uninterpreted raw genotype data, including data that is not used in 23andMe reports. This data has undergone a general quality review however only a subset of markers have been individually validated for accuracy. As such, the data from 23andMe's Browse Raw Data feature is suitable only for research, educational, and informational use and not for medical or other use."
07:48 < kanzure> from http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:vttGeP3WhrIJ:https://customercare.23andme.com/hc/en-us/articles/202907670-Accessing-your-Raw-Data+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
07:58 < atomical> kanzure: why? just because everyone is nuts?
07:59 < kanzure> what are you asking about?
07:59 < atomical> your comment on /r/nootropics
08:01 < kanzure> better content from longecity
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08:09 < mosasaur> if the net works like a global brain, the idea of localized content itself is wrong: http://nautil.us/issue/15/turbulence/your-brain-is-on-the-brink-of-chaos
08:10 < kanzure> brain doesn't work like the internet
08:11 < mosasaur> depends on whether you see the memes or the urls
08:13 < mosasaur> like before, I added a link to fenn's idea without realizing he already posted a different link to the same
08:15 < kanzure> do you know any neuroscience
08:15 < mosasaur> from my point of view I added something related, but probably the chinese geneticist meme pops up in different places
08:16 < kanzure> i think you should learn some neuroscience, neurophysiology, neuroanatomy before comparing the interwebs to a brain
08:16 < mosasaur> kanzure: I studied social psychology for 11 years, so yes, but indirectly
08:17 < kanzure> psychology often has no clue about actual implementation of brain matter; entire existence of "folk psychology" is evidence of this.
08:17 < JayDugger> Kanzure has it right about Brin. I don't know when he joined the tin foil hat crowd, but I stopped reading him when he started ranting on his blog about G. W. Bush "purging" US military officers.
08:17 < kanzure> i don't like being right about that sort of thing
08:17 < kanzure> would prefer to have more scifi authors
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08:19 < JayDugger> Get used to it. The best part of such cynicism happens when people act in unexpected ways. Expecting the worst means decent behavior comes as a delightful surprise.
08:20 < JayDugger> I'd prefer Brin stick to SF, but I lacked the stomach to read anything he wrote after Kiln People.
08:23 < kanzure> "We recently put out a call on Facebook for old electronics over here in Bangkok, so that we can being building up our DIYbio lab...the response has been great, but we've also been offered a load of old TVs (all sorts). Does anyone have any good suggestions on what we can do with them, besides stripping them down and extracting gold from the components?"
08:23 < kanzure> aquariums, i guess
08:25 < JayDugger> Umm...I think CRT coatings might poison fish. Old refrigerators would probably work better.
08:25 < kanzure> python-based hdl/vlsi toolkit thingy http://m-labs.hk/gateware.html
08:25 < poppingtonic> well, they technically are tabletop particle accelerators
08:25 < kanzure> https://github.com/m-labs/migen
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08:27 < kanzure> yikes their "emit_verilog" functons.... geeze. https://github.com/m-labs/migen/blob/f4c5197047e77d771d58b3da912c19ed44310e69/migen/fhdl/specials.py#L238
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08:33 < poppingtonic> it's actually line 246
08:33 < CaptHindsight> the electron guns in the CRT's could be useful
08:33 < poppingtonic> whoa that's dirty code, yo.
08:34 < poppingtonic> why such big function tho?
08:34 < CaptHindsight> if the high voltage protection is disabled they are also a cheap source of X-rays
08:35 < poppingtonic> Cheap in energy efficiency?
08:35 < CaptHindsight> cheap since they are donated TV's
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08:38 < CaptHindsight> stack the TV's and make a retro video wall
08:47 < poppingtonic> well, maybe free TVs used for X-rays == much higher electricity bill, which is funny in a cheap-is-expensive kind of way
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09:02 < CaptHindsight> custom tailored pets, now that's a business
09:07 < CaptHindsight> http://www.genpets.com/index.php just add water?
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09:29 < drethelin> myostatin deletion seems really interesting
09:29 < drethelin> not for dogs though
09:29 < drethelin> fuck that
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09:31 < kanzure> yashgaroth was working on something like that for human use, but decided to do another direction (follistatin?)
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09:32 < drethelin> hisssssss
09:38 < maaku> someone on here linked to reddit.com/r/controlproblem
09:39 < maaku> what a weird group. anyone who knows a sociologist should get them to study this phenomenon
09:41 < kanzure> that's basically a direct view into the mental preoccupation of all singinst employees and associates
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09:48 < drethelin> what would a sociologist say about THIS group?
09:48 < drethelin> trick question: no one cares
09:48 < drethelin> sociology is garbage
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09:55 < Aurelius_Lunch> ^
09:57 < maaku> kanzure: wouldn't t-splines be preferable?
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09:58 < Aurelius_Lunch> https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/1921907_935725036495717_4930202453326781795_n.jpg?oh=34a66b2adc7476b7db86188490ffc1d2&oe=56CB2E21 RPI cutting humanities budget
10:02 < maaku> ah fucking patents that's why -- http://www.google.com/patents/US7274364
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10:07 < CaptHindsight> drethelin: that you have to try harder to properly engineer this group
10:08 < drethelin> I'm not sure what that means
10:08 < kanzure> they would probably just say "incomprehensible" and "lots of mumbling, something about a dumb molecule found in 1950s"
10:10 < mosasaur> a) "too big to fail" problems often turn out to be scams that move money into the hands of the powerful, b) people like to redefine problems in such a way that they match their capacities (math in case of the current batch of singularitarians)
10:11 < drethelin> by the hands of the powerful you mean eliezer yudkowsky?
10:12 < mosasaur> drethelin: I was referring to things like the recent banking crisis, and the climate chance thing that is on the horizon
10:13 < mosasaur> change
10:14 < drethelin> yeah I full expect that if AI risk becomes a big enough issue to draw the kind of money that climate change does much of it will be very corrupt
10:14 < mosasaur> http://www.amazon.com/The-Shock-Doctrine-Disaster-Capitalism/dp/0312427999
10:15 < kanzure> mosasaur: btw what are your skillz?
10:15 < mosasaur> kanzure: python programmer
10:15 < kanzure> subject area?
10:16 < nmz787_i> /me I can take my bike off of sweet jumps
10:17 < mosasaur> I used to do zope, plone, django nowadays mostly hobby and I'm all over the place, except I hate javascript
10:17 < kanzure> ok, web applications stuff
10:18 < kanzure> javascript hatred is good. but more or less hate for emcascript6?
10:18 < mosasaur> no, that used to be the case, nowadays without js you're unemployable
10:19 < mosasaur> I don't do web page stuff anymore, I write scripts for a hobby now
10:20 < kanzure> ::shrug:: fair enough
10:20 < kanzure> here is a pile of python that could use some love: https://github.com/kanzure/nanoengineer
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10:24 < maaku> or cadnano
10:24 < kanzure> cadnano has a maintainer
10:24 < kanzure> and only does dna
10:26 < nmz787_i> http://time.com/3013603/vintage-computer-ads/photo/
10:27 < nmz787_i> hahaha, a floppy disk with flaming exhaust pipes
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10:31 < mosasaur> kanzure: I'm currently mostly writing stuff to help myself. Like I read a blog and turn it into an NNTP feed. But then I changed my mind (because no one else cared for it) and turned it into a comment tree viewer (no NNTP).
10:34 -!- Aurelius_Lunch is now known as Aurelius_Work
10:47 < kanzure> are you lorin
10:47 < kanzure> didn't we meet in february 2010
10:50 < mosasaur> not me
10:50 < kanzure> maybe different mosasaur
10:50 < mosasaur> there is only 1
10:51 < mosasaur> at least on freenode
10:51 < nmz787_i> .py import this
10:51 < yoleaux> 404 Not FoundError: Not Found
The requested URL /py/import%20this was not found on this server.
10:52 < nmz787_i> .py 'import this'
10:52 < yoleaux> 404 Not FoundError: Not Found
The requested URL /py/'import%20this' was not found on this server.
10:52 < nmz787_i> umm, I didn' break it, I swear!
10:52 < chris_99> tut tut ;)
10:54 < kanzure> dpk: ^
10:55 < mosasaur> .py print "hello world"
10:55 < yoleaux> 404 Not FoundError: Not Found
The requested URL /py/print%20%22hello%20world%22 was not found on this server.
11:02 < mosasaur> .py 1
11:02 < yoleaux> 404 Not FoundError: Not Found
The requested URL /py/1 was not found on this server.
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11:10 < nmz787_i> .py what is a good not-found error for me website?
11:10 < yoleaux> 404 Not FoundError: Not Found
The requested URL /py/what%20is%20a%20good%20not-found%20error%20for%20me%20website%3F was not found on this server.
11:10 < nmz787_i> ah, cheers .py and/or yoleaux!
11:10 < kanzure> huh?
11:10 < kanzure> it's broken. stop trying.
11:10 < kanzure> and you want ".g" for searching.
11:11 < nmz787_i> nah, it was a joke
11:11 < nmz787_i> I asked it for an error message, and it provided!
11:14 < chris_99> nmz787_i, i'm currently ordering some of those ADCs+SSOP breakout for them. Going to try and knock up something with an STM32 hopefully, as that's what i know best
11:16 < nmz787_i> chris_99: really I can send you a PCB and some chips... I might or might not have a propeller
11:16 < nmz787_i> at least you could use the analog section of the PCB
11:16 < nsh> .t http://science.slashdot.org/story/15/10/21/1327203/how-scientists-are-circumventing-journal-paywalls
11:16 < yoleaux> nsh: Sorry, I don't know what timezone that is. If in doubt, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tz_database_time_zones for a list of options.
11:16 < nsh> .title http://science.slashdot.org/story/15/10/21/1327203/how-scientists-are-circumventing-journal-paywalls
11:16 < yoleaux> How Scientists Are Circumventing Journal Paywalls - Slashdot
11:16 < nsh> --
11:16 < nsh> Some academics are fighting back against publishers of academic journals by providing copies of papers to researchers who don't have access. For some reason, the publishers aren't happy! Cognitive scientist Andrea Kuszewski said, "Basically you tweet out a link to the paper that you need, with the hashtag and then your email address. And someone will respond to your email and send it to you." That beg
11:16 < nsh> ins the conversation, and then the scientists cover their tracks: "Once contact is made, all subsequent conversation is kept off of social media — instead, scientists correspond via email. The original tweet is deleted, so there's no public record of the paper changing hands. Kuszewski and others say the method is necessary to get up-to-date research in the hands of academics from developing countri
11:16 < nsh> es, and her and other scientists say they consider the pirating 'civil disobedience' against a system that includes for-profit publishing companies."
11:17 < nsh> --
11:17 < nsh> someone should submit a draft proposal to the IETF for this protocol
11:18 < kanzure> on faebook, andrea implicated me (as well as herself) for creation of icanhazpdf hashtag :-/
11:18 < nmz787_i> lol
11:18 < drethelin> " Dear Misha,
11:18 < drethelin> Today marks a great milestone in the history of personal genetics. I am thrilled to let you know that 23andMe is now the first and only genetic service available directly to you that includes reports that meet FDA standards. "
11:18 < nmz787_i> etch that into a gravestone or QR code for your cryo-vessel "I was purported to create #icanhazpdf"
11:18 < chris_99> nmz787_i, how do you program the proppellers though?
11:18 < chris_99> i mean electronically
11:18 < kanzure> academic institutionalized science is not going to make progress on the publishing problem until their "career metrics" stuff is solved, until then these other issues will continue to appear
11:19 < nmz787_i> chris_99: super easy, basically like arduino... one file to download and you plug in a serial converter and youre done
11:19 < nmz787_i> chris_99: just USB to serial converter is all
11:19 < chris_99> aha cool
11:19 < kanzure> *facebook
11:20 < nmz787_i> chris_99: the main reason to use the propeller is because you can bit bang the CCD protocol with no worries of doing other stuff in-between signalling the CCD... which add non-determinism or jitter
11:20 < nmz787_i> (well you don't want non-deterministic or deterministic jitter, period)
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11:20 < chris_99> yeah, that does make sense
11:21 < chris_99> i'll do some reading on them
11:21 < nmz787_i> I tried doing the CCD protocol with timers and interrupts to change the timers, but a state machine in assembly was easier in the end
11:21 < nmz787_i> the only thing would be that the code might need tweaked if you're using a different system clock, I think I wrote the code with an 80MHz clock, or maybe it was 96MHz
11:22 < nmz787_i> but that would just be changing the NOPs I think
11:22 < chris_99> mmm
11:22 < nmz787_i> do you have a scope or logic analyzer?
11:22 < chris_99> i've done VGA timing signals before which was fun heh
11:22 < chris_99> yeah i do
11:22 < nmz787_i> you'll need one regardless of the CPU to debug
11:22 < chris_99> mmm
11:22 < nmz787_i> I used a 2-channel with external trigger line, so sort of 2.5 channels
11:23 < chris_99> i've got the cheapest rigol 2-channel one
11:23 < chris_99> the one that can be hacked to 100Mhz
11:23 < nmz787_i> but it would have been a bit more convenient with a 4 channel, as I recall (this use case was actually why I ended up buying a 4 channel)
11:23 < nmz787_i> ah yeah, that's the one I was using
11:23 < nmz787_i> has the trigger BNC on the back
11:24 < chris_99> i'm just wondering, theres some kind of MCU that sort of has something slightly similar to an FPGA
11:24 < chris_99> i forget the name now
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11:25 < nmz787_i> yeah there are some multicore ARM chips
11:25 < nmz787_i> there are also some with FPGA like logic
11:25 < chris_99> yeah im thinking something that takes VHDL
11:25 < nmz787_i> but they're all going to be as much work to get up and running, as it would take to write the code for the ADC
11:26 < nmz787_i> i.e. none are that easy/quick to jump into
11:26 < nmz787_i> the PSOC chips might do it, I can't remember
11:27 < chris_99> thats it!
11:29 < chris_99> i was thinking FPGAs make the timing thing a hell of a lot simpler
11:29 < chris_99> rather than having to work out exactly how many instructions you need
11:31 < nmz787_i> yeah quite possibly, I mean, from all I know it seems like that would be the case
11:32 < nmz787_i> but I don't have any experience with FPGAs, though I've gotten one to blink an LED once using a python script
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11:39 < chris_99> yeah i don't have much experience with them either, but a VGA example i got for my board looked really nice
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12:24 < kanzure> hm i have not yet reconciled cryonics things with ken hayworth plastination preferences
12:25 < kanzure> plastination wont be helpful for near-term resuscitation afaik
12:26 < justanotheruser> https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn28370-carbon-nanotubes-found-in-childrens-lungs-for-the-first-time/
12:27 < kanzure> so you're saying if we get them to wheeze enough that they will build us a space tether?
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12:31 < justanotheruser> an attempt to replace paperbot http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-34572462
12:32 < kanzure> justanotheruser: scroll up in logs http://gnusha.org/logs/2015-10-21.log
12:32 < justanotheruser> I'm so unoriginal :D
12:35 < kanzure> they got elbakyan's name wrong
12:35 < kanzure> btw i think she used to hang out in here
12:35 < kanzure> she is very transhumanist
12:35 < kanzure> well, maybe not hang, but she was around at least once or twice
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13:01 < kanzure> http://blogs.plos.org/collections/open-source-toolkit-hardware/
13:01 < kanzure> http://www.open-ephys.org/
13:01 < kanzure> gamma ray detector i guess http://cosmicpi.org/?page_id=6
13:03 < kanzure> their list http://collections.plos.org/open-source-toolkit-hardware
13:05 < kanzure> picospritzer http://openeuroscience.com/hardware-projects/open-source-picospritzer/
13:06 < kanzure> syringe pumps http://openeuroscience.com/hardware-projects/wetware/916-2/open-syringe-pump-2/ and adrian bowyer's(? might be a different one) http://openeuroscience.com/hardware-projects/wetware/916-2/open-source-syringe-pump/
13:06 < kanzure> use of raspberry pi suggests that it is not adrian bowyer's, nevermind
13:06 < kanzure> http://openeuroscience.com/hardware-projects/human-brain-interactors/open-near-infrared-spectroscopy/
13:07 < kanzure> neurophysiology-specific pulse generator thingy http://openeuroscience.com/hardware-projects/optogenetics/pulse-pal/
13:07 < kanzure> http://toychest.ai.uni-bremen.de/wiki/projects:fingertip#fingertip_laser_sensor
13:09 < kanzure> stents because patent reasons otherwise https://github.com/cbonsig/open-stent
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13:10 < kanzure> raman spectrometer http://hackaday.io/project/1279
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13:12 < kanzure> http://www.appropedia.org/Tekla_Lab_open_source_scientific_hardware_gallery_2
13:12 < kanzure> been a few years since i have checked appropedia, but those were edits from 2014 so not bad
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13:43 < nmz787_i> kanzure: the stupid thing about that project is how much time and effort they invested in the case and industrial design before actually proving the hardware
13:44 < poppingtonic> That Ron Vale lecture was one helluva recalibration.
13:44 < nmz787_i> they also used the same CCD that the openSpectrometer uses, but didn't really invest much into analog design for good signal integrity
13:44 < chris_99> nmz787_i, oh interesting, did they use the same ADC too
13:46 < nmz787_i> no
13:46 < nmz787_i> they used an onboard ADC i believe
13:46 < nmz787_i> and maybe were throwing away some pixels, I can't remember
13:46 < nmz787_i> the person wasn't very engaging when I offered help
13:51 < nmz787_i> ben krasnow got MUCH further than that project did, in just a single youtube video
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13:52 < chris_99> heh
13:53 < chris_99> krasnow is awesome!
13:57 < delinquentme> ^^^
13:57 < delinquentme> true
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14:12 < delinquentme> http://imgur.com/CtDKZJf tunneling current ... highest at what point??
14:13 < delinquentme> DNA is in cross-section ... and extends forwards and backwards in the z-axis
14:17 < poppingtonic> .title http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK92013/
14:17 < yoleaux> In Vivo Assay Guidelines - Assay Guidance Manual - NCBI Bookshelf
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15:03 < chris_99> nmz787_i, http://www.analog.com/en/products/audio-video/cameracamcorder-analog-front-ends/ad9970.html#product-overview
15:03 < chris_99> alas it's only 14bit, i'm looking for a 16bit one
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15:12 < kanzure> win 5
15:13 < kanzure> fjoafdjoifewqr
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15:19 < kanzure> .title https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10426112
15:19 < yoleaux> Teen Who Hacked CIA Director’s Email Tells How He Did It | Hacker News
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15:36 < delinquentme> afdfd
15:37 < nmz787_i> delinquentme: have you heard that at least one person thinks DNA is not natively a helix in-vivo?
15:38 < nmz787_i> this person also thinks this is a big reason we haven't progressed as much as was thought like 50 years ago
15:38 < delinquentme> I think its probably in a great many states ... and certainly anything being transcribed isnt
15:38 < delinquentme> also topioisomerase is a crazy molecule
15:39 < delinquentme> nmz787 did you see the image I posted w the question on tunneling?
15:40 < nmz787_i> i saw some pencil drawing, but it didn't seem associated with a question
15:43 < delinquentme> Ah. Yeah. How would you rank the observed tunneling current at each of the poins shown: http://imgur.com/CtDKZJf
15:44 < nmz787_i> where are the electrodes?
15:46 < delinquentme> the tip would be at each of those points
15:46 < nmz787_i> and the substrate is the other electrode?
15:46 < delinquentme> and the substrate is connected to the measurement circuit
15:46 < delinquentme> yeap!
15:46 < nmz787_i> and this is in electrolyte, air, vacuum?
15:46 < nmz787_i> dielectric liquid?
15:48 < nmz787_i> I don't know 'what' the current will be at those points, but it will basically depend on how different the matter between the electrodes was from the DNA, in terms of dielectric strength, I guess
15:48 < nmz787_i> so if the liquid was not very conductive, I'd expect more current where the DNA is
15:54 < nmz787_i> haha, linked from the last imgur was this gif of trolling cats: http://imgur.com/gallery/ggQUrJ9
16:06 < mgin> lol
16:06 < mgin> love that gid
16:06 < mgin> gif*
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18:17 < kanzure> .wik gorilla grodd
18:17 < yoleaux> "Gorilla Grodd is a fictional supervillain appearing in DC Comics, primarily as an enemy of The Flash." — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gorilla_Grodd
18:17 < kanzure> "Gorilla Grodd is a hyper-intelligent telepathic gorilla with the power to control the minds of others."
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20:12 < kanzure> beep
20:15 < nmz787_i> boop
20:21 < nmz787_i> delinquentme: actually, if the liquid wasn't conductive, and the DNA is also not very conductive (I know it has semiconductor properties), then realistically you probably wouldn't see any current... so you'd need to test impedance instead
20:22 < nmz787_i> treat it like a capacitor that you're trying to determine the capacitance of
20:22 < nmz787_i> err, well maybe not like a capacitor
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20:28 < nmz787_i> delinquentme: see these results: https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=dna+semiconductor+esther+conwell
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20:46 < kanzure> resistance to flash freezing would require perpetual storage of lots of energy ahead of flash freeze events
20:46 < kanzure> bad if accessed too early
20:48 < kanzure> also: when doing iterative selection on mice for psychometric test result performance, also select for ability of mice to distinguish between brains that are more or less likely to do even better on performance tests. this adds a neural feedback component to the strategy.
20:50 < kanzure> (like based on visual imagery of brain scans or something)
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21:31 < delinquentme> nmz787_i, I wonder how they image it at all though if its non-conductive or even semiconductive
21:31 < delinquentme> from what I can tell none of the research suggests its bandgap is being addressed
21:32 < delinquentme> emailed you a pdf nmz787
22:06 < nmz787_i> delinquentme: depends on how you image it
22:06 < nmz787_i> delinquentme: xrays are uncharged for example
22:07 < nmz787_i> then there's afm, tip-enhanced raman, stm...etc
22:07 < nmz787_i> not to mention electrons in various configurations
22:09 < nmz787_i> delinquentme: recently I was reading about cryo EM tomography
22:10 < nmz787_i> specifically for DNA
22:16 < nmz787_i> delinquentme: that paper uses dielelectric properties basically, the tip has a charge, and if that charge dissipates or not is sensed, and the difference is seen as the height in the case of (relatively) pure DNA
22:17 < nmz787_i> relative to a cell (they used DNA + ammonium acetate)
22:18 < nmz787_i> so artifacts in the image may actually be chemical differeneces, not just topological
22:18 < delinquentme> At the molecular scale all materials become conducting.
22:18 < delinquentme> bruh?
22:19 < delinquentme> i just got this in an email from someone whos solid w STM / AFM imaging
22:19 < nmz787_i> well their conductance still depends on the molecular structure
22:28 < delinquentme> so say I have a 512 x 512 sampling density ... I want my raster scan to detect DNA of ~23angstrom
22:29 < delinquentme> whats the maximum distance I can get between sampling points ... and still detect the DNA?
22:37 < nmz787> wouldn't it be just under 23?
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23:12 < delinquentme> nmz787, not 100% sure
23:12 < delinquentme> also depends where in the strand were talking
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--- Log closed Thu Oct 22 00:00:03 2015