--- Log opened Fri Oct 30 00:00:11 2015 00:43 -!- PatrickRobotham [uid18270@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zaexwkvywwvsickp] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 00:59 -!- sandeepkr [~sandeepkr@111.235.64.4] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:07 -!- sandeepkr [~sandeepkr@111.235.64.4] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:18 -!- FourFire [~FourFire@185.7.192.138] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:44 -!- lake_ [~lake_@216.155.144.251] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:52 -!- FourFire [~FourFire@185.7.192.138] has left ##hplusroadmap ["Leaving"] 01:58 -!- lake_ [~lake_@59-186-128-104-static.reverse.queryfoundry.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:36 -!- lake_ [~lake_@59-186-128-104-static.reverse.queryfoundry.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 02:52 -!- lake_ [~lake_@59-186-128-104-static.reverse.queryfoundry.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:52 -!- sandeepkr [~sandeepkr@111.235.64.4] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:18 -!- Madplatypus [uid19957@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zbgxgwiwgtptiapl] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 03:33 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bucpyngnsthxfguk] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:49 -!- PatrickRobotham [uid18270@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cjlyntxwbhyuwrfo] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:03 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:11 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:29 -!- mosasaur [~mosasaur@unaffiliated/mosasaur] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:07 < kanzure> .g site:youtube.com robots getting blowed up 05:07 < yoleaux> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3cI3l0F25Y 05:26 < kanzure> .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDO09EVFSmg 05:26 < yoleaux> Nick Szabo speaks at Bitcoin Investor (Las Vegas) 2015-10-29 - YouTube 05:26 < kanzure> he is real 05:38 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r167-56-133-226.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:43 -!- atomical [~atomical@50.247.130.97] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:50 < kanzure> eudoxia: sup 05:51 < eudoxia> nothing of note really 05:53 < kanzure> do you have magical list of awesome molecular machines that should be made at day one of having working nanofactory? 05:53 < eudoxia> unfortunately no 05:56 < mosasaur> item 1: "make a copy". The end. 05:56 < kanzure> congrats you just grey gooed the whole galaxy 05:59 < mosasaur> I knew there should be an if clause there somewhere 06:13 < kanzure> "You know Myra, some people might think you're cute. But me, I think you're one very large baked potato." 06:21 -!- mosasaur [~mosasaur@unaffiliated/mosasaur] has left ##hplusroadmap [] 06:23 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bucpyngnsthxfguk] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 06:31 -!- jenelizabeth [~jenelizab@cpc76802-brmb10-2-0-cust399.1-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 06:32 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:33 -!- PatrickRobotham [uid18270@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cjlyntxwbhyuwrfo] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 06:34 -!- jaboja [~jaboja@eru162.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:47 -!- sandeepkr [~sandeepkr@111.235.64.4] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:49 -!- drewbot [~cinch@ec2-54-158-89-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:49 -!- drewbot [~cinch@ec2-50-16-15-201.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:54 < chris_99> http://www.dolomite-microfluidics.com/webshop/fluidic_factory looks kind of interesting 07:19 < JayDugger> kanzure, didn't you meet Szabo in Montreal? I thought he spoke there too. 07:19 -!- jaboja [~jaboja@eru162.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:23 < kanzure> nope 07:33 < JayDugger> No to both, right? 07:35 < kanzure> yes 07:37 -!- drethelin [~drethelin@24-241-226-112.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:37 < JayDugger> Hm...I'll guess Szabo was the special guest speaker at Bitcoin Investor. 07:39 -!- _hanhart [~hanhart@static.101.25.4.46.clients.your-server.de] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:40 < JayDugger> Yup. I take three hours off to do housework and I miss all this. Three cheers for scroll bar! 07:41 < kanzure> some sort of "30 years of this crap?" event at media lab http://www.media.mit.edu/events/medialabtalk/ 07:50 -!- _hanhart [~hanhart@static.101.25.4.46.clients.your-server.de] has quit [K-Lined] 07:56 -!- jenelizabeth [~jenelizab@cpc76802-brmb10-2-0-cust399.1-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:14 < maaku> do you have magical list of awesome molecular machines that should be made at day one of having working nanofactory?" <-- a computer 08:14 < maaku> specifically, a trillion-core reversible classical computer, and a thousands-of-qubits NV-diamond quantum computer 08:17 < maaku> then we can really do some brute-force engineering of whatever else you want 08:21 < kanzure> i mean simpler molecular machines :-) 08:21 < kanzure> like "here's a series of small parts that would be very useful" 08:23 -!- Darius [~quassel@207.251.103.46] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:24 < kanzure> ISO IEC JTC 1 SC 22 WG 14 ISO IEC 9899:1999, Programming languages -- C http://croco.freeonsciencelibraryguide.com/view.php?id=506751 08:30 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r167-56-133-226.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:53 < maaku> kanzure: my interest in building an 'artificial engineer' is specifically to enable immediate production of complex but repetative designs like such as logic gates for a computer, as soon as basic positional synthesis is available 08:53 < maaku> or to hasten the availability of that tech if possible 09:13 -!- sandeepkr [~sandeepkr@111.235.64.4] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:45 -!- Burnin8 [~Burn@pool-74-96-98-64.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:48 -!- nmz787_i [~ntmccork@192.55.54.38] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:52 -!- nmz787_i1 [~ntmccork@192.55.54.42] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:53 -!- nmz787_i [~ntmccork@192.55.54.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:59 < kanzure> looks like singinst raised at least $500k in donations https://intelligence.org/2015/07/17/miris-2015-summer-fundraiser/ 10:00 < kanzure> mostly linking to that for the snoops on whatsups 10:00 < nmz787_i1> .title http://mymochii.com/ 10:00 < yoleaux> Mochii Product Site 10:00 < nmz787_i1> 'Meet mochii, the world’s smallest production electron microscope.' 10:03 < chris_99> ooh 10:03 < chris_99> how much is it 10:07 < nmz787_i1> they don't say, and I can't remember what the guy said at the conference 10:07 < nmz787_i1> but they only had a mockup at the conference, with a 'virtual demo' 10:07 < chris_99> ah 10:07 < nmz787_i1> so who knows, maybe they're faking 10:08 < chris_99> heh 10:10 -!- Darius [~quassel@207.251.103.46] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 10:12 -!- delinquentme [~delinquen@74.61.157.78] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:22 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bcpmxpqurinczogg] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:44 -!- Burninate [~Burn@pool-74-96-98-64.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:01 < kanzure> 10:38 <+jcowan> kanzure: I wrote a small text editor called "plokta", the advantage of which was that almost any plausible sequence of keys woud get you out of it. 11:01 < kanzure> 10:38 <+jcowan> It was an acronym for "press lots of keys to abort" 11:01 < kanzure> 11:01 <+kanzure> jcowan: should just be wrapper around any other text editor, really 11:01 < kanzure> 10:38 <+jcowan> lost it though 11:25 -!- nmz787_i1 [~ntmccork@192.55.54.42] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:30 < kanzure> i should have mentioned this earlier, but human-usable computer is not a good first molecular nanotechnology project. far more projects are going to be possible long before human-usable molecular nanotechnology assembled computer is constructed and working. 11:30 < kanzure> however, such a project might be useful in the sense that set your goals high and then iterate and do feedback, which usually gets more results than doing nothing at all 11:37 < kanzure> shorter-term molecular nanotechnology projects that i would expect would be things such as: better atomic force microscopy tips (single-atom tips), linear actuators, mechanical chambers for yoctoliter chemical reactions, pre-programmed patterned superhydrophobic surfaces, ... i don't actually think "low-mass carbon-only replicas of most hardware store items" is a good initial goal, because i doubt that large-scale lego brick assembly is ... 11:37 < kanzure> ... going to be first thing to work after you get positional assembly of small collections of atoms. 11:37 < kanzure> and i would consider "low-mass carbon-only replicas of most hardware store items" to be much more easily achieved than most atomically-precise human-usable computers. although small chips could be easier in some circumstances. 11:38 < fenn> i think this is obvious 11:39 < kanzure> well, yes, but the question was "list of molecular machines to make on day one", and i keep struggling on that one 11:39 -!- nmz787_i [~ntmccork@192.55.54.42] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:39 < fenn> not hardware store items but electronics 11:39 < kanzure> i mean sure we can look at the merkle differential gear all we want 11:40 < kanzure> yeah there are lots of electronics things that could be proposed... radio transceivers, actuators, sound, various phased array stuff. 11:40 < fenn> smart dust 11:40 < fenn> handwavium 11:40 < kanzure> smart dust != utility fog? 11:40 < fenn> utility fog is more of a mechanical actuator system, whereas smart dust just sticks to things and floats around on the breeze 11:41 < delinquentme> do ADCs typically cost 10x what a DAC costs? 11:41 < kanzure> i don't even know how i know about "utility fog". i don't remember where i picked that up. in my original timeline, i remember "utility fog" as the concept of a (mostly invisible) fog that surrounds you, and you send commands to the fog and it manufactures things in front of you out of ambient background resources. 11:41 < delinquentme> analog to digital converter and digital to analog converter 11:42 < delinquentme> kanzure, my understanding of it was that its used as ladders , stepping stools , mechanical force actuators ( exoskeleton ) and also protection from being hit by cars 11:42 < kanzure> iirc "smart dust" was something about better-than-rfid thing tracking and utilization 11:42 < fenn> i don't think maaku meant "an entire laptop" when he said "a trillion core computer" 11:42 < kanzure> and to think i have enough trouble with gpu pipelining... hm. 11:43 < fenn> also your concept of utility fog is inaccurate, it doesn't typically manufacture anything 11:44 < fenn> it just rearranges its shape 11:44 < maaku> kanzure: oh, 'extrusion' of carbon nanotube fiber. because space elevators 11:45 < fenn> bah 11:45 < kanzure> fenn: well my inaccuracy there is probably because i have no clue where i picked up the idea. maybe i just heard the phrase once and just assumed a bunch of stuff. 11:45 < maaku> and yeah, i meant basically just being able to put logic gates together 11:45 < kanzure> "better electronics" is a good answer 11:47 < maaku> imho the NV-diamon quantum computer *should* be the first goal however, because it is trivially easy (might even be doable with present AFM technology), and quantum computers get us better simulations of quantum systems 11:48 < kanzure> reason why i was looking for list of machine ideas was because i have been apprehensive about how everyone jumps immediately to large-scale products and robotics 11:49 < kanzure> we have ribosomes cranking out proteins but that doesn't mean we can make large-scale structures at the moment 11:49 < fenn> yeah especially the assumption that self replicating robots will be easy 11:50 < maaku> kanzure: yeah but i still read your question as 'what's the highest impact thing you can make right out of the gate?' 11:50 < fenn> water :P 11:50 * fenn puts on carl sagan voice 11:51 < kanzure> "high impact" is backwards.. better to look at what can be made, then filter as second step. 11:51 < fenn> billions and billions of gallons of fresh clean water 11:51 < kanzure> filtration could work 11:51 < maaku> to which I think logic gates, NV-diamond quantum computers, and macro-scale braided carbon nanotube fibers are reasonable answers :) 11:51 < nmz787_i> delinquentme: ADCs and DACs do not generally have a 10X cost relationship 11:52 < delinquentme> nmz787_i, hmm one of the newbs in ##electronics sez yeh 11:52 < delinquentme> but who knows 11:54 < fenn> delinquentme: this is a "how much does a rope cost" sort of question 11:54 < delinquentme> fenn, I dont need rope 11:54 < delinquentme> jk jk lolol 11:54 < fenn> but considering that a very good ADC costs about $1 i'm not sure why it matters 11:55 -!- Aurelius_Work [~cpopell@209.48.69.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:55 < nmz787_i> delinquentme: you get both a DAC and a ADC on an arduino, so they cost the same 11:55 < fenn> unless you are doing software defined radio the cost will be negligible 11:55 < nmz787_i> delinquentme: that is a newb answer for ya 11:55 < nmz787_i> fenn: well 'good' is relative to the application 11:55 * delinquentme grumbles 11:55 < fenn> exactly 11:56 * delinquentme sips more kale protein slurry abomination 11:57 < kanzure> data storage, cameras would be easy. 11:57 < kanzure> oh that counts as electronics. meh. 11:58 -!- Darius [~quassel@207.251.103.46] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:00 < fenn> something that can fix carbon with either light or electricity 12:00 < maaku> Josh|NH4H has no-nanotech-required ideas regarding that 12:01 < fenn> it should be reasonably efficient (>30%) and not require water or cleaning 12:01 < Josh|NH4H> I believe I've been summoned? 12:01 < fenn> hello 12:01 < maaku> something that can fix carbon with either light or electricity 12:02 < fenn> we are rambling about easy things to make with nanofactories 12:03 < kanzure> and by nanofactory we mean... more like a few months after positional placement of atoms starts working if ever. 12:04 < fenn> actually since carbon fixation would need to be such a large scale process to be useful, it's not relevant for early nanofactory stuff because they would have limited output capacity 12:06 < fenn> how about x-ray mirrors, made from nanometer thick layers of elements of increasing mass each layer 12:06 < kanzure> for x-ray micromirror array things ? 12:07 < fenn> for lots of stuff 12:08 < fenn> x-ray lithography, x-ray lasers, x-ray holography, maybe some stimulated gamma emission experiments 12:08 < Darius> drexler seems to think APM will evolve kind of gradually out of things like DNA origami, so we'd see early applications built out of polymers, with the unit size etc. more continuously getting better 12:08 < kanzure> yeah probably lots of "metamaterial" options are available... like a glue paste that doubles as heat sink for buildings and airplanes and engines, shoot out energy wherever we want maybe. 12:09 < kanzure> various molecular cages 12:11 < kanzure> sensors with local logs 12:11 < kanzure> eh nevermind, you'd probably just use the nanotech to improve electronics-based sensors anyway. 12:13 < maaku> Darius: DNA origami should be sufficient for building little reaction chambers with protein catalysts for the reactions needed to charge tooltips 12:13 < kanzure> dna origami structures are not "solids" 12:13 < delinquentme> position specific placement of atoms havs already been achieved w diamond mechanosynthesis 12:14 < maaku> delinquentme: not in any interesting way 12:14 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:14 < kanzure> s/interesting/useful 12:14 < Darius> the idea is to use weak floppy hard-to-design things to build slightly stiffer easier-to-design things that can iterate the process 12:14 < Darius> and make ever more useful products along the way 12:15 < kanzure> has anyone demonstrated controlled chemical reactions inside of dna origami chambers? 12:15 < delinquentme> Oyabu et al : http://journals.aps.org/prl/abstract/10.1103/PhysRevLett.90.176102 12:15 < maaku> Darius: i don't think that will work, but you could use the chemistry done with synthetic bio + dna origami with the positional silicon 3d printed structures zyvex is working on 12:15 < delinquentme> kanzure, we've demonstrated controller dna assembly -- why doesnt that count / 12:15 < kanzure> "controller dna assembly" what? 12:16 < maaku> that would provide precision enough for unstressed diamondoid structures, i believe 12:16 < kanzure> we can assemble some dna origami structures, sure 12:16 < delinquentme> controlled * dna assembly 12:17 < delinquentme> thats not the chemistry you're looking for? 12:19 < maaku> delinquentme: i don't think anyone is looking to use DNA alone, no 12:20 < kanzure> i think for dna origami reaction chambers you would need to synthesize the oligo with biotin at some point, or some other way to select a molecule to get inside of the chamber before the folding is complete. then you would combine with another dna origami structure that has the second reaction component. 12:20 < delinquentme> that is definitely one thing I didnt write into the provisional 12:20 < kanzure> dna origami predictability is only slightly better than protein folding predictability 12:20 < delinquentme> using DNA origami to position the strands. Could be quite useful 12:20 < kanzure> dna synthsis costs are also somewhat high 12:20 < delinquentme> cause we dont yet have mecanoligation 12:20 * delinquentme nods 12:20 < kanzure> dna origami precise positioning isn't quite precise.... don't know what you are thinking about. 12:21 < delinquentme> someone really should work on that 12:21 < kanzure> huh? 12:21 < delinquentme> mechanical ligation 12:21 < fenn> how about YOU 12:21 < maaku> kanzure: i meant just using DNA as structure for building tubes and valves and things at that scale 12:21 < kanzure> dna origami is not going to do mechanical ligation of dna molecules 12:21 < maaku> not doing single-particle reaction chambers 12:22 < fenn> eh there's precedent with RNA "ribozyme" polymerases 12:22 < kanzure> maaku: i think that it would be hard to make dna serve as hard building blocks like that 12:22 < kanzure> yes, i'm aware of dnazymes 12:22 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:22 < kanzure> .wik deoxyribozyme 12:22 < yoleaux> "Deoxyribozymes, also called DNA enzymes, DNAzymes, or catalytic DNA, are DNA oligonucleotides that are capable of catalyzing specific chemical reactions, similar to the action of other biological enzymes, such as proteins or ribozymes (enzymes composed of RNA)." — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deoxyribozyme 12:23 < fenn> and self-splicing introns 12:23 < fenn> anyway 12:23 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bcpmxpqurinczogg] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 12:25 < kanzure> not sure how to think of dna origami in terms of material characteristics. it's not just a polymer, it selectively binds to random stuff and twists and turns and it's not really a solid surface even if it is dna origami. 12:25 < fenn> dna origami could be used as a scaffold to mount precise nanocrystals/nanoclusters that provide the precision necessary for charging tooltips or whatever, in the same way that one makes a precise structure out of ball bearings in order to achieve a better precision than is available using bulk manufacturing processes 12:25 < kanzure> whereas proteins i am slightly more familiar with 12:26 < kanzure> and then blocks of carbon are just graphene, graphite, diamond and easy to play around with in my head 12:27 < fenn> think of dna origami like self-folding duct tape 12:27 < kanzure> yeah probably first few molecular nanotech things should be for easier control of molecular precision, like ratcheting and actuators and positioning things. 12:27 < kanzure> duct tape except sometimes it's not a film :-/ 12:27 < kanzure> and it has weird dimensionality and twisting 12:28 < fenn> duct string 12:29 < fenn> well my point was that we can make identical copies of nanocrystals and nanoclusters so that provides a precise unit of measurement 12:30 < kanzure> dna origami ticker tape with nanocrystals every n position length, then shimmy it on the tooltip a few nm away from the tip, move band over to get next nanocrystal reaction catalyst 12:31 < kanzure> how did i get to this again? something about filters and machine tools. why am i thinking about this? 12:31 < fenn> more like, design the dna origami so that it folds and pushes all the crystals together in the configuration you want to line up the substrate 12:32 < Darius> drexler again, use weak positional constraints to make self-assembly more powerful 12:34 < kanzure> that's too handwavy, i can't turn that into something real 12:35 < fenn> "use TRIZ to apply inventive principles!" 12:36 < kanzure> i am not entirely convinced about self-assembly directions, actually. amorphous computing either. i mean they are nice ideas and they look interesting but at some time i dunno how to make that many surfaces that bind selectively to other surfaces. like having 100k parts that find other proteins and assemble together at specific surface interfaces, that sort of binding selectivity is still hard to generate at the moment. and expensive. 12:37 < kanzure> i like idea of biotin on oligo molecule. can stretch out oligo molecule and react to other surfaces, suddenly you have nm-resolution spacing of whatever you attached the biotin against. 12:37 < fenn> that's not precise enough though 12:38 < kanzure> what was the requirement? 12:38 < fenn> not sure but i would guess under the length of a carbon bond 12:38 < fenn> .wa length of a carbon bond 12:38 < yoleaux> Carbon bonds: bond length: (data not available) 12:38 < fenn> lol why do i bother 12:39 < kanzure> maaku: are you around to meet a formal verification coq person? 12:39 < kanzure> maybe explain your goals a bit. he's somewhat familiar with miri happenings. 12:39 < fenn> 0.1 nm 12:41 < kanzure> maaku: he can be on irc at 1:30pm pdt if you want to pick his brain. i highly recommend this. 12:41 < kanzure> (50 minutes from now) 12:42 < maaku> I'm on a 1-2pm conference call but free after 12:42 < kanzure> ok so how about 2pm 12:42 < maaku> sounds good to me 12:43 < kanzure> ok done 12:43 < fenn> kanzure handshake protocol completed, negotiating baud rate... 12:43 < kanzure> no kidding 12:43 < kanzure> it's like herding cats 12:43 < maaku> is he employable? 12:43 < kanzure> he has a relevant employer, but has buy-out clause 12:49 < kanzure> kung fury soundtrack https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sw9uicEGjGw 12:56 < kanzure> maaku: for context that conversation will be more along lines of cpu/vm (micro)architecture, coq stuff, correctness, formal verification, compiler design/theory/practicalities. 12:57 < kanzure> unrelated but i think i had somewhat productive rant in #lesswrong earlier where i was able to convince at least some of them that computational complexity classes are real and that they apply to more than just "software", such as for general engineering reasons and systems refactoring or modifications. 12:58 < delinquentme> lost me at #lesswrong 12:58 < maaku> kanzure: how are you able to keep up with #lesswrong and stay productive? 12:58 < maaku> but thanks for fighting the good fight 12:58 < kanzure> maaku: i am immune to noise (not really, i just want to sound like evil luke from the new star wars trailer) 12:59 < kanzure> context switching required to keep up in lesswrong is absolutely nothing compared to adhd 13:00 < kanzure> also, i seem to have higher productivity on days where i am yelling at more people, according to some evidence i've been collecting 13:00 < kanzure> (today has been good day for zeromq/tornado adventures) 13:02 < maaku> well your most productive visible activity seems to be herding said cats, so that makes sense 13:02 < kanzure> yeah i sorta regret that my software activity is non-visible 13:02 < kanzure> but w/e who am i convincing anyway 13:04 < delinquentme> engagement is always a good thing 13:04 < delinquentme> yelling / bitching can help that sometimes 13:17 -!- Burninate [~Burn@pool-74-96-98-64.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:28 -!- Darius [~quassel@207.251.103.46] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:36 -!- ArturShaik [~ArturShai@212.97.29.145] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:37 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:38 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:43 -!- Burninate [~Burn@pool-74-96-98-64.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:45 -!- Burninate [~Burn@pool-74-96-98-64.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:52 -!- atomical [~atomical@50.247.130.97] has quit [Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 14:01 -!- Burninate [~Burn@pool-74-96-98-64.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:07 -!- drethelin [~drethelin@24-241-226-112.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:08 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tudldpsftvctbsiv] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:39 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:42 -!- delinquentme [~delinquen@74.61.157.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:46 -!- delinquentme [~delinquen@74.61.157.78] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:05 -!- Darius [~quassel@cpe-158-222-160-123.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:16 < kanzure> https://botbot.me/freenode/bitcoin-core-dev/2015-10-30/?msg=53142950&page=4 15:16 < kanzure> https://github.com/moyix/panda 15:17 < kanzure> http://rr-project.org/ 15:17 < kanzure> http://velvetpulse.com/2012/11/27/scribe-the-deterministic-transparent-record-replay-engine/ 15:17 < kanzure> deterministic debugging/replay stuff 15:50 < kanzure> http://www.crowdsupply.com/kosagi/novena-open-laptop 15:50 < kanzure> http://spectrum.ieee.org/consumer-electronics/portable-devices/novena-a-laptop-with-no-secrets 15:50 < kanzure> 19:00 < nmz787_i1> well this is pretty nice http://hackaday.com/2014/05/09/bunnies-laptop-gets-a-900mhz-scope-addon/ 15:50 < kanzure> 19:01 < nmz787_i1> some PDFs of the probe schematics http://bunniefoo.com/novena/novescope/ 15:52 < fenn> .title https://www.google.com/patents/US8067758 15:52 < yoleaux> Patent US8067758 - Nano-structured nuclear radiation shielding - Google Patents 15:53 < kanzure> .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKjMLqkOdgM 15:53 < yoleaux> 01. David Hasselhoff – True Survivor ( Kung Fury - Original Soundtrack ) - YouTube 15:53 < fenn> did you just discover the 1980's? 15:54 < kanzure> well i have been looking for reliable source of 80s for a while now 15:55 < kanzure> newretrowave isn't quite on target for me 16:05 < fenn> i feel like i will be judged unfairly for any specific 80's music i recommend 16:05 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:06 < kanzure> hah well most of what i listened to as a kid was my dad's stuff which was just top charts so i'm not one to judge here :-/ 16:11 < fenn> some tangerine dream http://fennetic.net/irc/risky_business_love_on_a_real_train.mp3 16:12 < fenn> i guess i don't actually have very much 80's music 16:12 < kanzure> womp womp 16:13 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tudldpsftvctbsiv] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 16:18 < kanzure> why do i keep confusing phil collins and philip glass 16:20 < fenn> this is phil collins: http://fennetic.net/irc/risky_business_in_the_air_tonight.mp3 16:21 < fenn> philip glass is just synthesized piano arpeggios repeated until your mind melts 16:24 < fenn> no i actually like philip glass https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Stu7h7Qup8 16:29 < fenn> this was what we had to substitute for techno music back in the days before internet 16:30 < kanzure> make up your mind 16:31 < kanzure> philip glass confusion is probably because koyaanisqatsi and truman show 16:31 < fenn> i can like something even if it's not as good as modern things 16:32 < kanzure> er nevermind, that doesn't explain the mixup 16:35 < kanzure> 10:24 < nmz787_i1> http://mymochii.com/ --- 'Meet mochii, the world’s smallest production electron microscope.' 16:36 < kanzure> "2015 Aug - Mochii makes its debut at Microscopy and Microanalysis 2015 in Portland, OR." 16:46 < nmz787_i> yeah except they didn't actually show the microscope, they had a case and a tablet with a mock demo 16:46 < fenn> boo hiss 16:47 < fenn> ipad go home 17:03 < kanzure> https://github.com/cliffordwolf/picorv32 17:04 < kanzure> http://nommu.org/jcore/ 17:04 < kanzure> .title http://0pf.org/ 17:04 -!- nmz787_i [~ntmccork@192.55.54.42] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:04 < yoleaux> Open Processor Foundation | Accelerating the development with open core processors 17:05 < maaku> along similar lines 17:05 < maaku> .title http://riscv.org/ 17:05 < yoleaux> RISC-V 17:05 < maaku> what a boring title 17:08 < kanzure> that "video-only" open-source cad group will be discussing this presentation next: http://academy.cba.mit.edu/classes/old/cad_cam_cae/Bowyer.pdf (adrian boywer stuff from 2009) 17:08 < kanzure> hmm i should probably send email to adrian bowyer about verbnurbs and solvespace, dunno if he has seen that yet 17:09 -!- atomical [~atomical@209.153.22.182] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:10 < fenn> video-only? 17:10 < fenn> they don't know how to type or speak? 17:10 < kanzure> google hangouts video face2face chat 17:10 < kanzure> "look at each other's faces" group 17:11 < fenn> such motivation 17:11 < kanzure> "your chin is very motivating" 17:12 < fenn> huh there actually is a philip glass techno remix album 17:12 < kanzure> "techno" is too vague these days. could mean anythng. 17:12 < fenn> nosaj thing, amon tobin, pantha du prince 17:13 < fenn> pantha du prince is literally "minimal techno" that's the name of the sub-genre 17:32 < fenn> ok i read the Bowyer.pdf and find it hard to believe anyone has anything worth contributing in video hangout form 17:33 < fenn> it's basically "here's a b-rep. here's an f-rep. b-reps got here first, that's why we use them today. the end." 17:37 < kanzure> code-review of verbnurbs or solvespace might be more productive 17:37 < kanzure> but that's basically just "okay let's find where the resolution parameter is passed in, done" 17:37 < kanzure> and maybe "glance at pdf in repository for whatever paper he is working from" 17:38 < kanzure> http://ariel.chronotext.org/dd/defigueiredo93adaptive.pdf 17:38 < kanzure> ("Adaptive sampling of parametric curves") 17:41 -!- jenelizabeth [~jenelizab@cpc76802-brmb10-2-0-cust399.1-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:42 -!- jenelizabeth [~jenelizab@cpc76802-brmb10-2-0-cust399.1-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:00 -!- delinquentme [~delinquen@74.61.157.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:31 -!- lake_ [~lake_@59-186-128-104-static.reverse.queryfoundry.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:52 -!- delinquentme [~delinquen@74.61.157.78] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:20 -!- Madplatypus [uid19957@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mmalwzypeidbtpjw] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:23 < kanzure> http://www.clifford.at/icestorm/ https://github.com/cliffordwolf/icestorm 19:23 < kanzure> "Project IceStorm aims at documenting the bitstream format of Lattice iCE40 FPGAs and providing simple tools for analyzing and creating bitstream files. At the moment the focus of the project is on the HX1K-TQ144 and HX8K-CT256 devices, but most of the information is device-independent." 19:23 < kanzure> "We have enough bits mapped that we can create a functional Verilog model for almost all bitstreams generated by Lattice iCEcube2 for the iCE40 HX1K-TQ144 and the iCE40 HX8K-CT256." 19:28 -!- atomical [~atomical@209.153.22.182] has quit [Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 19:32 -!- nmz787_i [ntmccork@nat/intel/x-mjbdvjteyuznrxpu] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:32 -!- Darius [~quassel@cpe-158-222-160-123.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:35 < kanzure> 19:28 < kanzure> wasn't this a giant missing piece of the puzzle and everyone had to use xilinx for the longest time 19:35 < kanzure> 19:31 < TD-Linux> yes it was. and still is - the lattice chips are too small for some things 19:36 < fenn> but better than nothing 19:36 < kanzure> right, right. asked how small these things are, haven't looked. 19:37 -!- TheoryCat [TheoryCat@unaffiliated/wye-naught/x-8734122] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:39 < kanzure> i wonder if you could do ivf cycles while in an induced coma 19:40 < kanzure> to get past the shittyness 19:40 < fenn> yes 19:40 < kanzure> although maybe i am overestimating shittyness 19:40 < fenn> i don't think people are complaining about it that much 19:40 < kanzure> ah. well okay then. 19:42 < kanzure> 19:42 < TD-Linux> largest one is 8k LUTs / 64k dram. just large enough for a very small CPU, for example. 19:44 < kanzure> 19:44 < TD-Linux> you can get a 1k LUT one on a USB stick with programmer for $20, and run a tiny CPU: http://www.excamera.com/sphinx/article-j1a-swapforth.html 19:45 < kanzure> the future is pretty cool 19:46 < fenn> so it's nice to be able to run a cpu in a fpga, but i'd rather just have a cpu and fpga combo 19:46 < kanzure> oh some soc monstrosity? 19:47 < fenn> the only use case i can think of is processor desginers/students or crypto people who can't trust that their processor is what it claims to be and nothing else 19:47 < fenn> for a soft core 19:47 < kanzure> sdr stuff? 19:47 < fenn> otherwise an "asic" cpu is superior in every way 19:48 < fenn> don't need a soft cpu for sdr 19:52 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-goekvifcmlftdqjo] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:31 < nmz787_i> zynq 20:31 < nmz787_i> me and chris_99 talked about this a few days ago 20:31 < nmz787_i> we traded links back and forth a bunch 20:56 -!- nmz787_i [ntmccork@nat/intel/x-mjbdvjteyuznrxpu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:02 -!- jaboja [~jaboja@eru162.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:13 -!- TheoryCat [TheoryCat@unaffiliated/wye-naught/x-8734122] has quit [Quit: TheoryCat] 21:20 < kanzure> wasn't impressed by earlier list of molecular machines, actual answer might be "eh we only know what to do with large chunks of matter placed together" and/or "so electronics" 21:21 < kanzure> electronics is broad enough to be useful tho, so i'll be okay with that 21:24 < kanzure> fenn: carbon-bond positional placement was not the requirement for nanocrystal positioning. afm and/or stage can do positioning. nanocrystal just had to deliver chemical reagents for tooltip delivery. and then spacing between nanocrystals large enough that you wont accidentally hit the wrong one. 21:25 < kanzure> *carbon-bond-resolution positional placement 21:26 < kanzure> have two moving parts, one is the afm tip (or stage) second moving part is dna origami tape with nanocrystals attached at defined intervals. need to provide delivery of tooltip modification reagents that doesn't geometircally intersect with growing workpiece unless necessary for tooltip modification at specific time and place. 22:04 -!- drethelin [~drethelin@24-241-226-112.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:04 -!- drethelin [drethelin@24-241-226-112.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:06 -!- jaboja [~jaboja@eru162.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:13 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-goekvifcmlftdqjo] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 23:10 < JayDugger> fenn, what title has that Philip Glass remix album you mentioned? --- Log closed Sat Oct 31 00:00:12 2015