--- Log opened Wed Nov 04 00:00:15 2015
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04:18 < kanzure> yeah i doubt that libgen is going to comply with that
04:22 < kanzure> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Geometric_Kernel
04:22 < kanzure> http://isicad.net/articles.php?article_num=15189
04:22 < kanzure> "To clarify, I did not mean opencascade by "crazy russian kernel" , I meant the russian geometric kernel"
04:22 < kanzure> "Whoops, I think I actually meant C3D."
04:22 < kanzure> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C3D
04:22 < kanzure> http://gfxspeak.com/2013/06/06/does-the-cad-world-need-another-geometry-kernel/
04:23 < kanzure> that was via Nancy Ouyang <nancy.ouyang@gmail.com>
04:25 < abetusk> kanzure, this is off some google group or mailing list?
04:26 < kanzure> some bullshit private "journal club", i don't know man, people are awful
04:26 < abetusk> how did you get access to it?
04:28 < abetusk> https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1ASY2LDR0UnFmKwdGOJEE7ReH1RUWVNffleHHD7N5-Zw/viewform
04:31 < kanzure> i typed up this rant about why video is a terrible way to communicate, and she put me in the group anyway
04:37 < abetusk> so you're attending and transcribing portions here?
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04:38 < kanzure> nope
04:39 < kanzure> the quote was from an email
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04:39 < abetusk> to you personally or to the group?  Not public...
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04:41 < kanzure> group, but in reply to me apparently- http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/cad/cad-discuss-mit.edu.hangout.001.txt
04:41 < kanzure> is this important ?
04:41 < kanzure> i feel like i'm being interrogated for having tolerated someone using video. i mean yeah they are awful people, but what do you want ?
04:41 < abetusk> I'm interested in 3d cad software/modelling.  Nancy is involved in the open hardware community.  I would like to know what's going on in the group but I don't want to join a video chat to find out
04:42 < abetusk> kanzure, sorry, I didn't mean it that way.  I was just trying to get more information
04:42 < kanzure> oh i see
04:43 < kanzure> cad-discuss@mit.edu
04:43 < kanzure> that's all i know
04:43 < abetusk> ok, thanks.  Sorry for the interrogation
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04:49 < kanzure> nah i didn't understand; you should have just lead with the more explicit ask.
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06:14 < kanzure> zooko stuff http://www.wired.com/2015/11/zerocoin-startup-revives-the-dream-of-truly-anonymous-money/
06:36 < JayDugger> Good, good.
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06:55 < JayDugger> My god, when did WIRED start using a highlighter to indicate hyperlinks?
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07:43 < poppingtonic> wow. cool I've been reading about zk-SNARKS for a few months now.
07:49 < kanzure> http://karthaus.nl/rdp/ "The Ramer-Douglas–Peucker algorithm is an algorithm for reducing the number of points in a curve that is approximated by a series of points. It does so by "thinking" of a line between the first and last point in a set of points that form the curve. It checks which point in between is farthest away from this line. If the point (and as follows, all other in-between points) is closer than a given distance ...
07:49 < kanzure> ... 'epsilon', it removes all these in-between points. If on the other hand this 'outlier point' is farther away from our imaginary line than epsilon, the curve is split in two parts: ..."
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08:00 < kanzure> "I'm referring to recent work by George Church lab that shows by editing 62 genes in pigs via CRISPR/Cas9, could lead to organs that can be transplanted in humans without rejection/problems. My question is: since the organs transplanted will be young, if we transplant a significant amount of vital organs (kidney, liver, thymus, lungs, heart, spleen, etc.) of course except the brain, can we create the rejuvenation effects resulted from ...
08:00 < kanzure> ... heterochronic parabiosis or similar approaches? If you think this could lead to above mentioned rejuvenation results, what would be the minimum (critical) list of organs that must be transplanted? This is just an idea, and indeed theoretically can be via brute force - of course a more elegant one will be to rejuvenate those organs from inside of the body without the need of surgery, but still I wanted to ask your opinion."
08:00 < kanzure> http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2015-10/12/gene-editing-pig-organs-human-transplant
08:00 < kanzure> http://arep.med.harvard.edu/gmc/
08:00 < kanzure> http://arep.med.harvard.edu/gmc/news.html
08:05 < kanzure> "Although pig organs were once considered to be a strong potential alternative to human organs for transplants, research had stalled, partly due to the the infectious porcine endogenous retrovirus (PERV) that is found in all pig DNA and can still produce infectious virions. When it comes into contact with human cells in either a lab dish or an animal host, the virus infects them. It's these infectious residual traces of PERV DNA, which ...
08:05 < kanzure> ... exist in multiple locations in the pig genome, that geneticist George Church's team successfully removed from 62 sites in a porcine epithelial kidney cell. The edited cells were up to 1,000 times less able to infect human kidney cells with PERV. Church, who has founded a private company called eGenesis to further develop the technique, told the National Academy of Sciences that his group had successfully created pig embryos with ...
08:05 < kanzure> ... inactive PERV sequences. The team hopes to have PERV-free embryos ready to implant in 2016, allowing them to create retrovirus-free cloned pigs. ..."
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08:45 < JayDugger> John Sundman, huh? SF writer and tech writer for Sun, and I've not heard of him.
08:45 < JayDugger> from http://johnsundman.com/2015/11/synthetic-biology-legend-george-church-i-talk-about-science-and-civilization/, via http://arep.med.harvard.edu/gmc/news.html
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10:35 < kanzure> http://www.fastcompany.com/3053065/most-creative-people/twist-bioscience-inks-deal-to-sell-100-million-pairs-of-synthetic-dna
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10:35 < kanzure> "This single order is equivalent to 10% of total DNA synthesis capacity worldwide" :-/
10:36 < kanzure> http://blog.ginkgobioworks.com/2015/11/04/comments-on-gene-synthesis-in-light-of-our-deal-with-twist/
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11:38 < kanzure> cpf1 is in the news again. hm.
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11:52 < nmz787_i> so I figured I would check the midwest for EEs needing work, before looking overseas... first guy I found has an analog-to-digital background for high-speed imagers, pretty cool! Now to see if he's affordable.
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11:54 < nmz787_i> need to get moving on: https://witneyman.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/all-my-circuits.jpg
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12:47 < kanzure> "Facilitation of memory encoding in primate hippocampus by a neuroprosthesis that promotes task-specific neural firing"
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13:07 < kanzure> re: cpf1, i think this was it http://www.wired.com/2015/09/war-genome-editing-just-got-lot-interesting/
13:11 < FourFire> kanzure, Singrana and I are investigating tDCS device candidates
13:11 < FourFire> will report back with whatever we discover
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13:47 < archels> FourFire: what are you looking to do with tDCS?
13:47 < FourFire> archels, "Overclock your brain today!"
13:48 < FourFire> I'm looking to see what nootropic effects it can have towards mathematical ability and concentration
13:48 < archels> ah, fair enough
13:48 < chris_99> are there any positive results from trials for this?
13:49 < FourFire> There was a paper, I've lost it, trying to get Singrana to dig it up for me
13:50 < kanzure> "there was a paper, but i lost it, don't remember the title, or any of the authors, or any of the details, but i think this was covered. also hey what kind of food is around here anyway, what's for dinner?" -- hplusroadmap
13:51 < jrayhawk> responsibly removing contagious animal retroviruses from treatments? pffft
13:51 < jrayhawk> that's not how we practice medicine in this country
13:51 < kanzure> damn straight
13:52 < jrayhawk> somehow we just need to claim that porcine organ transplants are a vaccine and then no one will be allowed to question when we infect the overwhelming majority of the U.S.
13:52 < FourFire> I'm sorry for adding noise to this channel, I'm often focusing on improving my ability to contribute to the goals.
13:52 < kanzure> this is going to cause a lot of headaches when the anti-vaxxers meet the anti-pork people
13:53 < kanzure> FourFire: you're not adding noise
13:54 < FourFire> kanzure, does this lesswrong post have any merit: http://lesswrong.com/lw/lqd/an_alarming_fact_about_the_antiaging_community/
13:54 < kanzure> FourFire: "i don't remember any of the details, where's the food?" is a common trope from a lot of entertainment media
13:54 < jrayhawk> are porcine organ transplants halal and kosher
13:55 < kanzure> FourFire: yep, not many people freeze their sperm, stem cells, blood or anything else of any relevance, and yes they should be doing those things
13:56 < kanzure> or eggs for that matter. not many people freezing their eggs.
13:56 < nmz787_i> .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xhl_yJ2aM0U
13:56 < yoleaux> Raw cream Breve challenge, pt 1 (bitcoin breve) - YouTube
13:56 < FourFire> I took some time and speculated that some fertility clinics might offer a service to store nonzygote/gamete cells
13:56 < kanzure> every woman who is interested in trying a "career" should also be freezing her eggs- because of various biological clock reasons that, apparently, most women are not entirely aware about
13:57 < nmz787_i> kanzure: do we have a list of freezer+extractions services?
13:57 < FourFire> perhaps cryo orgs would be interested in selling it as a side business?
13:57 < kanzure> well, last looked the blood banking industry is really underdeveloped for non-donating blood storage
13:57 < kanzure> nmz787_i: for human biological tissue? no i don't think so. we could make one though.
13:57 < FourFire> I'm really not up to date with my Cryo options, but now I'm considering sampling one of each multipotent stem cell type, and have them stored for later use
13:58 < FourFire> but blood isn't frozen is it?
13:58 < FourFire> I thought it was just refrigerated
13:58 < kanzure> FourFire: yeah, i think cryonics services should be more publically available for anyone that wants to store stuff that can actually be thawed, such as eggs, sperm, stem cells, etc. but iirc other companies might be offering this already.
13:58 < jrayhawk> is the 'challenge' to get the cream out of the bottle
13:58 < kanzure> you can freeze blood, sure
13:59 < maaku> cryo storage is insanely expensive
13:59 < maaku> i looked at it for umbilical cord storage, way outside of any reasonable cost
13:59 < maaku> ($xxx/mo)
13:59 < kanzure> originally non-donative blood banking sparked lots of "outrage" because people claimed that it would distract from hospital-related blood donation -_- so the guy who started that industry got a huge amount of hatemail
13:59 < FourFire> maaku, what project was that for?
13:59 < kanzure> maaku: iirc you're not supposed to store the whole cord though?
14:00 < maaku> FourFire: two of them, aged 2 and 4
14:00 < kanzure> FourFire: it's pretty well known that everyone should be storing umbilical cord stem cells for all sorts of fun reasons
14:00 < maaku> kanzure: that's why i was surprised about the cost
14:00 < kanzure> maaku: cheaper to store it yourself at those costs btw
14:00 < FourFire> "pretty well known" I really need to get into the track of papers and whatever else it is you read Kanzure
14:01 < kanzure> FourFire: hplusroadmap backlogs
14:01 < FourFire> considering starting Rosalind in the near future
14:01 < maaku> FourFire: the hopital asks you
14:01 < kanzure> maaku: storing it yourself is cheaper but you would have probably still contracted out the initial extraction
14:01 < maaku> so it's at least that well known
14:01 < kanzure> oh the hospital was kind enough to ask you! fascinating.
14:02 < maaku> kanzure: it's messed up though, because you have to have arranged something already, they can't do it on the spot
14:02 < maaku> it's a 'did you make arrangements?' question
14:02 < kanzure> now we just need the dentists to start asking "where should we put your wisdom teeth" and we'll be in business
14:02 < FourFire> I gtg, working on project "actually getting 8 hours sleep" see if it improves my mental capabilities
14:03 < kanzure> but yeah, i agree with a claim like "anti-aging people are sorta dull and haven't been banking their redundant organs or cellular matter", that seems very likely to me.
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14:03 < kanzure> but i wouldn't be so disillusioned as the poster calls himself... i mean yeah people miss obvious stuff all the time, but if anything that just means that there's a lot of low-hanging fruit to exploit. which is a good thing, not a bad thing.
14:04 < kanzure> jrayhawk: yeah i have no idea if porcine organ transplants are kosher. we should definitely look that one up.
14:06 < kanzure> we could also start encouraging people to freeze their miscarriages. those aren't always completely dead, right?
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14:07 < maaku> FourFire: umbilical cord blood can treat leukaemia, blood and bone marrow disorders, side effects of chemotherapy in cancer treatment, and immune deficiencies
14:07 < kanzure> i wonder if any of the fetal stem cells that everyone was complaining about were from miscarriages. that would be hilarious twist.
14:08 < maaku> if you're parents had the foresight to bank your umbilical cord blood, that's like automatic +5 protection against those problems ... if you can afford the storage fees
14:09 < kanzure> maaku: would be sorta trivial to put together open-source hardware setup for self-storage of umbilical cord matter. but the preparatory procedure would need some work.
14:09 < kanzure> liquid nitrogen isn't that expensive, etc.
14:09 < kanzure> but would need to be bought regularly
14:10 < kanzure> well, nevermind, don't need much extra hardware other than dewar or something.
14:10 < kanzure> maybe some sensors
14:10 < nmz787_i> jrayhawk: that was the first challenge, I usually mix cream+milk before steaming, but sometimes do cream alone (breve)... but I am not sure it would work for this cream.
14:13 < kanzure> this is a very strange lesswrong thread verging on something useful
14:15 < kanzure> phil goetz is in that thread complaining about doctors stopping him from freezing stuff (he has personally communicated these stories to me before, really sucky stuff happened)
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14:34 < justanotheruser> Is there a lexusnexus or westlaw dump somewhere?
14:36 < kanzure> not to my knowledge
14:36 < kanzure> torrentfreak would have mentoined if anything like that happened, so maybe go query google about site:torrentfreak.com lexusnexus
14:40 < justanotheruser> nope
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15:25 < glutamatergic> I've heard this board praised in multiple corners of the internet recently so I came to check it out, but so far I haven't seen too much activity. Could someone give a quick (partial) summary of regulars' recent projects?
15:33 < kanzure> glutamatergic: http://diyhpl.us/wiki/hplusroadmap and http://diyhpl.us/wiki/transhumanism
15:33 < kanzure> bbl
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16:17 < kuudes> hmmm. that umbilical cord banking sounds interesting. so one would freeze it? is this already common somewhere?
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16:26 < nmz787_i> kanzure: specifically I was asking about egg freezing, but I guess general freezer+prep/extraction+service list would be good, eggs could just be a category/tag
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16:52 < kanzure> nmz787_i: for egg storage i think there's some upfront hormone therapy requirements?
16:53 < kanzure> and probably multiple visits to doctors or something
16:53 < kanzure> dunno
16:53 < kanzure> kuudes: you don't freeze the cord itself
16:54 < kuudes> but the blood in it?
16:55 < kuudes> well we are getting general bio banks into finland now, so people's tissue samples are stored for future healthcare or research use
16:56 < kanzure> blood and stem cells
16:56 < kanzure> mostly you want the stem cells
16:56 < kuudes> hmm
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17:13 < c0rw1n> kuudes: hey there are things that gather your stem cells from your teeth, if you misplaced your umbilical cord
17:13 < kuudes> sounds interesting?
17:13 < c0rw1n> kanzure: any idea how worth it those are?
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17:37 < kanzure> yes stem cells are a good thing to keep
17:38 < kanzure> kuudes: you've been making finland sound pretty great lately :-)
17:39 < kuudes> :)
17:40 < kuudes> are there general private cryogenic services in US or other places?
17:40 < kuudes> I know you can store sex cells here privately, but I am not aware of other cells
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18:36 < fenn> PERV strikes again! putting a hotdog in your bacon every time http://cdn.phys.org/newman/csz/news/800/2015/4-researchersm.png
18:38  * fenn checks to make sure it's not april fool's day
18:41 < fenn> i thought the articles would be about major histocompatibility complex and immune rejection of transplanted organs, not some silly virus
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19:07 < kanzure> nsh stuff https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52nVGkCJJg8
19:08 < fenn> .title
19:08 < yoleaux> Channel 4 News - Investigatory Powers Bill - Lauri Love - YouTube
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19:33 < fenn> does finland have a secret arctic mountain cryo-bank where they keep all the frozen cells
19:33 < kanzure> yes actually
19:33 < kanzure> .wik svalbard global seed vault
19:33 < yoleaux> "The Svalbard Global Seed Vault (Norwegian: Svalbard globale frøhvelv) is a secure seed bank on the Norwegian island of Spitsbergen near Longyearbyen in the remote Arctic Svalbard archipelago, about 1,300 kilometres (810 mi) from the North Pole. Conservationist Cary Fowler, in association with the Consultative Group on International  …" — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svalbard_global_seed_vault
19:34 < kanzure> no wait, that's not finnish
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19:35 < kanzure> what! how did we lose glutamatergic. bah.
19:41 < fenn> they had no patience to begin with
19:42 < kanzure> anyone have an update on kosher pig organ transplants
19:42 < fenn> if pages of discussion about tDCS, xenotransplantation, DIY cryo storage of stem cells isn't enough, then they didn't belong
19:43 < fenn> "Because in Jewish law, organ donation raises such difficult questions, it has traditionally been met with some skepticism.
19:43 < fenn> do organ transplants really work? be skeptical!
19:45 < fenn> "the primary issue that prevents organ donation from the dead amongst Jews, in many cases, is the definition of death, simply because to take a life-sustaining organ from a person who was still alive would be murder."  doesn't seem to apply to pigs
19:46 < jrayhawk> nsh: pretty impressive; did they give you a teleprompter?
19:46 < fenn> you can see his talking points written in marker on his hand
19:46 < jrayhawk> but he didn't look down at his hand while talking
19:46 < fenn> also i wonder if the level of discourse in UK news is always this high, never seen anything like that on USA news
19:47 < jrayhawk> IIRC this show surprise-hitpiece-interviewed craig venter
19:48 < fenn> kidnapped by ninja journalists?
19:48 < jrayhawk> they probably just sensationalize whichever way they think the wind is blowing
19:52 < kanzure> swhack arranged some notes for him http://piratepad.nl/IP-Bill-points
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19:53 < fenn> wikipedia just says "Medical science has not reached the point of being able to use artificial organs or animal organs" but this is totally not true, and pig heart valves have been used for decades now, so surely some rabbi or other has written about it
19:53 < kanzure> quick, someone get the xenotransplantation rabbi on the phone!
19:53 < kanzure> .title http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10618731
19:53 < yoleaux> Pig organs for transplantation into humans: a Jewish view. - PubMed - NCBI
19:54 < kanzure> "Although Jewish law forbids Jews to raise or eat pigs, no such prohibition exists for the use of pigs to cure human illness or to save human lives by xenotransplantation"
19:54 < kanzure> https://scholar.google.com/scholar?es_sm=93&um=1&ie=UTF-8&lr&cites=8930690394819443469
19:54 < fenn> so, only wild pig organs are allowed? or someone else has to do the pig raising?
19:55 < fenn> like the guy who presses the elevator button on sabbath
19:55 < kanzure> so eating them is bad, but when their pig parts get integrated into your body through some means other than the normal digestive process, that's totes okay. hehe.
19:56 < fenn> http://www.foodandwine.com/fwx/food/world-s-oldest-woman-still-eats-bacon-every-day-115-years-old   obvs the bacon saved her from certain death
19:57 < kanzure> "my method is to look up what 110 year olds have been doing every day all their life, and i put all of that good stuff into a blender and chug it every morning" - ray kurzweil 2
19:57 < fenn> is that an actual quote from the future
19:58 < kanzure> 100% genuine
19:58 < fenn> i'm impressed you actually found a definitive scholarly answer as to whether xenotransplantation was kosher
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