--- Log opened Fri Dec 04 00:00:43 2015
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00:11 < justanotheruser> I'm sure at some point someone wrote them
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01:50 < Urchin> hi
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02:54 < fenn>  weird to see michael kan feature so prominently in this DIY optics article i linked to in 2008, before i had ever been to noisebridge: http://kmr.nada.kth.se/wiki/Main/PointFocus
02:55 < fenn> is the world really that small?
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04:05 < TMA> fenn: no, the world is large (try walking); the observation is "valid" though -- there are just few people around that are interesting -- because "interesting" is very narowly defined; combine that with several cognitive biases (such as almost never noticing when a coincidence fails to occur) and the world would begin to feel small
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04:45 < pasky_> oh my, I'd love to read that Metzger paper; but 24 pages in sans-serif? :(
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05:22 < kanzure> "proprietary data formats kill kids with cancer" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10675275
05:23 < kanzure> FourFire: gradstudentbot is based on "shit graduate students say" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovEghdXC4tE and hplusroadmap lore
05:23 < kanzure> pasky_: i'm curious, do you have trouble reading sans-serif english stuff?
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05:28 < kanzure> http://makezine.com/2015/11/28/chip-vs-pi-zero/
05:32 < pasky_> kanzure: I just find reading more than a page or two of sans-serif tedious in general, esp. on paper
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05:33 < kanzure> "Space-time is doomed. What replaces it?" http://www.cornell.edu/video/nima-arkani-hamed-spacetime-is-doomed
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06:36 < kanzure> scope of theoretical computer science w.r.t machine learning and complexity classes https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10676383
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06:45 < kanzure> that dude is claiming that accelerating expansion of the universe could be explained by dark energy, but also happens to be explained by non-zero energy density of vacuum
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07:42 < chris_99> http://www.symmetrymagazine.org/article/holometer-rules-out-first-theory-of-space-time-correlations
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12:21 < kanzure> -wizards has practically pledged funds for building a dyson swarm http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-wizards/2015-12-04.log
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12:34 < kanzure> what was the complaint about gfp gene therapy? something about the immune system iirc?
12:35 < kanzure> but why not just use intercellular gfp only? then do tissue biopsy and look at cells under fluorescence microscopy etc. no reason to expect gfp blood.
12:35 < kanzure> can't remember if the complaint was about gfp anywhere in the body
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15:54 < atomical> Is Liz Parrish ripped yet?
15:58 < kanzure> perhaps a better question is "has liz parrish realized the follies of her ways and decided on a better reporter method to determine whether gene therapy was successful?" instead?
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16:22 < docl> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_process lacks the method that fenn described in http://gnusha.org/logs/2008-03-28.log of using a mass spectrometer to purify stuff.
16:27 < docl> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fusion_torch mentions plasma separation of elements. Of course fusion has nothing to do with it, it just got associated because fusion is (if it worked, would be) a high-temp power source.
16:30 < docl> http://www.molecularassembler.com/KSRM/3.14.htm gives it a (somewhat dated) treatment in the context of a universal assembler / replicator. Which is of course what we are interested in it for.
16:32 < FourFire> kanzure, I don't get why they didn't add some (experimentally harmless, but easily detectable) phenotype as well as the two fixer genes
16:33 < kanzure> well one reason could be that they didn't know about visible phenotype stuff
16:33 < FourFire> Like, I would enjoy having the opportunity to alter my skin melanin content, which will likely be one of the first tests I do on myself.
16:34 < FourFire> How can they _Not Know_ about easily measureable phenotype stuff??
16:34 < FourFire> like, BTB is one.
16:34 < FourFire> that's Bio 101
16:35 < kanzure> yeah i feel like even if they didn't know any good visible phenotype targets, that they should have at least mentioned why they excluded that from consideration
16:35 < kanzure> and iirc they did not actually mention why they would exclude that
16:36 < FourFire> should I send them an email?
16:36 < kanzure> unfortunately this type of critiicsm is often perceived as criticism against diy gene therapy projects
16:37 < kanzure> 16:28 < atomical> so is she going to get ripped now?
16:37 < kanzure> 16:29 < kanzure> well, if she used a gfp reporter approach, she would be able to look at her blood (or something) to determine if gfp is being expressed. then she could make some reasonable guesses as to whether follistatin is being expressed.
16:37 < kanzure> 16:29 < kanzure> anyway, i think she could have picked better targets
16:37 < kanzure> 16:30 < yashgaroth> immunogenicity of gfp
16:37 < kanzure> thus my intercellular gfp comments above
16:37 < atomical> yeah, maybe
16:38 < kanzure> what?
16:38 < atomical> maybe she could have picked better targets
16:38 < atomical> think i could get some gene therapy done for 10k?
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16:38 < atomical> it's a few days of work i hear
16:38 < streety> why not measure the expression levels? Do you need a visual reporter?
16:38 < atomical> some grad student can probably do it, right?
16:39 < kanzure> most grad students are not going to be willing to do that. so you should just learn the methods yourself.
16:39 < kanzure> streety: expression levels would be useful, sure
16:40 < atomical> most but not all?
16:40 < kanzure> well if you find some, let me know
16:40 < atomical> dude, i'm a programmer, not a geneticist
16:41 < FourFire> I'm not even a *student :(
16:41 < atomical> maybe i can find some with a drug addiction. they should amenable, right?
16:41 < kanzure> yeah because professions are totally fucking exclusionary for acquiring other skills
16:41 < kanzure> i am also a programmer. nobody gives a shit.
16:41 < atomical> do you even lift?
16:41 < kanzure> i lift angry
16:42 < kanzure> look, you shouldn't be so self-defeating
16:42 < kanzure> knowing how to program is not something that damages your brain from learning other things
16:42 < kanzure> but, changing topics for a sec, if you find those grad students i really do mean let me know
16:43 < kanzure> while you're at it maybe you can find me an organic chemistry grad student?
16:43 < kanzure> i have been trying to hire some (like, paid)
16:43  * FourFire thinks in the opposite way: being a programmer is a capability floor for being able to do meaningful things in general
16:43  * FourFire is not (yet) a programmer
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16:43 < atomical_> [18:41:28]  <atomical>	do you even lift?
16:43 < atomical_> [18:42:28]  <atomical>	10 grand for not dying seems pretty cheap, ya kno? i figure i would fuck it up.
16:43 < atomical_> [18:42:44]  <atomical>	that's totally a hacker news stereotype though
16:43 < atomical_> [18:42:57] Disconnected
16:43 < atomical_> [18:43:05]  <atomical>	you know, the soylent guy that thinks he's a dietician
16:43 < kanzure> atomical_: http://gnusha.org/logs/2015-12-04.log
16:43 < streety> why grad students? If you are able to pay couldn't you hire anyone with the relevant experience/interest?
16:43 < atomical_> there's kind of a limit if you aren't trained
16:44 < kanzure> there's no guarantee that lifting will make you not die, i don't know what you're thinking
16:44 < atomical_> i'm not hiring some fucking hobbyist from hacker news
16:44 < kanzure> what hobbyist?
16:44 < kanzure> streety: even harder to find non-grad-student chemists
16:45 < atomical_> i'm just giving an example. i would not trust myself with modifying my genes.
16:45 < streety> that may be, but still seems self-defeating to limit the search
16:45 < kanzure> streety: well, i wasn't really limiting my search in the past, only in the messages i sent above, but fair point
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16:46 < FourFire> kanzure, in the one inverview of parrish that I bothered to watch, she mentions an older scientist who took the same therapy (one or both?) five years ago
16:46 < atomical_> what genes would be better? i don't want to be super huge or anything. women aren't even attracted to that shit. i'd have to go gay.
16:47 < FourFire> any idea who that is? chronological age? pics?
16:47 < kanzure> FourFire: nope no clue who that was.
16:47 < atomical_> i bet it's pretty common for scientists to take the drugs they develop. they probably don't publicize it though.
16:47 < atomical_> FourFire: Is Liz Parrish actually intelligent, or is she just another TED talk waiting to happen?
16:49 < FourFire> atomical_, I'm undescided: she seemed to be intelligently avoiding stupid pitfalls during her interview, even though the interviewee seemed to be a typical singularitard
16:49 < FourFire> but also has a lot of the TED vibe
16:50 < atomical_> it's fine that she wants to experiment on herself, that's ok. low expectations though.
16:50 < FourFire> "Liz Parrish tells a story about how CRISPIR and vegetarianism changed her life"
16:50 < atomical_> i think a bodybuilder would have gotten more out of it
16:52 < atomical_> It wasn't CRISPIR was it?
16:55 < atomical_> "The myostatin inhibitor has been tested already. We should start seeing results around 4-5 months and peak around 8-12. Although we could extrapolate from the myostatin inhibitor, we do not know how long it will take the telomerase induction to begin working because no one has done it before."
16:58 < FourFire> atomical_, CRISPIR is just the delivery method, not the therapy itself.
16:59 < atomical_> that's pretty cutting edge, right? i thought she had this shit done in south america.
17:00 < kanzure> are you aware of how obnoxious you are? i'm having trouble identifying this.
17:00 < kanzure> "cutting edge" science is usually not restricted to a certain time and place. most equipment works in most regions of the world. there's no "region lock" on most scientific equipment (although cnc machines sometimes have this).
17:01 < kanzure> retrovirus-based gene therapies are not the same thing as crispr
17:01 < FourFire> kanzure, my bad.
17:01 < kanzure> having a large amount of muscle mass does not force you to become homosexual
17:02 < kanzure> i think that follistatin levels could be measured somehow (probably with protein assays of some kind), but visual results could be influenced by steroids or any other number of factors in intervening months
17:03 < AmbulatoryCortex> if a 400 pound walking sack of fat can find love, I'm sure a mountain of meat would have considerably less trouble
17:04 < atomical_> eh
17:04 < atomical_> 400 pound walking sack of fat can find another 400 pounder
17:04 < atomical_> yeah, i realize i'm obnoxious, but CRISPIR is relatively new, right?
17:05 < kanzure> are you a redditor
17:05 < streety> you could potentially switch the codons so that the protein is identical but the mRNA is detectably different. Also detect the construct integrated in the genome
17:05 < atomical_> hated on reddit because i trash reddit's favorite diet
17:06 < pasky_> so what the heck is CRISPIR?
17:06 < kanzure> it's a typo
17:06 < pasky_> all I can google are typos of CRISPR
17:06 < streety> typo?
17:06 < kanzure> see: obnoxious
17:06 < atomical_> i think he knows what that means
17:06 < pasky_> okay :)
17:07 < atomical_> anyway, the idea that any individual can master any art is ridiculous
17:07 < kanzure> i'm gonna guess the answer to the reddit user question is yes
17:08 < atomical_> could you do open heart surgery?
17:08 < kanzure> of course
17:08 < atomical_> let's see the results
17:08 < atomical_> I do not suffer from false confidence
17:08 < kanzure> you know you can just close as soon as you open up the chest, right? that's still open heart surgery.
17:08 < atomical_> Is this your plan for a new Tim Ferris book?
17:09 < kanzure> i think you will find that testing me like this is a waste of time
17:09 < atomical_> I can see it now, "Open Heart Surgery In One Step"
17:09 < kanzure> you will get far more value out of me by not being a fucking idiot
17:09 < atomical_> I have plenty of time to waste
17:09 < streety> even talking about surgery on the heart, you wouldn't get it right first time but you can train for it. Take small steps and build up.
17:09 < pasky_> so what I caught from the last 20 minutes of chat is that there's some scientist who said her colleague applied CRISPR-based gene therapy 5 years ago (!?) on himself
17:10 < kanzure> pasky_: no...
17:10 < atomical_> pasky_: http://www.longevityreporter.org/blog/2015/10/24/liz-parrish
17:10 < kanzure> god damn it why the shit didn't i kickban atomical
17:10 < kanzure> no, they did not use crispr
17:10 < atomical_> duh
17:10 < atomical_> that's the point i've been making
17:10 < pasky_> okay i'll read the actual interview :)
17:11 < kanzure> pasky_: summary is "someone claims to have used adenovirus/retrovirus-based gene therapy for telomerase extension lengthening and follistatin expression, something something south america, hplusroadmap wrote an angry letter to her suggesting that she chooses different visual reporter indicators for whether the gene therapy works"
17:11 < atomical_> an official letter?
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17:12 < kanzure> nah, i am being facetious
17:12 < kanzure> haven't pinged her
17:12 < pasky_> neat, thanks
17:12 < kanzure> it's less neat because she claimed that this was an anti-aging treatment
17:13 < kanzure> i mean, it's true that telomerase hsa been investigated in previous experiments regarding aging, but that's not saying much
17:13 < kanzure> *telomerase has been
17:13 < kanzure> *telomerase extension lengthening
17:13 < atomical_> shot in the dark
17:14 < atomical_> probably just needs some excitement in her life
17:14 < atomical_> maybe she can learn programming and master a new art?
17:14 < kanzure> are you asking because you're not sure if you should expect someone to be capable of learning to program? or because of some other reason?
17:15 < kanzure> atomical_: have you done a writeup of your $10k gene therapy project? and if so, can i see it
17:16 < atomical_> i am not skilled in the art, just incredibly bored with life like Liz Parrish
17:16 < kanzure> perhaps you could occupy your time by reading these http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/longevity/ http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/bio/ http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/neuro/
17:16 < atomical_> 10k is an arbitrary number
17:17 < atomical_> how do you feel about dihexa, kanzure?
17:18 < kanzure> i have some ideas for making some strong nootropics, but in the past have not been impressed by any nootropics i've taken (besides adderall, although i think it's probably not a general nootropic for most people), haven't spent much time on existing small molecule noots.
17:19 < kanzure> i would guess BDNF is a good idea
17:19 < kanzure> .wik dihexa
17:19 < yoleaux> "Dihexa (also known as N-hexanoic-Tyr-Ile-(6) aminohexanoic amide) is a oligopeptide and angiotensin IV derived drug candidate that acts as a hepatocyte growth factor agonist and dramatically improves the cognitive function of rats with Alzheimer's-like mental impairment." — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dihexa
17:19 < kanzure> ".. and dramatically improves the cognitive function of rats with Alzheimer's-like mental impairment.[1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10] In bench assays using living nerve cells to monitor new neuronal connections, Harding, Wright and their colleagues found Dihexa to be seven orders of magnitude more powerful than BDNF, which has yet to be effectively developed for therapeutic use. In other words, it would take 10 million times as much ...
17:19 < kanzure> ... BDNF to get as much new synapse formation as Dihexa.[11]"
17:20 < kanzure> welp that sounds like an interesting candidate for ultrasound-burstable microcapsules (for targeted delivery to specific brain areas).
17:42 < docl> Microcapsules are something I could see being very helpful for cryoprotectant delivery. The challenge there is primarily osmotic. You need to get the solutes in there fast in order to do the procedure fast enough to avoid toxicity, but the required concentration is very high, so perfusion has to be ramped slowly to avoid bursting cells.[C[C
17:51 < Filosofem> cool..
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17:51 < Jawmare> interesting structure
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17:53 < Jawmare> I don't think that is hard to synthesize
17:53 < Jawmare> 4 peptide bonds
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18:12 < Jawmare> kanzure, want to work on synthesizing it?
18:13 < kanzure> dihexa?
18:13 < kanzure> shrug, sure why not. i could think of a worse way to blow a weekend.
18:20 < kanzure> docl: traditionally the way to do ramp-up is with microcapsules that have shells of varying thickness to control the dosage over time based on the thick shell wall dissolving
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19:35 < atomical_> it has already been synthesized in group buys
19:35 < atomical_> and synthesized privately and sold
19:35 < atomical_> i think you can buy it off ebay from nyles
19:36 < atomical_> also, i think high synapse formation is associated with several pathologies
19:40 < xentrac> kanzure: is your statement about adderall general to amphetamine and methamphetamine, or specific to near-racemic amphetamine?
19:41 < xentrac> I think amphetamine has been shown to be pretty widely effective for the things it's effective for, some of which you could consider nootropic (focus, improved memory formation)
19:41 < xentrac> but it has some serious drawbacks
19:42 < xentrac> I wouldn't be willing to try it again myself
19:48 < kanzure> xentrac: dextroamphetamine salts do wonderful things for me
19:48 < kanzure> well, dextroamphetamine salts in time-release capsules.
19:49 < kanzure> xentrac: for me it has unusually strong effects (difference between functioning vs non-functioning, almost)
19:49 < kanzure> xentrac: and i have noticed that this doesn't tend to be the case for most people
19:56 < xentrac> oh, that's true
19:57 < xentrac> but I don't think of that as a nootropic effect, if the non-functioning state is the one I'm envisioning
19:57 < xentrac> where you're too distractible to get basic life things done, or occasionally even carry on a conversation
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20:44 < kanzure> xentrac: worse than that. trouble constructing coherent thoughts, or remembering conclusions to thoughts, it makes for essentially no progress whatsoever.
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22:18 < fenn> http://stores.ebay.com/Nyles7s-Unusual-Compounds  some interesting chemicals but unfortunately no dihexa for sale at the moment
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--- Log closed Sat Dec 05 00:00:28 2015