--- Log opened Wed Dec 23 00:00:44 2015
00:06 -!- poppingtonic [~Thunderbi@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
00:08 -!- poppingtonic [~Thunderbi@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has joined ##hplusroadmap
00:38 -!- jtimon [~quassel@74.29.134.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined ##hplusroadmap
00:40 -!- poppingtonic1 [~Thunderbi@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has joined ##hplusroadmap
00:42 -!- poppingtonic [~Thunderbi@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
00:42 -!- poppingtonic1 is now known as poppingtonic
00:51 -!- Act [uid89656@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fgkufvrxlttahvor] has joined ##hplusroadmap
01:17 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap
01:23 -!- poppingtonic1 [~Thunderbi@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has joined ##hplusroadmap
01:24 -!- poppingtonic [~Thunderbi@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
01:26 -!- poppingtonic [~Thunderbi@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has joined ##hplusroadmap
01:27 -!- poppingtonic1 [~Thunderbi@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
01:37 -!- Madplatypus [uid19957@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-falznafctrcdjkkh] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
01:55 -!- rhaps0dy [~rhaps0dy@81.4.122.176] has joined ##hplusroadmap
01:56 -!- rhaps0dy [~rhaps0dy@81.4.122.176] has quit [Client Quit]
01:58 -!- rhaps0dy [~rhaps0dy@81.4.122.176] has joined ##hplusroadmap
02:09 -!- smeaaagle [~smeaaagle@2002:6882:d6c::6882:d6c] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
02:34 -!- urchin is now known as Urchin
03:00 -!- Gurkenglas [Gurkenglas@dslb-188-103-077-131.188.103.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has joined ##hplusroadmap
03:18 < chris_99> nmz787, be thee about?
03:32 < archels> "Please let me know if you have not received the mail below and you are a PhD student!"
04:19 < archels> haha, what manner of ripoff is this  https://www.joylent.eu/
04:20 < chris_99> lol
04:23 < Diablo-D3> joylent is not people?
04:23 < Diablo-D3> that is one ugly website, holy crap
04:23 < archels> just powdered people
04:23 < Diablo-D3> https://www.joylent.eu/faq
04:24 < Diablo-D3> this company has a very twisted sense of humor
04:25 < jrayhawk_> this looks about as bad as soylent
04:27 < Diablo-D3> scroll down to "where is the oil in joylent"
04:27 < Diablo-D3> and watch the video
04:27 < jrayhawk_> hahaha flaxseed
04:28 < Diablo-D3> is... is this company for real?
04:29 < Diablo-D3> Im being serious, is this a parody or what?
04:29 < Diablo-D3> "Vitamin A (retinol acetate) 325000 IU"
04:30 < Diablo-D3> I wasn't aware they measured that in IU
04:30 < jrayhawk_> that's pretty common, yeah
04:31 < Diablo-D3> 111800 mcg
04:31 < Diablo-D3> or ~112 mg
04:32 < Diablo-D3> okay that seems very goddamned high
04:32 < jrayhawk_> yeah, they might be missing a comma
04:33 < jrayhawk_> but then it seems a bit low
04:33 < Diablo-D3> 40% of DV is 1200mcg aka 2000 IU
04:33 < jrayhawk_> but modern nutritionism is sortof obsessed with retinoid hepatotoxicity.
04:34 < Diablo-D3> so 100% DV is 3000 mcg/5000 IU
04:34 < Diablo-D3> jrayhawk_: depends on the source
04:34 < Diablo-D3> beta carotine is fine, our body only converts what it needs
04:34 < Diablo-D3> straight up pure retinol sources like that quickly leads to vitamin A toxicity
04:35 < jrayhawk_> there's a lot of individual variation in carotinoid conversion rates and retinol is only toxic in the context of a vitamind d deficiency
04:35 < Diablo-D3> yeah but 325k IU vs 5?
04:35 < Diablo-D3> thats a gigantic massive difference
04:36 < Diablo-D3> theres all sorts of wrong shit with this formula
04:36 < jrayhawk_> yeah, i am expecting they're missing a comma in there somewhere
04:37 < Diablo-D3> a european comma, ie, a decimal mark?
04:37 < jrayhawk_> or that
04:37 < Diablo-D3> but like, cyanocobalamin? seriously?
04:38 < Diablo-D3> why not methylcobalamin?
04:38 < jrayhawk_> soylent pulled the same shit; nobody apparently cares
04:38 < jrayhawk_> magnesium oxide, K1, folic acid, etc.
04:38 < Diablo-D3> and pyridoxine hydrochloride instead of pyridoxal 5-phosphate?
04:38 < jrayhawk_> nutritionists don't know any better and the public trusts the nutritionist requirements.
04:39 < Diablo-D3> yeah, and "folic acid" instead of one of the better folate delivery mechanisms
04:39 < jrayhawk_> guar gum and ground flaxseed are extra funny to me; absorption inhibitors and protease inhibitors
04:39 < Diablo-D3> yeah
04:40 < Diablo-D3> and if they're doing flax for the ALA?
04:40 < Diablo-D3> I just straight up say humans can't convert ALA to omega 3
04:40 < Diablo-D3> I don't even bother doing the whole "2-3% efficiency" crap
04:40 < Diablo-D3> ALA is not an omega 3 source, full stop
04:40 < jrayhawk_> alpha linolenic acid is an omega 3, it's just not a useful omega 3
04:41 < jrayhawk_> (also highly unstable under processing)
04:41 < Diablo-D3> at least they included choline
04:42 < Diablo-D3> and only alpha tocopherols for E? not all that useful
04:42 < Diablo-D3> do they actually list the amounts anywhere?
04:43 < Diablo-D3> like on an actual supplement facts panel?
04:43 < jrayhawk_> that would be effectively giving away their recipe, which the FDA doesn't require and a business would need to be fairly insane to advertise
04:44 < Diablo-D3> in the US you can't sell vitamins without it
04:44 < Diablo-D3> every single supplement Ive bought tells me what is in it, and how much there is
04:47 < Diablo-D3> they're EU, so I don't know the rules over there, but I find it hard to believe EU is behind on this
04:51 < Diablo-D3> their website is confusing, is this an entire meal replacement, or just a supplement package?
04:51 < Diablo-D3> jrayhawk_: btw, check the front page under reviews
04:51 < Diablo-D3> "Fuck Joylent. I wouldn't order from you again if my dog's life depended on it. Bunch of cunts."
04:52 < Diablo-D3> 1 star, "Shite", by rob
04:53 < Diablo-D3> oh, nutritional values is on their front page
04:53 < Diablo-D3> I scrolled right past it the first time
04:53 < Diablo-D3> this entire website is a trainwreck
04:54 < Diablo-D3> it contains oats, whey, soy, AND flax
04:56 < Diablo-D3> that omega 6 to 3 ratio is bad, there is waaaaaay too many carbs in this, given the source
04:57 < Diablo-D3> 2 euros a meal, that is $2.20 or so
04:57 < Diablo-D3> gimme a few moments, I want to do the math on what I take every day
04:58 < Diablo-D3> Im suspecting its around a dollar or so
05:06 < Diablo-D3> total is $3.05 a day....
05:06 < Diablo-D3> limiting to just what they're listing, about $1.04 give or take
05:23 -!- atomical [~atomical@209.153.22.182] has joined ##hplusroadmap
05:43 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r167-56-184-138.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap
05:46 -!- Filosofem is now known as JAwmare
05:46 -!- JAwmare is now known as Jawmare
05:49 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ruddlxpmlabjsoyy] has joined ##hplusroadmap
06:01 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r167-56-184-138.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
06:20 -!- AmbulatoryCortex [~Ambulator@173-31-155-69.client.mchsi.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap
06:21 < docl> UHV is really tough. it's basically impossible without baking, because air molecules have a nasty habit of adhering to surfaces. if you wanted to simulate space industrial conditions on earth, even without the low gravity / cold radiation, it's really hard to simulate the properties of an infinite vacuum chamber.
06:23 < kanzure> yea i was only looking at 10^-9 torr or something
06:26 -!- erasmus [~erasmus@unaffiliated/erasmus] has joined ##hplusroadmap
06:27 < kanzure> "Mixed signs of formation of a Bitcoin transaction fee market" http://rusty.ozlabs.org/?p=564
06:27 < kanzure> roadmap: https://bitcoin.org/en/bitcoin-core/capacity-increases
06:27 < kanzure> FAQ: https://bitcoin.org/en/bitcoin-core/capacity-increases-faq
06:29 < kanzure> "Estimating the NIH efficient frontier" http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0034569
06:30 < kanzure> "Is the FDA Too Conservative or Too Aggressive?: A Bayesian Decision Analysis of Clinical Trial Design" http://cancerx.mit.edu/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/FDATooConservativeBDA2015wp.pdf
06:30 -!- PatrickRobotham [uid18270@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cmxmsdplanbkppno] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
06:32 < kanzure> "A company called Sangamo in Richmond, California, has already used an older form of gene editing - based on zinc finger nucleases rather than CRISPR - to treat people with HIV. Immune cells were removed from the body, edited to make them resistant to the virus and then replaced, with promising results. Now Sangamo hopes to cure haemophilia B, a clotting disorder that can result in spontaneous internal bleeding, with the help of ...
06:32 < kanzure> ... customised zinc finger nucleases. Viruses will deliver genes coding for the nucleases and a corrected copy of the faulty gene to the liver. If the gene is inserted in the right place, the organ should start producing lots of clotting protein."
06:33 < kanzure> "Ronald Cohn wants to use CRISPR (see main story) to edit the genes of his friend's 13-year-old son, but he's running out of time. The boy, Gavriel, has Duchenne muscular dystrophy, a genetic disease in which muscles degenerate. Life expectancy with the condition is about 25 years. Gavriel was diagnosed at age 4. He has already lost the use of his legs but still has some movement in his upper body, and uses a manual wheelchair. Cohn, a ...
06:33 < kanzure> ... clinician at The Hospital for Sick Children in Toronto, estimates he has three years to develop and test a CRISPR-based treatment before he won't be able to help Gavriel. This week, his team described how they grew Gavriel's cells in a dish and used CRISPR gene-editing techniques to correct the mutation that causes his disease (The American Journal of Human Genetics, DOI: 10.1016/j.ajhg.2015.11.012)."
06:33 < kanzure> abstract http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26686765
06:33 < kanzure> "Spell Checking Nature: Versatility of CRISPR/Cas9 for Developing Treatments for Inherited Disorders." http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0002929715004577
06:34 < kanzure> "Here, to investigate the therapeutic potential of CRISPR/Cas9 in a diverse set of genetic disorders, we establish a pipeline that uses readily obtainable cells from affected individuals. We show that an adapted version of CRISPR/Cas9 increases the amount of utrophin, a known disease modifier in Duchenne muscular dystrophy (DMD). Furthermore, we demonstrate preferential elimination of the dominant-negative FGFR3 c.1138G>A allele in ...
06:34 < kanzure> ... fibroblasts of an individual affected by achondroplasia. Using a previously undescribed approach involving single guide RNA, we successfully removed large genome rearrangement in primary cells of an individual with an X chromosome duplication including MECP2. Moreover, removal of a duplication of DMD exons 18–30 in myotubes of an individual affected by DMD produced full-length dystrophin. Our findings establish the far-reaching ...
06:34 < kanzure> ... therapeutic utility of CRISPR/Cas9, which can be tailored to target numerous inherited disorders."
06:34 < kanzure> "Cohn says he plans to test the approach in mice with Gavriel's exact mutation before he applies for permission to try it on Gavriel. The research in human cells is so new that he has many unanswered questions. "That's what I'm losing sleep over." Should the approach work in mice, there are ways to get it into human cells. A gene therapy trial for muscular dystrophy is already under way and involves delivering the corrected gene inside ...
06:34 < kanzure> ... an inactivated virus. This could be repurposed to deliver the CRISPR system instead."
06:50 < kanzure> 6502/asm tutorial http://skilldrick.github.io/easy6502/
06:50 -!- erasmus [~erasmus@unaffiliated/erasmus] has quit [Quit: Namaste]
06:54 -!- PatrickRobotham [uid18270@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gegkqftntilfxwsq] has joined ##hplusroadmap
06:56 -!- atomical_ [~atomical@m925036d0.tmodns.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
07:00 -!- atomical [~atomical@209.153.22.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
07:02 < pompolic> oi
07:02 < pompolic> i remember that
07:02 < pompolic> it's good iirc
07:10 -!- atomical [~atomical@209.153.22.182] has joined ##hplusroadmap
07:14 -!- atomical_ [~atomical@m925036d0.tmodns.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
07:15 -!- FourFire [FourFire@cm-84.215.195.59.getinternet.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
07:19 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r167-56-184-138.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap
07:20 -!- FAMAS [~FAMAS@unaffiliated/famas] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
07:31 -!- FAMAS [~FAMAS@unaffiliated/famas] has joined ##hplusroadmap
07:31 -!- FAMAS [~FAMAS@unaffiliated/famas] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded]
07:55 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r167-56-184-138.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
07:55 -!- FourFire [~FourFire@192.40.88.19] has joined ##hplusroadmap
08:12 < kanzure> "Intrathymic transplantation of young, engraftable thymic epithelial cells promotes the growth and regeneration of the aging thymus (TRAN1P.932)" http://www.jimmunol.org/content/194/1_Supplement/140.14.short
08:13 < kanzure> "The thymus reaches its maximum size early in life and then begins to shrink, producing fewer T cells with increasing age. This thymic decline is thought to contribute to age-related T cell lymphopenias and hinder T cell recovery following bone marrow transplantation. While several cellular and molecular processes have been implicated in age-related thymic involution, their relative contributions are not known. Using heterochronic ...
08:13 < kanzure> ... parabiosis, we observe that young circulating factors are not sufficient to drive regeneration of the aged thymus. In contrast, we find that resupplying young, engraftable thymic epithelial cells to an aged or defective thymus leads to thymic regrowth and renewed T cell production. Intrathymic transplantation and in vitro colony forming assays reveal that the engraftment and proliferative capacities of thymic epithelial cells ...
08:13 < kanzure> ... diminish early in life, whereas the receptivity of the thymus to thymic epithelial cell engraftment remains relatively constant with age. These results support a model in which thymic growth and subsequent involution are driven by cell intrinsic changes in the proliferative capacity of thymic epithelial cells, and further show that young thymic epithelial cells can directly drive aged thymic regeneration."
08:13 < kanzure> "Regeneration of the aged thymus by a single transcription factor" http://dev.biologists.org/content/141/8/1627.short
08:14 < kanzure> "Here, we show that forced, TEC-specific upregulation of FOXN1 in the fully involuted thymus of aged mice results in robust thymus regeneration characterized by increased thymopoiesis and increased naive T cell output."
08:18 < kanzure> "So it would seem that at least 2 pathways exist for possible regeneration of the aged thymus in humans. This would seem to be essential for a human to escape the (otherwise inevitable) reduction in T-cell clonal diversity. Does anyone have any news of Greg Fahey’s trial?"
08:27 -!- atomical_ [~atomical@m925036d0.tmodns.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
08:29 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ruddlxpmlabjsoyy] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
08:31 -!- atomical [~atomical@209.153.22.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
08:32 -!- poppingtonic [~Thunderbi@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
08:44 -!- |node [uid125132@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xrsczrdpydndlxiq] has joined ##hplusroadmap
08:50 < docl> http://www.space.com/31444-spacex-falcon-rocket-landing-epic-photos.html
08:50 < docl> from what I hear, reusable launch craft will help lower launch costs substantially.
08:52 -!- ArturShaik [~ArturShai@37.218.157.155] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
08:54 -!- atomical [~atomical@209.153.22.182] has joined ##hplusroadmap
08:57 -!- atomical_ [~atomical@m925036d0.tmodns.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
09:08 -!- ArturShaik [~ArturShai@37.218.147.38] has joined ##hplusroadmap
09:21 < maaku> docl: that's an understatement
09:21 < xentrac> well, it's still quite uncertain
09:22 < maaku> of course but the raw bill of expendabable materials (including amortized replacements) for a aircraft-level of maintenance vehicle would be around $100k or so per launch
09:23 < maaku> they will not meet that. but will they get close? if it's even around a $1m things get very, very interesting
09:23 < xentrac> yeah.  the level of maintenance is the big unknown
09:24 < xentrac> who knows? maybe they will
09:24 < maaku> btw if you want to show your fandom: https://i.imgur.com/VJRRwvC.jpg
09:24 < maaku> ah i see that was in the spacex piece
09:32 -!- atomical_ [~atomical@209.153.22.182] has joined ##hplusroadmap
09:34 -!- atomical [~atomical@209.153.22.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
09:39 -!- nmz787_i [ntmccork@nat/intel/x-ipulrlzdyzjrxbea] has joined ##hplusroadmap
09:41 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r167-57-123-92.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap
09:44 -!- atomical [~atomical@m925036d0.tmodns.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
09:47 -!- atomical_ [~atomical@209.153.22.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
10:01 -!- JayDugger [~jwdugger@108.19.186.58] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
10:01 -!- JayDugger [~jwdugger@108.19.186.58] has joined ##hplusroadmap
10:15 < kanzure> i like the idea of pitching brain uploading as way to avoid healthcare costs. also sorta detracts from attempts to work on rare orphaned diseases, various cancers, aging/longevity. these problems are solvable but they are tough problems and it may ultimately be cumulatively easier to just focus on avoiding all of them.
10:15 < kanzure> oh also something about biological reliability (you know hearts are just going to explode at any moment, right? i think they call that a cardiac time stopping event or something- crazy).
10:16 < xentrac> there's probably a large contingent that will prefer to retain their biobodies as long as possible
10:17 < kanzure> i suppose ultimately it's the taxpayers (or insurance companies?) that bare these costs, so you can't really use that potential healthcare cost as motivation for funding of brain uploading
10:17 < kanzure> (maybe if you can convince healthcare insurance companies)
10:18 < eudoxia> I think Randal Koene basically made that argument
10:18 < eudoxia> literally "we should focus on mind uploading because starving children in africa"
10:19 < kanzure> yeah i don't think governments will be convinced by that argument (even if it's correct)
10:19 < xentrac> no, if governments cared about starving children in Africa, they wouldn't be starving
10:20 < kanzure> plus, as i said earlier, personal memories aren't that important; the first upload can be copied around a million zillion times and it will have its own new memories which will probably be okay.
10:20 -!- erasmus [~erasmus@unaffiliated/erasmus] has joined ##hplusroadmap
10:20 -!- zooko [~user@2601:281:8001:26aa:e943:9716:86b3:613b] has joined ##hplusroadmap
10:21 < kanzure> maaku: here, have some propaganda http://images.bwbx.io/cms/2012-09-13/features_elonmusk38__01__405inline.jpg
10:22 -!- atomical [~atomical@m925036d0.tmodns.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
10:22 -!- eragmus [~eragmus@c-73-150-48-166.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
10:24 -!- atomical [~atomical@m925036d0.tmodns.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
10:24 < kanzure> eragmus: greetings. meet your twin, erasmus.
10:24 < erasmus> evil twin
10:25 < maaku> kanzure: heh awesome
10:25 < kanzure> 10:15 < phantomcircuit> kanzure, afaict the people investing in high risk things are looking for 10x returns
10:25 < kanzure> 10:16 < kanzure> well "high risk" is relative though
10:25 < kanzure> 10:16 < phantomcircuit> 1000:1
10:25 < kanzure> 10:16 < kanzure> who's making these odds? or er.. what? how do you even compare risks.
10:25 < kanzure> 10:17 < phantomcircuit> kanzure, that's the part that separates rich vcs from other vcs
10:25 < kanzure> 10:18 < kanzure> phantomcircuit: but they don't chase risk, they chase traction.
10:25 < kanzure> 10:19 < phantomcircuit> kanzure, sure, but someone somewhere took a risk before there was any traction
10:25 < kanzure> 10:20 < kanzure> phantomcircuit: i don't know if that's true :-).
10:25 < nmz787_i> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecballium_elaterium
10:25 < kanzure> .wik
10:26 < yoleaux> Search for an article on Wikipedia
10:26 < nmz787_i> rapid plant movement... squirts its seeds out
10:26 < kanzure> .wik ecballium elaterium
10:26 < yoleaux> "Ecballium elaterium, also called the squirting cucumber or exploding cucumber (but not to be confused with Cyclanthera explodens), is a plant in the cucumber family." — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecballium_elaterium
10:29 < xentrac> a video of it just went viral among my Spanish-speaking queer friends under the title "plant bukkake"
10:31 < nmz787_i> lol
10:31 < nmz787_i> basically
10:31 < nmz787_i> xentrac: link
10:31 < xentrac> sorry, facebook is not good at those
10:34 < nmz787_i> how do I reply to a tweet to ask a followup question?
10:34 < nmz787_i> this link https://twitter.com/eevblog/status/452366940065906689
10:34 < nmz787_i> oh, I see a reply button
10:34 < zooko> You are invited to #bitcoin-wizards-offtopic.
10:34 < nmz787_i> but I need to login
10:35 < xentrac> oh hi zooko!
10:35 < eragmus> lol zooko
10:35 < xentrac> I didn't know you were in here
10:35 < kanzure> i have been trying to get xentrac into #bitcoin-wizards for a long time now
10:35 < eragmus> haha kanzure, hi erasmus my evil twin
10:36 < erasmus> eragmus
10:36 < eragmus> erasmus
10:36 < erasmus> snɯƃɐɹǝ
10:37 < eragmus> snɯsɐɹǝ
10:40 < kanzure> zooko: this was one of my patent reform proposals https://groups.google.com/d/msg/openmanufacturing/vS4ju1VqXb0/jD_TZ8U47b4J
10:41 < kanzure> and instead of using the patent system for drug development profit seeking, these proposals are somewhat unrefuted:
10:41 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/wiki/transcripts/open-science-summit-2010/aiden-hollis-health-impact-fund/
10:41 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/wiki/transcripts/open-science-summit-2010/jamie-love-knowledge-ecology-international/
10:41 < eudoxia> Google claims that thread is from 2014, but I recall reading it years prior
10:41 < xentrac> timeline slip
10:41 -!- jdqx_ is now known as jdqx
10:42 < kanzure> it's been more than a year since certain parts of 2014
10:42 < kanzure> so perhaps that's the origin of your confusion
10:42 < kanzure> since most parts of 2014.
10:42 < eudoxia> yes
10:49 < nmz787_i> jrayhawk_: a friend's wife is complaining to him about skipping meals, using this: http://www.livestrong.com/article/526247-what-effect-does-skipping-meals-have-on-the-body/      and I'm wondering if you have a similarly-writen web-page/write-up that might successfully counter these arguments or expand upon them
10:53 < Aurelius_Work2> nmz787_i : http://www.leangains.com/search/label/Diet%20Mythology
10:58 < AdrianG> lean gainz = lotsa drugz
10:59 < AdrianG> late night eating will just give you reflux at some point, thats all
11:00 -!- eragmus [~eragmus@c-73-150-48-166.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has left ##hplusroadmap []
11:02 < Aurelius_Work2> leangains isn't about drugs lol
11:05 < nmz787_i> i'm pretty sure jrayhawk_ disapproves of leangains material
11:06 < JayDugger> Only anecdotal, jrayhawk.
11:06 -!- zooko [~user@2601:281:8001:26aa:e943:9716:86b3:613b] has left ##hplusroadmap ["#bitcoin-wizards-offtopic"]
11:07 < JayDugger> I am quite happy with 19-5 intermittent fasting, but that hasn't convinced my spouse to do it, and so can't reasonably expect to affect someone else's wife's opinion.
11:08 -!- ArturShaik [~ArturShai@37.218.147.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
11:08 < JayDugger> Although I get a lot of schadenfreude from saying "Come on, you slowpoke. I'm twenty years older than you." to co-workers.
11:08 < xentrac> Do you think that's related to fasting 19 hours a day?
11:10 < JayDugger> Yes.
11:10 < xentrac> What was the change like when you started doing that?
11:11 < JayDugger> AFter the first two months, more energy, especially at the end of the fasting period.
11:11 -!- atomical_ [~atomical@209.153.22.182] has joined ##hplusroadmap
11:11 < JayDugger> That nicely explains having more vigor than younger co-workers. A happy coincidence of timing.
11:11 < kanzure> maybe you need better co-workers
11:12 < JayDugger> Agreed.
11:12 < xentrac> During the first two months, less energy?
11:12 < JayDugger> No, the first two months were the hardest part.
11:12 < JayDugger> After that, it seemed normal.
11:13 -!- atomical [~atomical@m925036d0.tmodns.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
11:13 < JayDugger> During that time I had a few odd symptoms, such as hunger pangs which came and went, and later temperature swings (mostly chills.)
11:13 < JayDugger> The first two or three days were the worst.
11:15 < xentrac> oh, that's interesting --- when I'm fasting, the first day is always easy
11:26 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
11:40 -!- PatrickRobotham [uid18270@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gegkqftntilfxwsq] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
11:45 < docl> http://home.cern/about/engineering/vacuum-empty-interstellar-space
11:45 -!- augur [~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
11:57 < nmz787_i> wow, just learned of this http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2015/12/15/459816939/natural-gas-leak-in-california-raises-health-environmental-concerns
11:57 < nmz787_i> """"When you're thinking about 50,000 kilograms per hour and the climate impact of that, it's like running all of the refineries in California side-by-side," says O'Connor. """
11:58 < docl> https://www.youmagine.com/design_ideas/cheap-diy-miniaturised-uhv-system
12:01 < nmz787_i> docl: small back-pack sized turbos exist commercially
12:01 < nmz787_i> or rather ones that fit into a backpack
12:01 < docl> how expensive?
12:02 < nmz787_i> no idea, new likely 5-10k
12:02 < nmz787_i> http://www.creare.com/services/fluid/minivac.html
12:02 < nmz787_i> NASA tech
12:02 < nmz787_i> that is smaller than what I was thinking
12:03 < nmz787_i> http://www.pchemlabs.com/product.asp?pid=2030
12:03 < nmz787_i> $8k
12:04 < nmz787_i> 10L/min would be useful for a very small chamber
12:04 < nmz787_i> oh, wait, 10L/min was the roughing pump they're saying to use
12:04 < nmz787_i> or is included
12:05 < nmz787_i> they;re quoting 36-60 L/min
12:05 < nmz787_i> pumpdown for 1L volume to 7x10^-5 mbar is 160 secs which isn't too bad
12:06 < nmz787_i> usable for basic SEM work
12:06 < nmz787_i> probably on the border for too high background for a mass spec
12:06 < nmz787_i> but you can just pump down more time... and add an ion trap
12:07 < nmz787_i> which can be relatively small (< 6 inches on  a side)
12:18 < docl> wonder what the scaling laws are here. can you evacuate really large chambers with really small pumps?
12:19 -!- atomical [~atomical@172.56.12.2] has joined ##hplusroadmap
12:23 -!- atomical_ [~atomical@209.153.22.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
12:25 < eudoxia> docl: are you looking do DIY the minimal toolset? c:
12:30 -!- jdqx [~jdqx@108-201-65-149.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
12:35 < docl> thinking about it.
12:37 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r167-57-123-92.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
12:48 -!- fleshtheworld [~fleshthew@2602:306:cf0f:4c20:f9af:e4d9:7d3:d8ae] has joined ##hplusroadmap
12:48 -!- cluckj [~cluckj@pool-108-16-231-242.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
12:53 -!- dcentral [~IGLC@2601:681:500:165a:5007:743a:99a9:5995] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
12:53 -!- triggerwarning [~IGLC@2601:681:500:165a:5007:743a:99a9:5995] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
13:07 -!- nmz787_i [ntmccork@nat/intel/x-ipulrlzdyzjrxbea] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
13:08 -!- atomical_ [~atomical@209.153.22.182] has joined ##hplusroadmap
13:12 -!- atomical [~atomical@172.56.12.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
13:23 < jrayhawk_> nmz787: http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=intermittant+fasting
13:23 < jrayhawk_> that livestrong thing is trying very, very aggressively to misprepresent the literature
13:25 < xentrac> nmz787: that sounds eminently usable
13:28 < jrayhawk_> that said, generally stress does not play well with IF
13:31 < xentrac> in what sense?
13:32 < jrayhawk_> corticosteroid-induced gluconeogenesis comes at the expense of lean mass
13:33 < xentrac> the idea of IF is to deplete your glycogen?  or cortisol etc. will induce gluconeogenesis even if your glycogen isn't depleted?
13:33 < kanzure> alright so what we really need to do is nominate someone to try an only-cortisol diet
13:34 < jrayhawk_> haha
13:35 -!- Aurelius_Work2 [~cpopell@209.48.69.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
13:36 < jrayhawk_> There are a lot of ideas in IF. AMPK, NRF2, taking a break from immunogenic agricultural waste packaged and sold as food, mitochondriogenesis, moving in and out of ketosis, etc.
13:38 < jrayhawk_> er, replace AMPK with authophagy
13:39 < jrayhawk_> autophagy
13:40 < jrayhawk_> "glycogen depletion" will have to be a bit more specific
13:41 < jrayhawk_> considering that the most relevant organ involved can't really be depleted
13:42 < xentrac> really?
13:44 < xentrac> I didn't know about Nrf2
13:44 -!- atomical [~atomical@172.56.12.2] has joined ##hplusroadmap
13:44 < jrayhawk_> i am not really big into modern IF research, so there's probably more benefits I don't know about
13:47 -!- atomical_ [~atomical@209.153.22.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
13:55 -!- atomical_ [~atomical@209.153.22.182] has joined ##hplusroadmap
13:58 -!- adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined ##hplusroadmap
13:58 -!- atomical [~atomical@172.56.12.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
14:14 < kanzure> "Thanks for these interesting reports, and for your interest in our trial. One advantage of our trial, of course, is that it, unlike the approaches you mentioned, can be implemented right now. So far, we are seeing no problematic side effects, and many ancillary benefits, some of which are really interesting and surprising. There are two cohorts.  The first cohort is at the 2.5 month point, and the second cohort hasn't started yet, so ...
14:14 < kanzure> ... it's still very early days for the trial. All in all, so far, so good!"
14:16 < Diablo-D3> [04:41:06] <jrayhawk_> considering that the most relevant organ involved can't really be depleted
14:16 < Diablo-D3> jrayhawk_: the.... liver?
14:19 -!- jtimon [~quassel@74.29.134.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:24 -!- nmz787_i [ntmccork@nat/intel/x-qfadslcdhflqrhcc] has joined ##hplusroadmap
14:27 < kanzure> "Optimal financing for R&D-intensive firms" http://rthakor.mit.edu/sites/default/files/documents/Pharma_Optimal_Capital_Structure_Theory_v9NEW.pdf
14:27 < kanzure> "This mechanism involves a put option on the firm’s value that has a digital option attached to it such that the firm’s insiders are long in the option and outside investors are short in the option over some range of firm values, whereas insiders are short in the option and outside investors are long in it for all other firm values."
14:28 < kanzure> "The core intuition behind the mechanism design is as follows. Firm insiders are asked to report how likely their additional R&D investment is to succeed, and are also asked to provide investors “insurance”, i.e., a put option, against the possibility that the firm’s R&D fails to achieve relatively high cash flows. The amount of insurance that insiders must provide is greater if the firm reports a higher probability that its ...
14:28 < kanzure> ... additional R&D investment will succeed. The mechanism thus deters insiders from misrepresenting themselves as having high probabilities of achieving very high cash flows, and (partially) protects investors against the firm’s failure to realize very high R&D cash flows."
14:28 < kanzure> "However, since R&D outcomes are uncertain, providing such insurance to investors is costly for the firm’s insiders. To offset this cost, the mechanism also includes a put option offered by the firm’s investors to the firm’s insiders, which insures the insiders against very low cash flows. That is, through the mechanism investors are provided a stronger assurance of a relatively high upside while insiders are provided stronger ...
14:28 < kanzure> ... protection against the downside.[12]"
14:29 < kanzure> "Thus, potential underinvestment in R&D is discouraged from both the standpoint of insiders underinvesting due to high possibility of failure, and investors underinvesting due to suspicion of too low a probability of very high payoffs (adverse selection)."
14:30 < kanzure> "We also relate these options to some recently proposed biopharma innovations like “FDA swaps” (see Philipson (2015)) and “phase 2 development insurance”."
14:30 < kanzure> fda swaps :|
14:38 -!- augur [~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
14:38 < kanzure> "a fda swap ... provides firms insurance against the failure of a drug to get FDA approval"
14:38 < kanzure> "Another innovation is “Phase 2 development insurance”, which is offered to small biotech firms in exchange for an equity stake in the firm, and pays out in the event that a drug candidate fails Phase 2 R&D trials."
14:41 < kanzure> "Hedging pipeline risk in pharma" http://assets1b.milkeninstitute.org/assets/Publication/Viewpoint/PDF/MI-FDA-Report.pdf (fda swap paper)
14:42 -!- nmz787_i [ntmccork@nat/intel/x-qfadslcdhflqrhcc] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
14:42 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
14:44 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap
14:46 -!- dcentral [~IGLC@2601:681:500:165a:a5d8:13aa:40bc:ad3f] has joined ##hplusroadmap
14:49 < kanzure> summary of that last link http://www.milkeninstitute.org/publications/view/691
14:51 < xentrac> kanzure: it kind of sounds like it will require the insiders to start with, personally, an amount of capital comparable to that of the investors
14:52 < xentrac> and if that's the case then maybe they should just take out a HELOC or something to fund their pharma venture instead of selling equity
14:52 < kanzure> yes but i wonder if equity investment counts as insider capital
14:52 < kanzure> if not, then i'm unsure where they think the insider capial is coming from
14:54 < kanzure> "Financing drug discovery via dynamic leverage" http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1359644615004560
14:54 < kanzure> "... However, issuing securitized debt generally requires collateral that generates a reliable and well-understood stream of cash flows such as an approved drug. Investments in early-stage biomedical projects usually yield no cash flow until they reach Phase IIb and, even then, they provide cash only sporadically (e.g. when they are out-licensed or sold). The unpredictability of the amount and timing of these cash flows suggests that the ...
14:54 < kanzure> ... megafund is impractical for portfolios exclusively focused on early-stage drug discovery and development. In this article, we extend the concept of the megafund to allow for time-varying amounts of debt or ‘dynamic leverage’, which can accommodate the startup phase of a fund focused purely on preclinical R&D and early-stage translational medicine. Dynamic leverage adjusts the amount of debt that a securitization vehicle can ...
14:54 < kanzure> ... sustain, based on parameters related to its default probability (the likelihood of the entity being unable to meet its payment obligations on a timely basis). It is directly tied to a second concept: ‘dynamic risk measurement’, in which the default risk of a bond is periodically measured via certain credit metrics and performance indicators. "
14:59 < xentrac> from Elon Musk founding the company I suppose
15:06 < Diablo-D3> I wonder if we can get elon musk to start a bioresearch company
15:31 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap
15:34 -!- atomical [~atomical@209.153.22.182] has joined ##hplusroadmap
15:34 -!- atomical_ [~atomical@209.153.22.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
15:35 < AmbulatoryCortex> Diablo-D3, actually kind of surprising he hasn't already, considering his mars plans
15:36 < AmbulatoryCortex> but perhaps we already have suitable crops and such for that
15:36 < Diablo-D3> well, as long as we don't end up showering the pacific with meatballs
15:36 < Diablo-D3> we should be fine
15:37 < AmbulatoryCortex> I wonder what the half-life of a pacific meatball would be
15:47 -!- atomical [~atomical@209.153.22.182] has quit [Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
15:48 -!- atomical [~atomical@209.153.22.182] has joined ##hplusroadmap
15:53 -!- andytoshi [~andytoshi@unaffiliated/andytoshi] has joined ##hplusroadmap
16:02 -!- jaboja [~jaboja@esd160.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined ##hplusroadmap
16:04 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:24 -!- drewbot [~cinch@ec2-54-163-118-160.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:25 -!- drewbot [~cinch@ec2-54-157-30-192.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap
16:33 -!- atomical_ [~atomical@209.153.22.182] has joined ##hplusroadmap
16:36 -!- atomica__ [~atomical@172.56.12.168] has joined ##hplusroadmap
16:36 -!- atomical [~atomical@209.153.22.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
16:39 -!- atomical_ [~atomical@209.153.22.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
16:45 -!- berndj [~berndj@azna.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
16:52 -!- berndj [~berndj@azna.co.za] has joined ##hplusroadmap
16:58 -!- atomical [~atomical@209.153.22.182] has joined ##hplusroadmap
16:58 -!- Gurkenglas [Gurkenglas@dslb-188-103-077-131.188.103.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
17:01 -!- atomica__ [~atomical@172.56.12.168] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
17:02 -!- atomical [~atomical@209.153.22.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
17:40 -!- triggerwarning [~IGLC@2601:681:500:165a:a5d8:13aa:40bc:ad3f] has joined ##hplusroadmap
17:41 -!- triggerwarning [~IGLC@2601:681:500:165a:a5d8:13aa:40bc:ad3f] has quit [Changing host]
17:41 -!- triggerwarning [~IGLC@unaffiliated/triggerwarning] has joined ##hplusroadmap
17:45 -!- yashgaroth [~yashgarot@2602:306:35fa:d500:f5e0:f867:a11d:8d52] has joined ##hplusroadmap
17:56 -!- Gurkenglas [Gurkenglas@dslb-188-103-077-131.188.103.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has joined ##hplusroadmap
18:02 -!- jaboja [~jaboja@esd160.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
18:18 -!- jaboja [~jaboja@esd160.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined ##hplusroadmap
18:41 < kanzure> "Have looked at the Wagers abstract to which reference is made below. Only the abstract.  Apriori it is not at all obvious that the SAME Factor or Factors that trigger one type of response (probably a macrophage based response in  a broader system incluind T cells) should trigger all the components of that System.  Specifically it is curious that the abstract conspicuously fails to mention which factor (factors) did not work…and leaves ...
18:41 < kanzure> ... the suspicion that GDF11 ..that they have focused upon is the ONE to which they refer….However, it is impossible to even begin to constructively speculate about the meaning of the limited abstract wording…on both grounds."
18:46 < kanzure> haha my boss says he worked for andy lo (author of those megafund papers)
18:46 < nmz787> finally got mupen64plus working with the new bluetooth controllers
18:50 -!- Gurkenglas [Gurkenglas@dslb-188-103-077-131.188.103.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
18:52 -!- PatrickRobotham [uid18270@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ixedrddgzanfoeik] has joined ##hplusroadmap
19:00 < kanzure> it was jojack though that recommended the andy lo papers to me
19:03 -!- nmz787_i [~ntmccork@134.134.139.72] has joined ##hplusroadmap
19:16 -!- Esmerelda [~andares@unaffiliated/jacco] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
19:24 -!- justanot1eruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap
19:25 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
19:25 -!- justanot1eruser is now known as justanotheruser
19:28 -!- Filosofem [~Jawmare@unaffiliated/jawmare] has joined ##hplusroadmap
19:31 -!- Jawmare [~Jawmare@unaffiliated/jawmare] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
19:39 -!- nmz787_i [~ntmccork@134.134.139.72] has left ##hplusroadmap []
19:49 -!- AmbulatoryCortex [~Ambulator@173-31-155-69.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20:55 -!- triggerwarning [~IGLC@unaffiliated/triggerwarning] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20:55 -!- triggerwarning [~IGLC@2601:681:500:165a:a5d8:13aa:40bc:ad3f] has joined ##hplusroadmap
20:56 -!- triggerwarning [~IGLC@2601:681:500:165a:a5d8:13aa:40bc:ad3f] has quit [Changing host]
20:56 -!- triggerwarning [~IGLC@unaffiliated/triggerwarning] has joined ##hplusroadmap
21:06 -!- Madplatypus [uid19957@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xwwezwoibokbmipq] has joined ##hplusroadmap
21:37 -!- Act [uid89656@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fgkufvrxlttahvor] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
22:12 -!- ArturShaik [~ArturShai@37.218.147.38] has joined ##hplusroadmap
22:16 -!- jaboja [~jaboja@esd160.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:39 < docl> http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/vacuum/tmpnotes.htm
22:48 < docl> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_snzYepQTjI
23:01 -!- yashgaroth [~yashgarot@2602:306:35fa:d500:f5e0:f867:a11d:8d52] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
23:13 < justanotheruser> http://arxiv.org/pdf/1512.05382v1.pdf
23:13 < justanotheruser> .title
23:13 < yoleaux> justanotheruser: Sorry, that doesn't appear to be an HTML page.
23:13 < justanotheruser> "Why scientific publications should be anonymous"
23:14 < justanotheruser> tl;dr: anonymously published papers are more objectively evaluated and scientists are biased
23:20 < AdrianG> big surprise there
23:20 < AdrianG> so a non-anonymous paper tells us to submit papers anonymously
23:21 < AdrianG> why didnt he start the trend?
23:25 < justanotheruser> probably because submitting anonymously is difficult
23:46 -!- FAMAS [~FAMAS@unaffiliated/famas] has joined ##hplusroadmap
23:51 -!- |node [uid125132@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xrsczrdpydndlxiq] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
23:54 -!- FAMAS2 [~FAMAS@103.198.139.33] has joined ##hplusroadmap
23:54 -!- FAMAS [~FAMAS@unaffiliated/famas] has quit [Disconnected by services]
23:54 -!- FAMAS2 [~FAMAS@103.198.139.33] has quit [Client Quit]
23:55 -!- FAMAS [~FAMAS@103.198.139.33] has joined ##hplusroadmap
23:55 -!- FAMAS [~FAMAS@103.198.139.33] has quit [Changing host]
23:55 -!- FAMAS [~FAMAS@unaffiliated/famas] has joined ##hplusroadmap
--- Log closed Thu Dec 24 00:00:45 2015