--- Log opened Fri Jan 01 00:00:52 2016
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06:20 < kanzure> so.... one reason to "read" the paper is because you were previously unaware of non-microcircuit neural pathways. this paper shows what they are.
06:20 < kanzure> i also think this is a good review of most of the projections and pathways, this is far fewer details than all the "brain regions" that they forced me to memorize in psychology classes
06:20 < kanzure> they should have instead spent their time having us memorize this stuff, this is far more relevant and interesting and useful
06:20 < kanzure> regarding the google maps stuff, yeah i didn't like how it uses google maps either
06:20 < kanzure> seems like something that is going to break eventually, what if google sunsets any of those APIs? that is not a good idea for a lasting scientific visualization.
06:20 < kanzure> and it's weird to use anyway
06:20 < kanzure> i backed it up and have all of its images http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/neuro/cognitiveconsilience/c_all/tiles/ but they are not stitched together yet
06:20 < kanzure> i also queried their "google fusiontables" endpoint and retrieved all of the data in what i can only assume was a sql database http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/neuro/cognitiveconsilience/fusiontables/2172063.dat.txt
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06:43 < TMA> kanzure: I do not have any better idea on how it was decided. The mechanism is simple fron the bureaucratic point of view: someone told "it will be so and so" and then it was enacted into law, passing intermediary stages on the way. It might even be the work of some Soviet advisor that presented the outline to the Czechoslovak Gosplan equivalent
06:45 < kanzure> if they weren't even trying to pick good answers, then i'm not sure using them as an example of the failure of planning is relevant. they essentially did no real planning.......
06:47 < TMA> from what can be observed from the outside, the plan emerged from a black box; it was then only officially sanctioned
06:56 < TMA> there was a whole ministry that made the plans. the problem is that the primary documents are not readily accessible nowadays (because they were made before computers were widespread) -- the only readily accessible documents are the five-year plan laws and the laws establishing the ministry and the planning committee
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06:58 < TMA> those laws, however, shed little light on the planning process itself (like enumerating the parts of a reprap down to a single washer and nut provide insufficient detail to build a reprap)
07:00 < TMA> in principle the primary materials shall be accessible in some archive
07:01 < TMA> or they might be destroyed already
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08:52 < CautiousNarwhal> What do you guys think of jason silva im curious
08:53 < CautiousNarwhal> Also happy new year
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11:06 < FourFire> hmm, it seems I just discovered rationalist tumblr
11:06 < FourFire> not sure whether I should back away and try to forget about it or keep reading :/
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12:13 < chris_99> .title https://twitter.com/benkrasnow/status/678784756205547520
12:13 < yoleaux> Ben Krasnow auf Twitter: "Casting silicone can capture *tiny* details. The SEM image is the silicone surface after peeling off the CD. https://t.co/lQGuy63zg3"
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12:30 < kanzure> "openworm 2015 review" http://us12.campaign-archive1.com/?u=eeeaea04e12e1bae5555780ec&id=0c4e016cec&e=bfbcde7ded
12:30 < kanzure> https://publish.illinois.edu/bradly-alicea/devoworm-project/
12:30 < kanzure> http://wormbook.org/chapters/www_neuronalgenome/neuronalgenome_fig2.jpg
12:30 < kanzure> http://github.com/openworm/channelworm
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12:37 < FourFire> > metabolic disprivelege lol
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13:08 < kanzure> http://moyix.blogspot.com/2014/07/breaking-spotify-drm-with-panda.html
13:08 < kanzure> .title https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10822244
13:08 < yoleaux> Reverse Engineering the GoPro Cineform Codec | Hacker News
13:30 < docl> metabolic privilege rocks. wish I had more of it.
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14:32 < kanzure> "turin advanced neuromodulation group" is the one that was planning a head transplant, i think
14:34 < kanzure> "Our ability to prioritize and process the news is in an autocatalytic, positive feedback loop in which we extend our brain both biologically and electronically. Surgery could extend our brain capacity from 1.2 kg to 50 kg (routine head loads of the Sherpas of Nepal). The rate of growth of neural systems could be as fast as the doubling time of human cells (about one day) with differentiation from generic stem cells to complex neural ...
14:34 < kanzure> ... nets recently engineered to occur in four days."
14:34 < kanzure> "With sufficiently intimate proximity of two or more kg-scale brains, the possibility of mind-backups might be closer than via cloning (which lacks neural copying) or via computer simulation (which requires deeper understanding than mere bio-copying and has a million-fold energy inefficiency relative to brains)."
14:34 < kanzure> was from george church ( http://edge.org/response-detail/26567 )
14:42 < chris_99> kanzure, do you know any decent alternatives to Wordpress out of interest
14:45 < kanzure> jekyll?
14:46 < chris_99> that looks interesting, but ideally i want something that has a web interface, to add media & pages, and allow comments
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15:25 < kanzure> hmph marblestone worked in church's lab.
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15:43 < kanzure> a46d0242496012179297ec6276865dcb609cfeef5164db95030b76c40cd75cd7
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19:22 < Pobway> transhumanism as a way for elite to control masses: thoughts?
19:22 < Diablo-D3> Pobway: well, if they're going to do it, I wish they'd do it already
19:23 < AdrianG> kanzure: you ever looked into hyperthymia
19:23 < Pobway> id say its kind of been in the making, seeds being planted. some weeds 2 deal with now.
19:25 < kanzure> .wik hyperthymia
19:25 < yoleaux> "Hyperthymic temperament, or hyperthymia, from Greek hyper ("over", meaning here excessive) + θυμός ("spirited"), is a proposed personality type characterized by an excessively positive disposition similar to, but more stable than, the hypomania of bipolar disorder." — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperthymia
19:25 < AdrianG> this snippet does not do it justice.
19:25 < kanzure> "a mild form of mild mania" yeesh
19:26 < AdrianG> it is not.
19:26 < AdrianG> its basically super-productive people who have tons of energy and live
19:26 < AdrianG> not function, live on 4-6 hours of sleep,. and then go-go-go like energizers bunnies.
19:27 < kanzure> neat
19:27 < AdrianG> mania implies impairement or something detrimental. not super-productivity.
19:27 < Pobway> some of my most productive times in life i have gone on 2 - 3 hours of sleep
19:27 < kanzure> really? i mean it seems like manic individuals get an awful lot done on the road to becoming jesus or whatever it is they claim.
19:27 < Pobway> for weeks at a time
19:27 < Pobway> not sure i could sustain it
19:27 < Pobway> apparently that was nikola teslas sleep pattern
19:28 < Pobway> it depends on what passion is driving us, and how committed we are 2 the seeing it thru
19:30 < FourFire> Pobway, oh hello
19:30 < Pobway> hoy :>
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19:31 < FourFire> Pobway, if transhumanism is about control, why does it give people willing to go to certain lengths new abilities?
19:31 < FourFire> surely a thing which was about control would lessen the abilities of those within it's thrall?
19:31 < Pobway> i wouldnt throw the baby out with the bathwater on any of my negative points against transhumanism
19:31 < FourFire> like... TV
19:32 < Pobway> i would say that it can be handled better. sails need to be changed direction basically, and captain changed
19:32 < FourFire> or... facebook games
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19:32 < FourFire> > https://xkcd.com/675/
19:32 < Pobway> right now it looks like a slippery slope. i see too many people stoked on it without enough thoght
19:33 < FourFire> who is "the captain" of transhumanism?
19:33 < Pobway> borg queen?
19:34 < FourFire> Pobway, oh for sure, sturgeons law holds as true for transhumanism as for any other human endeavour, most people talking about it are talking shit
19:34 < Pobway> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
19:34 < FourFire> Pobway, what "direction" do you see transhumanism taking?
19:35 < Pobway> have you played the game 'half life 2"?
19:35 < FourFire> I'll assume you've been primarily exposed to the futurologytards on reddit and similar clickbait photography fan websites like "IFLS"
19:35 < Pobway> i dont go to reddit
19:36 < FourFire> Not yet, maybe I'll have time next decade
19:36 < Pobway> and i dont know what IFLS is
19:36 < Pobway> ;p
19:36 < FourFire> I've gathered the plot points though: scientific experimentation, alternate universe, human good, technology bad, blah blah
19:36 < Pobway> assumptions and straw men will shut down reasonable inquiry fast tho
19:37 < Pobway> alternate universe? is that like the CERN conspiracies?
19:37 < Pobway> yea, let me repeat: i dont throw the baby out with the bathwater on any of my negative points against transhumanism
19:38 < Pobway> i simply speak what i feel are reasonable concerns
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19:38 < Pobway> theyre an interesting part of the subject to me
19:38 < FourFire> Pobway, I mean this: http://thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=youre_not_a_nerd
19:38 < docl> how do you assess how much thought people put into it before getting stoked?
19:39 < FourFire> of course I prefer websites which mindlessly glorify the popculture of scientific memes over the alternatives sportsball and everyone's favorite show "lol famous people"
19:39 < Pobway> ohh, 'i fucking love science' heheh
19:40 < Pobway> yea, that page is pretty goofy
19:40 < Pobway> i dont follow it
19:40 < FourFire> to some extent it's good that it exists, but it's existence also gets in the way of people wanting to get things done
19:41 < FourFire> I feel similarly about  "the big bang theory" (show)
19:44 < kanzure> do i need to ban this person
19:44 < FourFire> Pobway, maybe you could be less vague and, say point out some examples, perhaps in PM, perhaps tomorrow because I must sleep now
19:49 < Pobway> well i was just startin the conv, but sure sounds good! have a nice sleep :?
19:49 < Pobway> :> *
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19:52 < AdrianG> kanzure: manic individuals do make a lot.
19:52 < AdrianG> but what we call "mania" is quite frequently a mixed-state.
19:53 < AdrianG> memory and judgement could be impaired, etc.
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21:00 < Pobway> sup
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21:09 < xentrac> I realized tonight that we may have an existing technology capable of fabricating machinery with nanometer-scale features: glass fiber drawing
21:10 < xentrac> specifically http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/login.jsp?tp=&arnumber=64916&url=http%3A%2F%2Fieeexplore.ieee.org%2Fiel1%2F50%2F2351%2F00064916.pdf%3Farnumber%3D64916
21:10 < xentrac> Jansen 1991
21:11 < xentrac> it's not atomically precise, but it may be close enough
21:12 < xentrac> once you have the fiber with its complex cross section, you can cut it into flat sections a micron or two long and then assemble them
21:14 < xentrac> if your preform is 10mm wide and you draw it down to 10 microns wide, which is a thing that Corning does routinely, then features you machined in the preform with a precision of 10 microns would have a precision of 10 nanometers if there were no distortion
21:17 < xentrac> if you didn't need to use Jansen's technique to reduce distortion, then you could additionally give different surface chemistries to different parts of the preform, for example fluorinating most of it
21:21 < kanzure> surface patterning is often enough to get superhydrophobicity programming by patterning
21:22 < xentrac> yeah, but what I was thinking was that you might be able to get machine parts that you could snap together under a microscope and some of whose surface would be capable of selecting particular kinds of molecules by steric hindrance
21:23 < xentrac> maybe your yield would initially be low
21:36 < kanzure> what sort of things have we trapped using steric hindrance?
21:36 < kanzure> .wik steric effects
21:36 < yoleaux> "Steric effects arise from a fact that each atom within a molecule occupies a certain amount of space. If atoms are brought too close together, there is an associated cost in energy due to overlapping electron clouds (Pauli or Born repulsion), and this may affect the molecule's preferred shape (conformation) and reactivity." — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steric_effects
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21:43 < xentrac> steric hindrance is a primary consideration in any organic chemical reaction with molecules over about 50 daltons
21:44 < xentrac> like, almost any selectivity done by an enzyme is done by steric hindrance
21:44 < xentrac> at least that's how I understand it
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22:08 < kanzure> "DREADDs (Designer Receptors Exclusively Activated by Designer Drugs): Chemogenetic Tools with Therapeutic Utility" http://www.annualreviews.org/doi/abs/10.1146/annurev-pharmtox-010814-124803
22:08 < kanzure> "In the past decade, emerging synthetic biology technologies such as chemogenetics have dramatically transformed how pharmacologists and systems biologists deconstruct the involvement of G protein–coupled receptors (GPCRs) in a myriad of physiological and translational settings. Here we highlight a specific chemogenetic application that extends the utility of the concept of RASSLs (receptors activated solely by synthetic ligands): We ...
22:08 < kanzure> ... have dubbed it DREADDs (designer receptors exclusively activated by designer drugs). As we show in this review, DREADDs are now used ubiquitously to modulate GPCR activity noninvasively in vivo."
22:12 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/neuro/The%20will%20to%20persevere%20induced%20by%20electrical%20stimulation%20of%20the%20human%20cingulate%20gyrus.pdf
22:12 < docl> you could maybe feed a fiber through a system that repeatedly touches the tip to a surface, then breaks it off. this would be kind of like a print head, but with solid fiber instead of liquid ink. you could rotate it, angle it, etc. as you go.
22:13 < xentrac> yeah, that's an interesting idea too
22:14 < xentrac> but what I'm proposing is that glass fiber drawing can probably bootstrap molecular nanotechnology, today.
22:14 < docl> seems likely to me.
22:14 < kanzure> "Cognitive enhancement through real-time fMRI neurofeedback" http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2352154615000625 (sounds like a very general overview paper)
22:21 < docl> an automated system for turning fibers into complex surfaces combined with a drawing tower and uhv chamber (is desktop sized possible for both of those things?) would be a great starting point though... no need for tweezers and microscopes, just print and test based on simulations until you have something that gets the expected result.
22:23 < AdrianG> kanzure: nice paper
22:25 < kanzure> "Effects of strategy on visual working memory capacity" https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Jesse_Bengson2/publication/279727747_Effects_of_strategy_on_visual_working_memory_capacity/links/55b1248808ae092e964fe35d.pdf
22:28 < kanzure> .wik guanfacine
22:28 < yoleaux> "Guanfacine (brand name Estulic, Tenex and the extended release Intuniv) is a sympatholytic drug used in the treatment of attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) and hypertension (not to be confused with guaifenesin, an expectorant). It is a selective α2A receptor agonist." — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guanfacine
22:28 < kanzure> "Performance increases in spatial working memory have also been observed in humans.[15]"
22:29 < kanzure> "Guanfacine, but not clonidine, improves planning and working memory performance in humans" http://www.nature.com/npp/journal/v20/n5/full/1395310a.html
22:31 < kanzure> "The expected value of control: an integrative theory of anterior cingulate cortex function" https://ncclab.princeton.edu/files/2014/02/the-expected-value-of-control.pdf
22:32 < kanzure> "The dorsal anterior cingulate cortex (dACC) has a near-ubiquitous presence in the neuroscience of cognitive control. It has been implicated in a diversity of functions, from reward processing and performance monitoring to the execution of control and action selection. Here, we propose that this diversity can be understood in terms of a single underlying function: allocation of control based on an evaluation of the expected value of ...
22:32 < kanzure> ... control (EVC). We present a normative model of EVC that integrates three critical factors: the expected payoff from a controlled process, the amount of control that must be invested to achieve that payoff, and the cost in terms of cognitive effort. We propose that dACC integrates this information, using it to determine whether, where and how much control to allocate. We then consider how the EVC model can explain the diverse array of ...
22:32 < kanzure> ... findings concerning dACC function."
22:32 < kanzure> that is cool
22:34 < kanzure> "Double virus infection to the prefrontal network of the macaque brain" http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4507872/
22:34 < kanzure> "In this study, we used a double viral vector infection method in the prefrontal network of the macaque brain. This enabled us to express specific constructs into specific neurons that constitute a target pathway without use of germline genetic manipulation. The double-infection technique utilizes two different virus vectors in two monosynaptically connected areas. One is a vector which can locally infect cell bodies of projection ...
22:34 < kanzure> ... neurons (local vector) and the other can retrogradely infect from axon terminals of the same projection neurons (retrograde vector). The retrograde vector incorporates the sequence which encodes Cre recombinase and the local vector incorporates the “Cre-On” FLEX double-floxed sequence in which a reporter protein (mCherry) was encoded. mCherry thus came to be expressed only in doubly infected projection neurons with these vectors. ...
22:34 < kanzure> ... We applied this method to two macaque monkeys and targeted two different pathways in the prefrontal network: The pathway from the lateral prefrontal cortex to the caudate nucleus and the pathway from the lateral prefrontal cortex to the frontal eye field. As a result, mCherry-positive cells were observed in the lateral prefrontal cortex in all of the four injected hemispheres, indicating that the double virus vector transfection is ...
22:34 < kanzure> ... workable in the prefrontal network of the macaque brain."
22:34 < kanzure> science!
22:37 < AdrianG> guanfacine,heh.
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22:55 < Diablo-D3> [01:29:17] <kanzure> "Guanfacine, but not clonidine, improves planning and working memory performance in humans" http://www.nature.com/npp/journal/v20/n5/full/1395310a.html
22:55 < Diablo-D3> helllloooo intersting nootropic
22:56 < AdrianG> it a anti-hypertensive with its own side-effects.
23:04 < Diablo-D3> damnit.
23:04 < Diablo-D3> Always an unwanted side effect.
23:04 < AdrianG> thats how all drugs work.
23:20 < Diablo-D3> The official Latin nomenclature, Nomina Anatomica as ratified in Basel in 1895[38] and in Jena in 1935[39][40] contained the orthographic correct form locus caeruleus. The Nomina Anatomica published in 1955[41] inadvertently introduced the incorrect spelling locus coeruleus, without any further explanation. The subsequent edition monophthongized the diphthong, resulting in locus ceruleus,[42] as they proclaimed that: "All diphthongs should be elimin
23:21 < Diablo-D3> ated".[43]
23:21 < Diablo-D3> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Locus_coeruleus#Official_Latin_nomenclature
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--- Log closed Sat Jan 02 00:00:53 2016