--- Log opened Sun Jan 10 00:00:00 2016
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04:54 < FourFire> kanzure, why are you timelocked to 2008?
04:54  * FourFire instantly regrets asking.
05:05 < FourFire> maaku, interesting, you want to make narrow AI which can "solve biology", whereas I have the somewhat shorter term goal of making a tool which uses MD sims + genetic algorithm to design proteins which can perform arbitrary functions, and then using that tool to solve one particular problem/give it away to other people to solve those.
05:15 < kanzure> "reasoning" is not theorem proving or theorem reasoning.
05:34 < FourFire> maaku, do you have a roadmap of prerequisites, like http://www.agingchart.org/wiki/Main_Page ?
05:35 < FourFire> kanzure, what specific things do you think superstitious brain matter can do which computers can't?
05:35 < FourFire> surely it's just matter of software, or weird hardware which corrupts the software conbined with software which is incedibly fault tolerant
05:35 < FourFire> like the reverse of crypto-esolangas
05:36 < FourFire> the isomer of http://esolangs.org/wiki/malbolge
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06:55 < kanzure> i did not say "computers can't"
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07:12 < rhaps0dy> kanzure said dunno how to yet
07:12 < rhaps0dy> for example, convincingly talk to humans, or navigate an arbitrary earthly environment with a robot
07:17 < kanzure> i believe computers have been shown to do both of tohse things, actually.
07:17 < kanzure> *those
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07:24 < maaku> FourFire: I believe we are working on the same problem.
07:25 < FourFire> maaku, I'd love to collaborate, if possible.
07:25 < maaku> FourFire: and I am workong on AGI, not narrow-AI solution because given the complexity of the problem I believe that is actually faster
07:25 < FourFire> alright, I'll continue working on it from the other end, and whoever gets it first doesn't matter, because we all win.
07:26 < maaku> *complexity of the problem and my limited resources. If I was Google or IBM then I'd just throw a few billion at a narrow-AI solution (hey, maybe that's what OpenAI is doing)
07:26 < FourFire> maaku, you know of the agi-ai slack group?
07:26 < maaku> FourFire: I would be interested in collaborating. What do you mean working on it from the other end?
07:28 < FourFire> well you want general AI to do 100% of the designing process for you, I want to use statistical hacks and some neural network biasing of a genetic algorithm to (more efficiently than) brute force the searchspace of genes which can produce protein structures which can perform [fitness function]
07:29 < FourFire> a lot of the work is in designing the fitness function, and the raw computing power required, but it's a long temr project.
07:30 < FourFire> if I can make the tool good enough and easy enough to use then I can just chuck it at all the indefinite lifespan researchers I know and have them design fitness functions for various problems on the roadmap in parallel
07:31 < maaku> (although sadly my time is 100% occupied by other things--bitcoin--and my work towards this right now consists more of prodding other people in a direction that would be helpful towards the end goal)
07:31 < FourFire> alright, I'll return to trying to selfhack my productivity.
07:31 < maaku> Right I want a supercomputer that I can instruct, more or less literally, "design a process to clean up extracellular junk" and it does
07:31 < FourFire> aha
07:32 < FourFire> I want my tool for dna infomation retention mechanisms
07:32 < FourFire> I want to impliment RAID5 in DNA
07:33 < maaku> I have been successful in getting at least two AGI people working on aligned visions, and one of them funding via FLI
07:34 < FourFire> like if I was focused on your problem, I'd spend years each focusing on designing fitness functions for removing each individual molecule which is cellular junk, sdoit's lower level
07:34 < FourFire> cool, I'm not looking for funding yet, I'll let the channel know when I am.
07:34 < maaku> FourFire: yeah I want to replace "I'd spend years" with "I'd spend CPU years" because the latter scales better :)
07:38 < FourFire> maaku, why do you think I want to outsource the actual design problem to a genetic algorithm?
07:59 < maaku> FourFire: why does it matter?
07:59 < maaku> oh I perhaps I misread you
08:00 < maaku> I'm not clear on your exact strategy, but if there are ways to collaborate I would like to
08:00 < FourFire> if I wanted to design a novel cellular mechanism from scratch manually, it might take me my whole life, given I had a Ph.D equivalent knowledge on the subject of cellular chemistry today.
08:01 < maaku> FourFire: regarding productivity, I think I pointed you at GTD in the past. You take a crack at that?
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08:02 < FourFire> No, I have been following a different method for increasing productivity; peer pressure with weekly videoconferencing checkups on goals attained and not.
08:03 < FourFire> there is substantial overlap with the techniques employed by the weekly checkups, and GTD
08:03 < maaku> that sounds complementary -- i would recommend using some sort of distributed cognition task management system though
08:04 < FourFire> such as?
08:04 < FourFire> not entirely sure what that is.
08:05 < maaku> "distributed cognition" is a psych term for "out of your head" aka "write stuff down" :)
08:06 < maaku> I personally kinda cruised through college keeping it all in my head, which worked because college wasn't so hard.
08:07 < FourFire> right, yeah I've been very bad at using even simple tools like that, I imagine kanzure gets tremedeous benefit from his lifelogging efforts being able to just mentally dump anything
08:07 < maaku> I didn't start to really do well professionally until I started keeping my task lists in some trusted medium outside of my head, as then I was no longer constrained by my mental capacity in terms of what level of work I could take on
08:07 < maaku> Doesn't have to be GTD, but do something.
08:07 < FourFire> Yep.
08:09 < maaku> Even a pocket notebook would put you above most people
08:09 < maaku> And I believe that's what fenn does
08:09 < JayDugger> The pocket notebook?
08:10 < maaku> JayDugger: a moleskin notebook as a task list + life logger
08:10 < rhaps0dy> kanzure: not satisfactorily well
08:10 < maaku> the life logger part never worked for me though
08:10 < rhaps0dy> kanzure: Not as well as humans.
08:10 < FourFire> I have a full sized notebook in my backpack (which I have with me at all time) but haven't really used it for much besides clarifying the design of the custom PC case i am building
08:11 < FourFire> rhaps0dy, depends on the vehicle
08:11 < maaku> FourFire: you can do this with a physical notebook, and it'd make you tremendously productive : https://hamberg.no/gtd/
08:12 < rhaps0dy> FourFire: which vehicle does better than humans in arbitrary earthly environments?
08:12 < JayDugger> FourFire, see also Lion Kimbro's "How To Make A Complete Map Of Every Thought You Think."
08:12 < maaku> (physical notebooks have the awesome property that they don't distract you into tool-tweaking productivity porn)
08:12 < FourFire> rhaps0dy, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qah8oIzCwk
08:12 < rhaps0dy> maybe a submarine? But it still requires huamn guidance
08:12 < maaku> rhaps0dy: define "better"
08:12 < maaku> safer? I'd trust current self-driving vehicles over actual people
08:12 < rhaps0dy> Not in a forest
08:13 < rhaps0dy> I'd trust current self-driving vehicles over actual people too
08:13 < JayDugger> Well...no, but they are much more resistant to tool-tweaking productivity porn than computers, and they enjoy wider social acceptance.
08:14 < JayDugger> You can escape a boring meeting by note-making with pen and paper, but less so with a laptop or phoen.
08:14 < JayDugger> phone, rather.
08:14 < FourFire> JayDugger, if possible I will eventually use an AR display.
08:14 < rhaps0dy> FourFire: Aha. It avoids obstacles. I don't know if it goes from A to B.
08:14 < rhaps0dy> amazon drones probably do that though
08:14 < rhaps0dy> hmm
08:14 < FourFire> rhaps0dy, that problem is even more trivial and has been solved long ago
08:14 < FourFire> like, 2010
08:14 < JayDugger> I think you might have to wait for better displays for it, but I don't know.
08:15 < FourFire> JayDugger, yeah expect a usable display in H2 2017
08:15 < JayDugger> I've not played with any such and know little about what's available.
08:15 < JayDugger> H2?
08:15 < JayDugger> Second half?
08:15 < FourFire> Y
08:17 < JayDugger> Why then?
08:21 < maaku> Google Glass v2 I presume
08:21 < maaku> (guessing)
08:22 < JayDugger> Oh? I didn't know it had a release date. Good to know.
08:24 < maaku> i don't think it does
08:24 < maaku> although that's a reasonable timeframe. not sure what FourFire was referring to
08:24 < JayDugger> Fair enough.
08:25 < FourFire> not gg
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08:46 < fenn> FourFire: i use a 14x19 cm flexible notebook and i always keep it in my pocket with a pen
08:47 < fenn> it has a pocket that's just the right size for index cards, which is where i put todo list and other lists
08:47 < chris_99> on the topic of notebooks does anyone use one of those 'smart pens'
08:52 < JayDugger> Such as LiveScribe?
08:53 < chris_99> yup, or inkling
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08:58 < JayDugger> I've only seen them used once. I've no experience with them.
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09:00 < JayDugger> What paper note-taking I do happens with a regular pen on unruled full-size paper, with a ISO 8601 timestamp at the head of each entry. Every two weeks or so I send them off to a scanning service.
09:00 < chris_99> ah nice
09:00 < chris_99> i was looking into smart pens a while back, the inkling looks cool, in that you don't need dotted paper, but then you need a little box to clip on to it
09:00 < JayDugger> It has its merits, but it also has drawbacks.
09:02 < JayDugger> I tend pretty fussy about how pens feel in the hand, so the smart pens didn't do me much good.
09:02 < chris_99> ah gotcha
09:02 < chris_99> yeah they look kind of bulky
09:02 < JayDugger> Lightweight tablets are almost good enough, but not quite yet.
09:03 < JayDugger> I tried with a Thinkpad X61, but it was much too heavy and bulky. The MS Surface Pro 3 is almost there, just a little too small.
09:04 < JayDugger> And tablets are normal enough now that you dont' break "protective coloration" and draw too much attention with one.
09:04 < JayDugger> But there's always writing on the back of your hand.
09:04 < chris_99> heh
09:04 < JayDugger> Hard to lose, you know?
09:04 < chris_99> mmm
09:05 < JayDugger> Okay, hard to lose, prosthetics aside.
09:05 < chris_99> hehe
09:06 < JayDugger> Hard copy notes tend to share easily, even as simple photocopies.
09:06 < JayDugger> s/tend to/also/
09:07 < JayDugger> Most anyone can handle a written instruction.
09:07 < JayDugger> instruction or record, rather. Okay two mistakes in a row. Time for bed.
09:07 < JayDugger> Good night, all.
09:07 < chris_99> night
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09:24 < maaku> huh. wonder what timezone that is
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09:41 < kanzure> maaku: my problem with task management systems is that they primarily serve to help fix forgetfulness. but forgetfulness isn't really the problem, is it....
09:42 < kanzure> maaku: nah he's just on a different sleep/wake schedule.
09:43 < kanzure> "Bibliogifts in LibGen? A study of a text-sharing platform driven by biblioleaks and crowdsourcing" http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/asi.23445/abstract
09:43 < pasky> for me, sometimes so much piles up that i need to laid out all the tasks to prioritize; i have my mailbox for not forgetting stuff :)
09:43 < kanzure> "The 25 million documents (42 terabytes) it hosts and distributes for free are mostly research articles, textbooks, and books in English. By relating the DOIs registered at CrossRef and those cached at LibGen, this study reveals that 36% of all DOI articles are available for free at LibGen. This figure is even higher (68%) for three major publishers: Elsevier, Springer, and Wiley."
09:44 < maaku> kanzure: it's not forgetfulness for me, it's clearing my mind of all the other shit I'm working on so I can focus
09:44 < maaku> I suppose adderall is the other solution
09:45 < kanzure> adderall is helpful but context switching still has cost
09:47 < maaku> kanzure: without a system, I experience the inefficiency of context switching nearly constantly
09:48 < kanzure> seems that eleitl spotted that article a few minues ago https://www.reddit.com/r/Scholar/comments/40c54k/bibliogifts_in_libgen_a_study_of_a_textsharing/
09:48 < maaku> as I mentally juggle all the things I'm working on while actually trying to focus on one, which doesn't work well
09:49 < maaku> kanzure: behind a paywall. how appropriate, lol.
09:49 < kanzure> maaku: perhaps the solution is to pipe all todo list items into an irc bot to ask annoying questions. then after infuriating the developer sufficiently with nagging worthless agitprop questions, the developer would then have dropped context on the previous thing, and had already pre-cached some of the context for this next thing.
09:50 < kanzure> gmaxwell mentioned once that he tries to do his own effort allocation based on a roundrobin load balancing scheme.
09:52 < kanzure> also, it seems reasonable to conclude that if things are constantly requiring your direct full attention, that you have failed to setup things correctly, i guess.
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10:20 < kanzure> graft/transplated organs do not experience rejuvenation effects when put into children http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/hpb.12339/abstract http://europepmc.org/abstract/med/9361925 at least for liver and kidney transplants
10:24 < Diablo-D3> Im assuming said organs come from older patients?
10:24 < kanzure> "Marius Wernig told me transplanted fetal dopamine neurons into Parkinson patients age faster than expected, implicating the niche/milieu/system"
10:33 < streety> kanzure: I'm not sure the citation for the kidney is fully equivalent to the statement you made. You may be right, but an increased rejection rate does not imply no rejuvenation in those organs not rejected
10:36 < streety> It is still not certain but consensus definitely seems to be leaning towards the view that podocytes, once lost, do not regrow. Lose enough and you lose the glomeruli and the nephron.
10:52 < nsh> what's a dopamine neuron?
10:54 < kanzure> probably refers to a neuron where the primary neurotransmitter activity is dopamine. but sometimes used to refer to excitatory vs inhibitory neurons.
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12:48 < fenn> .title
12:48 < yoleaux> Significance of the donor age effect on kidney transplants. - Abstract - Europe PubMed Central
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15:31 < nmz787> .wik Chemical-mechanical_planarization
15:31 < yoleaux> "Chemical Mechanical Polishing/Planarization is a process of smoothing surfaces with the combination of chemical and mechanical forces. It can be thought of as a hybrid of chemical etching and free abrasive polishing." — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical-mechanical_planarization
15:50 < Jawmare> this biochem course is retarded
15:50 < Jawmare> we are asked to write a reflection piece after every chapter
16:01 < xentrac> seems like a good idea
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16:04 < kanzure> Jawmare: this may be helpful for that course http://www.genome.jp/kegg/pathway.html
16:07 < Jawmare> kanzure, not really... we are still doing acid/base/buffer and thermodynamics/kinetics
16:09 < Jawmare> http://pastie.org/10682604
16:09 < Jawmare> thats the list of topics
16:21 < nmz787> I remember biochem being so damn fast-paced
16:21 < nmz787> and I think I took 2 or 3 quarters of it
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17:53 < nmz787> kanzure: i am playing with pdfparanoia to remove my IP address from a watermark
17:54 < nmz787> should I work in a github fork, and then pull-request you to get the plugin added? I am not sure what/if there is an existing pattern to give the plugin the IP address
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18:23 < kanzure> nmz787: most of te plugins strip any watermark with any ip address. they are usually based on a specific pdfobject in the pdf file at a certain location, so the actual content is never checked by pdfparanoia......
18:25 < atomical> |node
18:27 < atomical> |node
18:27 < atomical> |node
18:29 < nmz787> kanzure: yeah I see that now, the search string in this case has a different organization, even though it is an AIP paper
18:29 < nmz787> it says: Redistribution subject to AVS license or copyright; see http://scitation.aip.org/termsconditions
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18:32 < nmz787> http://diyhpl.us/~nmz787/pdf/Gas-assisted_focused_electron_beam_and_ion_beam_processing_and_fabrication___clean.pdf
18:32 < nmz787> http://diyhpl.us/~nmz787/pdf/Gas-assisted_focused_electron_beam_and_ion_beam_processing_and_fabrication.pdf
18:32 < nmz787> actually
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18:35 < kanzure> to figure out how to remove the watermark, basically just randomly delete stuff from the pdf, like 50% of the objects, save the file while keeping your editor open, then check the file to see if the watermark was removed. if not, then you know it wasn't in those 50%, it's in the other 50%.
18:36 < nmz787> nah just modifying the string in aip.py did the trick
18:39 < nmz787> I guess the phrase string could be copied and AVS substituted for AIP, then the following if statement have an OR in it
18:56 < atomical> |node
18:56 < atomical> |node
18:56 < atomical> |node
18:56 < kanzure> scihub claims "Now more than 47,000,000 papers"
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20:35 < AdrianG> isnt it very easy to remove watermarks?
20:36 < AdrianG> i had an editor that removed very easily, you just select the object, and delete it. worked well for most watermarked items.
20:36 < AdrianG> it was nitroPDF, i think.\
20:43 < juri_> http://faikvm.com/20160102_184234.jpg
20:43 < juri_> kanzure: ^--
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20:44 < juri_> I designed and built a BIG 3d printer / lasercutter.
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21:02 < justanotheruser> nice
21:22 < kanzure> needs more yellow tape
21:25 < AdrianG> whats the precision?
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21:27 < juri_> dunno. haven't measured. i keep finding things to upgrade/fix after each cut/print...
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21:45 < heath> [6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~/win 4
21:45 < juri_> ok then.
21:56 < Stskeeps>  
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--- Log closed Mon Jan 11 00:00:01 2016