--- Log opened Sat Feb 06 00:00:25 2016
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04:10 < archels> so I looked a little closer into noninvasive glucose monitors, apparently most if not all of it is vapourware
04:10 < archels> http://www.mendosa.com/The%20Pursuit%20of%20Noninvsive%20Glucose,%20Fourth%20Edition.pdf
04:10 < archels> 2013 review file:///tmp/diagnostics-03-00385.pdf
04:10 < archels> er
04:12 < archels> https://www.google.nl/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=10&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwibxpOZjOPKAhWDHQ8KHZrwDaoQFghbMAk&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mdpi.com%2F2075-4418%2F3%2F4%2F385%2Fpdf&usg=AFQjCNG1iqZhfyy5ymXfG5hokHw4ZUhnFw
04:13 < archels> so let's get on with developing long-term implants instead
04:31 < streety> something I have been considering lately is whether there would be a market for finger stick based diagnostics for anything else
04:31 < streety> glucose and ketones are as far as I know the only two that are sold in this way
04:32 < streety> there are the dipstick style measurements as well
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04:55 < streety> https://www.tohoku.ac.jp/en/news/research/non_invasive_measurement_of_blood.html just hit my inbox
04:56 < streety> along with "Some People with BMIs Categorizing Them As Overweight or Obese May Actually Be Healthy, Study Suggests" surprise surprise
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06:38 < archels> hmm, so it measures inside the mouth
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07:08 < kanzure> http://neuroscience.berkeley.edu/2016-neuro-inspired-computational-elements-workshop/
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08:43 < streety> whether measuring inside the mouth is the key to good performance or just a new take on the existing vaporware I don't know
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09:22 < CautiousNarwhal> hi
09:28 < Guest34917> archels a friend of mine worked on a startup doing surface contact measurement using Riemann spectroscopy
09:28 < Guest34917> Company went bellyup waiting for regulatory approval, but he claims it worked reliably
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09:37 < CautiousNarwhal> do you guys think it would be awesome to have an online platform for biohacking? ive been contacted by a startup company to help them build one and i was thinking i'd ask here because you guys are so insightful. what would you guys like to see in an online community for biohacking?
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09:39 < kanzure> knowledge, experience.
09:40 < kanzure> money- people who build equipment, people who do things.
09:43 < CautiousNarwhal> kanzure that is exactly what I want. people that do things. Im thinking if the space is made for them they will come. so the platform to have various intellectual tools integrated like visual labs (circuit simulators, molecule editors)...
09:44 < kanzure> nope, spaces are irrelevant; what matters is creating the people.
09:44 < kanzure> there are millions of spaces already setup, so many people keep creating new forums over and over again, it doesn't work, nobody cares, stop trying and i hate you all
09:45 < CautiousNarwhal> lmao
09:45 < CautiousNarwhal> how do we create the people then?
09:47 < CautiousNarwhal> education through online sources only goes so far
09:47 < kanzure> well i have tried yelling at people a lot, this seems to work part of the time
09:48 < CautiousNarwhal> haha
09:49 < kanzure> bombs away, http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2016-February/012369.html
09:59 < JayDugger> Does that count as yelling at people working part of the time?
10:00 < archels> Guest34917: get him to release the design as open source and/or just make the damn thing in China and sell it himself
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10:01 < Guest34917> Eh he doesn't own the IP, just an early emplyee
10:03 < JayDugger> Because that looked suspiciously like a calm, serious, well-reasoned argument.
10:08 < chris_99> you mean raman spectroscopy Guest34917?
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13:15 < fenn> "GlucoWatch measurements were usually consistent with traditional finger-prick tests, but results different by 30 percent or more one-fourth of the time, especially at low glucose levels."
13:15 < fenn> The company site says that it "shuts off early about 25% of the time." It has "certain problems (for example, dislodging the GlucoWatch from your skin) can cause the system to shut off glucose monitoring completely."
13:16 < fenn> i talked with someone who worked at glucowatch and he said it worked
13:18 < fenn> the company had long since gone out of business so there was no reason for him to lie about it
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13:21 < fenn> hmm the glucowatch sensor was used up after 13 hours and cost $7.50 so it would have been $5k/year just for continuous measurement
13:22 < streety> working only 75% of the time when you need it most is not a fantastic definition of it working
13:23 < fenn> i feel like problems with bumping the watch during measurement could have been worked out eventually
13:24 < streety> it doesn't sound like that is the only issue with the measurements though
13:33 < fenn> wow this mendosa guy sure is bitter
13:34 < fenn> er, i mean "john l. smith" author of "the pursuit of noninvasive glucose"
13:52 < kanzure> :o "As I said, there are people who have said they will spin up thousands of full nodes to help prevent possible Sybil attacks"
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14:12 < cluckj> 2 sensor changes a day for 24 hour coverage?
14:12 < cluckj> that's nuts
14:12 < fenn> not really
14:12 < fenn> it's just not ideal
14:12 < cluckj> there's site fatigue too, where the skin gets too irritated to use the same spot
14:13 < fenn> yes
14:14 < cluckj> there's a kind of invasive glucose monitor that is out in the UK right now
14:14 < cluckj> http://diatribe.org/abbott-freestyle-libre-transforming-glucose-monitoring-through-utter-simplicity-fingersticks
14:16 < cluckj> it doesn't provide the sheer number of data points that something like dexcom does, but it's accuracy is equivalent to a finger stick (apparently)
14:17 < fenn> "The sensor remains inserted for 14 days" yeegh
14:18 < cluckj> it's not so bad
14:18 < cluckj> a scab forms around the insertion site
14:18 < cluckj> I usually keep my sensors in for 2+ weeks at a time
14:19 < streety> not just sensor changes for the glucowatch but two devices are needed for 24 hour coverage. The first 3 hours are unusable apparently
14:19 < cluckj> yucko
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14:20 < cluckj> no wonder it failed
14:22 < cluckj> I didn't realize they made blood ketone meters that work off finger sticks
14:22 < cluckj> that's great!
14:22 < cluckj> the urine dipsticks are terrible
14:24 < fenn> summary of why glucowatch failed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cygnus_Inc
14:25 < kanzure> what does john gilmore have to do with that? what
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14:25 < cluckj> the "according to the company..." is nice
14:25 < fenn> what does john gilmore have to do with what?
14:26 < cluckj> what?
14:26 < kanzure> when did cygnus get into biotech? wtf is this
14:26 < kanzure> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Gilmore_(activist)
14:26 < cluckj> wrong cygnus
14:26 < kanzure> what?
14:26 < kanzure> god damn it
14:26 < fenn> cygnus is a constellation
14:26 < kanzure> ugh
14:26 < cluckj> ^
14:27 < fenn> it's like how samsung and mitsubishi mean the same thing
14:29 < cluckj> archels, I think long-term implantables are in the pipeline for the companies that make the short-term ones
14:30 < fenn> are there really not any implantable wireless glucose sensors?
14:30 < cluckj> they're all semi-implanted with the sensor in the body and transmitter outside
14:30 < fenn> why?
14:30 < cluckj> the reagents on the sensors degrade
14:31 < streety> the ketone finger sticks are ~$3 each but definitely available, even on amazon and the like
14:32 < cluckj> some folks have hacked on the dexcom to make the sensors last a month or two, but it really really depends on the particular sensor
14:32 < cluckj> sometimes they last 2 weeks, sometimes they can last for 3 months
14:33 < cluckj> by "make them last" I mean use medical adhesives, tape, and custom software without built-in failure modes
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15:20 < kanzure> https://git.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/LinusTalk200705Transcript
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16:57 < kanzure> more crispr drama http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-hiltzik-20160206-column.html
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18:41 < kanzure> "Cpf1 Is a Single RNA-Guided Endonuclease of a Class 2 CRISPR-Cas System" http://www.cell.com/abstract/S0092-8674(15)01200-3
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18:43 < streety> is there anything actually new in the latimes article? Just a rehashing of the same story doing the rounds for weeks?
18:44 < streety> any ideas on what the colorful item on the top shelf at the left might be?
18:58 < kanzure> yea same story
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--- Log closed Sun Feb 07 00:00:26 2016