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04:44 < nsh> .date
04:44 < nsh> yoleaux!
04:44 < yoleaux> nsh!
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07:41 < JayDugger> Thank you for that link, Superkuh. The video doesn't convince me (that actor's a  ham), but it seems perfectly possible.
07:42 < JayDugger> I wonder how much difference people can tolerate between visual motion cues and vestibular cues from that headset and goggles combination.
07:43 < kanzure> http://maybelogic.blogspot.co.uk/2009/04/robert-anton-wilson-on-finnegans-wake.html
07:43 < kanzure> "Murray Gell-Mann, the Nobel Prize winner, got his three-quark model out of FW."
07:45 < kanzure> http://www.finwake.com/
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07:47 < JayDugger> Ah, nice. Wasn't Patrick Gunkel a fan too? (Never did track him down.)
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10:31 < maaku> i got around to reading that Cuneiform paper and was rather disappointed that their solution to "nobody preserves the hardware code executes on!" is "let's design a new VM nobody will use!"
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12:03 < kanzure> frankly my solution of forcing people to stop making software seems much more stable
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12:11 < kanzure> maaku: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11512892
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12:50 < maaku> uh, even more of missing the picture
12:51 < maaku> these archival people should take a cue from the game emulation community
12:51 < maaku> and start archiving emulations of various compute platforms in that way
12:51 < kanzure> there was a game emulation project to make a single platform for a bunch of emulators,
12:52 < kanzure> openemu?
12:53 < kanzure> hmm no that doesn't look right
12:53 < maaku> why have a single platform?
12:53 < maaku> i don't understand that
12:53 < kanzure> this one https://github.com/libretro
12:54 < kanzure> http://www.libretro.com/index.php/mission/
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12:57 < maaku> yeah still don't get it. you're not going to have more than a handful of programs ported to any arch
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12:57 < maaku> a digital archival movement is a good thing. but it should work to increase the resiliance of the network of emulators, not try to force push everything onto some made up arch no one uses
12:59 < pasky> my most favorite retro thing was a pdp/11 emulator that let me bootstrap 2.11 BSD UNIX
12:59 < kanzure> obv. the correct solution is to reimplement everything as bitcoin script and just pay the blockchain to store the data forev-----
13:00  * kanzure is killed by a thousand bitcoin developers at once
13:01 < pasky> super mario blockchain?
13:03 < maaku> kanzure: killed? i think your average "bitcoin developer" is working on exactly that ;)
13:05 < kanzure> these are the kinds of things that incentives people like us to invent novel and exotic versions of the guillotine
13:09 < nmz787_i> kanzure: used that retroarch?
13:09 < nmz787_i> seems like it might be worth trying to get running on my old eeepc or maybe a raspi
13:10 < maaku> Guillotine? That's so crude. Better and cleaner to just reprogram what their brains want to do.
13:17 < catern> maaku: libretro is just a uniform interface to a bunch of different emulators
13:17 < catern> what's the alternative to "pay the blockchain to store data forever" for data durability?
13:18 < maaku> catern: task one is to prove that "pay the blockchain to store data" actually works
13:18 < maaku> (it doesn't)
13:27 < kanzure> plus, reorgs
13:27 < kanzure> nmz787_i: nope i haven't used libretro
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13:42 < archels_> https://wiki.conreality.org/images/cpaf-640x252.jpg
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16:15 < _0bitcount> Is this channel a good place to chat about economics, especially in relation with technology?
16:21 < maaku> probably not?
16:26 < catern> _0bitcount: if you find a good place, I would like to hear about it
16:26 < catern> i have long sought such a place
16:27 < catern> maaku: here is probably as good as any? assuming _0bitcount means interesting economics rather than garbage economics
16:28 < _0bitcount> Well I recently finished Jeremy Rifkin's "The Zero Marginal Cost Society" and I have mixed feelings about the author's predictions.
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16:31 < maaku> catern: there was a '?' at the end of my sentence
16:32 < catern> ok, ok
16:32 < catern> a reasonable prior
16:33 < catern> _0bitcount: you would have to summarize those predictions to discuss them, since some (including me) have not read that book
16:33 < maaku> it's not off topic per se, but this channel is meant for more of the 'unsticking work' type of conversation, which far flung economic prognostication usually is not
16:34 < _0bitcount> catern, basically Rifkin predicts a great societal change over time, in which "production in the commons", like in FOSS, will be the norm...
16:35 < _0bitcount> ... and capitalism will only inhabit a few niches in the global economy.
16:39 < _0bitcount> Which resonates strongly with my idealist self, except it mostly fails the reality test of most of what I've read about free markets and capitalism and the reasons for their existence.
16:40 < maaku> _0bitcount: is the title to be taken literally? because unless he's gotten around the laws of thermodynamics there will never be a zero marginal cost
16:42 < _0bitcount> maaku, almost. The idea is that exponential technologies and communal agreements (again, like in the FOSS community) are going to make most everyday objects and software basically free for everyone.
16:42 < _0bitcount> Distributed, locally generated, green energy, etc...
16:44 < maaku> _0bitcount: increase productivity by 1000x, and human beings will find 1000x things they desire
16:44 < _0bitcount> When most open source / free software projects rely on scarce donations to go by, whereas walled gardens/platforms have millions in funding the same week they are launched.
16:44 < maaku> these prognostications have existed since the dawn of the enlightenment, and never come true
16:44 < _0bitcount> maaku, yes, that's my point.
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16:46 < catern> _0bitcount: indeed that all sounds really dumb, read Robin Hanson instead
16:47 < _0bitcount> catern, I'll do.
16:48 < catern> his scenario, i think accurately, shows how a "epsilon marginal cost society" might not be a utopia but rather a hell
16:48 < _0bitcount> I've been following Tim Worstall's column in Forbes, and he certainly seems more realistic with the hard, cold, realities of the world.
16:52 < _0bitcount> So when I see Richard Stallman still clamoring for everybody releasing their software, and now hardware specs, as free software I think "what are the odds of that"...
16:52 < _0bitcount> ... "when there are powerful incentives to create artificial scarcity?"
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17:02 < maaku> I'm sure there are humans who find contentment in a marginal existence. However I'm not one of them, and I'm not alone.
17:03 < maaku> I'm sure that once we've finished the largest tasks I can imagine -- converting Jupiter into computronium powered by a Dyson sphere around the sun, I'll have moved on to wanting more than such provincial ambitions.
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17:06 < kanzure> indeed
17:07 < _0bitcount> I've recently played with the idea that, as time and technology makes us all more interconnected, and provides for all of our normal, organic needs, we'll evolve in something of a collective mind.
17:07 < _0bitcount> Eventually transcending individual, fleshy bodies.
17:08 < kanzure> far more likely that minds will no longer be a concept and we'll realize that all the folk psychology was wrong
17:09 < _0bitcount> Interesting. Could you develop that a little more, kanzure?
17:09 < kanzure> "mind" is already underdefined, so "collective mind" is going to end up way worse and even more boring
17:11 < _0bitcount> What are the alternative explanations for matter which is aware of itself in a complex way, if that is a valid definition?
17:12 < kanzure> "aware of itself in a complex way" what?
17:13 < kanzure> maaku: imho you should be considering a dyson swarm not a dyson sphere
17:13 < _0bitcount> kanzure, sorry, I don't have a good grasp of whatever the concepts are in those fields regarding mind and conscience.
17:14 < kanzure> _0bitcount: sounds like a waste of time
17:14 < _0bitcount> OK
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17:21 < _0bitcount> Finally, just I'll ask for advice, if you feel in the mood: How you people find the time and focus to become involved in that many things as I read about here? I barely can concentrate for a while, after 8-12 hours a day of $BORING_DAYJOB?
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18:14 < pasky> well, Stallman is damn winning, imho
18:15 < pasky> or at least keeping the status quo, against pretty big odds
18:18 < kanzure> _0bitcount: well it's a little bit of adderall, some brain damage, "dayjobs" that aren't completely soul crushing, but mostly strong consternation regarding apparent lack of technological progress
18:20 < pasky> I can't comprehend why someone able to join this channel and discuss sensibly is stuck at $BORING_DAYJOB
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19:08 < kanzure> pasky: for eudoxia's case it is because uruguay
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21:27 < kanzure> "RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: MICROWAVE IN THE BREAK ROOM DOING WEIRD THINGS TO FABRIC OF SPACE-TIME"
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23:06 < FourFire> kanzure, so there's some event "Oslo blockchain day" happening at my workplace: should I bother skipping a couple of hours work to see, or is it uninteresting?
23:09 < Stskeeps> FourFire: futuretech track doesn't look half bad
23:09 < Stskeeps> vinay gupta is a very good speaker as an example
23:09 < Stskeeps> see https://vimeo.com/161183966
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23:31 < FourFire> Alright I'll check it out if I can.
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--- Log closed Tue Apr 19 00:00:51 2016