--- Log opened Thu Apr 21 00:00:41 2016
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06:11 < chris_99> nmz787_i, are you about per chance?
06:14 < chris_99> or anyone else for that matter, i'm just looking at using a cheapo diffraction grating, could someone possibly verify my understanding is correct, so i'm looking at a 500 lines / mm grating
06:14 < chris_99> i believe the distance between lines for that is 2um
06:15 < kanzure> btw edmund optics has online chat support
06:15 < chris_99> oh interesting
06:15 < chris_99> i'm playing with http://www.photonics.byu.edu/diffraction.phtml i plugged in 2um and 900nm for the wavelength, @ 5cm from grating
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06:17 < chris_99> so it says i'd see 900nm at 2.2cm, from the centre, so then i'd only need to place a camera at some distance behind the grating right, and just look for a line at that distance
06:17 < chris_99> *2.5cm
06:18 < chris_99> (i'm just looking at cheapo 'ruled gratings')
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09:22 < catern> hey kanzure you like to record every interaction you have with other people
09:22 < catern> have you considered recording all your in-person conversations
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09:29 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=e12ccab5 Bryan Bishop: transcript: adam3us in czechia >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/adam3us-bitcoin-scaling-tradeoffs/
09:31 < kanzure> catern: i don't do audio recording of my in-person conversations but i definitely write down summaries (lists of tags)
09:32 < catern> kanzure: any reason why not?
09:32 < kanzure> unreasonably negative feelings about audio recording quality
09:32 < kanzure> i haven't tested but i've always assumed the recording quality would be infuriatingly low
09:35 < catern> too low to understand, or too low to speech-to-text?
09:35 < catern> it seems like it could be decent
09:35 < chris_99> hire a boom mic operator to follow you round ;)
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09:39 < catern> i was thinking wearing a smartwatch...
09:39 < catern> that's unobtrusive but should get decent audio quality, maybe?
09:39 < chris_99> sounds like a good idea, or even one of those clip on mics
09:40 < catern> well, a clip-on mic would be immediately recognizable as a mic... perhaps I would want to be surreptitious?
09:41 < chris_99> true
09:41 < chris_99> although that'd be legally questionalbe
09:42 < archels_> just wear a smartphone in your chest pocket
09:42 < archels_> the real downside is how people will react when they know you're recording them
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09:44 < catern> archels_: i've tested that, and my pants pocket too, the audio quality is not great (at least with my phone, anyway)
09:45 < catern> chris_99: i live in a only-one-party-needs-to-consent-to-recording state so legally it's fine
09:45 < chris_99> aha cool
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09:55 < catern> i'm thinking if i get a smartwatch with a good mic, i can unobtrusively connect it to a battery pack so i can record constantly
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09:59 < kanzure> what you really need is a nanoscopic dust clouds of microphone arrays that extend like a smelly odor around you wherever you go
09:59 < chris_99> heh
09:59 < catern> that sounds like a workable solution
09:59 < catern> do you know where i can get one of those
09:59 < JayDugger> That would be cool. I'll settle for a system which automatically timestamps, geostamps, transcribes, and indexes the audio recordings.
10:00 < chris_99> and pipes to MTurk maybe
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10:00 < JayDugger> Nah...the machine can do the transcriptions. I'm not so fussy.
10:01 < catern> honestly though how has this not already been done
10:01 < chris_99> for decoding
10:01 < catern> i am certainly not the first transhumanist who wants to record everything around themselves, and audio is a good first step
10:01 < JayDugger> Evernote has a built-in recording function. It will also automatically geotag your notes and time stamp them.
10:01 < catern> JayDugger: well, i mean the hardware setup
10:02 < JayDugger> Yeah, that's called a good modern phone.
10:02 < catern> a good modern phone can record 16 hours a day?
10:02 < JayDugger> Unless you want to do something exotic, like binaural audio or a wide frequency band.
10:02 < JayDugger> Depending on your battery life, fidelity standards, and so on...
10:03 < catern> i am pretty sure no modern phone has the battery life to be recording 16 hours a day
10:03 < JayDugger> My Note 4's voice recorder app shows enough disk space for 80 hours of mono at 16KHz sampling.
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10:04 < catern> you could probably optimize it in hardware so that recording could be done in a sleep state
10:04 < catern> but i doubt anyone has done this
10:04 < JayDugger> You do know they make phones with removable batteries, right? You want to perhaps update your estimate?
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10:04 < catern> well, i wasn't counting removable batteries
10:04 < JayDugger> They also make external USB power packs.
10:04 < JayDugger> You should. They're cheap.
10:04 < catern> yeah
10:04 < catern> hmm...
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10:05 < catern> you know there are phones that have QI charging
10:05 < catern> are there power packs that will do Qi charging?
10:05 < JayDugger> Managing 16 hours of audio accumulating per day, every day, that seems more of a challenge.
10:05 < catern> then you'd just need to put your phone in there
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10:05 < catern> JayDugger: disk is cheap
10:05 < catern> http://www.qipack.co/
10:05 < catern> oh, cool
10:05 < catern> so i could just keep this in my pocket next to my phone
10:06 < JayDugger> Storage costs little, and that part's solved.
10:06 < catern> JayDugger: anyway, the other issue that I mentioned earlier - recording quality of your phone while it's in your pocket, is not great
10:06 < catern> at least, it's not great for my phone
10:07 < catern> i would love to hear that it is better for others, if anyone wants to test (I have a Nexus 5)
10:07 < JayDugger> You've 16 hours of audio per day. That's about 240 days of playback per year.
10:07 < catern> yeah, so speech-to-text is important
10:07 < JayDugger> Assuming your recorder has a skip silence function (or your post-processor has one), and assuming...yeah, you get the poitn.
10:07 < catern> as is proper synchronization with the time, so you can go back and listen to specific stuff that you know is at specific times
10:08 < catern> so again i think the primary issue is the mic quality, because a smartphone in my pocket sucks
10:08 < JayDugger> Yeah, that should be easy. The  recording has a time index, and you can use the file ctime as a start point.
10:08 < catern> ah, yeah
10:09 < JayDugger> Yeah, I've tried this. I get a lot of footsteps and rustling fabric.
10:09 < JayDugger> If you make a point of setting your phone on a desk and pretending to turn it off while actually switching on the recorder and turning off the screen, you can usually get good audio.
10:09 < catern> probably the recording software could break the files/insert timestamps at points of silence
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10:10 < JayDugger> Not that I would encourage such deceit, you understand. I speak only in a hypothetical case.
10:10 < catern> JayDugger: of course
10:10 < catern> but I at least often have conversations, y'know, standing up
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10:10 < JayDugger> Wear your phone on a belt clip.
10:10 < catern> I suppose one could develop a habit of removing ones phone from one pocket during any and all conversations
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10:10 < catern> hmm, or that
10:11 < catern> JayDugger: do people actually do that? i've never seen such a thing
10:11 < JayDugger> Otterbox makes some nice models to go with their cases.
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10:11 < JayDugger> Yeah, it's pretty common at my job. Some work pants have dedicated phone pockets.
10:11 < catern> i assume their cases don't block the mic?
10:11 < catern> huh, what is your job?
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10:12 < JayDugger> Yeah, I hate $DAYJOB.
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10:13 < JayDugger> I apologize for dodging the question. Let put it this way: today was a good day because I told my supervisor "Oh, you're welcome. You know me. I hate to miss a chance to twist the knife."
10:13 < catern> haha
10:13 < nmz787_i> https://www.nanocenter.umd.edu/nanoday/register/
10:14 < nmz787_i> "Please note that NanoDay 2016 is a free event; there is no fee for the workshops, registration or presenting a poster."
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10:14 < nmz787_i> May 17 - Electron Microscopy Workshops - Recent Advancements in Electron and Ion MicroscopyElectron Microscopy Workshops, with in-depth presentations by experienced microscopists.       Click here for more information about the EM Workshops                                        May 18 - NanoDay - Quantum Physics, Energy Storage, and Nanomanufacturing       Feature plenary talks by prominent scientists in nanoscience, a poster session for
10:14 < nmz787_i> breaking research (with awards), and networking opportunities
10:14 < catern> JayDugger: i dunno how well the belt clip would work
10:15 < JayDugger> Anyway, the best thing to try is to experiment. Accumulate the audio. As you pointed out, storage costs next to nothing, and basic indexing (who, where, when) will do until text-to-speech gets even cheaper.
10:15 < chris_99> nmz787_i, hey, i'm thinking again about a spectrometer, i'm thinking of getting a pi noir (which can apparently record at 10 bit) and a cheapo diffraction grating, for prototyping
10:15 < JayDugger> I saved papers in a box labeled "SCAN WHEN CHEAP" for about a decade until it finally happened.
10:17 < nmz787_i> chris_99: best of luck!
10:17 < nmz787_i> I just remember my pi camera having tons of digital noise :/
10:17 < chris_99> ah bugger, i could possible average it maybe
10:17 < chris_99> whether that'd help i dunno
10:17 < nmz787_i> but if you aren't doing fast acquisition, then averaging should work to your advantage
10:17 < chris_99> mmm
10:18 < chris_99> if it works with the noir, i'll build a system with the proper line ccds
10:18 < nmz787_i> by fast I mean, your sample isn't changing every reading (i.e. with a protein enzyme kinetics reaction)
10:18 < chris_99> mmm
10:18 < chris_99> it's for abv hopefully
10:18 < chris_99> so it wont
10:19 < nmz787_i> I finally got my little laser etcher to have an analog brightness adjustment (from digital PWM) working a week or so ago, haven't lasered anything interesting yet
10:19 < nmz787_i> and also got my little xray-detector to at least respond to light in a seemingly appropriate manner
10:19 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: nanotube, strages, Orpheon, strangewarp, ArturShaik
10:19 < chris_99> ooh cool
10:19 < JayDugger> That's good work nmz787_i.
10:19 < chris_99> what type of sensor is it
10:19 < nmz787_i> just a cheap PIN photodiode
10:19 < chris_99> aha cool
10:20 < nmz787_i> reverse-biased, with a FET on the output, which is fed into an opamp for amplification
10:20 < chris_99> i think they can also detect gamma iirc?
10:20 < nmz787_i> yeah
10:20 < JayDugger> catern, you can save audio in a directory tree "audio/YYYY/MM/DD/foo.wav" until automatic transcription improves futher.
10:21 < catern> yeah
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10:21 < nmz787_i> chris_99: finally got my SEM moved home, from storage, though it is currently in the garage
10:21 < chris_99> oooooh
10:21 < chris_99> cool
10:22 < chris_99> are there any issues with it?
10:22 < nmz787_i> I've polyurethaned a piece of hardwood plywood to fit on top of the carpet in my home office room, for parking the scope on top of
10:22 < nmz787_i> still havent started debugging it yet
10:22 < chris_99> aha, does the screen not work?
10:22 < chris_99> or something
10:23 < nmz787_i> supposedly it works, but the image is all messed up
10:23 < chris_99> ah
10:23 < nmz787_i> they saw something on the screen, but nothing sensible... but found the image changed when the stage was manipulated
10:23 < nmz787_i> so seems to be correllation
10:23 < chris_99> oh interesting
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10:26 < chris_99> did you ever get your blue spectrometer to work?
10:26 < catern> JayDugger: awesome idea on the belt clip, I just tested the sound by taping my phone to my belt, it sounds great!
10:31 < nmz787_i> chris_99: I still have not even powered it on
10:31 < nmz787_i> too many projects...
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10:33 < chris_99> hehe
10:54 < catern> i cannot believe that i am going to get a belt clip for my phone
10:58 < maaku> catern: certainly there are smart watches with mics?
10:59 < catern> maaku: i don't wear a smart watch currently, and i already need a phone
10:59 < catern> the belt clip idea is a good one
10:59 < catern> a phone also will have more storage
10:59 < catern> wish i could get a belt clip that also charged the phone
10:59 < maaku> well I would presume a BLE connection from the watch to the phone, and cellular from the phone to your server
11:00 < catern> yeah
11:00 < maaku> this single idea has convinced me to get a smart watch, asap
11:00 < maaku> thanks
11:00 < catern> hah :D
11:00 < maaku> i'm looking forward to having a continuous "irc log" of real world conversations
11:01 < maaku> would be nice to autotranscribe and record the phone too
11:01 < catern> yes! exactly!
11:02 < maaku> oh haha should have read the full scrollback; you were talking of smart watches earlier
11:03 < catern> yeah :)
11:03 < kanzure> autotranscribe is too slow, faster ot just do it myself
11:04 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/wiki/transcripts/adam3us-bitcoin-scaling-tradeoffs/
11:04 < catern> kanzure: surely it's faster still to use both at the same time, i.e., automated speech-to-text with your oversight
11:05 < kanzure> catern: nope i think i am directly faster http://www.seanwrona.com/typeracer/profile.php?username=kanzure
11:06 < catern> that is some wpm
11:06 < kanzure> most congruently
11:08 < chris_99> wpm == words per minute right?
11:09 < kanzure> yep
11:09 < chris_99> i was just thinking how that works due to differing word lengths, but i guess it averages out
11:10 < kanzure> it's not an ideal measurement, i mean i don't really care about words nor minutes but quantifying complex hand motion sequencing is a difficult thing to ask for
11:11 < chris_99> mmm heh
11:12 < kanzure> in fact i'm not really convinced that most words have any positive value, but at the same time i am pretty sure that it is useful to have some form of brain output or input into computing devices
11:12 < kanzure> high-entropy controlled input or something
11:14 < kanzure> high bandwidth, at least, but also video doesn't count because visual appearance cannot be precisely controlled at a high rate
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11:25 < Jenda`_> kanzure: Oh, is that transcript (Bitcoin scaling tradeoffs with Adam Back) from video, or are you in Prague? :)
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11:28 < aedla> nmz787_i: how much did the SEM cost?
11:28 < catern> maaku: i will report back on the success or failure of the belt-clip approach
11:28 < catern> i am hopeful that it will go well
11:28 < maaku> catern: http://kaptureaudio.com/
11:33 < nmz787_i> aedla: I think $200 or $300
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11:35 < aedla> nmz787_i: where did you get one so cheap? (and do they have more? :)
11:39 < kanzure> Jenda`_: from video earlier today
11:47 < catern> maaku: yeah I saw that, but I want to record *all* audio, not just the last minute
11:49 < catern> maaku: i'll send them an email
11:54 < catern> i have sent them an email
11:56 < kanzure> algorithmically generated prior art derived from patents http://allpriorart.com/
11:57 < kanzure> i should find some time to sit down and read all the existing patents
12:00 < maaku> catern: I'm absolutely sure the hardware is capable. if nothing else you could hack it with a cron job on the phone
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12:08 < catern> maaku: oh yeah, i believe it too
12:08 < catern> just want to see if the software will make it hard or easy
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13:04 < maaku> catern: what i'd really like to know is if their mic is any better than your typical smartwatch
13:04 < maaku> that'd make all the difference
13:04 < catern> yeah indeed
13:04 < catern> hmm
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13:09 < nmz787_i> aedla: found it via craigslist, was just randomly searching for fun one day (or to waste time while bored at work maybe???)... nah no more at the specific place... but I do see them on craigslist every month or so (not always local, but sometimes I use allcraigs to search all over the world)
13:09 < nmz787_i> aedla: the microscopy.com mailing list also has free stuff every so often
13:10 < nmz787_i> I saw a whole TEM setup with cryo about a month ago
13:10 < nmz787_i> would have been a great start to doing some cryo electron tomography or microtoming
13:11 < nmz787_i> aedla: and also electronics waste recyclers, sometimes you can call them directly, sometimes they put stuff on ebay (and then you usually can go see them in person and tour their warehouse)
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13:20 < catern> maaku: this could be useful http://www.amazon.com/PowerDrive-External-Portable-Poker-sized-Charging/dp/B00PHCZ5Q0
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14:32 < deus_> hi
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14:37 < nmz787_i> bye!
14:41 < kanzure> such is life on irc
14:41 < fenn> xentrac_: i'm reading the logs and can't figure out what the hell you're thinking? it comes across as a kid swinging his new toy around
14:42 < fenn> xentrac_: do you think it's not worthwhile to try to actively resolve conflicts?
14:42 < fenn> xentrac_: is it just a pre-commitment about a particular phrase that was used?
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15:08 < kanzure> catern: to low to understand. and for speech-to-text i'd have to read all the output anyway... or i guess i would also be okay with trying to train something that classifies things with canonical tags instead of whatever weird interpretations it tries to pick. that might be acceptable i guess.
15:08 < kanzure> i agree with the boom mic operator hire plan
15:09 < fenn> i'd rather have a dedicated audio recording device because of security concerns
15:09 < fenn> preferably with a mechanical off switch
15:09 < kanzure> false choice, all switches should be mechanical
15:10 < kanzure> regarding jaydugger's employment, it should be obvious by now that jaydugger is employed by the government to watch this channel for unusual activity. that's why he has all the security clearances.
15:10 < kanzure> and why he has all the rocket knowledge
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15:10 < fenn> i mean a switch that stays off when switched to "off", and has to be moved to "on" to turn on
15:11 < kanzure> *too low to understand
15:11 < kanzure> recording all my own audio is not enough to convince me, although setups for recording chatter at conferences might be sufficient motivation..... i think we have talked about this before.
15:11 < fenn> the audio quality required for automated transcription really depends on the speech to text algorithms currently available
15:12 < fenn> having multiple microphones (i.e. stereo audio) can significantly boost the signal to noise ratio, see "cocktail party problem"
15:12 < fenn> .wik cocktail party problem
15:12 < yoleaux> "The cocktail party effect is the phenomenon of being able to focus one's auditory attention on a particular stimulus while filtering out a range of other stimuli, much the same way that a partygoer can focus on a single conversation in a noisy room. This effect is what allows most people to "tune into" a single voice and "tune out" all others." — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cocktail_party_problem
15:13 < kanzure> if i am at a bitcoin conference and people are talking about UTXOs i don't want transcription software to give output including all of "you tee echs ohs" and "utexas spaghettios" and "UTX ohs" and so on. presumably modern classifiers can be trained to have a set of known canonical jargon and just tag "UTXO" with a certainty factor.
15:13 < kanzure> yes i am p. sure all conference recording proposals have always involved >1 microphone
15:14 < fenn> sigh they fucked up the wikipedia article with redirect to some cognitive science crap instead of the digital signal processing thing it used to point to
15:15 < kanzure> i am sort of surprised by the conventional assumption that people say important things through voice at all
15:15 < fenn> well it seems important at the time
15:15 < kanzure> most complex systems take a bunch of context and effort to load up on, so my default assumption would be that important things would often be written down first long before they would be spoken outloud
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15:16 < fenn> no, many insights come when trying to explain or teach something
15:16 < kanzure> but that folly is on me--- most professions don't involve writing anything down at all, even for complex systems still pulling teeth to get aerospace people to document their drawings.
15:16 < fenn> and most people don't sit around writing essays all day
15:18 < kanzure> apparently the hplusroadmap logs do not include the phrase "mean time until failure" contrary to my expectations
15:19 < fenn> "MTBF" appears 15 times
15:20 < kanzure> oh good
15:21 < kanzure> "mean time between failure" not "mean time until failure", weird.
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15:27 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=f711f1a8 Bryan Bishop: project heuristics about failure modes >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/projects/heuristics/
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15:42 < nmz787_i> typing is usually harder/slower than talking, for me and I presume majority of other people
15:45 < kanzure> great aspiration :P
15:46 < nmz787_i> i'd rather speech to text was better
15:46 < nmz787_i> i'm an old dog... I need great brain-reshuffling to learn such new tricks at my core... i think
15:47 < nmz787_i> which is really super time consuming
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15:48 < nmz787_i> so all i'm saying it, it's usually /more/ useful to talk a bunch than it is to write an equivalent amount of sentences, or even a single great sentence
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16:21 < maaku> speech to text isn't good already?
16:21 < maaku> I thought there were some pretty good algorithms for that
16:21 < nmz787_i> didnt work in the car for me yesterday
16:22 < nmz787_i> road noise kept it listening, then it timed out
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18:37 < kanzure> skdb page should be updated to switch from apt-get fanboyism to nixos fanboyism
18:38 < kanzure> also, it is sad that amazon found that their optimal inventory storage and management is a bunch of people running around a giant warehouse with shopping carts and grocery-isle-style part storage.....
18:49 < xentrac_> fenn: I'm not quite sure which thing you're referring to with the kid swinging the new toy, or actively resolving conflicts, or pre-commitments and particular phrases?
18:49 < xentrac_> are you talking about copper plating?
18:51 < xentrac_> or bitcoin, or what?
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19:33 < andytoshi> is paperbot alive these days? does anyone know where i can find an english translation of a ussr math paper?
19:34 < andytoshi> "Branched coverings of manifolds with boundary and link invariants. I", MATH USSR IZV, 1973, 7 (6), 1239–1256
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19:55 < kanzure> weird, sci-hub.io gives the wrong pdf for http://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1070/IM1973v007n06ABEH002083/pdf
20:18 < andytoshi> yeah, i checked after i posted .. it's the same for every article in that journal it seem
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21:32 < kanzure> https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/4fs8fo/talkvideo_bitcoin_scaling_tradeoffs_with_adam/d2c8xya?context=3
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22:25 < drethelin> what do you guys think of Basis https://www.technologyreview.com/s/534636/the-anti-aging-pill/ ?
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22:53 < JayDugger> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_to_the_Moon
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--- Log closed Fri Apr 22 00:00:54 2016