--- Log opened Sat Apr 23 00:00:55 2016
00:06 -!- sandeepkr_ [~sandeep@111.235.64.4] has joined ##hplusroadmap
00:18 -!- hylleddin [~hylleddin@159.203.254.240] has joined ##hplusroadmap
00:19 -!- Aurelius_Laptop [~cpopell@c-73-129-20-70.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
00:21 -!- dwefewin [~drethelin@24-241-226-112.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap
00:23 -!- drethelin [~drethelin@24-241-226-112.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
00:54 -!- Gurkenglas_ [Gurkenglas@dslb-178-000-178-156.178.000.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has joined ##hplusroadmap
01:27 -!- Quashie [~boingredd@45.42.8.151] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
01:40 -!- PatrickRobotham [uid18270@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ycqtuhoddxnhmhoo] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
02:00 -!- PatrickRobotham [uid18270@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ulqrdqfpwdaxycld] has joined ##hplusroadmap
02:57 -!- maaku [~quassel@173-228-107-141.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.]
02:59 -!- maaku [~quassel@173-228-107-141.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap
04:17 < JayDugger> maaku, catern
04:17 < JayDugger> http://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/state-law-recording
04:18 < JayDugger> Useless outside USA.
05:45 -!- nildicit [~nildicit@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/nildicit] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
06:14 -!- Douhet [~Douhet@unaffiliated/douhet] has joined ##hplusroadmap
07:05 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap
07:08 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r167-56-132-150.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap
07:13 -!- jaboja [~jaboja@vps.jaboja.pl] has joined ##hplusroadmap
07:19 -!- wbraun [~wbraun@dhcp-18-111-106-58.dyn.MIT.EDU] has joined ##hplusroadmap
07:25 < kanzure> maaku: minor nit about "It is not trust in Canonical itself that is the problem, but the constant threat of coercion it puts on both the organization and the people that compromise it."
07:25 < kanzure> maaku: s/compromise/comprise/
07:26 < kanzure> compromise (in the security sense) is topical but i think you are more worried about threat of coercion against anyone comprising that group, rather than simply the threat of coercion against attackers :)
07:29 < kanzure> "Ancient heritage of water ice in the solar system" http://arxiv.org/pdf/1409.7398.pdf
07:36 < cluckj> it's missing a large source of water ice in the solar system: http://www.ritasice.com/
07:56 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
08:06 -!- wbraun [~wbraun@dhcp-18-111-106-58.dyn.MIT.EDU] has quit [Quit: wbraun]
08:09 -!- wbraun [~wbraun@dhcp-18-111-106-58.dyn.mit.edu] has joined ##hplusroadmap
08:13 -!- Aurelius_Laptop [~cpopell@c-73-129-20-70.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
08:18 < kanzure> "High-precision secure computation of satellite collision probabilities" http://eprint.iacr.org/2016/319 http://eprint.iacr.org/2016/319.pdf
08:24 -!- jaboja [~jaboja@vps.jaboja.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
08:35 < maaku> JayDugger: i posted a link to that above
08:37 < maaku> kanzure: gah, edit window has expired
08:50 -!- Aurelius_Laptop [~cpopell@c-73-129-20-70.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
08:52 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-yinmcmezhfgrirbk] has joined ##hplusroadmap
08:58 < abetusk> nmz787_i, when exporting, it gives a gcode file for isolation milling.  Wait, why do you need to produce gcode for etching boards?
09:02 < abetusk> anyway, no need to use MeowCAD if you have the Gerbers.  You can use pcb2gcode I think (https://sourceforge.net/projects/pcb2gcode/) or the tool that I made which MeowCAD uses to produce the isolation paths called gbl2ngc (https://github.com/abetusk/gbl2ngc)
09:03 < abetusk> but if you're etching, all you need to do is print on a transparency to expose the photoresist
09:18 < JayDugger> maaku, I thought it looked familiar. How soon I forgot its source.
09:44 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap
09:52 -!- yashgaroth [~yashgarot@2602:306:35fa:d500:f5e0:f867:a11d:8d52] has joined ##hplusroadmap
09:53 -!- ArturSha1 [~ArturShai@212.97.31.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
09:59 < streety> how much of a challenge is it to figure out the orbit of all satellites?
10:06 -!- ArturSha1 [~ArturShai@212.97.13.84] has joined ##hplusroadmap
10:19 -!- Quashie [~boingredd@45.42.8.151] has joined ##hplusroadmap
10:19 < dwefewin> what do you mean by figure out?
10:20 < dwefewin> most satellites have known and tracked orbits
10:20 < dwefewin> it's more a matter of collating the info
10:20 -!- nildicit [~nildicit@unaffiliated/nildicit] has joined ##hplusroadmap
10:21 < dwefewin> http://www.n2yo.com/
10:22 < chris_99> neat
10:24 < dwefewin> I would expect this to have some amount of error, and probably not include most military satellites
10:25 < streety> I was referring to the link posted by kanzure in which secure computation was suggested as a solution to satellite operators apparently keeping their satellite trajectories secret
10:25 < streety> I was wondering just how secret they can be
10:27 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r167-56-132-150.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
10:28 < chris_99> good question, this says https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misty_%28satellite%29 'Misty is reported to have optical and radar stealth characteristics'
10:29 < chris_99> Vantablack sounds interesting
10:31 < streety> military satellites make sense as being difficult to track
10:34 -!- jaboja [~jaboja@vps.jaboja.pl] has joined ##hplusroadmap
10:53 -!- Aurelius_Laptop [~cpopell@c-73-129-20-70.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
11:02 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-yinmcmezhfgrirbk] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
11:13 < xentrac_> nmz787: actually I hadn't seen FlatCAM, thanks!
11:14 < xentrac_> nmz787: I'm dubious of the statement "PCB milling is the fastest, cleanest, high-performance and economical PCB prototyping process today"
11:15 < xentrac_> it seems to me like at some circuit complexity, toner transfer is going to be cheaper and faster
11:20 -!- jaboja [~jaboja@vps.jaboja.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
11:26 -!- ArturSha1 [~ArturShai@212.97.13.84] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
11:29 -!- Filosofem is now known as Jawmare
11:30 -!- Quashie_ [~boingredd@45.42.8.151] has joined ##hplusroadmap
11:31 < abetusk> etching involves lots of nasty chemicals.  Personally, I think laser vaporization methods are the best way to go but getting a laser to do that seems difficult
11:32 < abetusk> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhH05jNyjCk
11:33 < abetusk> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzmjGz0_joM
11:33 < chris_99> that doesn't look cheap though
11:33 -!- Quashie [~boingredd@45.42.8.151] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
11:33 < xentrac_> (a) etching *can* involve nasty chemicals, but copper oxide is a reasonable alternative to them; (b) even if it were true, that would justify "fastest, cleanest, high[est]-performance, *OR* [most] economical", not "and"
11:34 < xentrac_> I mean, sure, that would make it cleanest, but it still wouldn't keep toner transfer from being cheaper and faster in high-complexity cases
11:35 -!- Aurelius_Laptop [~cpopell@c-73-129-20-70.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
11:36 < abetusk> isolation routing is fast, clean, high-performance (as much as etching) and econimical.  Assuming the laser could get cheap enough, then even more so with lasers
11:37 < xentrac_> by "routing" you mean cutting the copper with a router, as in the woodworking tool?
11:37 < chris_99> can't do vias though abetusk
11:37 < xentrac_> (also, the typical "nasty" chemical is just ferric chloride, which is not really in the same ballpark as e.g. sodium cyanide)
11:37 < abetusk> yeah, vias are a problem.  You can do metal 'plugs' but yes, it's a hack
11:37 < chris_99> mm
11:37 < abetusk> ferric chloride is nasty enough that I don't want to mess around with it on a day to day basis
11:38 < xentrac_> that's perfectly understandable and reasonable, and why many people have switched to air-regenerated copper chloride
11:38 < xentrac_> uh, copper oxide
11:38  * xentrac_ checks
11:39 < abetusk> cupric chloride?
11:40 < xentrac_> yes, copper chloride (which cycles between cupric and cuprous chloride during the process)
11:41 < xentrac_> it's still not nontoxic but it's safer than, say, bleach
11:42 < xentrac_> it seems to me that anything that involves a single cutting tool moving around your workpiece removing one spot of metal at a time is going to be slower than etching in the limit of high circuit complexity
11:43 < xentrac_> because twice as many wires means twice as many things to cut around, but doesn't slow down etching
11:44 < abetusk> Isolation routing only routes the necessary parts that need to be isolated.  No need to take off whole portions of copper if there isn't a need to.  Also, plated through hole still requires an extra step
11:44 < xentrac_> where exactly does that crossover happen?  I'd think pretty early on
11:45 < abetusk> We're talking low batch prototyping.  So, at a minimum, you're talking single or double sided boards
11:47 < abetusk> How big if a board do you trust to do the toner transfer method with?  You're right that it'll get slower the more surface area but it seems like it's of minimal concern.  Speed for either is on the order of minutes, maybe even on the order of an hour
11:49 < abetusk> oh right, lpkf has a solution for the plated through hole...you put saran wrap over the board, drill a hole through, squigy whatever proprietary thing they have, take off the saran wrap then bake it
11:49 < abetusk> or something like that.  So it's a 'plug' but you squigee it in and bake it instead of flattening a piece of metal at either end
11:50 < abetusk> again, meant for rapid prototyping, not mass manufacture.  Either method is sure to have unacceptable errors for mass production
11:50 -!- Orpheon [~Orpheon@46.140.52.182] has joined ##hplusroadmap
11:55 < abetusk> http://www.lpkf.com/products/rapid-pcb-prototyping/through-hole-plating/chemical-free/index.htm
11:59 -!- wbraun [~wbraun@dhcp-18-111-106-58.dyn.mit.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
12:03 -!- wbraun [~wbraun@rle-eecs-mtl-dhcp-28-223.mit.edu] has joined ##hplusroadmap
12:04 < maaku> streety: spy satellites are the issue. they try *very* hard to have unknown trajectories, using optical and radar stealth
12:05 < maaku> they also carry quite a bit of fuel to change their orbits to get new passover times whenever the enemy figures out when they're overhead
12:05 < maaku> this would let two adversaries make sure their spy sattelites don't collide, without revealing their trajectories
12:06 < streety> yeah, presumably the issue is not so much commercial operators but multiple governments with spy satellites
12:12 -!- Aurelius_Laptop [~cpopell@c-73-129-20-70.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
12:13 -!- jaboja [~jaboja@vps.jaboja.pl] has joined ##hplusroadmap
12:17 -!- sandeepkr__ [~sandeep@111.235.64.4] has joined ##hplusroadmap
12:20 -!- sandeepkr_ [~sandeep@111.235.64.4] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
12:21 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-eiepxqaebyqswvop] has joined ##hplusroadmap
12:34 -!- Orpheon [~Orpheon@46.140.52.182] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
12:55 -!- wbraun [~wbraun@rle-eecs-mtl-dhcp-28-223.mit.edu] has quit [Quit: wbraun]
13:09 -!- Gurkenglas_ is now known as Gurkenglas
13:10 -!- PatrickRobotham [uid18270@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ulqrdqfpwdaxycld] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
13:16 -!- jaboja [~jaboja@vps.jaboja.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
13:23 < kanzure> "Far more interesting is why a chihuahua with a walnut-sized brain is just as smart as an irish wolfhound that has a brain that masses about as much as a whole chihuahua"
13:23 < kanzure> er, i was told this was not true though... hrm.
13:24 < hylleddin> If they're anything like russian wolfhounds they should be one of the smarter breeds (though not necessarily the most trainable)
13:36 < kanzure> http://bioviva-science.com/2016/04/21/first-gene-therapy-successful-against-human-aging/
13:36 < kanzure> "In March 2016, the same tests were taken again by SpectraCell revealed that her telomeres had lengthened from 6.71kb to 7.33kb"
13:37 < kanzure> "Earlier this month BioViva became a portfolio company of Deep Knowledge Life Sciences (DKLS), a London-based investment fund"
13:37 < kanzure> yashgaroth: sup
13:38 < yashgaroth> yeah she had some tests done, not that I trust telomere length assays; more interested in pre- and post-exposure levels of AAV-neutalizing antibodies, but we'll see
13:39 < kanzure> why the urge to post on her site saying "20 years younger"? i thought you fixed her desire to bullshit..
13:40 < kanzure> scientific communication can be very open to this, but not if she's going around saying "20 YEARS YOUTH POTION"
13:41 < yashgaroth> I don't know if she writes the press releases, but yeah...whatever gets them millions of dollars
13:41 < yashgaroth> I assume the "20 years" figure is from the testing lab, and at least they say it's just white blood cells
13:43 < yashgaroth> ah yes it's written by some dude from one of the "foundations"
13:48 < maaku> kanzure what does smart mean here? Maybe the Chihuahua has less sensory perception
13:49 < kanzure> i don't know, maybe i am remembering random bullshit told to me by dog people (who each have their own biases and preferences for favorite breeds)
13:50 < kanzure> tiny brains == less scanning
13:58 < maaku> Also neuron size is different between organisms
13:58 < maaku> Hard to compare apples to apples.
14:03 < kanzure> ehh. dogs are dogs.
14:12 < streety> reminds me of http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/2011/11/30/how-fairy-wasps-cope-with-being-smaller-than-amoebas/
14:13 < kanzure> how about "amoebas are lazy overbearing space eaters and they don't have good reasons to be so large"?
14:14 < streety> thinking more of dogs are dogs versus wasps are wasps. Significant variation is possible.
14:15 -!- jaboja [~jaboja@vps.jaboja.pl] has joined ##hplusroadmap
14:16 < kanzure> over the past 10-20k years? perhaps...
14:16 < kanzure> but the variation between monkey brain and human brain is quite limited.
14:17 < kanzure> i dunno how old the breed is
14:18 < streety> sure, there are limits on how great the differences can be. Probably still quite significant though
14:24 < kanzure> .title http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0166432806001227
14:24 < yoleaux> Increased volume and neuronal number of the basolateral nuclear group of the amygdaloid body in aggressive dogs
14:35 -!- Guest26370 [~dog@cpe-69-201-45-125.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap
14:36 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
14:42 -!- Aurelius_Laptop [~cpopell@c-73-129-20-70.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
14:47 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-50-220-154.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap
14:47 < kanzure> .title http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1740-8261.2001.tb00960.x/abstract
14:47 < yoleaux> COMPARATIVE EVALUATION OF THE VENTRICLES IN THE YORKSHIRE TERRIER AND THE GERMAN SHEPHERD DOG USING LOW-FIELD MRI - Esteve-Ratsch - 2005 - Veterinary Radiology & Ultrasound - Wiley Online Library
14:48 < kanzure> https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Zbigniew_Adamiak/publication/264958058_Hydrocephalus_in_dogs_a_review/links/53f763280cf24ddba7d5f6f7.pdf
14:56 < kanzure> .title http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF02192869
14:56 < yoleaux> Fallacies of progression in theories of brain-size evolution - Springer
14:58 -!- jaboja [~jaboja@vps.jaboja.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
14:58 < nmz787> abetusk: I am etching with laser CNC etcher, in order to prove concept for microfluidics (and also to scratch my itch for quicker PCB turnaround time)
15:00 < kanzure> i am pretty sure nobodby has been checking comparative neuroanatomy of dog brain cells.... otherwise i would expect relevant results to be easier to find.
15:04 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-50-220-154.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
15:05 -!- jaboja [~jaboja@vps.jaboja.pl] has joined ##hplusroadmap
15:37 -!- Orpheon [~Orpheon@46.140.52.182] has joined ##hplusroadmap
15:49 -!- Aurelius_Laptop [~cpopell@c-73-129-20-70.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
15:56 -!- fleshtheworld [~fleshthew@2602:306:cf0f:4c20:60af:8b30:4493:56fb] has joined ##hplusroadmap
16:04 < abetusk> nmz787, I see.  Well, considering you're basically doing a raster scan, I'm not sure gbl2ngc is so appropriate but it might work if finessed properly
16:05 -!- yashgaroth [~yashgarot@2602:306:35fa:d500:f5e0:f867:a11d:8d52] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
16:31 -!- fleshtheworld [~fleshthew@2602:306:cf0f:4c20:60af:8b30:4493:56fb] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
16:43 -!- Gurkenglas [Gurkenglas@dslb-178-000-178-156.178.000.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
16:44 -!- Aurelius_Laptop [~cpopell@c-73-129-20-70.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
17:30 -!- wbraun [~wbraun@dhcp-18-111-90-248.dyn.mit.edu] has joined ##hplusroadmap
18:21 -!- wbraun_ [~wbraun@dhcp-18-189-95-231.dyn.mit.edu] has joined ##hplusroadmap
18:24 -!- wbraun [~wbraun@dhcp-18-111-90-248.dyn.mit.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
18:24 -!- wbraun_ is now known as wbraun
18:29 -!- redlegion [~x@unaffiliated/redlegion] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
18:33 -!- jaboja [~jaboja@vps.jaboja.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
19:07 -!- redlegion [~x@unaffiliated/redlegion] has joined ##hplusroadmap
19:21 -!- jcluck [~cluckj@pool-108-16-231-242.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
19:25 -!- cluckj [~cluckj@pool-108-16-231-242.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
19:38 -!- Aurelius_Laptop [~cpopell@c-73-129-20-70.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
19:42 < kanzure> "CRISPR "doesn't do editing, it does what I call vandalism" - george
19:44 < kanzure> weird, "george church street art" doesn't return any positive hits on google image search :|
19:45 < kanzure> this will have to do as an alternative in the mean time https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/52/The_Pirate_Bay_in_Makarska%2C_Croatia.jpg
19:59 < maaku> kanzure we should find a transhumanist Street art movement
19:59 < maaku> *fund
20:00 < kanzure> alright
20:01 < kanzure> don't be alarmed if your likeness starts spontaneously showing up on strange streets in brazil or something
20:02 -!- gluytium [~gluytium@li394-234.members.linode.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap
20:04 -!- Jawmare [~Jawmare@unaffiliated/jawmare] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20:04 -!- Jawmare [~Jawmare@unaffiliated/jawmare] has joined ##hplusroadmap
20:28 -!- PatrickRobotham [uid18270@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tztkjjkvlesfiuvd] has joined ##hplusroadmap
20:35 < nmz787> abetusk: why would I want to raster though? I don't need to
20:43 < nmz787> abetusk: depending on the type of photoresist, i might need to invert things, which could require rastering I guess
20:52 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-eiepxqaebyqswvop] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
21:02 -!- Darius [~quassel@cpe-158-222-160-123.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap
21:06 -!- Aurelius_Laptop [~cpopell@c-73-129-20-70.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
21:14 < maaku> I was thinking some thing more abstract. Mix of tech influence and the concept of "transcend"
21:16 < maaku> A cypherpunk banksy
21:16 < kanzure> maaku: http://dpi.studioxx.org/sites/dpi.1.sxx.kommun-it.org/files/dpi22_diybio-revolution-poster.jpg
21:23 -!- drewbot [~cinch@ec2-54-221-61-242.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:24 -!- drewbot [~cinch@ec2-54-205-12-128.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap
21:38 -!- Gurkenglas [Gurkenglas@dslb-178-000-178-156.178.000.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has joined ##hplusroadmap
21:41 < maaku> Love it
21:52 < nmz787>  abetusk so I guess the resist i currently have is (if still good) a harded-on-exposure type, so yeah I would need to invert and raster
22:23 -!- dwefewin is now known as drethelin
22:27 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
22:39 -!- wbraun [~wbraun@dhcp-18-189-95-231.dyn.mit.edu] has quit [Quit: wbraun]
23:15 < kanzure> https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/f5/96/ef/f596efacf1bb420958ae45b0810005c4.jpg
23:35 -!- Darius [~quassel@cpe-158-222-160-123.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:40 -!- pompolic [~A@unaffiliated/pompolic] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
23:47 -!- Orpheon [~Orpheon@46.140.52.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
23:47 -!- Orpheon [~Orpheon@46.140.52.182] has joined ##hplusroadmap
--- Log closed Sun Apr 24 00:00:55 2016