--- Log opened Wed May 04 00:00:05 2016 00:00 -!- sandeepkr [~sandeep@111.235.64.4] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:15 -!- Guest55554 [~abram@c-98-216-104-129.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:30 -!- PatrickRobotham [uid18270@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kfpduxdusveayskk] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:32 < drethelin> what did you do to your old one 00:38 -!- abetusk [~abram@c-98-216-104-129.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:38 -!- abetusk is now known as Guest96813 00:40 -!- nildicit [~nildicit@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/nildicit] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:00 < nmz787_i> well, I never had one 01:32 -!- Gurkenglas__ [Gurkenglas@dslb-178-000-182-226.178.000.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:09 -!- nmz787_i [~ntmccork@134.134.139.83] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:14 -!- QuadIgni is now known as FourFire 02:15 < FourFire> hmm, reddit really sucks. 02:16 < night> tell me about it 02:40 < FourFire> I got upvoted for a post where I ridicule a (joking) solution to "the population problem" caused by successful indefinite lifespan research by spending 0.6% of world GDP launching naked humans into space atop SpaceX Launch vehicles 02:44 < FourFire> I got downvoted for a post where I suggest that The AI control problem is a big unknown, and that our social constucts are specific to our neural architecture. 03:24 -!- sandeepkr_ [~sandeep@111.235.64.4] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:28 -!- sandeepkr [~sandeep@111.235.64.4] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:41 -!- Gurkenglas__ [Gurkenglas@dslb-178-000-182-226.178.000.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:43 -!- sandeepkr__ [~sandeep@111.235.64.4] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:46 -!- sandeepkr_ [~sandeep@111.235.64.4] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:21 < juul> hm, still haven't found that UI/UX person for biobricks foundation. If anyone knows anyone who's interested: https://www.noisebridge.net/pipermail/noisebridge-jobs/2016-April/000380.html 04:22 < juul> you can contact me at bbf@juul.io 04:25 -!- jtimon [~quassel@65.28.134.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:52 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:53 -!- nildicit [~nildicit@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/nildicit] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:56 -!- Gurkenglas__ [Gurkenglas@dslb-178-000-182-226.178.000.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:10 -!- augur [~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:32 < chris_99> Anyone ever made a digital refractometer out of interest, was just looking at http://www.gpsil.com/our-products/refractometers/measuring-pri/# seems the main expense is probably the interference filter 05:38 -!- Bob_ [bcb01ef5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.176.30.245] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:39 -!- Bob_ [bcb01ef5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.176.30.245] has quit [Client Quit] 05:53 -!- Gurkenglas__ [Gurkenglas@dslb-178-000-182-226.178.000.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 05:59 -!- augur [~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:02 -!- JayDugger [~jwdugger@108.19.186.58] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:55 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:55 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:19 -!- Guest96813 is now known as abetusk 07:39 -!- sandeepkr__ [~sandeep@111.235.64.4] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:51 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:51 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lmigeeqasqocqhtf] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:15 -!- jaboja [~jaboja@vps.jaboja.pl] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:12 < JayDugger> nmz787, when you said "size of some text on a PDF page," you meant what--dimensions on screen? 09:13 < maaku> FourFire: why do you want to enslave machine intelligence? 09:14 < FourFire> maaku, actually, I wan to *be* machine intelligence, but the prerequisites are probably not going to be developed in time 09:14 -!- jaboja [~jaboja@vps.jaboja.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:15 < maaku> FourFire: I don't think that is so unlikely an outcome 09:15 < FourFire> maaku, to answer your question: I don't want to truncated by Other intelligencs put into plac by insufficietly imaginative and cautious people 09:16 < maaku> it is strange to me that the "control problem" is about building perfect enslavement devices, and yet no one calls them out on it 09:16 < FourFire> ideally there will be a multitude of non general but very powerful AIs 09:16 -!- jaboja [~jaboja@vps.jaboja.pl] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:16 < FourFire> plenty of people call people out on it, but that's due to what I consider a different problem entirely. 09:17 < FourFire> I'm wary of people's empathy for "things which look like faces" being hijacked and leading to a stupid early en 09:19 < maaku> stupid early en...? 09:19 < maaku> the machine cut you off it seems 09:20 < maaku> general intelligence is not complicated 09:20 < maaku> thankfully it's also not very useful most of the time 09:21 < JayDugger> Obviously an act of sabotage by the machine. Fetch the tools of eliminating reluctance and inducing penitence. 09:29 < maaku> .title https://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2016/05/03/preparing-future-artificial-intelligence 09:29 < yoleaux> Preparing for the Future of Artificial Intelligence | whitehouse.gov 09:29 < maaku> FourFire: with the right tools transitioning from biological to machine intelligence is not that hard 09:30 < maaku> it's probably easier than fixing all the things that are wrong with our failing bodies 09:30 < FourFire> yes, in the long run 09:30 < maaku> but then again I have this problem where I consider anything doable within 30 years "easy" 09:30 < maaku> supplant the world's financial system? easy! 09:31 < FourFire> I don't think bio to digital transition at acceptable fidelity to be a 30 year problem 09:31 < FourFire> more like 50+ years... 09:32 < maaku> FourFire: it just needs decent neural interfacing tech 09:32 < FourFire> I'm pursuing biology enhancements first because I consider it a necessary "first bridge" for anyone born befoe next decade next decade 09:32 < maaku> doesn't even need to replace the whole brain, just the intercranial connection 09:33 < FourFire> brain is biology 09:33 < FourFire> if you claim you don't want to bother to fix biology issues, you have to go full synth 09:34 < maaku> FourFire: No I do. I don't like putting my eggs in one basket. 09:35 < maaku> But what I'm saying is there's a relatively short pathway to machine intelligence: reverse engineer the intracranial communication at the physical level 09:36 < maaku> Then lobotomize a brain, connecting the left and the right hemispheres to separate supercomputers with blank, learnable cortex simulations 09:37 < maaku> and boom, you've fissioned into two individuals. 09:37 < maaku> after sufficient imprinting of the machine part (years of retraining), the biological part can die and the individual survives 09:38 < maaku> Too much risk imho, so I pursue many other means, but conceptually quite simple 09:39 < maaku> FourFire: btw were you the one I was speaking to about writing a living AGI roadmap document? 09:40 -!- anoncicada [anoncicada@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-hqbuuudmgopccqzq] has quit [Quit: faggory daggory doo!] 09:46 -!- anoncicada [anoncicada@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-yxfgnnaxxkppejlj] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:47 -!- Gurkenglas__ [Gurkenglas@dslb-178-000-182-226.178.000.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:03 < maaku> guess not 10:06 -!- cluckj [~cluckj@pool-108-16-231-242.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:14 -!- jaboja [~jaboja@vps.jaboja.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:23 -!- nmz787_i [~ntmccork@134.134.137.75] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:27 -!- Gurkenglas__ [Gurkenglas@dslb-178-000-182-226.178.000.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:29 -!- jtimon [~quassel@65.28.134.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:35 < nmz787_i> .tell chris_99 seems like you could do away with those interference filters if you just used a decent laser 10:35 < yoleaux> nmz787_i: I'll pass your message to chris_99. 10:37 < nmz787_i> JayDugger: to be honest I'm really not sure what units things would be in... since I am dealing with a CAD program that has some units for things like a page border and you can draw text in the CAD too using some kind of Font and Font size... for now I'm just continuing on and if that causes me issues I'll have to come back and visit this later 10:38 < nmz787_i> for now I have some rough approximation stuff happening, using some Windows system API to check formatted text size.... but I have a feeling the windows default DPI might be different than what the CAD tool is rendering into the PDF... so maybe the numbers I am using in my script are too small or something... I'll find out soon enough once I finish my code and try running 10:43 -!- Quashie [~boingredd@CPEbc4dfb5bf733-CMbc4dfb5bf730.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:43 -!- Quashie_ [~boingredd@CPEbc4dfb5bf733-CMbc4dfb5bf730.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:49 -!- Quashie_ [~boingredd@CPEbc4dfb5bf733-CMbc4dfb5bf730.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:56 -!- Quashie [~boingredd@CPEbc4dfb5bf733-CMbc4dfb5bf730.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:58 -!- anoncicada [anoncicada@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-yxfgnnaxxkppejlj] has quit [Changing host] 10:58 -!- anoncicada [anoncicada@unaffiliated/anarcanon] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:58 -!- anoncicada [anoncicada@unaffiliated/anarcanon] has quit [Changing host] 10:58 -!- anoncicada [anoncicada@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-yxfgnnaxxkppejlj] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:59 -!- Orpheon [~Orpheon@213.200.193.129] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:11 -!- Gurkenglas__ [Gurkenglas@dslb-178-000-182-226.178.000.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:15 -!- jaboja [~jaboja@vps.jaboja.pl] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:26 -!- jaboja [~jaboja@vps.jaboja.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:49 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:53 -!- cluckj [~cluckj@pool-108-16-231-242.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:57 < nmz787_i> hi chris_99 11:57 < chris_99> hey 11:57 < yoleaux> 17:35Z chris_99: seems like you could do away with those interference filters if you just used a decent laser 11:58 < chris_99> oh, yeah heh, i looked on aliexpress for one 11:58 < chris_99> but it seemed really expensive 11:58 < chris_99> for 589nm anyway 11:58 < chris_99> i'm not sure the significance of that wavelength 11:58 < chris_99> though 12:04 < chris_99> "The refractive index is normally measured at a temperature of 20°C using light with the wavelength of the sodium D line (589.29 nm) and is therefore expressed as nD20.", maybe you could use alternative wavelengths? i've no idea though 12:31 -!- PatrickRobotham [uid18270@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kfpduxdusveayskk] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 13:17 < nmz787_i> chris_99: probably used the sodium line of a HPS lamp... since they didn't have a laser? 13:20 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r167-57-215-132.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:23 < chris_99> you mean theres no particular significance with 589nm? 13:24 < chris_99> i'm also confused by this "To guarantee a high quality measurement with an accuracy of up to 0.00002 in the refractive index the wavelength has to be determined correctly. Therefore, in modern refractometers the wavelength is tuned to a bandwidth of +/-0.2 nm to ensure correct results for samples with different dispersions." 13:24 < chris_99> the interference filters i've seen 13:26 < chris_99> say FWHM of 10nm 13:37 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r167-57-215-132.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:39 < nmz787_i> chris_99: I don't think that wavelength is significant, as long as the source is narrow-bandwidth 13:41 < nmz787_i> chris_99: the accuracy statement could be talking about instability of the peak frequency, that the shift is within 0.2nm +- 13:41 < chris_99> yeah that'd make sense i guess, as you'd be calibrating it anyway 13:41 < chris_99> ahh didn't think about that 13:41 < nmz787_i> since even with a laser the freq can shift, I think heat dependent 13:41 < nmz787_i> so maybe the same with other light sources? 13:42 < chris_99> hmm, i'm not sure about things like sodium lights 13:42 < nmz787_i> I know with space telescopes they measure doppler shifts of spectral lines, but that has to do with the emitter/detector moving with respect to each other (i.e. earth and some star/planet with some oscillating orbit) 13:43 < nmz787_i> but there's nothing moving in the refractometer 13:43 < chris_99> if you can use any laser, that would make it really cheap :) 13:43 < nmz787_i> i guess optical cavity imperfections can add harmonics, which add apparent jitter 13:44 < nmz787_i> but I think consistency is probably more important 13:44 < nmz787_i> so if you're looking to measure beer, I think you'll have no issues with a cheap laser 13:44 < nmz787_i> I'd just check on what the most stable cheap lasers are 13:44 < chris_99> yeah that sounds a good plan 13:45 < nmz787_i> I feel like I've heard closer to IR is more stable (i.e. a red laser) 13:45 < chris_99> ah interesting 13:45 < nmz787_i> something about they aren't IR pumped or something 13:45 < nmz787_i> while the green lasers are freq doubled from IR 13:46 < Aurelius_Work2> not any more 13:46 < Aurelius_Work2> well, not all 13:46 < Aurelius_Work2> green lasers diodes were figured out in the last 5 or so years, but they're still expensive 13:46 < Aurelius_Work2> there's no particularly good use for them 13:47 < chris_99> yellow lasers sound interesting in how they work - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_pointer#Yellow 13:49 < chris_99> i thought i'd heard of something to do with green lasers being used for something to do with astronomy (other than pointing out stars) 13:50 < nmz787_i> laser guide star 13:50 < nmz787_i> basically they use the laser spot as a brightness calibration, as I recall 13:51 < nmz787_i> or maybe for aberration detection (and then correction) of the atmosphere 13:51 < nmz787_i> since it varies with time 13:52 < chris_99> just found this "If you fire a sodium laser into the air, it will excite those sodium atoms found at that particular altitude, which then spontaneously de-excite, creating an artificial light source to be used as a guide star." 13:52 < chris_99> could of sworn i'd seen a photo of an observatory with a green laser 13:55 < chris_99> it seems you can get laser refractometers btw nmz787_i, so you were right :) 13:56 < nmz787_i> honestly seems like something simple enough that could be on ebay or aliexpress 13:57 < nmz787_i> laser, prism, webcam or linear array, some optical glue, some plastic molding/housing 13:57 < chris_99> i've looked on aliexpress, couldn't find any, the cheapest i've seen is £90 iirc 13:57 < nmz787_i> hmm 13:58 < nmz787_i> I bet you could get the prism for $5 or 10 13:58 < chris_99> yeah, definitely 14:12 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lmigeeqasqocqhtf] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 15:19 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:36 -!- sandeepkr [~sandeep@111.235.64.4] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:04 -!- nmz787_i [~ntmccork@134.134.137.75] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:17 -!- nmz787_i [~ntmccork@134.134.139.74] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:18 -!- nmz787_i [~ntmccork@134.134.139.74] has quit [Client Quit] 17:27 < kanzure> eliezer ponders things https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/4hflr3/craig_wrights_signature_is_worthless/d2q997f 17:32 < drethelin> didn't the bitcoin price experience a huge fluctuation 17:33 -!- jtimon [~quassel@65.28.134.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:37 < c0rw1n> nah 17:37 < c0rw1n> ... huh. depends where 17:38 < c0rw1n> http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/chart.png?width=940&m=bitstampUSD&SubmitButton=Draw&r=60&i=Hourly&c=0&s=&e=&Prev=&Next=&t=S&b=&a1=&m1=10&a2=&m2=25&x=0&i1=&i2=&i3=&i4=&v=1&cv=0&ps=0&l=0&p=0& 17:40 < maaku> depends on you definition of "huge 17:42 < c0rw1n> yeah that too 17:42 < c0rw1n> about 10% is not much for bitcoin 17:42 < c0rw1n> just that i first checked the chart for bitcoin.de (the one i use) and that was completely flat :) 17:54 -!- jaboja [~jaboja@vps.jaboja.pl] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:00 -!- Darius [~quassel@cpe-158-222-160-123.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:04 -!- drewbot [~cinch@ec2-54-162-23-178.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:04 -!- drewbot [~cinch@ec2-54-159-70-122.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:12 -!- yashgaroth [~yashgarot@2602:306:35fa:d500:f5e0:f867:a11d:8d52] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:13 < kanzure> various weirdness, http://www.metzdowd.com/pipermail/cryptography/2016-May/029323.html 18:33 < maaku> kanzure: it's crazy. 18:35 < kanzure> yes. 18:39 < maaku> i've known iang. he's not a loony. but i have no explanation for this 18:50 < kanzure> let's chalk this up to "when in wonderand" or something 18:51 < kanzure> *wonderland 19:00 < maaku> Is there any wearable bio monitor that can detect early onset of heart attacks? 19:32 < drethelin> http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-29802581 not yet? though this article is pretty out of date 19:40 < streety> would a polar chest strap be able to detect a change in the ECG? 19:46 < drethelin> I think otc heart monitors could already do it given the right firmware 19:47 -!- PatrickRobotham [uid18270@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hfxhilhwxtmmjlbk] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:53 -!- fleshtheworld [~fleshthew@2602:306:cf0f:4c20:b47d:c1d9:593e:d84b] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:54 -!- mcleodx [~mcleodx@pa49-182-79-207.pa.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:57 -!- mcleodx [~mcleodx@pa49-182-79-207.pa.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:07 < maaku> That seems like the super easiest save lives tool. 20:07 < kanzure> yes but the most fun one is the epinephrine pens 20:11 < drethelin> people are pretty reluctant to take meds and stuff so wearing a chest strap every day might not be popular 20:12 -!- Gurkenglas__ [Gurkenglas@dslb-178-000-182-226.178.000.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:27 < maaku> Yeah I was thinking more like fitbit / smartwatch 20:34 < maaku> Those things have a pulse monitor. I wonder what the resolution is? I wonder if there are signs in the microstructure of a pulse to detect heart attacks 20:36 < drethelin> http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/teens-life-saved-fitbit-after-7154991 20:37 < drethelin> they're not really designed to monitor "microstructure'' 20:50 -!- Quashie [~boingredd@CPEbc4dfb5bf733-CMbc4dfb5bf730.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:51 -!- Darius [~quassel@cpe-158-222-160-123.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:24 -!- Orpheon [~Orpheon@213.200.193.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:03 -!- Orpheon [~Orpheon@213.200.193.129] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:53 -!- jaboja [~jaboja@vps.jaboja.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:07 -!- yashgaroth [~yashgarot@2602:306:35fa:d500:f5e0:f867:a11d:8d52] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:25 -!- sandeepkr_ [~sandeep@111.235.64.4] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:28 -!- sandeepkr [~sandeep@111.235.64.4] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:33 < maaku> They aren't, but what's the quality of the underlying data feed? 23:34 < maaku> What frequency do they sample with what sensory noise threshold? 23:54 -!- sandeepkr_ [~sandeep@111.235.64.4] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:54 -!- sandeepkr [~sandeep@111.235.64.4] has joined ##hplusroadmap --- Log closed Thu May 05 00:00:06 2016