--- Log opened Tue Jun 07 00:00:22 2016
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05:14 < kanzure> so it looks like murgen did not make its own probes. doing probe work seems like it could be useful even if it's a single piezo at first.
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06:20 < kanzure> "The attention schema theory: a mechanistic account of subjective awareness" http://journal.frontiersin.org/article/10.3389/fpsyg.2015.00500/full
06:22 < kanzure> seems familiar
06:23 < kanzure> oh same author was referenced in http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4010745/ this is why it seems familiar.
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06:32 < kanzure> "This is not a place of honor" http://www.wipp.energy.gov/picsprog/articles/wipp%20exhibit%20message%20to%2012,000%20a_d.htm
06:35 < kanzure> they should use statues of humans grabbing their stomachs and puking, and depictions of hair loss and tumors
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06:37 < kanzure> "Another thing not mentioned is to design the container so that anyone who plans to excavate will think they have hit rock bottom... like Pharoahs' tombs or a multi-level pirate cache."
06:38 < kanzure> "Or even better, put something horrible and poisonous twenty feet down. It might be better to obviously poison a couple people if they start digging this up. That would be easily understood and eventually avoided."
06:38 < kanzure> ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11851871 )
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07:20 < fenn_> they should bury the waste inside a fast reactor
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07:29 < kanzure> plz look at ultrasound imaging things from yesteday at some point
07:30 < kanzure> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1xvLWDbp0x6z0Ft3AsfxjIsLUNsg5smkTcYb1g4WVo5U/edit
07:30 < kanzure> https://github.com/kelu124/murgen-dev-kit
07:45 < JayDugger> May I make "The Daemon from Neckbeard Island" joke now?
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09:20 < nmz787_i> how is the code monkeying this morning?
09:21 < kanzure> http://www.mas.gov.sg/~/media/MAS/News%20and%20Publications/Consultation%20Papers/Consultation%20Paper%20on%20FinTech%20Regulatory%20Sandbox%20Guidelines.pdf
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09:57 < chris_99> nmz787_i, just having a look through my pdfs to see if i can find the one re. harddisks and MFM microscopy
10:12 < kanzure> "in my opinion the bottleneck in DNA synth is chemistry not engineering. Photo liable nucleotides mean you can dispense with the piezoelectric print head and use a projector system instead. but unless you can find somewhere to buy them or you can synthesise them easily yourself I'd say the chemical difficulty involved wouldn't justify the effort."
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10:20 < chris_99> nmz787_i, 'Data Reconstruction from a Hard Disk Drive using Magnetic Force Microscopy' not sure if that was the one i was originally thinking of though
10:24 < FourFire> kanzure, what is known of the neural structures which react to music?
10:25 < FourFire> I vaguely recall reading somewhere that current theories are pattern recognition looping over itself
10:38 < nmz787_i> hmm
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10:50 < kanzure> FourFire: current neuroscience believes that the human brain reacts to music using a homunculus that screams in agony every time you listen to music
10:50 < kanzure> these screams interfere with brain waves to produce reactions in the motor system
10:51 < cluckj> that is the best explanation I have heard about neuroscience in a long, long time
10:51 < FourFire> kanzure, huh, so that's why it feels like dying whenever my brain get's caugt by some piece of "Art"
10:52 < kanzure> that's more accurately called confusion
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11:03 < TMA> speaking of neural structures -- current deep learning neural networks are based on visual cortex topology (IIRC) is the connectome in other brain areas (say those relevant to speech) known in enough detail to be amenable to a similar topology pilfering?
11:06 < maaku> TMA: visual cortex is not recurrent
11:07 < maaku> TMA: CNNs are basically analogues to the visual or auditory cortex
11:07 < maaku> TMA: RNNs (an active area of deep learning research) are much more general
11:08 < maaku> whether it maps to how our brains happen to be structured I don't know; I don't think that's relevant :P
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12:16 < xentrac_> well, certainly our brains are recurrent.  whether they're similar to "RNNs" is a different question
12:17 < xentrac_> on the subway I saw an ad for some new cellphone with a 13-megapixel camera
12:18 < pasky> i want cellphone which makes sharp pictures, not hi-res pictures
12:19 < xentrac_> a little back-of-the-envelope math suggests that the pixel pitch on its sensor can't be much coarser than 3μm, which means that it's an adequate 85× microscope by itself (like http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2008-09/uoc--bht091008.php)
12:20 < xentrac_> with a fairly simple lens (focusing from a sample at 1mm to a focal plane sensor at 4mm, say) you should be able to get 300×
12:22 < xentrac_> perhaps more excitingly, if you can get rolling-shutter photos out of the chip at reasonably low latency, you should be able to get low-latency submicron positioning feedback for manipulators, eliminating the necessity for enormous stiffness to get micron-level positioning
12:23 < xentrac_> presumably Applied Materials and the like are already doing this kind of thing?  Or better?
12:23 < pasky> maaku: I think CNN as an analogue to auditory cortex is stretching it
12:23 < pasky> or auditory cortex architecture is surprising
12:23 < pasky> but i think you can't have too lateral convolutions there
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13:14 < nmz787_i> kanzure: so my FIB-operator buddy thinks the metalenses are not just diffraction, or maybe not even diffraction at all... but he thinks it may have something to do with reflection... where the nanofins act as small waveguides themselves. or act as small reflectors... almost like how a fresnel lense works
13:14 < kanzure> what happened to refraction
13:14 < nmz787_i> at the same time, he said I'm free to try fabbing some prototypes whenever I want
13:15 < nmz787_i> refraction is for media-change mostly... slightly different than reflection or diffraction
13:15 < nmz787_i> but if the fins are transporting photons, then they'd seem to be acting as refractors
13:15 < nmz787_i> I kind of think it might be all of the above, working in tandem
13:16 < nmz787_i> a first-try at my buddy's place would be to make the fins in silicon, then drop some hot plastic on that to take a casting
13:16 < xentrac_> diffraction, refraction, and reflection aren't really different phenomena; they blend into each other at the edges
13:16 < nmz787_i> the fins in that case would be impressions in clear plastic, so they'd still be a different media (air vs plastic) and would be much much shorter
13:17 < nmz787_i> xentrac_: yeah, which is why I'm thinking these metalenses are some combo effect of them all
13:17 < nmz787_i> that said, I feel like if that is right, then making a rigged-up version might yield similar but less efficient results
13:18 < nmz787_i> which could still be super interesting, since we have high brightness lasers available for cheap
13:19 < xentrac_> what are the cheap high-brightness lasers?
13:19 < nmz787_i> just the stuff at the dollar-stores or gas/petrol stations
13:20 < xentrac_> oh, barcode scanners?
13:20 < xentrac_> or laser pointers?
13:20 < nmz787_i> not a huge spot, so overall low power, but for that spot size they're much brighter than common flashlights and other light sources one might use for viewing things through lenses
13:21 < xentrac_> I think I am lacking cultural context here
13:21 < nmz787_i> laser pointers
13:21 < nmz787_i> here (red) laser pointers are like $1 each
13:21 < xentrac_> (I mean you could argue that refraction and reflection exist in geometrical optics, while diffraction doesn't, but the way that refraction and reflection happen in physical materials is through wave mechanics)
13:21 < xentrac_> 1mW red laser pointers?
13:21 < xentrac_> I think they cost about the same here
13:22 < nmz787_i> ok then, similar enough culture of cheap silicon
13:22 < xentrac_> or indium gallium arsenide, as the case may be
13:22 < xentrac_> apparently silicon's bandgap is ill-suited to making LEDs
13:23 < xentrac_> so do you mean the 1mW ones?  because I thought you meant more when you said "high brightness"
13:37 < chris_99> heh i'm just looking on ebay at green lasers which can light matches etc. they all seem to be classed as 1mW, that's surely not right
13:46 < nmz787_i> xentrac_: I just meant the $1 variety in general... that they're brighter than comparably priced flashlights or other lights of similar size (and price)
13:47 < nmz787_i> also in terms of things you would see with a microscope lens, if that was the metalens at hand.... a laser should be many times brighter than an average microscope light source... at least that's my gut feeling
13:47 < xentrac_> I'm not sure they are brighter; I think you can probably get 100mW white flashlight LEDs for about US$1 that have comparable efficiency to semiconductor lasers
13:48 < nmz787_i> yeah but they mW/cm^2 may be lower
13:48 < xentrac_> maybe, yaeh
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13:48 < xentrac_> but maybe not
13:48 < xentrac_> you could probably make a super bright light source by tiling the area underneath your microscope slide with white LEDs on a monster heatsink
13:49 < xentrac_> the advantage that the lasers have is that they're more monochromatic and have very low divergence, but I'm not sure those are advantages in this context
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13:57 < nmz787_i> nah i was just letting my head-thoughts out
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16:01 < fenn> "Tempted to try this [ultrasound] with an array of X5R capacitors. I’ve had them squeak at me many times when a regulator goes unstable."
16:05 < kanzure> since murgen wasn't doing any work with probes it seems reasonable to move forward, right
16:12 < fenn> a single board design with just electronic commodity components could be really cheap
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16:33 < xentrac_> fenn: X5R capacitors are the same thing as PZT piezoelectric actuators, right?
16:35 < xentrac_> well, I mean they're a subset
16:40 < fenn> apparently X5R is just a classification for temperature range and stability with temperature range
16:41 < fenn> "All class 2 ceramic capacitors using ferroelectric ceramics exhibit piezoelectricity"
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16:45 < fenn> "Class 2 capacitors are made of ferroelectric materials such as barium titanate (BaTiO
16:45 < fenn> 3) and suitable additives such as aluminium silicate, magnesium silicate and aluminium oxide."
16:45 < fenn> PZT is lead zirconate titanate
16:46 < xentrac_> I had the impression that the particular classifications of ceramic capacitors corresponded to different dielectrics, even though they talk about the performance features of the capacitor and not its composition
16:46 < fenn> yes most circuit designers don't care what it's made from
16:46 < xentrac_> and I thought that X5R was PZT
16:46 < xentrac_> but I could be wrong
16:46 < fenn> i don't know
16:46 < xentrac_> neither do I
16:47 < xentrac_> we are unified in our ignorance
16:47 < xentrac_> in other news
16:47 < fenn> https://www.researchgate.net/publication/234050545_Lead_Zirconium_Titanate_Alternatives_for_Nanoactuators
16:47 < xentrac_> http://www.darpa.mil/program/big-mechanism
17:01 < fenn> they would have to be non-ROHS capacitors because of the lead
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17:12 < nmz787_i> kanzure: my guess is anyone or their mom can buy a probe... and no one but FDA-cartel can buy the main device
17:13 < nmz787_i> so I'd venture to say aim for a device that can drive/receive from any probe (software upgrades/DSP dependent), and worry about making probes next
17:13 < nmz787_i> from what I remember, there are like 4 or 5 different probes that an owner might want
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18:06 < kanzure> probe price?
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18:24 < kanzure> iirc probes were somewhat stupidly expensive
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19:09 < fenn> i think the raw piezo element was like $50
19:14 < fenn> wonder how many "standards" there are with this many different probe types: http://www.providianmedical.com/ultrasound-probes/?utm_content=Ultrasound%20Probes
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19:47 < kanzure> the 2d array probes are definitely not $50
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--- Log closed Wed Jun 08 00:00:23 2016