--- Log opened Sun Nov 20 00:00:30 2016
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04:23 < archels_> http://www.whatsonweibo.com/chinese-robot-smashes-booth-injures-man-shenzhen-hi-tech-fair/
04:23 < archels_> looking for videos
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04:54 < kanzure> hm
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05:54 < kanzure> "The idea of changing the physics of the universe occurs several places in sci fi. E.g. the Heechee Saga has the Heechee hide themselves behond the event horizon of a black hole after they discover that some civilization appears to have made changes to the universe in order to trigger a big crunch followed by a new big bang with physics more to thir own liking."
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06:06 < kanzure> "Some of these are near stars that will burn for much longer than our sun, some for as much as 100 trillion years (Adams, 2008, p. 39)."
06:15 < kanzure> uhh what? nick's thesis ( https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=sites&srcid=ZGVmYXVsdGRvbWFpbnxuYmVja3N0ZWFkfGd4OjExNDBjZTcwNjMxMzRmZGE ) around page 81 something,
06:15 < kanzure> "How valuable is existential risk reduction in comparison with speeding up development? For similar reasons, it is plausible that existential risk reduction is more important, in itself, than speeding up development. As we saw in the above section, it is not unrealistic to consider scenarios in which humanity reduces existential risk by one in a million, and this results in an additional 10,00...
06:15 < kanzure> ...0 expected years of civilization. In contrast, the amount that we could realistically speed up humanity's technological and moral progress in this period is much more modest, probably measured in decades at best. Because of this, it's plausible that existential risk reduction is more important than speeding up development, provided we ignore ripple effects from speeding up development, a q...
06:15 < streety> do they specify what those changes are?
06:15 < kanzure> ...ualification I'll return to below."
06:18 < JayDugger> I think that "changing physics through advanced technology" first appeared in SF from Lem's Imaginary Magintude or his Microworlds, but I've now read either one recently.
06:19 < JayDugger> It's certainly not original to Liu.
06:19 < abetusk> Lem also mentioned it in his masters voice
06:20 < JayDugger> Oh, good catch. Do you remember what part?
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06:21 < abetusk> it was near the end.  There was some theory that aliens were changing the laws of physics in such a way as to keep pace with our changing technology?  I can't remember the specifics but I took it as Lem's way of saying "fuck you" to something or other
06:21 < JayDugger> Heh, heh.
06:21 < JayDugger> Near the end is good enough. I'll check in a day or two.
06:24 < kanzure> i have no idea where his assumption about slow technology development comes from
06:38 < abetusk> Yeah, I might have gotten that wrong.  It's been a while since I read it.  Just a quick glance shows some theories about setting up structures that would survive a crunch or changing laws of physics (I think) to still send the 'signal' that the book is concerned with, but I can't find the specific thing I thought I had read.... http://www.omegalib.com/read/db2c27c21f24c2df46845f5099361f0f.html?ext=html
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07:06 < kanzure> "If we live in a Small Universe, we'll have the best shot, since we may be the only ones who can do this. A consequence of this is that if we're uncertain what kind of universe we live in, if our goal is to maximize the probability of an infinitely good outcome (to say nothing of how infinitely good it is), it would be best to act as if we do not live in a Big Universe."
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07:10 < kanzure> "I can, however, make some general remarks about how we might be most likely to create an infinitely valuable outcome when we otherwise would not have had one. In order for some person's action to make an outcome infinitely better, three very strange things have to be true: (i) it is possible for the person to create an infinite amount of value, (ii) no one else has already done anything whi...
07:10 < kanzure> ...ch ensures that there will be an infinite amount of value (of the same order), and (iii) no one else will ever do anything that ensures that there will be an infinite amount of value of the same order (provided the person doesn't take the action)."
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07:43 < kanzure> http://emdrive.com/faq.html
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07:59 < kanzure> "A backward pass through a CNN using a generative model of its activations" https://arxiv.org/abs/1611.02767 https://twitter.com/Miles_Brundage/status/797259365980012544
08:00 < kanzure> "Deep learning with segregated dendrites" https://arxiv.org/abs/1610.00161 https://twitter.com/wake_sleep/status/793194984409276418 ("... it is unclear whether deep learning could occur in the real brain. Here, we show that deep learning can be achieved by moving away from point neuron models and towards multi-compartment neurons")
08:02 < kanzure> "Improving photosynthesis and crop productivity by accelerating recovery from photoprotection" http://science.sciencemag.org/content/354/6314/857 https://twitter.com/srikosuri/status/799421606040727552
08:02 < kanzure> "Crop leaves in full sunlight dissipate damaging excess absorbed light energy as heat. When sunlit leaves are shaded by clouds or other leaves, this protective dissipation continues for many minutes and reduces photosynthesis. Calculations have shown that this could cost field crops up to 20% of their potential yield. Here, we describe the bioengineering of an accelerated response to natural s...
08:02 < kanzure> ...hading events in Nicotiana (tobacco), resulting in increased leaf carbon dioxide uptake and plant dry matter productivity by about 15% in fluctuating light. Because the photoprotective mechanism that has been altered is common to all flowering plants and crops, the findings provide proof of concept for a route to obtaining a sustainable increase in productivity for food crops and a much-needed...
08:02 < kanzure> ... yield jump."
08:04 < kanzure> "Learning to reinforcement learn" https://arxiv.org/abs/1611.05763
08:05 < kanzure> ( https://twitter.com/DeepMindAI/status/799678002615517186 )
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10:05 < vicarion> why aren't plants already tuned to make full use of photosynthetic energy? they've been under selective pressure to do so for a very long time
10:07 < vicarion> also, another thought - if the cost of manufacturing drops much faster than the cost of transport, it would make more sense for people to live near the origin of raw materials, would it not?
10:08 < kanzure> evolutionary genetic landscape stuff prevents things from happening all the time
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10:22 < kanzure> http://2015.igem.org/files/poster/Tuebingen.pdf "we caged Cre recombinase with two light activatable Dronpa proteins[1,2]"
10:22 < kanzure> [2] Optical control of protein activity by fluorescent protein domains.
10:22 < anachronick> hey kanzure
10:22 < kanzure> [1]  Structural basis for reversible  photoswitching in Dronpa
10:29 < kanzure> "Optical control of protein activity by fluorescent protein domains" https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3702057/
10:29 < kanzure> "Fusion of mutant Dronpa domains to both termini of an enzyme domain creates a fluorescent light-inducible protein that is inactive in the dark but can be activated by light."
10:30 < kanzure> "A general method for regulating protein stability with light" https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3906921/
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10:30 < kanzure> "Posttranslational regulation of protein abundance in cells is a powerful tool for studying protein function. We here describe a novel genetically encoded protein domain that is degraded upon exposure to non-toxic blue light. We demonstrate that fusion proteins containing this domain are rapidly degraded in cultured cells and in zebrafish upon illumination."
11:02 < kanzure> antennas_: hi.
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12:11 < fenn> "can the EmDrive produce enough thrust for terrestrial applications?
12:11 < fenn> A. The second generation engines will be capable of producing a specific thrust of 30kN/kW. Thus for 1 kilowatt (typical of the power in a microwave oven) a static thrust of 3 tonnes can be obtained, which is enough to support a large car."
12:13 < chris_99> were NASA going to test one in space?
12:13 < chris_99> or is that what the new paper is about
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13:22 < TMA> vicarion: see wikipedia RuBisCO and photorespiration
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16:27 < kanzure> "Restoring conscious arousal during focal limbic seizures with deep brain stimulation" https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26941379
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16:37 < kanzure> .wik galantamine
16:37 < yoleaux> "Galantamine (Nivalin, Razadyne, Razadyne ER, Reminyl, Lycoremine) is used for the treatment of mild to moderate Alzheimer's disease and various other memory impairments, in particular those of vascular origin." -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galantamine
16:40 < ebowden> Does it do useful things other than inhibit AChE?
16:41 < kanzure> lucid dreaming stuff, but yeah mostly acetylcholinesterase inhibitation
16:41 < ebowden> Would the lucid dreaming be related to AChE inhibition?
16:42 < ebowden> I think there are better tolerated AchE inhibitors.
16:42 < ebowden> Oh
16:42 < kanzure> hm?
16:43 < ebowden> It does some other things.
16:43 < ebowden> "Galantamine is a potent allosteric potentiating ligand of human nicotinic acetylcholine receptors (nAChRs) ?4?2, ?7/5-HT3, ?3?4, and ?6?4 in certain areas of the brain..."
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16:45 < kanzure> huperzine too
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17:04 < kanzure> "Mysteries of pedunculopontine nucleus physiology: Towards a deeper understanding of arousal and neuropsychiatric disorders" https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4608880/
17:04 < kanzure> "Pedunculopontine arousal system physiology - Implications for insomnia" https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4608886/
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17:15 < kanzure> yashgaroth: bioviva is in seattle?
17:15 < yashgaroth> parrish lives on bainbridge island, they don't have facilities or anything that I'm aware of
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17:16 < kanzure> .wik klotho
17:16 < yoleaux> "Disambiguation: Klotho" -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klotho
17:16 < kanzure> .wik klotho (biology)
17:16 < yoleaux> "Klotho is an enzyme that in humans is encoded by the KL gene." -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klotho_(biology)
17:16 < Aurelius> I'm in Seattle now
17:16 < Aurelius> \o/
17:17 < yashgaroth> I wish they had more biotech, I'd be back in an instant
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17:18 < Aurelius> yashgaroth : I'm enjoying it. Sami just found a job
17:19 < yashgaroth> well there's plenty of jobs there in everything but biotech if you're thinking of moving
17:19 < Aurelius> technically we're in Redmond
17:19 < Aurelius> we live on the lake
17:19 < Aurelius> *the edge of
17:19 < yashgaroth> oh you're like living there already huh
17:19 < kanzure> is bioviva in seattle?
17:20 < yashgaroth> in the sense that the head of bioviva lives in a suburb of seattle, yeah
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17:22 < yashgaroth> she's in europe/uk quite a lot, including right now apparently
17:22 < kanzure> where did she want the biology stuff to happen though?
17:23 < yashgaroth> oh there's been a few candidates, south america, fucking kazakhstan, last I heard she wanted to get a group of UK grad students/slave laborers to do it in england
17:24 < kanzure> kazakhstan would be good, you could steal a copy of scihub for me
17:24 < kanzure> ( https://vk.com/sci_hub )
17:25 < yashgaroth> idk I've never lived more than 50 miles from an ocean, but I don't think it was that seriously considered
17:25 < yashgaroth> if it was in the US, Seattle would've been the choice, but who knows
17:25 < Aurelius> My mom is considering trying the gdf-11 dosing
17:25 < kanzure> someone was looking for gdf-11 volunteers. was that you?
17:25 < Aurelius> No, but I know people who might be interested
17:26 < Aurelius> that was probably Steve Perry, no?
17:26 < Aurelius> or w/e his name was
17:26 < kanzure> nah it was you, i just checked
17:26 < Aurelius> wait, what? I think I was asking who had tried it on themselves
17:26 < Aurelius> I'm not trying to run a study or anything
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17:27 < kanzure> welp, i knew you were related somehow, i just got all the details wrong. great...
17:28 < Aurelius> :P I'm mostly just curious seems it seems to have some efficacy and it's reasonably cheap.
17:28 < Aurelius> Oh, I introduced you to Alfred, who wanted to try doing it to himself.
17:28 < Aurelius> So he can stay pretty longer.
17:29 < yashgaroth> where is gdf-11 cheap?
17:30 < Aurelius> https://www.peprotech.com/en-US/Pages/Product/Recombinant_Human_GDF-11/120-11 it's 80 bucks for 5ug, but I seem to remember he was using nanograms at a time?
17:31 < yashgaroth> shit if they're serious I can make it for way cheaper than that
17:31 < Aurelius> yashgaroth : I dunno, I could introduce you to Alfred on fb
17:32 < yashgaroth> sure, I mean if 5ug is an effective dose then try out peprotech, but that's absurdly expensive and an extremely low dose for a biologic
17:33 < Aurelius> the dose is actually....
17:33 < Aurelius> like 2 ng/month or something
17:34 < Aurelius> You've read all of the research Steve Perry did right?
17:34 < yashgaroth> nope, I'll look into it
17:36 < Aurelius> http://gdf11rejuvenation.com
17:37 < yashgaroth> ok I don't trust some dude shooting up with it and posting a trip report when most studies are 0.1-1 mg/kg per week (even accounting for 8x higher metabolism in mice generally), especially with a prep that's probably dirty, misfolded, and full of endotoxin
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17:38 < Aurelius> yashgaroth : he followed up with a bunch of volunteers, iunno
17:38 < yashgaroth> ok time for me to break into the market and sell this stuff for $100/mg and still make a massive profit apparently
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17:40 < kanzure> yashgaroth: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/longevity/gdf11-steve-perry/
17:41 < kanzure> including the hilarious "i am h. pylori" rant (super rare)
17:42 < yashgaroth> "its molecular structure is conserved across all vertebrate species.  Which proves how important it is to life" ugh
17:44 < yashgaroth> well according to this guy it's a fucking panacea at nanogram doses, I'm sure he is totally unbiased
17:45 < yashgaroth> "CEO at GDF11 Rejuvenation, Inc" oh
17:46 < Aurelius> he started the company after the self dosing btw
17:46 < yashgaroth> oh I'm sure he did
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18:03 < ebowden> Why would people want to take GDF-11?
18:04 < Aurelius> ebowden : anti-aging effects, supposedly
18:04 < yashgaroth> papers from harvard and some other places have identified it as (one of the, possible) mediators of the "young blood" effect where blood from young mice causes old mice to behave in tests as less aged
18:05 < ebowden> This looks like it suppresses neurogenesis.
18:07 < ebowden> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23065635
18:07 < kanzure> .title
18:07 < yoleaux> Hippocampal neurogenesis and ageing. - PubMed - NCBI
18:09 < ebowden> Unsurprisingly, neurogenesis declines with ageing.
18:12 < ebowden> I do wonder if GDF-11 would make some aspects of ageing, such as the decline in neurogenesis, worse.
18:14 < yashgaroth> oh wow the amazon vendor he suggests buying it from has the 6xHis tag and the thrombin cleavage site sequence still attached to the protein
18:17 < yashgaroth> wait it's just the whole precursor protein, minus half of the actual supposedly functional mature peptide?
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18:49 < streety> For the GDF-11 thing is he claiming you start with a set amount on reaching adulthood and steadily loose it? No production, vanishingly small degradation/loss?
18:50 < yashgaroth> I don't know what that guy's claiming since he's apparently never been within 50 feet of a biologist, but the argument seems to be that as production and levels of GDF11 decline with age
18:51 < yashgaroth> half-life of GDF-11 in blood is probably on the order of minutes, so you're not starting adulthood with a set amount of it, it's being produced constantly
18:54 < yashgaroth> err, ignore that "as" near the end of my first statement
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18:56 < kanzure> yashgaroth: i think you should email him so that he doesn't waste his time, if he is wrong
18:57 < yashgaroth> I mean GDF11 may possibly be functional, but not at the doses and protein quality he's using; seems like he's already wasted a few years of his time on it tbh
18:58 < yashgaroth> I'll see about posting on that thread but it's gonna be a long post and my natural reaction to seeing this kind of shit is to just drink
18:59 < kanzure> well, think of it this way, maybe you write more hilarious emails when drunk :)
19:00 < yashgaroth> either way the longecity thread seems more active, and I have my doubts he'll read the email and go "oh that's a good point, time to close up shop" when I imagine 90% of the people interested in it are getting their info from the forum
19:00 < yashgaroth> especially when the guy has a third-grader's understanding of biology
19:01 < yashgaroth> this is like rob rhinehart going "oh I can disrupt food" and almost kills himself due to forgetting that sulfur is a necessary nutrient, then nerds go out and chug mold-filled bottles of soylent, writ small
19:02 < yashgaroth> fuck this is why I don't go on longecity
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19:02 < streety> yeah, it seems a bizarre rationale for picking a dose
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19:03 < yashgaroth> he had symptoms consistent with a reaction to bacterial contaminants, so he dropped the dose until he got a nice placebo effect
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19:18 < kanzure> .wik la machine (production company)
19:18 < yoleaux> "La Machine is a French production company based in Nantes, France, which is famous for La Princesse, a 50-foot mechanical spider constructed in Nantes, France." -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Machine_(production_company)
19:19 < kanzure> here is the contraption in action https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxajilZcgTo&t=1m50s
19:20 < ebowden> kanzure, if there were ever an anti-ageing formulation it would probably have to target a variety of different pathways.
19:20 < kanzure> yes i would imagine it would have to remove most pathways because they are dumb and broken :)
19:21 < ebowden> Well, they're doing their thing just fine.
19:22 < kanzure> huh? but it's all broken. and aging and stuff. we don't want that.
19:22 < MMMalign> A carbonic anhydrase inhibitor would do ~
19:22 < ebowden> They never had to keep you alive for that long.
19:23 < MMMalign> http://nypost.com/2016/10/10/miracle-anti-aging-pills-are-one-gigantic-step-closer-to-becoming-reality/
19:23 < MMMalign> Like ellagic acid. Works for wrinkles, too https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20113347
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19:25 < kanzure> "Mitochondrial proteomic profiling reveals increased carbonic anhydrase II in aging and neurodegeneration" http://www.aging-us.com/article/NcuE5Js5Rp7A5ywEM/text
19:25 < kanzure> "... We show C.elegans exposed to carbonic anhydrase II have a dose related shorter lifespan suggesting that high CAII levels are in themselves life limiting. We show for the first time that the mitochondrial content of brain and skeletal tissue are exposed to significantly higher levels of active carbonic anhydrases as early as in middle-age."
19:26 < kanzure> yes so we should remove that....
19:27 < MMMalign> start eating pomegranates like your life depended on it
19:37 < kanzure> fenn: http://n55.dk/MANUALS/MICRO_DWELLINGS/micro_dwellings.html
19:41 < MMMalign> http://inhabitat.com/spherical-ekinoid-house-is-an-off-grid-prefab-solution-for-global-housing/
19:56 < kanzure> mumble mumble, something about non-24
19:57  * kanzure pokes fenn
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20:34 < fenn> huh what
20:36 < fenn> ekinoid looks like crap
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20:44 < kanzure> MMMalign was maybe going to mumble to you about non-24 things
20:44  * kanzure sleeps
20:44 < fenn> if it's "take melatonin at noon" i've heard it
20:45 < kanzure> no i mean mutual mumbling, not unidirectional mumbling.
20:47 < kanzure> hmph https://github.com/opentimestamps/opentimestamps-client/pull/23
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--- Log closed Mon Nov 21 00:00:17 2016