--- Log opened Fri Apr 14 00:00:26 2017 00:31 -!- ExeciN [ExeciN@bnc.stormbit.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:42 -!- poppingtonic [~brian@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:00 < adlai> chirality... what a brilliant idea! we just need to make sure that all humans + foodchain after a certain rebiogenesis date are born and bred with opposite handedness! ... or maybe 'solving' antibiotic resistence is similar to solving an entropy shortage by hashing 01:01 < adlai> i mean, bacteria are part of biology. they evolve... i can't help but laugh at the idea of directly preventing this 01:04 < adlai> .title 01:04 < yoleaux> adlai: Sorry, that doesn't appear to be an HTML page. 01:05 < adlai> "A complication is that REM sleep normally only follows a period of slow-wave sleep, so deprivation of slow-wave sleep will also interfere with REM sleep." << how come there hasn't been formal study of the polyphastic mumbojumbo? they claim to go directly to REM (do not pass deep, do not collect shallow either) 01:07 * adlai skims the pseudoscience on this issue and clarifies - formal study of the 'uberman' schedule 01:08 < cevi_> don't polyphasic sleep cycles require a week or so before you adjust to it? It seems hard to get a large group of volunteers to participate in such a long-term study 01:08 < adlai> why would they be volunteers? people get paid to sit in hospitals doing nothing all the time 01:09 < cevi_> er, I meant test subjects 01:09 < adlai> (they're usually being paid for the risk of a new drug having an effect in humans that was not detected in nonhuman assays... i see no difference here, other than the lack of Big Pharma motive) 01:09 < cevi_> anyway, it seems like the experiment would be really annoying to carry out 01:10 < cevi_> especially without a real motive 01:10 < cevi_> or any evidence that it is a real thing 01:10 < adlai> nah, people enjoy depriving their subjects of sleep, ask any veteran of 'intelligence' services 01:11 < adlai> there is a lot of anecdotal evidence. i guess that falls midway between 'any' and 'none'. 01:11 < cevi_> ok, now that I think about it, it does seem like _someone_ should have tried this experiment 01:13 < cevi_> how old is the idea? 01:16 < adlai> the published military manuals cited in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biphasic_and_polyphasic_sleep#In_extreme_situations are from the turn of the 21st century, i assume the ~idea~ has been floating around for a while 01:16 < adlai> ... and THAT would be a natural source of funding for such experiments, if they're not already doing it 01:17 < adlai> oh, Buckminster Fuller invented "Uberman", not some internet nobody 01:17 < adlai> "The short article about Fuller's nap schedule in Time in 1943, which also refers to such a schedule as "intermittent sleeping," says that he maintained it for two years, and further notes "he had to quit because his schedule conflicted with that of his business associates, who insisted on sleeping like other men."" 01:21 < jcorgan> adlai: i have some personal experience with some non-traditional, polyphasic sleep schedules, though of course this is n=1 anecdotal evidence 01:21 < adlai> oh please do tell! (PM if it's too spammy, although i'm not sure monologue limits exist here...) 01:22 < adlai> in other rants: 01:22 < adlai> .title http://www.sleepingschedules.com/rights/manifesto/ 01:22 < yoleaux> Polyphasic Rights Manifesto :: sleepingschedules.com 01:22 < jcorgan> in the military i spent extended times in three different schedules 01:23 < jcorgan> one of them was 12 awake, 6 asleep, for many weeks 01:23 < jcorgan> and those 6 asleep were frequently interrupted 01:24 < jcorgan> but overall this worked out surprisingly well, as the ratio of awake/asleep tended toward the usual 1/3 01:24 < jcorgan> heh, 2/1 01:25 * adlai did 24/12 for a while in a (superficially) similar situation 01:26 < jcorgan> another routine schedule was 12 on duty, 12 off duty, 36 on duty, 12 off duty 01:26 < adlai> (although my shifts consisted of babysitting radios, so naptime wasn't officially allowed but always happened) 01:27 < adlai> that at least stays in-phase with the sun 01:27 < adlai> but you never did more frequent cycles, like Fuller's? 01:28 < jcorgan> the former 12/6 was while underway on a nuclear submarine; the latter 12/12/36/12 was while in port 01:29 < jcorgan> since then i have been successful with the "siesta" schedule of 4.5 overnight and 1.5 in the afternoon 01:31 < jcorgan> this latter is what i tend to converge to if i have no other constraints on my time 01:32 < jcorgan> but while on travel or when i have to conform to more traditional expectations of being awake/asleep, the 25 min "power nap" also works well 01:33 < jcorgan> i have never attempted the uberman schedule, and while i see no inherent reason why it wouldn't work, i am skeptical as most of the anecdotal reports i've seen have been rather...unremarkable. 01:34 < cevi_> how expensive would it be to do a decent study on uberman? I'm thinking a month long, with 100 test subjects, maybe give them cognitive tests throughout 01:35 < cevi_> if you pay $10/hour, it might only cost $720,000 01:36 < jcorgan> it's hard to imagine someone having the $720k to spend and either the curiosity or the return on investment to go forward with that 01:36 < cevi_> grant? 01:37 < adlai> urgh, it looks like a study was already done, but the paper isn't available: https://scholar.google.co.il/scholar?cites=3066070288069887850 01:38 < adlai> "Stampi began by testing the performance of his subjects when they were getting a full eight hours of normal sleep, administering a short cognitive test that was easy to repeat. Then he had them shift to their three-hour routines. After more than a month, the monophasic group showed a 30 percent loss in cognitive performance. The group that divided its sleep between nighttime and short naps showed a 25 01:38 < adlai> percent drop. But the polyphasic group, which slept exclusively in short naps, showed only a 12 percent drop." (results of that study, summarized in https://www.outsideonline.com/1823431/miles-go-i-sleep ) 01:39 < jcorgan> https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-1-4757-2210-9_12#page-1 01:41 < jcorgan> https://is.muni.cz/th/363896/fss_b/Tomas-Votruba-Psychological-Impacts-of-Polyphasic-Sleep.txt 01:42 < adlai> nice, this Tomas used an n=1 of himself, for his dissertation 01:43 < jcorgan> i haven't done any systematic investigation, but i'm convinced from my own n=1 experiences that the biphasic main sleep period plus siesta is most natural, and the 8 hours sleep/16 hours awake is unnatural 01:44 < jcorgan> also, we now have the benefit of modern pharmacology to help craft our sleep/awake needs into something more suitable to the flexibilities needed for modern life and travel 01:48 -!- JayDugger [~jwdugger@47.185.237.246] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:48 < adlai> the one person i knew who claimed (past tense, he died a couple years back) to have successfully maintained a six-nap-per-day schedule said that he couldn't use anything during this time 01:50 < archels_> fenn_: yo 01:50 < jcorgan> i've never known anyone personally who has tried anything like that 01:51 < archels_> .to fenn_ didn't have much success with the first print of the thread--it was too big to fit. Do you have any heuristics/refs on tolerances one ought to use? 01:51 < yoleaux> archels_: I'll pass your message to fenn_. 01:53 < jcorgan> from what i've read, nap-only sleep schedules are incredibly sensitive to deviations in schedule 02:18 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@2001:8003:1174:d800:8cd4:2ac:d60e:d4ea] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:18 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@2001:8003:1174:d800:8cd4:2ac:d60e:d4ea] has quit [Changing host] 02:18 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@unaffiliated/ebowden] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:29 -!- poppingtonic [~brian@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:32 -!- CRM114 [~urchin@unaffiliated/urchin] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:15 -!- Jen [~Jen@cpc76808-brmb10-2-0-cust571.1-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:52 -!- augur [~augur@94.116.39.238] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:07 -!- Jen [~Jen@cpc76808-brmb10-2-0-cust571.1-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:10 -!- augur [~augur@94.116.39.238] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:44 -!- JayDugger [~jwdugger@47.185.237.246] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:50 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:55 -!- maaku_ [~mark@173.234.25.100] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:56 -!- maaku [~mark@173.234.25.100] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:57 -!- maaku [~mark@173.234.25.100] has quit [Client Quit] 04:58 -!- maaku [~mark@173.234.25.100] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:01 -!- maaku [~mark@173.234.25.100] has quit [Client Quit] 05:01 -!- maaku [~mark@173.234.25.100] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:09 -!- ExeciN [ExeciN@bnc.stormbit.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 05:14 -!- Jen [~Jen@cpc76808-brmb10-2-0-cust571.1-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:18 -!- ExeciN [ExeciN@bnc.stormbit.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:36 < adlai> yeah, i greatly resent my university for scheduling a SEVEN-HOUR lab which makes it impossible for me to try something like this anytime soon 05:38 -!- poppingtonic [~brian@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:50 < kanzure> adlai: see pm 05:51 -!- poppingtonic [~brian@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:54 < archels_> .to fenn_ thinking of going for 0.2 mm tolerance on the radius for the next print (i.e. .4 on the diameter) 05:54 < yoleaux> archels_: I'll pass your message to fenn_. 06:18 -!- Jen [~Jen@cpc76808-brmb10-2-0-cust571.1-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:31 < kanzure> "Strategies for culture of 'unculturable' bacteria" http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1574-6968.2010.02000.x/full 06:36 < kanzure> and https://scholarworks.iu.edu/dspace/bitstream/handle/2022/3149/Microbial%20Growth.pdf;sequence=1 06:40 < kanzure> .wik gas-pak 06:40 < yoleaux> "Gas-pak is a method used in the production of an anaerobic environment. It is used to culture bacteria which die or fail to grow in presence of oxygen (anaerobes)." -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas-pak 06:42 < kanzure> i bet a viral technique would be helpful: you could just deliver a bunch of metabolism genes to make those cells grow on agar or whatever, and then you go spelunking to find weird streaking microbes from that. 06:45 < kanzure> aquatic fungi http://www.umich.edu/~mycology/resources/Publications/james.berbee.bioessays.2012.pdf 07:02 -!- augur [~augur@94.117.254.173] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:19 -!- Gurkenglas__ [~Gurkengla@dslb-178-000-217-120.178.000.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:21 -!- programers [~programer@196.192.88.37] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:35 -!- poppingtonic [~brian@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:37 < kanzure> "Enhancing Multiplex Genome Editing by Natural Transformation (MuGENT) via inactivation of ssDNA exonucleases" http://biorxiv.org/content/early/2017/04/13/127308 https://twitter.com/biorxivpreprint/status/852642682082140160 07:38 -!- poppingtonic [~brian@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:49 -!- adlai is now known as others 07:49 -!- others is now known as adlai 07:55 -!- programers [~programer@196.192.88.37] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:55 -!- programers [~programer@196.192.88.37] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:27 -!- chris_999 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:28 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:31 -!- Gurkenglas__ [~Gurkengla@dslb-178-000-217-120.178.000.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:33 -!- chris_999 is now known as chris_99 08:42 -!- programers [~programer@196.192.88.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:00 -!- poppingtonic [~brian@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 09:12 -!- augur [~augur@94.117.254.173] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:15 -!- augur [~augur@94.117.254.173] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:49 -!- anachronick [~kvirc@a85-138-147-224.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:49 < anachronick> hello 09:49 < anachronick> what is the generalized opinion towards the latest longevity news? 09:59 < kanzure> disregard news, acquire adenovirus vectors 10:08 < juri_> disregard people, rebuild old SEMs. 10:30 -!- augur [~augur@94.117.254.173] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:33 < jcorgan> i swear it must take extra work to (inaccurately) dumb down science or engineering news, but i find it hilarious/sad to compare news headlines with actual claims made in the papers they are based on 10:36 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@unaffiliated/ebowden] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:37 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@unaffiliated/ebowden] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:46 -!- anthk_ [~anthk_@90.82-130-184.dynamic.clientes.euskaltel.es] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:01 -!- programers [~programer@196.192.88.37] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:04 -!- programers [~programer@196.192.88.37] has quit [Client Quit] 11:05 -!- programers [~programer@196.192.88.37] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:05 -!- programers [~programer@196.192.88.37] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:19 -!- pompolic [~A@unaffiliated/pompolic] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:26 -!- pompolic [~A@unaffiliated/pompolic] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:30 -!- anthk_ [~anthk_@90.82-130-184.dynamic.clientes.euskaltel.es] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:36 -!- augur [~augur@94.117.218.73] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:38 -!- augur [~augur@94.117.218.73] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:39 -!- augur [~augur@94.117.218.73] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:52 -!- justan0theruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:52 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:53 < kanzure> "We would like to thank you for taking the time to complete our recent survey regarding BioViva's therapies and trials. This information is greatly appreciated and will assist us in developing our clinic and trial protocols as we move forward this year. Given your interest in our treatments we would like to invite you a call with our CEO Liz Parrish, Chief Scientific Officer Dr. Avi Roy, and... 11:53 < kanzure> ... Chief Medical Officer Dr. Jason Williams. We hope to gather more information on the requirements and needs of any potential patients, and discuss ways to expedite therapeutic access. Investors will of course have priority access to new therapeutic options following the opening of our first operational clinic this year." 13:16 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:23 -!- Gurkenglas__ [~Gurkengla@dslb-178-000-217-120.178.000.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:23 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:30 -!- es [51636f7a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.81.99.111.122] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:33 -!- jenelizabeth [~jenelizab@cpc76808-brmb10-2-0-cust571.1-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:48 < kanzure> es: hi. 13:52 -!- dingo [dingo@1984.ws] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:52 < es> hello 13:52 < es> how active is this channel? 13:56 < justanotheruser> probably 50 lines per day 14:01 -!- augur [~augur@94.117.218.73] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:02 < es> thats not so bad 14:02 -!- Gurkenglas__ is now known as Gurkenglas 14:05 < kanzure> es: http://gnusha.org/logs 14:06 < es> thanks 14:07 < es> since 2008 14:07 -!- augur [~augur@94.117.218.73] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:07 -!- augur [~augur@94.117.218.73] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:07 -!- augur [~augur@94.117.218.73] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:07 < kanzure> es: some background, http://diyhpl.us/wiki/hplusroadmap 14:08 < es> ty kanzure 14:08 < es> i found you via https://hpluspedia.org/wiki/Chat 14:08 < es> i restocked on some supplements today 14:10 < es> pretty standard stuff like vit d, fish oil, coenzymeq10 & ginkgo 14:10 < kanzure> what is your background 14:11 < es> comp games design 14:11 < es> how about you 14:11 < kanzure> advanced world domination strategy 14:12 < es> do you have a 5 year plan? 14:46 -!- augur [~augur@94.117.218.73] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:06 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:23 < kanzure> "Remote control of cellular signaling using DREADD technology" https://www.sfn.org/~/media/SfN/Documents/Short%20Courses/2013%20Short%20Course%20I/SC1%20Roth.ashx (2013) 15:27 < kanzure> "Mnemonic training reshapes brain networks to support superior memory" http://www.cell.com/neuron/abstract/S0896-6273(17)30087-9 15:27 < kanzure> unfortunately it's an fMRI study. 15:45 -!- jenelizabeth [~jenelizab@cpc76808-brmb10-2-0-cust571.1-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:48 < kanzure> "Gene expression correlates of unexplained fatigue" https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Toni_Whistler/publication/7169144_Gene_expression_correlates_of_unexplained_fatigue/links/09e4150bc5cfc339bf000000.pdf (2006) 16:06 -!- Gurkenglas [~Gurkengla@dslb-178-000-217-120.178.000.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:28 -!- CRM114 [~urchin@unaffiliated/urchin] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:35 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:38 -!- Gurkenglas [~Gurkengla@dslb-178-000-217-120.178.000.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:41 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:10 < kanzure> blort 17:18 -!- CRM114 [~urchin@unaffiliated/urchin] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:35 -!- es [51636f7a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.81.99.111.122] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:33 -!- fleshtheworld [~fleshthew@2602:306:cf0f:4c20:299e:3d1b:15b2:b3fd] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:01 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@unaffiliated/ebowden] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:01 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@2001:8003:1174:d800:8cd4:2ac:d60e:d4ea] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:01 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@2001:8003:1174:d800:8cd4:2ac:d60e:d4ea] has quit [Changing host] 19:01 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@unaffiliated/ebowden] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:16 -!- yashgaroth [~yashgarot@2606:6000:cd4d:3300:59f7:4c83:54f6:457b] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:20 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@unaffiliated/ebowden] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:21 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@2001:8003:1174:d800:8cd4:2ac:d60e:d4ea] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:21 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@2001:8003:1174:d800:8cd4:2ac:d60e:d4ea] has quit [Changing host] 19:21 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@unaffiliated/ebowden] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:19 -!- Gurkenglas [~Gurkengla@dslb-178-000-217-120.178.000.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:46 < kanzure> yashgaroth: https://www.veritasgenetics.com/mygenome 20:47 < yashgaroth> the enormous photo of george on the 'about' page is somehow reassuring, not a bad price either 21:13 -!- fleshtheworld [~fleshthew@2602:306:cf0f:4c20:299e:3d1b:15b2:b3fd] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:08 -!- Jen [~Jen@cpc76808-brmb10-2-0-cust571.1-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:15 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@unaffiliated/ebowden] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:16 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@unaffiliated/ebowden] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:26 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@unaffiliated/ebowden] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:27 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@unaffiliated/ebowden] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:32 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ibgdmsuoqelktgzu] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:42 < nmz787_> http://news.mit.edu/2017/MOF-device-harvests-fresh-water-from-air-0414 22:42 < nmz787_> .title 22:42 < yoleaux> Water, water everywhere ... even in the air | MIT News 22:56 -!- yashgaroth [~yashgarot@2606:6000:cd4d:3300:59f7:4c83:54f6:457b] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:57 -!- helleshin [~talinck@cpe-174-97-113-184.cinci.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:01 -!- hehelleshin [~talinck@cpe-174-97-113-184.cinci.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:18 < anachronick> what do you people think of the existential risk we're all facing since a few days ago? ( NK situation ) 23:18 < jcorgan> orange is the new black --- Log closed Sat Apr 15 00:00:27 2017