--- Log opened Wed Jul 26 00:00:31 2017 00:51 -!- poppingtonic [~brian@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:13 -!- poppingtonic [~brian@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:18 -!- cevi_ [~zeb@128.12.245.10] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:45 -!- poppingtonic [~brian@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:00 -!- poppingtonic [~brian@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:12 -!- darsie [~darsie@84-113-55-42.cable.dynamic.surfer.at] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:21 -!- poppingtonic [~brian@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:21 -!- hylleddin [~hylleddin@2604:a880:1:20::1056:3001] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:21 -!- rancyd [stryfe@unaffiliated/rancyd] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:21 -!- altersid_ [~pa@ns305903.ip-91-121-222.eu] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:22 -!- altersid [~pa@ns305903.ip-91-121-222.eu] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:22 -!- blueskin [~blueskin@unaffiliated/blueskin] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:24 -!- thxffo [SMD@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-gwjppsqnsrlgjppm] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:27 -!- hylleddin [~hylleddin@2604:a880:1:20::1056:3001] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:27 -!- blueskin [~blueskin@unaffiliated/blueskin] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:29 -!- poppingtonic [~brian@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:29 -!- thxffo [SMD@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-iathpaosvjzguiru] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:45 -!- thxffo [SMD@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-iathpaosvjzguiru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:47 -!- thxffo [SMD@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-xwfccpdmecmjmrtb] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:12 -!- altersid_ is now known as altersid 03:35 -!- poppingtonic [~brian@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 03:35 -!- Gurkenglas [~Gurkengla@dslb-178-005-166-215.178.005.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:57 -!- poppingtonic [~brian@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:59 -!- CRM114 [~urchin@unaffiliated/urchin] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:17 < kanzure> bring out your dead 04:20 < cluckj> I'm not dead 04:21 < kanzure> you sure? 04:23 < cluckj> well I'm getting better 04:24 < archels_> just finished writing this up https://gist.github.com/turingbirds/5fa6275781232c1c4e563a43c4042bf2 04:29 < archels_> .title 04:29 < yoleaux> Bessel filter design.ipynb · GitHub 04:30 < kanzure> musics https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwuGKIaZkBE 05:19 -!- poppingtonic [~brian@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 05:19 -!- hehelleshin [~talinck@cpe-174-97-113-184.cinci.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:22 -!- helleshin [~talinck@cpe-174-97-113-184.cinci.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:25 -!- cevi_ [~zeb@128.12.245.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:30 -!- hehelleshin [~talinck@cpe-174-97-113-184.cinci.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:33 -!- RebelCoder [~Yuriy@5.134.222.156] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:41 -!- poppingtonic [~brian@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:47 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:48 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Client Quit] 05:50 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:10 -!- poppingtonic [~brian@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:32 -!- poppingtonic [~brian@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:31 -!- helleshin [~talinck@cpe-174-97-113-184.cinci.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:36 < maaku> archels_:what's the context for the bessel filter stuff? 08:38 < maaku> I admit that real control theory is mostly over my head, but someone much smarter than me has recommended bessel filters for an application I'm working on 08:38 < maaku> (blockchain difficulty adjustment, to replace a simple linear filter) 08:46 -!- poppingtonic [~brian@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:51 < archels_> maaku: I'm using one as an aliasing filter for a DAC 08:52 < archels_> they have the best impulse response, without overshoot or ringing 08:52 < archels_> (usually explained in terms of having a relatively constant group delay) 08:52 < maaku> At some point I may have to buy some of your time to walk me though how I'd apply one to my application (PM me) 09:07 < kanzure> btc-e prediction 63b865e0ca3f26514956d35bd1a5b078 09:19 -!- jtimon [~quassel@14.29.134.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:26 < maaku> SFYL? 09:28 -!- Douhet [~Douhet@unaffiliated/douhet] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:29 -!- Douhet [~Douhet@unaffiliated/douhet] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:38 < kanzure> actually i don't know the preimage. 10:00 < JayDugger> what does the hash refer to, kanzure? 10:10 < kanzure> it's a prediction. i can commit to a prediction, without revealing the prediction. in this case i don't know the prediction though. 10:16 -!- Douhet [~Douhet@unaffiliated/douhet] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 10:17 -!- Douhet [~Douhet@unaffiliated/douhet] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:20 < nmz787> archels_: I was just looking into how to build pre-emphasis and de-emphasis filters in Python, a few days ago... for analog signal integrity stuff 10:22 < nmz787> archels_: have you used the filter in a DSP (or CPU or FPGA)? 10:53 -!- jaboja [~jaboja@jaboja.pl] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:04 < archels_> nah, this is the aliasing filter for a DAC so it has to be in the analog domain 11:05 < archels_> once it's prototyped, the next thing on the list is direct digital synthesis on an FPGA 11:09 -!- ExeciN [ExeciN@bnc.stormbit.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:16 -!- augur [~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:22 < JayDugger> Thank you, kanzure. 11:27 < nmz787> archels_: not sure what you mean... are you saying the analog frequencies are much higher than your digital systems? I'm also confused as you go on to say you'll use DDS... which seems to fit into the DSP/CPU/FPGA category 11:38 -!- jcluck [~cluckj@static-98-114-202-142.phlapa.ftas.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:42 -!- cluckj [~cluckj@static-98-114-202-142.phlapa.ftas.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:42 -!- jcluck is now known as cluckj 11:50 < archels_> nmz787: ah, meant the implementation of the filter... it'll be real capacitors and op-amps, rather than a digital implementation (FIR or IIR filter) 11:51 < archels_> there might be further filters on the digital side of things (in the FPGA) to overcome the imperfections of the analog aliasing filter of the DAC, but the latter has to be in the analog domain 11:57 -!- jaboja [~jaboja@jaboja.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:57 < kanzure> http://blog.wizsec.jp/2017/07/breaking-open-mtgox-1.html?m=1 11:57 < kanzure> it seems to me like there was a withdrawal transaction replacement bug (where withdrawal transactions would not conflict with each other, thus allowing for duplicated withdrawals): https://www.reddit.com/r/mtgoxinsolvency/comments/6p0r2p/if_it_was_really_transaction_maleability/dkr4u4g/ 11:57 < kanzure> but this article seems to be claiming that the btc-e operator had the mtgox private keys 12:10 -!- danfox-laptop [~danfox@vulpinedesigns.co.uk] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:10 -!- danfox [~danfox@vulpinedesigns.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:10 < jrayhawk> https://twitter.com/laurilove/status/890266253062963205 hahaha 12:10 -!- danfox-laptop is now known as danfox 12:16 < kanzure> why does nsh have a shoulder bird 12:17 -!- hehelleshin [~talinck@cpe-174-97-113-184.cinci.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:20 -!- rk[ghost] [~rak@c-76-121-96-192.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:20 -!- helleshin [~talinck@cpe-174-97-113-184.cinci.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:23 -!- jtimon [~quassel@14.29.134.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:33 < jrayhawk> he's a government secret data pirate 12:35 < jrayhawk> i wonder how many green amazons are getting named alexa these days 13:10 -!- Guest43_ [~textual@tmp985aebddb8d7.GENE.CWRU.Edu] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:11 -!- augur [~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:15 -!- jaboja [~jaboja@jaboja.pl] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:16 -!- Guest43_ [~textual@tmp985aebddb8d7.GENE.CWRU.Edu] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 13:20 -!- augur [~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:25 -!- balrog [~balrog@unaffiliated/balrog] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:28 -!- jaboja [~jaboja@jaboja.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:30 -!- augur [~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:34 -!- poppingtonic [~brian@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:36 -!- augur [~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:38 -!- jaboja [~jaboja@jaboja.pl] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:38 -!- Guest43_ [~textual@tmp985aebddb8d7.GENE.CWRU.Edu] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:45 -!- Guest43_ [~textual@tmp985aebddb8d7.GENE.CWRU.Edu] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 13:58 -!- poppingtonic [~brian@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:59 -!- poppingtonic [~brian@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:21 -!- Malvolio [~Malvolio@unaffiliated/malvolio] has quit [Quit: Malvolio] 14:26 -!- poppingtonic [~brian@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:39 -!- Darius [~quassel@66-215-89-229.dhcp.psdn.ca.charter.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:42 -!- ExeciN [ExeciN@bnc.stormbit.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:50 -!- jaboja [~jaboja@jaboja.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:55 -!- emeraldgreen [~user@92.222.68.248] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:58 < kanzure> .title https://blog.exodusintel.com/2017/07/26/broadpwn/ 14:58 < yoleaux> Broadpwn: Remotely Compromising Android and iOS via a Bug in Broadcom’s Wi-Fi Chipsets | Exodus Intelligence 14:59 -!- jaboja [~jaboja@jaboja.pl] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:00 -!- Gurkenglas_ [~Gurkengla@dslb-178-005-166-215.178.005.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:03 -!- Gurkenglas [~Gurkengla@dslb-178-005-166-215.178.005.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:07 -!- Darius [~quassel@66-215-89-229.dhcp.psdn.ca.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:09 -!- jaboja [~jaboja@jaboja.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:15 -!- jaboja [~jaboja@jaboja.pl] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:24 -!- jaboja [~jaboja@jaboja.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:17 -!- QuadIgni is now known as FourFire 16:25 -!- Malvolio [~Malvolio@unaffiliated/malvolio] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:34 -!- preview [~quassel@2407:7000:842d:4000::2] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:40 -!- augur [~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:43 -!- augur [~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:52 -!- jtimon [~quassel@14.29.134.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:55 -!- fenn_ is now known as fenn 16:59 -!- sivoais [~zaki@unaffiliated/sivoais] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:06 -!- abetusk [~abe@68.175.143.22] has quit [Killed (wolfe.freenode.net (Nickname regained by services))] 17:07 -!- abetusk [~abetusk@p20030045460267A840B7197810707070.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:07 -!- Guest77357 [~abe@68.175.143.22] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:07 < abetusk> kanzure, Nils is in Munich 17:23 -!- balrog [~balrog@unaffiliated/balrog] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:32 -!- augur [~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:33 -!- augur [~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:33 -!- augur [~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:59 < kanzure> whoops. 18:36 -!- yashgaroth [~yashgarot@2606:6000:cd4d:3300:f5e0:f867:a11d:8d52] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:56 -!- augur [~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:56 -!- augur [~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:56 -!- augur [~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:07 -!- augur [~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:10 < docl> I wonder how effective ion beams are for transmitting momentum between two objects at a distance in space 19:14 < docl> been looking at an idea analogous to mx-tethers. instead of tethers it's pulsed ion beams from a swarm of small satellites. 19:14 < kanzure> what was the long-range matter beam concept called. it wasn't an atom laser. i don't think it was masers.. 19:15 < docl> maser is microwave, not particle 19:16 -!- augur [~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:17 < kanzure> docl: the thing you are thinking of is a "beamrider", http://www.orionsarm.com/eg-article/460c3685cd4c4 19:18 < docl> so my hope is that you could have say 1000 1-kg pulser craft in orbit, and they would be able to accelerate a single 1 kg to orbit every few hours. then your doubling time is about a month. 19:19 < kanzure> and "boostbeam" http://www.orionsarm.com/eg-article/517edaa0de9c7 although only the other page mentions momentum transfer. 19:22 < kanzure> and "magnetic drive sails" http://www.orionsarm.com/eg-article/54ee3dd3291c0 19:23 < docl> thanks 19:23 < kanzure> your goal is accelerate to orbit, but from what altitude? 19:23 < kanzure> surely not 0? 19:24 < docl> it needs another method to get the altitude 19:24 < docl> space guns capable of that aren't too prohibitive, I think 19:26 < kanzure> if you shoot something off the edge of the planet, it goes into orbit, right? 19:26 < kanzure> i don't actually know. 19:29 < docl> depends which flat earth theory you follow. in some, the magical field of the great turtle needs to be accounted for. 19:35 < docl> a falling object from 200 km hits the ground at 2,000 m/s not accounting for air resistance 19:36 < docl> so the velocity needed to get to that height is going to be similar. 19:38 < docl> orbital velocity is around 8,000 m/s, which is 16 times as much kinetic energy. 19:49 < docl> https://www.centauri-dreams.org/?p=38164 19:49 < kanzure> so a giant receiving pad for all that kinetic energy, and then mechanical infrastructure to transfer the energy to a spring-released launchpad. 19:50 < kanzure> oh you probably don't want to start from altitude=0 though. since yu mentioned mx tethers. 19:50 < kanzure> *you 19:50 < docl> right 19:50 < kanzure> fiiiine. 19:51 < docl> start at orbit altitude, get to orbit. or maybe just use it to correct what would otherwise be a wonky orbit 19:52 < docl> you could in principle use a gun with mx-tether as well. hmm. 20:03 < docl> the sailbeam thing I just linked to might be a good option instead of an ion plume, basically it works by using intense light to accelerate a cloud of microscopic sails which then impact the target to transfer momentum to it 20:07 < kanzure> .title 20:07 < yoleaux> SailBeam: A Conversation with Jordin Kare 20:15 -!- danfox [~danfox@vulpinedesigns.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:19 -!- danfox [~danfox@vulpinedesigns.co.uk] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:30 -!- Darius [~quassel@66-215-89-229.dhcp.psdn.ca.charter.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:34 -!- Gurkenglas_ [~Gurkengla@dslb-178-005-166-215.178.005.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:58 -!- Malvolio [~Malvolio@unaffiliated/malvolio] has quit [Quit: Malvolio] 21:10 < kanzure> "Stratospheric Controlled Perturbation Experiment (SCoPEx)" to release calcium carbonate into atmosphere https://projects.iq.harvard.edu/keutschgroup/scopex 21:11 < kanzure> "Even one of the scientists leading the experiment told the Guardian that solar geoengineering was a “terrifying prospect.”" welp time to find some new scientists... geeze. 21:12 < kanzure> oh it says "even one" not "every one of the scientists". that's not s obad. 21:17 -!- brujo_biologica [~brujo@50-248-185-14-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:19 < kanzure> reason@fightaging.org mumbling about NF-κB and things https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14861348 21:19 < kanzure> "Hypothalamic programming of systemic ageing involving IKK-β, NF-κB and GnRH" https://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v497/n7448/full/nature12143.html 21:19 < kanzure> "Hypothalamic stem cells control ageing speed partly through exosomal miRNAs" https://www.nature.com/nature/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/nature23282.html 21:22 -!- cevi_ [~zeb@128.12.245.10] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:35 < kanzure> yashgaroth: could you please write some fan fiction for this? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14831204 21:35 < kanzure> an HN user asks, "Just wondering, if you "have some funding for crazy gene therapy projets", what does that mean? Where does "outside funding" usually come from? I imagine Larry Ellison flying you over in his private jet and saying "kanzure, I want to live longer, here's some cash please make it happen". Is it like that?" 21:37 < yashgaroth> I think fanfic is more a thing for big yud 21:37 < kanzure> yud? 21:37 < yashgaroth> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXARrMadTKk 21:38 < kanzure> oh. the kowsky factor. 21:38 < kanzure> "Eliezer leaned back in his chair. "Mr. Musk, what can I do for you?". The two engaged in a blissful staredown as their eyes locked." fuck this i can't do it 21:38 < yashgaroth> supposedly aubrey is helping? to run some ~$20 million fund thing, haven't looked into it, or who's funding them 21:39 < yashgaroth> also hbo's silicon valley already did the parabiosis thing 21:39 < kanzure> this is a wonderful video and it has brought joy into my life, thank you. 21:40 < yashgaroth> tried to convince jojack to crash raadfest with me, but he was worried people would recognize him 21:41 < kanzure> pffft 21:41 < kanzure> "my face is so beautiful. they will definitely know me." 21:41 < yashgaroth> "I recognize those rock-hard abs" 21:41 < kanzure> on his face? 21:41 < yashgaroth> yeah man have you seen his abs 21:42 < yashgaroth> they go allll the way up 21:44 < yashgaroth> I don't get where the presumed super-billionaire funding is going, especially larry ellison who I hear is a huge prick and probably wouldn't care if he was known to be spending money on life extension 21:44 < yashgaroth> but then the life extension field is 99.5% pseudoscience scams so maybe they're not convinced 21:47 < kanzure> maybe i'll just leave a link to that video as the reply instead. 22:05 < fenn> .title 22:05 < yoleaux> The Ballad of Big Yud (Eliezer Yudkowsky) - YouTube 22:10 < fenn> docl: most beamed propulsion speculation is about interstellar travel, since it's about the only way to do it. but jordin kare designed a very reasonable scalable laser launch system just to get small payloads into orbit: http://www.niac.usra.edu/files/library/meetings/fellows/mar04/897Kare.pdf http://fennetic.net/irc/897Kare_final.pdf 22:10 < fenn> the transmitters could either be in orbit or on the ground 22:21 < adlai> re: putting stuff in orbit - reserving energy for "course corrections" is mandatory. if all your impulse is given at the outset your payload will follow an elliptical orbit back to its starting point, a path which likely passes through your launch equipment and/or planet. 22:23 < adlai> the only way i can see a gun-based system plausibly working is with the gun at orbital altitude firing "horizontally", but you'd still have to move the gun out of the future path of ~each~ projectile 22:24 < kanzure> alright i have attempted a reply: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14831204 22:25 < yashgaroth> glad to have contributed 22:27 < fenn> the laser launch system would still need an apogee kick to circularize, but it's not as bad as a gun 22:28 < fenn> it can still steer since it's just a fancy steam rocket 22:29 < fenn> i don't really understand docl's idea, since an ion beam going fast enough to not spread out would be going too fast to extract a large fraction of energy from 22:30 < kanzure> is any spread at all tolerable? 22:30 < fenn> adlai you can fire a gun at an MX tether and it will circularize the orbit and it will not be in the way 22:31 < kanzure> a lot of these discussions sound like "gosh if only there was a way to capture and receive large amounts of kinetic energy distributed over various surface areas" and i keep wondering about materials that handle impacts in weird ways by sending the energy to distant other locations etc. 22:32 < fenn> beam sails tend to be depicted as large superconducting loops 22:32 < fenn> they work by deflecting the charged particle and thereby momentum is imparted 22:32 < kanzure> i can't hear you because i am too busy singing "big yud" 22:32 < fenn> fortunately you can't make me click on that link 22:33 < kanzure> you're no fun ever since you moved to eliezer's maximum security prison for the mentally dangerous. 22:33 * adlai wonders to what degree an MX tether could function as a "two-way exchange", gaining momentum from controlled deorbits 22:33 < fenn> adlai: 100% 22:33 < fenn> garbage bags full of moon rocks 22:34 -!- Malvolio [~Malvolio@unaffiliated/malvolio] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:34 < fenn> is "deorbit the moon!" supervillainy enough 22:34 < adlai> or old satellites that are better crashed in a known location than tracked indefinitely as space trash 22:35 < fenn> the satellites are not in exactly the right place to be picked up by a tether 22:35 < fenn> you'd have to go get them 22:35 * adlai is reading Gamow's "Biography of the Earth" now - interesting read, more for historical context than up-to-date knowledge - "deorbit the moon" sounds straight out of that book 22:36 < fenn> i guess geosynchronous orbit is a small enough volume that you could have a dedicated tether for deorbiting geo sats 22:36 < adlai> it's from just before space travel became not a joke, so anything about it is treated there in half-jest, as wild speculation. also he says mars definitely has vegetation. 22:36 < fenn> it would be on a hohmann transfer to another tether in LEO 22:37 < adlai> it seems to me that, assuming the payloads aren't making major corrections themselves, any orbit that was entered via tethers, can be exited in a reverse sequence, returning the momentum 22:37 < adlai> modulo orbital phase issues 22:37 < fenn> yeah but that's a zero sum game 22:37 < fenn> there's a million zillion tons of moon rocks for free 22:38 < fenn> you could build your own continent 22:38 < fenn> and your own moon too 22:38 < adlai> what about all that gold in the astroid field - you could bring back gravitational AND financial potential with the same vessel 22:38 < fenn> meh 22:39 < fenn> deorbiting nitrogen to mars 22:39 < fenn> something there's actual demand for! 22:40 -!- Darius [~quassel@66-215-89-229.dhcp.psdn.ca.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:40 < fenn> the cool thing about an interplanetary tether transport network is that it doesn't matter where you put momentum into the system 22:40 < fenn> you could deorbit nitrogen to mars and use that momentum to launch ships from earth 22:41 < fenn> or the other way around 22:46 -!- yashgaroth [~yashgarot@2606:6000:cd4d:3300:f5e0:f867:a11d:8d52] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:48 < fenn> i've never heard of this "smart particles" acceleration beam scheme 22:54 -!- poppingtonic [~brian@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:56 < adlai> pardon my vulgar ignorance, but why is there "actual demand" for nitrogen on mars? 22:56 < fenn> for the terraforming effort 22:56 < adlai> ignorance and/or morning unimaginativeness 22:57 < fenn> there's only so much gold you can dump on a market 22:57 < adlai> sure sure, what exactly does the nitrogen do. i mean, are you just dumping it in the atmosphere to make it more familiar, or using it in a reaction to achieve some other end? 22:57 < fenn> you need some kind of inert gas for plants to grow 22:58 < fenn> i believe lichens are fine at low pressure 22:58 -!- abetusk [~abetusk@p20030045460267A840B7197810707070.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:58 < fenn> at low pressure the water evaporates quickly and plants think they're dying 22:59 < fenn> also it keeps fires from starting 22:59 < adlai> ooh ooh i've got one 22:59 < fenn> i mean with a pure oxygen atmosphere you get accidental fires 23:00 < adlai> take the rocks from the moon, and put them on mars 23:00 < fenn> why 23:00 < adlai> add enough mass to mars and it'll be able to hold a denser & wetter atmosphere 23:00 < fenn> it's not a good trade, there are already rocks on mars, and you get more energy per gram if you take them to earth 23:01 < fenn> mars needs a magnetosphere, not more mass 23:01 < adlai> it won't be able to reach an earthlike atmosphere without more mass, although i guess there's a lot of improvement possible without this silly idea 23:02 < fenn> well, superkuh is our resident expert on this subject 23:02 < fenn> i never heard the conclusion of his research 23:04 < fenn> i suppose you could substitute helium for nitrogen 23:05 < adlai> not if gamow's babble still has any validity over half a century later... helium will escape to space much much faster 23:05 < adlai> if you're looking for inert gas substitutes, this consideration suggests looking for higher molar mass gasses 23:05 < adlai> which also gives a much larger search space, compared to "lighter than nitrogen" 23:06 < fenn> i don't know where to get that much argon 23:09 < adlai> maybe k40 electron capture can be induced/accelerated 23:11 -!- darsie [~darsie@84-113-55-42.cable.dynamic.surfer.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:11 * adlai dejectedly goes back to figuring out how to pass this semester 23:13 < kanzure> meanwhile, you're missing out on gmax wondering about cat roar SNPs/gene editing project. 23:18 < kanzure> (i suspect it's actually cat throat/voicebox anatomy not really just a single SNP or two to get the big cat roar back.) 23:23 -!- sachy [~sachy@nat.brmlab.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:50 -!- poppingtonic [~brian@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:55 -!- poppingtonic [~brian@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has joined ##hplusroadmap --- Log closed Thu Jul 27 00:00:32 2017