--- Log opened Tue Sep 12 00:00:16 2017 00:08 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/aeiousomething] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:10 -!- poppingtonic [~brian@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:13 < fltrz> it seems they even said so themselves: "The United States Atomic Energy Commission chairman announced that the Plowshares project was intended to "highlight the peaceful applications of nuclear explosive devices and thereby create a climate of world opinion that is more favorable to weapons development and tests"" 00:15 -!- poppingtonic [~brian@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:19 < fltrz> anyway, CVE & "responsible disclosure" by-definition-equated to centralized vuln reporting is the same thing to cyber as PNE was to nuclear 00:21 -!- jaboja [~jaboja@5.196.225.175] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:26 -!- night [~Adifex@unaffiliated/adifex] has quit [Excess Flood] 00:27 -!- night [~Adifex@unaffiliated/adifex] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:30 -!- HTTP_____GK1wmSU [~DEEP-BOOK@103.27.125.238] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:32 -!- HTTP_____GK1wmSU [~DEEP-BOOK@103.27.125.238] has left ##hplusroadmap [] 00:33 -!- poppingtonic [~brian@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:09 -!- poppingtonic [~brian@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:10 -!- poppingtonic [~brian@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:14 -!- poppingtonic [~brian@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:17 -!- jaboja [~jaboja@jaboja.pl] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:27 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wtietvnaabumuqyu] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:28 -!- poppingtonic [~brian@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:31 -!- darsie [~username@84-113-55-42.cable.dynamic.surfer.at] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:34 -!- RebelCoder [~Yuriy@95.143.115.254] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:40 -!- Urchin [~urchin@unaffiliated/urchin] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:43 -!- augur [~augur@192.195.83.130] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:55 -!- jaboja [~jaboja@jaboja.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:55 -!- esmerelda [~mabel@71-212-24-130.tukw.qwest.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:56 -!- poppingtonic [~brian@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:59 -!- poppingtonic [~brian@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:01 -!- esmerelda [~mabel@71-212-24-130.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Changing host] 02:01 -!- esmerelda [~mabel@unaffiliated/jacco] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:04 < fltrz> kanzure: did you see the recent documentary.. about the US colonel that was eventually arrested on bioterrorism charges? 02:05 < fltrz> there was this kid and he had started to bond with one of the bioweapons... 02:05 < fltrz> that situation totally got out of hand 02:06 -!- HEx1 [~HEx@hexwab.plus.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:08 < fltrz> I guess you already know about that one though.. 02:14 -!- poppingtonic [~brian@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:17 -!- poppingtonic [~brian@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:20 < fltrz> it's called 'my pet dinosaur' :P 02:22 -!- poppingtonic [~brian@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:29 < fltrz> http://prl.aps.org/abstract/PRL/v110/i16/e168702 02:30 < fltrz> .title 02:30 < yoleaux> Phys. Rev. Lett. 110, 168702 (2013) - Causal Entropic Forces 02:30 < fltrz> the entropica algorithm, takes the option that maximizes the future options 02:31 < fltrz> it passes a bunch of intelligence tests for animals (i.e. collaborating to retrieve an object only retrievable by working together) 02:32 < fltrz> now, the algorithm does assume knowledge of the number of options/moves from a given state/position 02:33 -!- augur [~augur@198-27-215-123.static.sonic.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:35 -!- bluebear_ [~dluhos@80.95.97.194] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:36 < fltrz> so I was wondering, if we could train a very small NN to make the same/similar move to the entropica algorithm... and then perturb the good weights enough-but-not-too-much such that from the wrong weights and averaging over different inputs 02:36 < fltrz> so that we may be able to deduce the local to neuron weight update rule that approaches entropica 02:36 < fltrz> i.e. to make it self - learning by experience 02:38 -!- poppingtonic [~brian@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:38 -!- jaboja [~jaboja@jaboja.pl] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:40 -!- y0ur1 [~y0ur1@gateway/tor-sasl/y0ur1] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:45 -!- Gurkenglas__ [~Gurkengla@dslb-178-000-222-214.178.000.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:53 -!- Gurkenglas__ [~Gurkengla@dslb-178-000-222-214.178.000.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:32 -!- augur [~augur@198-27-215-123.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:42 -!- poppingtonic [~brian@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:46 -!- poppingtonic [~brian@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:14 < kanzure> didn't know about it no 04:16 < kanzure> fltrz: bitcoin used to have an alert key but there are many problems with that concept. so i don't think your "open full disclosure" works. 04:17 < fltrz> there are certainly many problems 04:18 < fltrz> but I think they are less problematic than centralizing to a small group of decision makers who get to choose who's to be able to maintain a secure and who's to be unable to maintain a secure implementation 04:19 < kanzure> anyway yes you should centrally report the vulnerabilities to the bitcoin developers. they have an amazing track record of fixing and handling these problems. 04:19 < fltrz> (I was aware there used to be a hardcoded pub key of dev's in bitcon) 04:19 < fltrz> kanzure: I am talking about vuln disclosure in general, i.e. different currencies in competition 04:19 < fltrz> not even currencies alone 04:20 < fltrz> different softwares using the same crypto library 04:20 < kanzure> there are altcoins that are authored by downright malicious vendors... you can't seriously expect this to work out positively for users? 04:20 < fltrz> suppose different users of the library use statically compiled crypto lib 04:21 < fltrz> the issue of centralized "responsible disclosure" is much wider than cryptocurrencies alone 04:22 < fltrz> suppose someone finds a vuln in the crypto lib, so he goes and "responsibly discloses" to some supposed true representative maintainers 04:22 < fltrz> all the softwares that compiled the lib statically are fucked for a transition period 04:23 < fltrz> the fact that such a thing is so,.. is just that, the fact that it is so... better have programmed unavailability (possibly user overridable, but then he will be warned while doing so) 04:23 < fltrz> this way developers of all sw, that say rely on the crypto lib have time fix the problem 04:25 < fltrz> of course bitcoin has great team, its the oldest and biggest cryptocurrency, a lot of people have a stake in it so it better be, ... that does not make the current disclosure mechanism the safest one though 04:25 < kanzure> essentially the problem reduces to the good guys need to be more effective than the bad guys. 04:26 < fltrz> what I'm saying is historically the bad guys infiltrate the good guys 04:26 < kanzure> uhuh. when was djb infiltrated? 04:26 < fltrz> bitcoin is not djb 04:27 < kanzure> oh that solves everything 04:27 < fltrz> ? 04:28 < kanzure> you are spreading conspiracy theories about security researchers. please be careful. 04:28 < kanzure> brb 04:29 < fltrz> when some men make nets and sell them to fisher men, and when a bunch of fisherman agree a time and date to step on a boat, and when they then go and catch fish, was there a conspiracy to catch fish or what? 04:30 < fltrz> from their perspective its their job and duty 04:30 < fltrz> I'm not saying all the developers etc are infiltrants 04:32 < fltrz> exactly who should people disclose responsibly to? suppose I find a bug in bitcoin-derived-crypto X, and I responsibly disclose it to developers of X... but the same vuln was applicable to bitcoin... I admit its a concocted example, but if... would you want me to disclose the vuln to X or to bitcoin? 04:32 < fltrz> suppose I did not care to check if it worked for btc 04:33 < fltrz> "responsible disclosure" pre-assumes a universally established authority to disclose to 04:33 < fltrz> the fact that different people invest in different currencies is proof that such authority is not yet universally established 04:34 < fltrz> the most sane thing to do it seems, is to work in common interest, bug? => inform all! dangerous? => halt protocols 04:35 < fltrz> if it eliminates the 'paranoid' risk of CVE et al salvation-army-of-exploits, thats only a plus, feel free to call it marginally small, but it's not a negative 04:51 -!- mrdata [~mrdata@unaffiliated/mrdata] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:53 -!- mrdata [~mrdata@unaffiliated/mrdata] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:00 < kanzure> "is proof that"... what? why would you expect investors to be good at security ? 05:04 < kanzure> "halt protocol" is itself a security problem 05:29 < andytoshi> maaku: no, i'm hanging out in KC entirely unrelatedly to harvey (though i did happen to escape it). it wasn't too bad in austin, just localized flooding i hear and my apt is well above the ground 05:29 < andytoshi> i'm here for 2 weeks as a trial run for a permanent move, which i haven't really decided on either way 05:36 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wtietvnaabumuqyu] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 05:40 < kanzure> don't leave me 05:42 < andytoshi> well, so far i'm leaning toward not, this place is pretty cool but so is austin, and moving is quite a hassle 05:53 -!- poppingtonic [~brian@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:06 -!- jaboja [~jaboja@jaboja.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:08 -!- poppingtonic [~brian@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:41 < kanzure> andytoshi: i'm surprised to see so many people advocating for immediate release of knowledge of vulnerabilities O_O 06:49 < kanzure> "Numerous uncharacterized and highly divergent microbes which colonize humans are revealed by circulating cell-free DNA" http://www.pnas.org/content/114/36/9623.abstract 06:50 < andytoshi> kanzure: yeah, security work is frustrating in that most people necessarily have zero idea of what goes on 06:50 < kanzure> we're at the point where people are directly sending emails to linuxfoundation.org where they state they are outright malicious. that's what this thread is. 06:51 < andytoshi> jeez 06:51 < kanzure> "we should disclose to all the altcoin developers before deploying the fix!" <--- oooor you could choose to **not** arm everyone with sploits. 06:52 < andytoshi> it should die down soon enough. presumably anyone receiving these LF mails has enough sense to ignore it 06:58 < kanzure> hmm how to reconcile this with "deploy all the viruses!" in biologyland 07:01 < bluebear_> kanzure: some people simply want to see the world burn 07:03 -!- will_ [82f5c019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.130.245.192.25] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:07 -!- will_ [82f5c019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.130.245.192.25] has quit [Client Quit] 07:07 < kanzure> well, i mean, it's not particularly virtuous to prefer to have unstable insecure biology everywhere 07:08 < kanzure> and the deployment of easy cheap biotech tools might look like it directly contributes to mass extinction, but arguably not deploying as much would also be dangerous to a similar degree. 07:09 < cluckj> boop 07:10 < cluckj> or leaving those tools solely in the hands of potentially/usually bad actors (the state, corporations) 07:12 < kanzure> musics https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NL6TMup64ik&t=13m40s 07:12 < kanzure> https://www.lonelyspeck.com/the-milky-way-in-los-angeles-light-pollution/ 07:16 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:29 < andytoshi> bluebear_: i think in this case there is more a sense that people want to know things that might be important to them and really don't like the idea that knowledge would be kept secret from them for any reason 07:29 < andytoshi> and can't intuitively see how that could be dangerous or even harmful 07:29 < kanzure> 07:26 <+nsh> there's no complex ecology without predation 07:29 < kanzure> 07:27 <+nsh> part of being ethical is having the humility to perceive clearly the boundaries of what can be done 07:29 < kanzure> 07:27 <+nsh> and preventing exploitation cannot be done, generally or univerally 07:29 < kanzure> 07:27 <+nsh> *universally 07:29 < kanzure> from the perspective of my friends who care about questions like "is it okay to torture nsh for eternity in a simulation, if it improves the lives of a billion other people by a significant amount according to nsh", it's entirely possible that predation is necessary evil but you should at least have the decency to not default to the literally worst option all the time. 07:31 < cluckj> hah 07:31 < kanzure> 07:31 <+kanzure> i think there's a minimum amount of due diligence you must adhere to before you disclose/exploit. you can't just default to "destroy anything weak". 07:31 < kanzure> 07:31 <+kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/futurism/Who%20steers%20who%20steers%3f%20A%20note%20on%20identifying%20vulnerable%20moral%20propensities.pdf 07:33 < bluebear_> maybe there is a technical difference between biology and hacking here... 07:33 < bluebear_> in biology, we probably really want to know as much as possible as fast as possible because missing knowledge directly translates to lost lives 07:34 -!- esmerelda [~mabel@unaffiliated/jacco] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:36 < andytoshi> irresponsibly disseminated knowlege can also translate to lost lives in biology. i'm not sure how big this difference is 07:37 < cluckj> I'm not sure that hacking is that much different in that respect, especially for biohackers doing work on medical devices 07:38 < kanzure> biology is already highly vulnerable and millions die from totally basic viruses 07:39 < andytoshi> i was excited by the hgp-write proposal to fuck with stop codons to decouple our dna from that of the viruses who evolved alongside us 07:39 < kanzure> https://diyhpl.us/wiki/transcripts/hgp-write/2016-05-10/ultra-safe-cell-line/ 07:39 < cluckj> sweet 07:39 -!- jaboja [~jaboja@jaboja.pl] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:40 * nsh blinks 07:40 < nsh> decoupling ourselves from the things we co-evolved with sounds like a terrible idea 07:40 < andytoshi> you want the next year's one: https://diyhpl.us/wiki/transcripts/hgp-write/2017-05-09/ultrasafe-cell-line/ 07:40 < andytoshi> nsh: not things that are directly fucking with our dna 07:40 < nsh> how flawlessly do you think you can define fuckery vs. utility? 07:40 < nsh> i would be reticent 07:41 < kanzure> well let's start with the viruses that kill people.... 07:41 < andytoshi> kanzure: well nsh's point about the stop-codon stuff is that it doesn't distinguish at all between viruses 07:41 < nsh> how flawlessly do you believe your focus on individual organisms represents what's important to population longevity? :) 07:41 < nsh> death is very very very essential to evolution 07:42 < nsh> it's probably the most essential part after life 07:42 < andytoshi> well, i don't think we have any more use for natural evolution in humans 07:42 < nsh> i think the converse :) 07:42 < andytoshi> we've got a small integer number of generations left before we'll be genetically engineering everybody 07:43 < andytoshi> really? 07:43 -!- Gurkenglas__ [~Gurkengla@dslb-094-223-136-111.094.223.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:43 < nsh> we've got a small integer number of generations left before we render ourselves extinct 07:43 < nsh> natural evolution may not have much of a need for us 07:44 < kanzure> huh? 07:44 < kanzure> if you want more random population genetics then you can do that with synthetic biology anyway 07:44 < nsh> cultural competency is lagging behind technological attainment considerably 07:44 < kanzure> 'herd immunity' is not necessarily eliminated by genome engineering kthx 07:44 < nsh> nature, to whatever extent it takes a view, does not take a very bright view of this 07:46 < andytoshi> i think you're being overly pessimistic. we've pretty-much conquered nature in a lot of domains even with crude tools like antibiotics and antiseptics 07:46 < andytoshi> and industrial food production and distribution 07:48 < nsh> it's hard to be optimistic about agricultural/industrial use of antibiotics andytoshi :) 07:48 < nsh> this is not an example of us winning 07:49 < nsh> but it is a great example of how we can never be 'done' with natural evolution as we are constantly driving it 07:50 < nsh> driving it soon towards deplenishment of our current stock of effective antibiotics, but there may be some puncture equilibrium that we get through and find another paradigm of microbiotic total war 07:50 < nsh> *punctured 07:50 < andytoshi> sure, because antibiotics are super crude and directly affects population levels, which is how natural evolution works 07:50 * nsh nods 07:50 < andytoshi> but if we could engineer new cows that just didn't get viruses, that's a whole different story 07:51 < nsh> when you think making a phenomenon disappear is a universal utility that's a good sign you are insufficiently modelling 07:51 < andytoshi> there was a Q&A on the above ultrasafe-cell-line link where somebody asked if the researchers thought the viruses could evolve around this kind of thing 07:51 < nsh> what other processes and dynamics depend on viral infections? 07:51 < nsh> what are the secondary and tertiary stressors of eliminating them in certain populations 07:51 < kanzure> nsh: if the viruses are important then you can make them endogenous 07:51 < nsh> people don't bother with these questions much because people are arrogant 07:51 < andytoshi> and the researches said they thought not because the change is so dramatic that there is no locally-beneficial series of mutations that could get around it 07:51 < kanzure> or if you don't like endogenous viruses then you can remove them http://diyhpl.us/wiki/transcripts/hgp-write/2016-05-10/transplantation/ 07:53 < nsh> what is the complexity of the required knowledge technical knowledge of which compensatory interventions mollify the unexpected consequences of prior interventions is strictly increasing? 07:53 < nsh> what if we end up juggling so many interventions we build ourselves a tower of babel? 07:53 < andytoshi> i have no answer that you wouldn't call arrogance 07:54 < nsh> when you dredge up dynamics of unknown complexity into conscious and deliberate control you should have a good idea of whether you're landing a cod or a whale 07:54 * nsh neither :) 07:54 < andytoshi> :) 07:54 < nsh> we have asteroids at least 07:54 < nsh> a lot of things can be done in controlled experiments if we can render any of those into biomes 07:55 < nsh> but probably not much that translates directly to earth 07:55 < nsh> or maybe most of it does because the important stuff is microbiological 07:56 < nsh> otoh a lot of the important stuff happening on earth currently is memetic 07:56 < nsh> so it's hard to posit that there's a scale regime that the most relevant dynamics for robustness is contained 07:57 < nsh> probably informational, so transcending scale and physical substrate 07:59 -!- poppingtonic [~brian@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:59 < nsh> anyway, i just wanted to argue the fragility for biology because i don't especially feel the urgent fragility of cryptographic ecology which inspired the discussion 07:59 < nsh> because irony is my currency 08:00 < nsh> fragility certainly is scale-dependent :) 08:00 < kanzure> well the target is to reduce mean times between failures and also not overpromise on the actual reliability or capabilities 08:01 < kanzure> uh.. increase. 08:01 < kanzure> whatever 08:02 < TMA> nsh: fragility is complexity-dependent. a homogenous heap of stuff is not fragile 08:02 * nsh nods 08:03 < andytoshi> nsh: so, one big difference between crypto and biology is that you can largely escape the influence of crypto 08:04 < nsh> currently at least 08:04 < andytoshi> i've had security meetings before where myself and some others would leave our phones somewhere, walk several blocks away with no electronics on our person, find somewhere with a lot of ambient noise, and talk 08:04 < andytoshi> maybe buy some drinks with paper cash, etc 08:05 < kanzure> .title http://extropians.weidai.com/extropians.3Q97/4356.html 08:05 < yoleaux> extropians: tunneling through the Singularity 08:05 < andytoshi> well, for a long time you'll be able to go buy some cabin in montana and write letters by post 08:05 < andytoshi> in fact this is getting cheaper, in real dollars :P 08:05 < nsh> your correspondence might be have too high latency to achieve anything relative to the pace of networked events 08:06 < kanzure> high latency should be more encouraged 08:06 < nsh> sure, the deleterious effects of news cycle foreshortening and general info-ADHD have been well-demonstrated 08:06 < nsh> there is a kind of race to the bottom of the instant 08:06 < nsh> and we have suffered for it 08:06 < andytoshi> well my point is that when the crypto bullshit seems too overwhelming and harmful you have the option to check out of it, even if that greatly hinders your productivity or ability to participate in your industry. but it _won't_ hinder your ability to feed or shelter yourself, or to have social contacts 08:07 < andytoshi> you can't do this with bio 08:07 < kanzure> "Singularity tunneling seems to require a technology that can defend its comparatively powerless users against extremely, perhaps even unimaginably, powerful adversaries. The bobble of course is one such technology, but it is not practical. The only realistic technology that I am aware of that is even close to meeting this requirement is cryptography. In particular, given some complexity ... 08:07 < nsh> well, to this effect it's pretty important to preserve a continuum of ways-of-living 08:07 < kanzure> ...theoretic assumptions it is possible to achieve exponential security in certain restricted security models." 08:07 < TMA> andytoshi: you can't with crypto either 08:07 < nsh> so that not everywhere you can be human is dependent on the current fancies and fashions of technology 08:07 < nsh> that's another thing being eroded at present 08:07 < TMA> andytoshi: as long as you interact with people, you are still interacting with crypto -- via a middleman 08:08 < andytoshi> TMA: i'm quite sure that's untrue 08:08 < andytoshi> unless you're saying that encoding thoughts in the form of mouth-sounds is a form of crypto or something 08:09 < TMA> andytoshi: if you interact with a person, that has a bank account/credit card (e.g. to buy some stuff from them) you are indirectly interacting with the crypto employed in that bank 08:10 < andytoshi> okay, well, that's not my problem though because if the bank screws up then they'll correct it (or a court will) 08:10 < andytoshi> and i can avoid it by using physical cash 08:10 < andytoshi> or liquor, or whatever works as currency 08:12 < nsh> +1 liquor 08:14 < TMA> andytoshi: the thing is: even very remote events affect you -- no matter how much you try, you will still be affected by some $event happening far away -- you can only reduce exposure, not eliminate it. if a hypothetical SHTF scenario happens, you might be somewhat sheltered 08:15 < TMA> andytoshi: but even if being forced to pay in liquor instead of greenbacks is the only result, it is still not no result 08:15 < kanzure> alright this has gone off the rails 08:16 < kanzure> TMA: don't break nsh when he is entamating/infoschlepping 08:18 < TMA> I make no attempt to break anybody. I promise to refrain from speaking here for 36000 seconds. 08:18 < kanzure> huh? 08:19 < nsh> refrain ye now :) 08:19 < nsh> *not 08:19 < nsh> is there a general theory of contingency hedging? 08:19 < nsh> beyond economics / investment 08:20 < nsh> i mean, how does a robot hedge for mechanical contingencies if it's ability to model and predict its environment is imperfect 08:20 < nsh> how does a plant hedge for chemical contingencies 08:21 -!- jaboja [~jaboja@jaboja.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:22 < kanzure> robust defense is a much more difficult problem than adversarial spazzing so... i would guess it's unlikely. 08:22 < kanzure> "contingency hedging" isn't that called engineering? 08:23 < kanzure> contigency hedging https://i.imgur.com/38ffOon.jpg 08:33 -!- Gurkenglas__ [~Gurkengla@dslb-094-223-136-111.094.223.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:43 -!- Gurkenglas__ [~Gurkengla@dslb-094-223-136-111.094.223.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:48 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/allgebrah/status/907206719884972034 08:48 < yoleaux> truth be told, once inside cthulhu, you start cheering it on to eat the rest of humanity as well (@allgebrah) 08:49 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/allgebrah/status/907560616277286913 08:49 < yoleaux> There's an optimal speed in space battles and it's not quite c - time dilation needs to be low enough that you can still outthink the enemy (@allgebrah) 08:53 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/allgebrah/status/894554554016071680 08:53 < yoleaux> so basically, software forks are like blockchain forks but you get to doublespend 0days instead (@allgebrah) 09:07 < Urchin> if you're going into space battle on opposite direction orbits, you're already practicing mutual suicide 09:07 -!- Storyteller [~Storytell@unaffiliated/storyteller] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:08 < kanzure> well you don't fly around shooting each other, you just do strategy or whatever 09:09 < Urchin> read some rocketpunk stuff lately 09:10 * Urchin recommends The Human Reach series and Here Be Dragons 09:26 < kanzure> some bluetooth 0days http://go.armis.com/hubfs/BlueBorne%20Technical%20White%20Paper.pdf 09:38 < cluckj> nsh, massive and widespread reproduction 09:40 < cluckj> disseminate backup copies...everywhere 09:40 < cluckj> that strategy has proven fruitful thus far 09:40 < cluckj> and I will see myself out, because of that terrific pun 09:57 -!- Gurkenglas__ is now known as Gurkenglas 11:42 < nsh> -- 11:42 < nsh> A recently published article from the University of Utah presents a new filter developed by Electrical and Computer Engineering professor Rajesh Menon that drastically improves the light transmission efficiency compared to the traditional Bayer CFA. 11:42 < nsh> The filter is only about one micron thick and uses precisely designed ridges etched on one side to bend the light as it passes through creating a series of color patterns or codes. The software then reads the codes to determine what colors they are. 11:42 < nsh> Approximately 25 color codes are created as opposed to three, resulting in far more accurate renditions of color and nearly no noise. 11:42 < nsh> The filter is also cheaper to produce than the current Bayer filter. 11:42 < nsh> -- https://www.cinema5d.com/the-future-of-image-sensor-technology-beyond-the-bayer-cfa/ 11:42 < nsh> -> https://unews.utah.edu/bright-idea-for-lowlight-photography/ 11:43 < nmz787> kanzure did I tell you about this, learned of them at biohacktheplanet https://fourthievesvinegar.org/faq 11:43 < nmz787> they have a retrosynthesis database that they say they're going to open up 11:44 < nmz787> I can't remember if they have any machine learning based on the data... maybe 11:44 < nmz787> they were originally using some pro services for retrosynthesis, but then they were bought by another bigger company and the company wouldn't do biz anymore 11:44 < kanzure> 1EE6 351B F822 0B72 50A3 0099 4F6D 27BB 8655 073A 11:45 < kanzure> https://fourthievesvinegar.org/canary.txt 11:45 < nmz787> word 11:45 < kanzure> http://4thievzv3hh26qeh.onion/ 11:45 < nmz787> main motivated dude has a PhD in Physics 11:46 < nmz787> theoretical 11:46 < kanzure> their downloads don't work https://fourthievesvinegar.org/download 11:46 < nmz787> :( 11:46 < nmz787> email them 11:46 < kanzure> except their epipencil thing but that's the least interesting 11:46 < nmz787> he was very open to collab 11:46 < kanzure> https://fourthievesvinegar.org/files/update.txt 11:47 < nmz787> apparently epipens had a recall because testing single-use devices is hard 11:52 -!- augur [~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:54 < kanzure> yeah i guess we should abduct/recruit them 12:06 -!- bluebear_ [~dluhos@80.95.97.194] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:15 < kanzure> hawkmoth anti-bat ultrasound defenses http://www.pnas.org/content/112/20/6407.full.pdf 12:28 < kanzure> "Researchers investigated US Securities and Exchange Commission filings for 10 separate cancer medications, and found the median cost of drug development was US$648 million – not pocket change, sure, but a fraction of the $2.7 billion figure which pharmaceutical companies use to justify expensive medication pricing." 12:28 < kanzure> "Research and development spending to bring a single cancer drug to market and revenues after approval" http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2653012 12:44 -!- strages [uid11297@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dkvybtirgywbydls] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:57 -!- helleshin [~talinck@cpe-174-97-113-184.cinci.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:00 -!- hehelleshin [~talinck@cpe-174-97-113-184.cinci.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:43 < fltrz> why do seahorses like q-tips? 14:43 < fltrz> https://images0.persgroep.net/rcs/lfeLlal466Rck0aYl_tIGVsUKYA/diocontent/111470892/_fit/1440/1080/?appId=f215d2ebdcdad4aa3dc78550c5970d02&quality=0.90&format=jpg 15:09 -!- poppingtonic [~brian@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:14 -!- poppingtonic [~brian@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:15 -!- poppingtonic [~brian@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:48 -!- poppingtonic [~brian@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:01 < maaku> andytoshi: if you went to kansas I would have thought Lawrence is more your style 16:08 < andytoshi> well, most of kansas city is actually in MO 16:08 < andytoshi> i'll check lawrence out, it was not on my radar, thanks 16:12 -!- Urchin [~urchin@unaffiliated/urchin] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:21 -!- Storyteller [~Storytell@unaffiliated/storyteller] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:27 < andytoshi> maaku: so downtown KCMO from the "river market" to "westport" district has a _lot_ of stuff including weird artsy venues and a UMKC campus and a (crappy) climbing gym, and that span is roughly the maximum distance i can reasonably walk (plus there are several buses). it looks like lawrence is a bit too suburban, like i'd need to buy a car or else be restricted to a couple small neighborhoods. 16:35 -!- traumschule [~traumschu@185.62.205.145] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:49 -!- JayDugger [~jwdugger@47.185.237.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:49 -!- JayDugger [~jwdugger@47.185.237.246] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:52 -!- Storyteller [~Storytell@unaffiliated/storyteller] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:57 -!- augur [~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:04 -!- augur [~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:13 -!- yoleaux [~yoleaux@xn--ht-1ia18f.nonceword.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:35 -!- augur 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