--- Log opened Thu Oct 05 00:00:37 2017
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07:32 < kanzure> .wik in silico PCR
07:32 < yoleaux> "In silico PCR refers to computational tools used to calculate theoretical polymerase chain reaction (PCR) results using a given set of primers (probes) to amplify DNA sequences from a sequenced genome or transcriptome." — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_silico_PCR
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07:54 < kanzure> are there any aptamers that have been shown to behave like primers for polymerase?
07:56 < kanzure> "Inhibition of multiple thermostable DNA polymerases by a heterodimeric aptamer" http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022283697911657
07:56 < kanzure> there is a thing called "aptamer-primed polymerase". hmm.
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07:57 < kanzure> "Electrochemical immunosensor of platelet-derived growth factor with aptamer-primed polymerase amplification" http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0003269708004648
07:58 < kanzure> .wik rolling circle amplification
07:58 < yoleaux> "Rolling circle replication describes a process of unidirectional nucleic acid replication that can rapidly synthesize multiple copies of circular molecules of DNA or RNA, such as plasmids, the genomes of bacteriophages, and the circular RNA genome of viroids. Some eukaryotic viruses also replicate their DNA via the rolling circle mechanism." — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolling_circle_amplification
07:58 < kanzure> "Aptamer-based sandwich-type biosensors" https://jbioleng.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13036-017-0054-7
07:59 < kanzure> "Aptamer nanostructures as signaling molecular switches in electrochemical biosensing" https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Tatsuro_Goda/publication/271443248_Aptamer_Nanostructures_as_Signaling_Molecular_Switches_in_Electrochemical_Biosensing/links/54c7b88d0cf238bb7d0b186c.pdf
08:00 < kanzure> isn't there a primerless PCR somewhere
08:23 < kanzure> need a polymerase that can take a 'statistical primer template' instead of an actual primer...
08:25 < kanzure> .. basis of that concept is the following: no way to design/build an error correction enzyme (yet) that can decode a lossly-encoded dna molecule into a decoded biologically-relevant (executable) dna molecule.   however, you could potentially have recombinases/cas9/polymerase/targeting-stuff that can locate regions of dna based on a lossy template, which is in fact one of the concerns that was ...
08:25 < kanzure> ...recently raised about cas9 targeting fidelity ("but muh errors!!!").   this might serve as a sufficient alternative to molecular decoding of error correction codes..
08:30 < kanzure> for example: a "lossy template" sgRNA for cas9/dCas9, where the template is like 80 bp but really intends to target only an 8 bp region encoded by a lossy information encoding scheme used in those 80 bp, ... apply this to various dna editing proteins; should be able to convert from "lossy template" to exact selections from a library of parts.
08:31 < kanzure> ((requires handwavy protein engineering/evolution of dCas9 to achieve that.))
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09:16 < kanzure> maybe decoding can be done with heath's dna strand displacement magic
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09:55 < akashkhosla> hello
09:55 < akashkhosla> exit
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10:09 < kanzure> igem jamboree is 5 weeks away. mightsuggest traveling to that.
10:09 < kanzure> november 9-13 boston
10:09 < kanzure> list of igem 2017 abstracts (posters? i dunno): http://2017.igem.org/Giant_Jamboree/Program/Abstracts
10:11 < kanzure> "directed in vivo evolution via reverse transcription" http://2017.igem.org/Team:BOKU-Vienna/Description
10:11 < kanzure> "In vivo continuous directed evolution offers significant advantages over classic in vitro methods as it drastically reduces the amount of time and actual lab work that needs to be invested. Most current approaches, however, are based on globally enhanced mutagenesis rates eventually leading to unwanted off-target mutations that interfere with the experiment. Here, we present the concept of a ...
10:11 < kanzure> ...new continuous in vivo evolution strategy that allows complete spatial control of mutagenesis by cyclically using an RNA intermediate which finally replaces the original DNA cargo at the respective locus in the genome after it has been reverse-transcribed in an error prone way."
10:11 < kanzure> yeast surface display system http://2017.igem.org/Team:BNU-China
10:12 < kanzure> some microfluidics stuff http://2017.igem.org/Team:BostonU_HW
10:14 < kanzure> blah not easy to tell when to start processing this information. because if i'm wrong then i have to do this stupid diff against "what information was available vs what information is available now" (like if not all teams have finished their descriptions).
10:15 < darsie> someone in ##astronomy is looking for information for a scifi story about a cryopreserved human accidently staying cold till the 'end of the universe'. Mind if I mention your channel there?
10:16 < darsie> You all seem so focused and serious and it might get some crackpots here.
10:16 < kanzure> juul: are the igem project wikis probably finished by now? or what about this list, is this comprehensive right now? http://2017.igem.org/Giant_Jamboree/Program/Abstracts
10:16 < kanzure> darsie: go ahead and mention. i'll nuke any crackpots with my death ray.
10:16 < darsie> ok :)
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11:18 < kanzure> .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJ-tTN3PlAY
11:18 < yoleaux> Ions in electric field - YouTube
11:19 < JayDugger> Let me save you the time for that SF question. http://bfy.tw/EJdZ
11:19 < JayDugger> And the story has been written. Three times.
11:20 < kanzure> .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmYastJQ8wU
11:20 < yoleaux> Microfluidic particle separation in an electric field with conductive pillars - YouTube
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11:26 < nmz787> haha, chemtoddler
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11:46 < juul> kanzure: i don't know. biobricks and igem are separate organizations and i'm not involved in any igem stuff this year. i will ask around but don't they list the official wiki freeze date?
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11:50 < kanzure> thanks
11:50 < kanzure> http://2017.igem.org/Calendar
11:50 < kanzure> "Your team project title and abstract must be finalized by September 1, 11:59PM EDT. "
11:50 < kanzure> "The Wiki Freeze for the 2017 Giant Jamboree is on November 1, 11:59PM EDT. "
11:51 < kanzure> hmm abstract might be enough... not sure.
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12:05 < kanzure> yeah i guess i'll go with http://2017.igem.org/Giant_Jamboree/Program/Abstracts
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12:32 < maaku> potentially new superpower: put a 192kHz mic in a hearing aid, or AirBud or whatever, and compress sounds outside the range of human hearing into those audible to the ear
12:33 < maaku> doing so without overly distoring human speech probably requires pairing with a phone to do more complicated analysis
12:35 < kanzure> "converts infrasound into audible cat meows/chirps"
12:36 < kanzure> er, ultrasound
12:41 < WeirdTolkienishF> my hearing aids do that sorta
12:47 < maaku> WeirdTolkienishF: yes, that's my understanding.
12:47 < maaku> you could even market this as a hearing aid -- ADA compatible AirBuds or whatnot
12:48 < maaku> that also have a poweruser mode to open up a broader range of frequencies
12:48 < JayDugger> They'd sell better with an "discreetly and deniably ignore spouse" button.
12:48 < WeirdTolkienishF> newer models of hearing aids will take a frequency you don't hear good in and convert to another one
12:49 < maaku> beyond access to higher frequencies, it could also signal analysis and filter out noise while boosting the volume of quiet signals
12:49 < maaku> JayDugger: hah!
12:49 < WeirdTolkienishF> which might have some odd effect like making female voices real low
12:50 < WeirdTolkienishF> it was my hearing aids and cpap that made me interesting in transhumanism :D
12:50 < maaku> WeirdTolkienishF: you're at the cyborg frontier, a hero to us all
12:50 < JayDugger> Does there exist much of a build your own hearing aid community?
12:51 < WeirdTolkienishF> mostly old folks
12:51 < WeirdTolkienishF> :D
12:51 < WeirdTolkienishF> medical futurism is a site i like
12:51 < WeirdTolkienishF> http://medicalfuturist.com/
12:52 < JayDugger> Hmm.
12:52 < JayDugger> I'll suggest this to my Dad when I next talk with him.
12:52 < JayDugger> Thank you for the link.
12:52 < maaku> I imagine hearing aid users are more concerned about battery life though. The things I'm imagining wouldn't last more than a few hours at best. AirPods have 2hrs "talk time" and that's with a heavily compressed bidi BT stream.
12:53 < maaku> WeirdTolkienishF: thanks for the link
12:53 < JayDugger> I don't know. I'd guess comfort first, battery life second, and cost somewhere in the top three.
12:53 < JayDugger> Guesses, though.
12:54 < JayDugger> And size, too. I have met people too vain to wear hearing aids.
12:54 < JayDugger> I sympathize, being vain about other things myself.
12:55 < WeirdTolkienishF> most people don't notice mine
12:55 < maaku> JayDugger: well this thought process started for me in thinking that someon too vian to wear a hearing aid (a reasonable concern imho), would look hip and fashionable sporting AirPods
12:55 < WeirdTolkienishF> they are clear except hte BTE part, which is tiny
12:56 < WeirdTolkienishF> the earpieces themselves are clear, and custom molded for comfort
12:57 < JayDugger> Yeah, you make a good point, maaku. Vanity goes both ways, sure.
12:57 < JayDugger> Hm. I'll have to think about this.
13:04 < maaku> Well, I thought I'd stumbled on a nice ADA app to make and sell to an easy market. But the poor battery life of fashionable in-ear bluetooth buds makes it a non-starter for something actually required for everyday, all-day use
13:05 < maaku> But I would like the supercharged version for limited usage now and then. Diagnosing my car engine, listening to the birds (and bugs!) on a hike, hearing all sorts of electrical whines, etc.
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13:08 < WeirdTolkienishF> i even inquired about cochlear implants but the audiologist said they werne't appropriate for me
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13:11 < nmz787> WeirdTolkienishF: any recommendations for my dad who is relatively poor but has hearing issues? I haven't been able to convince him to request assistance from i.e. starkeyfoundation.org
13:11 < WeirdTolkienishF> nmz787, you can get cheaper professional hearing aids at costco in the us
13:11 < WeirdTolkienishF> sub $1000
13:12 < nmz787> WeirdTolkienishF: as JayDugger mentioned re: vanity... my dad is a musician and feels embarrased to wear a hearing aid in front of those sort of friends
13:12 < WeirdTolkienishF> nmz787, most people don't notice mine, even barbers
13:13 < nmz787> WeirdTolkienishF: I am in U.S. and could buy such an item for him... but it seems like there are so many factors, styles, etc... that realistically he probably needs to try several styles/models/manufacturers
13:13 < WeirdTolkienishF> nmz787, you can't buy them, you need to take a test to find the specific frequencies he doesn't hear at
13:13 < WeirdTolkienishF> and in costco they let you try some out
13:15 < WeirdTolkienishF> in the hearing aid forum it was definitely the most popular method
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13:16 < nmz787> hmm, ok, I don't live in the same state as he does... will suggest it to him though
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13:16 < nmz787> I think the range/freq shifting and the equalizer adjustment features are probably the most interesting
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13:18 < WeirdTolkienishF> they have other settings too, speech in noise is probably the most useful to me
13:20 < maaku> when combined with eye-tracking glasses you can also do cool things like islate conversations in a crowd based on attention
13:22 < kanzure> you want replayable sound sphere recording from multiple microphones in an environment
13:23 < kanzure> on a totally different subject, i'm sort of annoyed about the rate of conferences that are being produced
13:23 < kanzure> there needs to be an aggregation service (even if it's not free) that makes deals with each conference for the video content + metadata for each video (title, description, etc)
13:23 < kanzure> and then do simple interface to watch recent scientific content
13:25 < kanzure> rough estimate, in the last month there have been 5 conferences mentioned in here that were going on simultaneously or whatever-- no way to physically go to all of them, and not all of them are posting videos for public consumption.
13:25 < kanzure> say 20 talks per conference, 1 hour/talk, that's 100 hours that could be distributed more evenly instead of in spikes
13:26 < kanzure> heath: go do this and hook it up to stripe.. you'll be done in 8 hours and you will figure out your next project.
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13:30 < kanzure> videos can be embedded youtube.. stripe is to pay for the scheduling stuff.
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14:24 < kanzure> hah " http://51nb.com/ (chinese thinkpad forum) has been doing better work with less resources by putting updated motherboards into classic thinkpad chassis. (see X62 for example)"
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16:07 < JayDugger> kanzure, didn't IT Conversations used to aggregate conference records, but they stopped five years past.
16:08 < kanzure> "conference records"?
16:09 < JayDugger> Sorry, "conference recordings"
16:09 < JayDugger> https://web.archive.org/web/20130729200341id_/http://itc.conversationsnetwork.org/
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16:17 < kanzure> .g honduran black matrix opal
16:17 < yoleaux> http://ipv6.google.com/sorry/index?continue=http://www.google.com/search%3F%26q%3Dhonduran%2520black%2520matrix%2520opal%26btnI%3D&q=EhAqAQT4AgFyMAAAAAAACGrnGJj72s4FIhkA8aeDS80oXsGedPoyBrjWZvDWvtCu9DEZMgFy
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16:17 < kanzure> er... alright.
16:18 < kanzure> JayDugger: what happened?
16:34 < JayDugger> I don't know why IT Conversations stopped.
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17:25 < kanzure> "DIY human CRISPR gene therapy" by josiah zayner https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/diybio/3r1rloT5Yug
17:26 < kanzure> https://www.google.com/url?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Fjosiah.zayner%2Fvideos%2F10102950199937847%2F&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNGuO7lJ8FhSrNIDP8lBQHphc-8x-A
17:26 < kanzure> https://www.facebook.com/josiah.zayner/videos/10102950199937847/
17:26 < kanzure> http://piratepad.be/p/SBB17-zayner
17:33 < kanzure> “If you look at Step 3 - which is, uh, you know, I like steps and lists, they are awesome - uhm, there are actually websites out there that have this infrastructure completely built. You can go in, type in the name of a gene. Not even the name, you could type in the name you think a gene should be named, and what it will do is predict the best guide RNAs, the best 20 bases, to use, so that ...
17:33 < kanzure> ...Cas9 enzyme can cut in your genome in this exact place."
17:33 < kanzure> "Literally, you don’t have to do anything, right? You have to go in, type in the name of a gene, and press enter, and you could modify yourself with CRISPR. Right? That’s what this DNA basically is. This DNA, if you think about, took me about 5 minutes to make. Actually, it happened so fast, I had to go back and verify it a couple of times. I didn’t think I could create DNA that could ...
17:33 < kanzure> ...modify my own genetics with CRISPR in 5 minutes. Now, if that doesn’t blow your mind, I, I really don’t know what does. And, the next question comes down to, 'What’s holding us back; what’s stopping us?' And I dunno, to me, I, I don’t really know what’s stopping us, you know? I, I think about it a lot, because, I have this really, you know, bad snaggle-tooth, and I think like what ...
17:33 < kanzure> ...happens if I could change that?"
17:33 < kanzure> "No but if you think about, people are born with things that they have no decision over. And then everybody else says, 'Oh, no, fuck you, I'm athletic and 6 feet tall and, you know, good looking, and you just, you just, the genetic lottery - you lost. That's the truth. You lost the genetic lottery and you have to suffer through it.' How does it make sense?"
17:40 < kanzure> http://the-odin.com/diyhumancrispr
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18:04 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=f4d1074f Bryan Bishop: transcript: DIY human gene therapy >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/diy-human-gene-therapy-with-crispr/
18:05 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=dd9f41f5 Bryan Bishop: oops wrong path >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/diy-human-gene-therapy-with-crispr/
18:06 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=e8d1404c Bryan Bishop: funding line >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/diy-human-gene-therapy-with-crispr/
18:10 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/wiki/transcripts/diy-human-gene-therapy-with-crispr/
18:10 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/kanzure/status/916107709833011201
18:10 < yoleaux> Transcript: DIY human gene therapy http://diyhpl.us/wiki/transcripts/diy-human-gene-therapy-with-crispr/ @4LOVofScience Have DIY project & want funding? Let me know. (@kanzure)
18:12 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=849f8966 Bryan Bishop: add tweeter link >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/diy-human-gene-therapy-with-crispr/
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18:30 < kanzure> 18:25 < nshepperd> wouldn't it take several (like, 10?) generations for your gene drive to sucessfully wipe anyone out
18:31 < kanzure> 18:26 < nshepperd> by which time genetic technology would have advanced enough to make such a thing obsolete
18:31 < kanzure> 18:30 < kanzure> nshepperd: i think the people who believe that gene drives will cause genocide of a human population are the same people who think that some human populations are too stupid to understand that gene drives are defeatable or worth defeating
18:31 < kanzure> 18:31 < Douhet> kanzure, how do you detect gene drive?
18:31 < kanzure> 18:31 <@gwern> kanzure: that sounds about right, actually...
18:33 < kanzure> 18:32 < kanzure> Douhet: you compare your genome and your partner's genome against your children's genome. if there's a gene drive in the diff then you know something is really going wrong.
18:33 < kanzure> 18:32 < Douhet> and that's practical... how?
18:33 < kanzure> 18:33 < kanzure> Douhet: there are dna sequencers in usb sticks. you can buy these. is that a serious question?
18:34 < kanzure> 18:33 < Douhet> no, I mean, in the real world. Not this ivory tower fantasy land you're living in.
18:34 < kanzure> 18:33 < kanzure> the ivory tower fantasy land with working usb ports and good standards that don't change to USB-(letter of alphabet you don't have)? right.
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18:38 < nmz787> kanzure: just send him the buy it now link
18:38 < nmz787> s/him/them/
18:38 < kanzure> do we have that
18:39 < nmz787> https://store.nanoporetech.com/minion/sets/?___SID=U
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18:42 < kanzure> 18:41 <@gwern> (I don't think any but the smallest or most irrational groups would go extinct from gene drive for the reasons kanzure gives, but it does seem like, particularly in the third world, this could result in meaningful population shrinkages and expansion by rival populations)
18:42 < kanzure> 18:41 < kanzure> gwern: so, the other thing to think about is that, while there might be 'gene drives' or whatever, there will also be blue teams that deploy gene therapy for defensive reasons
18:42 < kanzure> 18:41 < kanzure> gwern: we're not all red team
18:50 < kanzure> 18:43 <@gwern> quanticle: well, being outbred/conquered and replaced by a rival population happens all the time. if we've learned anything from the endless ancient genome and population genetics research, it's that
18:52 < kanzure> https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/05/health/gene-therapy-brain-disease.html
19:00 < kanzure> 18:53 < Douhet> is there an incentive for active blue teams without active read teams? It's hard to make that case. Really hard.
19:00 < kanzure> 18:53 < Douhet> red*
19:00 < kanzure> 19:00 < kanzure> Douhet: doctors. the red team is mother nature.
19:02 < kanzure> http://www.nanalyze.com/2017/04/what-is-telomere-what-telomeres-do/ "The thing is though, if you want to lengthen your telomeres, you can go use the TA-65 supplement which has been shown in a published human study to lengthen telomeres for over a period of 12 months. The study in question was conducted with 97 men and women in a controlled environment, not just with one person. Here’s that ...
19:02 < kanzure> ...supplement, and it’s being sold by a company called T.A. Sciences."
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19:08 < kanzure> "Features of genomic organization in a nucleotide-resolution molecular model of the Escherichia coli chromosome" https://academic.oup.com/nar/article/3875533/Features-of-genomic-organization-in-a-nucleotide https://twitter.com/4LOVofScience/status/878220457157066753
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19:13 < nmz787> dodm
19:13 < nmz787> didn't I reply to that tweet?
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19:17 < kanzure> which one
19:17 < kanzure> maybe he blocked you
19:18 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/4LOVofScience/status/914888527997014016
19:18 < yoleaux> A DIY Guide to Creating a Peptide Immunotherapy #Cancer Vaccine http://www.ifyoudontknownowyaknow.com/2017/10/diy-guide-to-creating-peptide.html #BeYourOwnHope #BiohackThePlanet (@4LOVofScience)
19:19 < kanzure> .title http://www.ifyoudontknownowyaknow.com/2017/10/diy-guide-to-creating-peptide.html
19:19 < yoleaux> Science, Art, Beauty: DIY Guide to Creating a Peptide Immunotherapy Cancer Vaccine
19:19 < kanzure> .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCzZvb6wqi8
19:19 < yoleaux> Josiah Zayner How to Genetically Engineer a Human in Your Garage Biohack the Planet 2017 - YouTube
19:20 < nmz787> the last one, about the e.coli model
19:20 < nmz787> I don't think he would have blocked me
19:20 < nmz787> but... maybe
19:20 < nmz787> I can't tell, I think twitter isn't working on this machine as I'm not logged in
19:20 < nmz787> lemme check my phone
19:26 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/andrewhessel/status/916115560676466688
19:26 < yoleaux> @4LOVofScience says "This is the first time in human history, right, that we are no longer slaves to our genomes." #DIYhCRISPR (@andrewhessel)
19:28 < nmz787> oh, I must have replied on facebook when he cross-posted
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19:45 < nmz787> http://www.the-odin.com/human-myostatin-knock-out-targeting-crispr-cas9-plasmid/   "You can find a Human Myostatin targetting knock-out CRISPR plasmid using the gRNA above in our store. It is not injectable and not meant for human use
19:45 < nmz787> "
19:54 < nmz787> new idea, instead of baby crib made of LCD/LED panels... just get a VR headset that would fit it
19:54 < nmz787> though weak neck muscles would mean it'd have to be incredibly light
20:09 < kanzure> wait why is not injectable
20:09 < kanzure> why did he do this
20:11 < kanzure> you're breaking my heart
20:14 < nmz787> most likely a disclaimer for his sales site
20:14 < nmz787> my guess
20:15 < nmz787> I wonder if a suppository of that plasmid, would help against incontinence in elderly people
20:16 < nmz787> like, would it diffuse into the sphincter muscles?
20:16 < nmz787> maybe I should post that to DIYbio in response to Mac's question "what do you think"
20:16 < nmz787> :P
20:16 < kanzure> i'm not sure sphincter muscles are the cause of elderly incontinence
20:16 < kanzure> mac is trying to be the morality police; he's a total idiot.
20:16 < nmz787> haha
20:17 < nmz787> I want to post "I am already looking for ways to make my unborn children GMOs" but wasn't sure if I am getting into reputation tarnishing territory
20:17 < nmz787> hah
20:18 < nmz787> at least here my name is indirectly linked
20:18 < kanzure> it's a good shitpost, but you could do better
20:18 < nmz787> though anyone who is anybody should be able to link it up no problem
20:19 < kanzure> like: "He seems a little behind the time. I have parents asking me about GMOing their unborn children all the time. I thought this place was supposed to be ahead of the curve?"
20:19 < kanzure> (okay that's not a good shitpost either.)
20:20 < kanzure> thanks for the nanopore sequencer link btw
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20:28 < nmz787> the worst part about GMO babies, is the iteration time and potential for the woman to feel pretty awful for months and months (ex: morning sickness)
20:29 < nmz787> also if you mess up and it isn't lethal, then you have a moral/ethical dillema
20:29 < kanzure> well,
20:29 < kanzure> let's imagine a parallel reality where scientists were interested in studying positive things
20:29 < kanzure> there's probably some genetics of fetuses that cause a more pleasant pregnancy
20:29 < nmz787> I mean, I guess the parents could always just give such babies up for adoption
20:30 < kanzure> designer baby -> painless pregnancies -> such wow
20:30 < nmz787> there are reports of some women not even getting sick at all
20:31 < nmz787> not sure they tested having many men as partners
20:31 < kanzure> morning sickness isn't only pregnancy related ailment but sure that's a good start
20:31 < nmz787> (to get a variety of fetal genetics, that might interact differently)
20:32 < kanzure> "Nausea and vomiting during pregnancy is highly heritable" https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Lucia_Colodro_Conde2/publication/291419723_Nausea_and_Vomiting_During_Pregnancy_is_Highly_Heritable/links/56b0501808ae9c1968b4982f.pdf (2016)
20:33 < kanzure> "A recent systematic review highlights that mild/moderate Nausea and vomiting during pregnancy (NVP) is associated with favourable fetal outcome in terms of decreased risk of miscarriages, congenital malformations, prematurity and developmental achievements."
20:33 < kanzure> from https://academic.oup.com/ije/article/46/2/e17/2617151/Cohort-Profile-Nausea-and-vomiting-during
20:34 < kanzure> "Genetic variants influencing the human chorionic gonadotrophin hormone, serotonin and autoimmune functioning have been proposed as candidates for NVP.12,13"
20:34 < kanzure> "It has also been proposed that there is a higher frequency of severe NVP in patients with disorders in taste sensation, in the glycoprotein hormone receptor or in fatty acid transport.14–18"
20:34 < nmz787> "NVP may have evolved, along with food aversions, to motivate women to avoid exposure to diseases and other toxins when they are immunosuppressed and when the fetus is at a critical stage of development (McKerracher et al. 2015)."
20:34 < kanzure> [12] Goecke TW, Ekici AB, Niesler Bet al.  . Two naturally occurring variants of the serotonin receptor gene HTR3C are associated with nausea in pregnancy. Acta Obstet Gynecol Scand  2010;89:7–14.
20:34 < kanzure> [13] Lehmann AS, Renbarger JL, McCormick CL, Topletz AR, Rouse C, Haas DM. Pharmacogenetic predictors of nausea and vomiting of pregnancy severity and response to antiemetic therapy: a pilot study. BMC Pregnancy Childbirth  2013;13:132.
20:35 < kanzure> [14] Outlaw WM, Ibdah JA. Impaired fatty acid oxidation as a cause of liver disease associated with hyperemesis gravidarum. Med Hypotheses  2005;65:1150–53.
20:35 < kanzure> [15] Rodien P, Bremont C, Sanson MLet al.  . Familial gestational hyperthyroidism caused by a mutant thyrotropin receptor hypersensitive to human chorionic gonadotropin. N Engl J Med  1998;339:1823–26.
20:35 < kanzure> [16] Rodien P, Jordan N, Lefevre Aet al.  . Abnormal stimulation of the thyrotrophin receptor during gestation. Hum Reprod Update  2004;10:95–105.
20:35 < kanzure> [17] Bartoshuk LM, Duffy VB, Reed D, Williams A. Supertasting, earaches and head injury: genetics and pathology alter our taste worlds. Neurosci Biobehav Rev  1996;20:79–87.
20:35 < kanzure> [18] Sipiora ML, Murtaugh MA, Gregoire MB, Duffy VB. Bitter taste perception and severe vomiting in pregnancy. Physiol Behav  2000;69:259–67.
20:36 < kanzure> "Genetic analysis of hyperemesis gravidarum reveals association with intracellular calcium release channel (RYR2)" http://www.helpher.org/HER-Research/downloads/2016%20Fejzo%20Genetic%20analysis%20of%20hyperemesis%20gravidarum%20reveals%20association%20with%20intracellular%20calcium%20release%20channel%20RYR2.pdf
20:37 < nmz787> "NVP is a condition linked to the mother, and is not affected by a change of partner (Einarson et al. 2007)."
20:37 < nmz787> huh, well there goes my last idea
20:38 < kanzure> yeah but at least someone checked
20:38 < kanzure> anyway, you can make that true through some wacky infectious gene therapy + spermatogenesis scheme
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20:42 < nmz787> I have a feeling some neaderthal vs someone of the same ethnicity would have significantly different immunogenic response
20:42 < nmz787> like, the fetus would be quite different than the mother, so wouldn't it make sense that she'd freak out a bit more
20:47 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=fc345e33 Bryan Bishop: reduced morning sickness during pregnancy >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/genetic-modifications/
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20:54 < nmz787> well, the whole food-aversion thing because said foods might have negative implications for a developing fetus makes sense, I mean, you want some sort of feedback or warning
20:55 < nmz787> with nutrition being as complex and personal as it is... I'm not sure what a better signal would be
20:56 < nmz787> I guess severe aversion != being sick
20:57 < kanzure> you can induce severe aversion through other drugs or whatever, it doesn't matter.
21:00 < nmz787> what do you mean?
21:01 < nmz787> specifically re: other drugs
21:01 < kanzure> surely there's something
21:01 < kanzure> amphetamines at least....
21:01 < nmz787> hrmm, you mean like how when I used to take amphets, I would be averse to eating?
21:03 < kanzure> i think we should look at the genetics of those people who have the unnoticed pregnancies
21:03 < nmz787> was the 'large chunks of food-DNA make it into the bloodstream' paper posted in here recently?
21:04 < nmz787> yeah, I saw/read something recently about some woman who claim she didn't know she was pregnant, and was caught at the McDonalds she worked at, trying to flush a baby down the toilet (which she delivered in the restroom stall)
21:05 < nmz787> http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/09/18/bathroom-birth-was-second-for-mcdonalds-worker-accused-of-trying-to-flush-baby/
21:07 < kanzure> .wik cryptic pregnancy
21:07 < yoleaux> "A "Cryptic Pregnancy" is a pregnancy where there is little or no detectable hCG in the mother's system, due to a hormonal imbalance in the mother. The fetus may go undetected by mother and doctors, until delivery." — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptic_pregnancy
21:07 < kanzure> oh "typical pregnancy symptoms"
21:07 < kanzure> wtf.
21:08 < kanzure> "It is estimated that "1 in 450 doesn't know her [pregnancy] status until week 20 or later (more than halfway through the pregnancy), and 1 in 2,500 is oblivious until she actually goes into labor."[1]"
21:09 < night> yep
21:09 < nmz787> maybe the typical symtoms are for the "latter group"
21:09 < night> recently heard an anecdote about a larger women going to the doctor for abdominal pain and delivering right in the checkup room
21:10 < kanzure> i'm skeptical now-- if typical pregnancy systems are a part of this, then it sounds like people are just mistaking themselves as "not pregnancy" for stupid reasons like "oh i still have periods"
21:11 < nmz787> s/systems/symptoms/ ??
21:15 < kanzure> symptoms
21:16 < nmz787> idk, seems like you'd have to be pretty clearly skipping the morning sickness as well
21:20 < nmz787> did anyone here ever get this back in the 90s? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCfHu_xdGDA
21:20 < nmz787> .title
21:20 < yoleaux> Launch CD-Rom Magazine Ad from 1997 - YouTube
21:21 < nmz787> I remember having at least one CDROM, apparently from 1997... it had the band "Matchbox 20" and their song "real world" on it
21:25 < nmz787> I think it had a demo game of Star Wars or something
21:30 < nmz787> ah, yes , Jedi Knight: https://launchcdromnotes.files.wordpress.com/2015/10/launch-16.jpg
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