--- Log opened Mon Oct 23 00:00:54 2017 00:17 -!- hehelleshin [~talinck@cpe-174-97-113-184.cinci.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:19 -!- helleshin [~talinck@cpe-174-97-113-184.cinci.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:26 -!- poppingtonic [~brian@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:29 -!- delinquentme [~delinquen@108-235-112-153.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:30 -!- poppingtonic [~brian@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:56 -!- rpifan [~rpifan@207-244-191-189-dhcp.mia.fl.atlanticbb.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:23 -!- Gurkenglas [~Gurkengla@dslb-094-223-135-191.094.223.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:30 -!- Gurkenglas [~Gurkengla@dslb-094-223-135-191.094.223.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:42 -!- esmerelda [~mabel@174-24-250-207.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:43 -!- delinquentme [~delinquen@108-235-112-153.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:51 -!- CRM114 [~urchin@unaffiliated/urchin] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:32 -!- RebelCoder [~Yuriy@95.143.115.254] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:37 -!- Qfwfq [Qfwfq@gateway/shell/suchznc/x-nanaopluhhhhbsoy] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:05 -!- poppingtonic [~brian@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:22 -!- poppingtonic [~brian@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:36 -!- Qfwfq [Qfwfq@gateway/shell/suchznc/x-oosbllraovfqyvye] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:36 -!- Qfwfq [Qfwfq@gateway/shell/suchznc/x-oosbllraovfqyvye] has quit [Changing host] 03:36 -!- Qfwfq [Qfwfq@unaffiliated/washirving] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:36 -!- Qfwfq [Qfwfq@unaffiliated/washirving] has quit [Changing host] 03:36 -!- Qfwfq [Qfwfq@gateway/shell/suchznc/x-oosbllraovfqyvye] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:49 -!- c0rw1n_ [~c0rw1n@cpc109847-bagu17-2-0-cust223.1-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:54 < kanzure> ebowden: no i told you that you should go find those papers 04:02 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/DNA/twist-bioscience-dna-data-storage-whitepaper.pdf 04:05 < kanzure> (this was from http://www2.twistbioscience.com/dna-based_data_storage_white_paper ) 04:06 < kanzure> "Storage media overview: historic perspectives" http://storageconference.us/2016/Slides/BobFontana.pdf 04:31 -!- poppingtonic [~brian@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:33 -!- poppingtonic [~brian@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:43 < ebowden> kanzure, you think it's practical to replace all earth's plants? 04:46 < ebowden> (With ones that have more efficient photosystems.) 05:07 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@2001:8003:1074:bc00:ed1d:3cd4:1d1:721c] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:07 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@2001:8003:1074:bc00:6515:c434:8bc7:dfeb] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:15 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@2001:8003:1074:bc00:6515:c434:8bc7:dfeb] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:29 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@2001:8003:1074:bc00:d1df:4722:bc30:df9d] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:51 -!- poppingtonic [~brian@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:42 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@2001:8003:1074:bc00:d1df:4722:bc30:df9d] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:56 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@110.141.11.39] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:41 -!- Gurkenglas [~Gurkengla@dslb-094-223-135-191.094.223.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:48 < jrayhawk> that's actually a good question: is there a downside to replacing C3 photosynthesis with C4 photosynthesis? 07:59 < kanzure> for practicality, you can get a pretty big chunk of the plant population. maybe not all of them. 08:16 < kanzure> at least all the agriculture. 08:20 -!- mindsForge [~nak@174-26-21-211.phnx.qwest.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:21 -!- helleshin [~talinck@cpe-174-97-113-184.cinci.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:23 -!- hehelleshin [~talinck@cpe-174-97-113-184.cinci.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:29 < kanzure> https://medium.com/@SassanoM/lets-enhance-how-we-found-rogerkver-s-1000-wallet-obfuscated-private-key-8514e74a5433 08:42 -!- WeirdTolkienishF [~Weird@unaffiliated/weirdtolkienishf] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:52 < kanzure> https://blog.acolyer.org/2017/10/23/why-neurons-have-thousands-of-synapses-a-theory-of-sequence-memory-in-neocortex/ 08:57 -!- rpifan [~rpifan@207-244-191-189-dhcp.mia.fl.atlanticbb.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:01 -!- hehelleshin [~talinck@cpe-174-97-113-184.cinci.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:02 -!- helleshin [~talinck@cpe-174-97-113-184.cinci.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:14 -!- sachy [~sachy@nat.brmlab.cz] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:18 -!- night [~Adifex@unaffiliated/adifex] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:21 -!- night [~Adifex@unaffiliated/adifex] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:30 < kanzure> "Turning corners into cameras: Principles and methods" http://people.csail.mit.edu/klbouman/pw/papers_and_presentations/cornercam_iccv2017.pdf 09:31 -!- night [~Adifex@unaffiliated/adifex] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:33 -!- night [~Adifex@unaffiliated/adifex] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:47 -!- Gurkenglas [~Gurkengla@dslb-094-223-135-191.094.223.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:22 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/aeiousomething] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:43 -!- preview [~quassel@2407:7000:842d:4000::3] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:46 -!- preview [~quassel@2407:7000:842d:4000::3] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:58 -!- rpifan [~rpifan@207-244-191-189-dhcp.mia.fl.atlanticbb.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:12 -!- delinquentme [~delinquen@108-235-112-153.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:19 < kanzure> https://www.arxiv-vanity.com/ https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15534580 11:19 < kanzure> (browser rendering stuff) 11:23 -!- preview [~quassel@2407:7000:842d:4000::3] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:26 -!- preview [~quassel@2407:7000:842d:4000::3] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:32 -!- Gurkenglas [~Gurkengla@dslb-094-223-135-191.094.223.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:33 -!- franksteine [8068adeb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.128.104.173.235] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:39 -!- helleshin [~talinck@cpe-174-97-113-184.cinci.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:42 -!- hehelleshin [~talinck@cpe-174-97-113-184.cinci.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:57 -!- delinquentme [~delinquen@107-138-44-219.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:28 -!- augur [~augur@2600:380:8441:70ca:7dd3:d068:cf62:349b] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:42 -!- CRM114 [~urchin@unaffiliated/urchin] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:01 -!- jtimon [~quassel@164.31.134.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:03 < fltrz> regarding replacing plant genetics for more efficient photosynthesis, how much energy is wasted when there is 'too much' light? perhaps its easier to use solar panels to provide light for 2 levels of plants and/or buffer the solar energy and spread it out more evenly during the day? 14:08 < fltrz> the corner camera is cool 14:13 < kanzure> "easier" as in, easier to launch giant filters into space? i don't think so-- genetics is easier at this point. 14:13 -!- TinKode [~TinKode@unaffiliated/tinkode] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:33 < ebowden> kanzure, you know how there are very few noot vendors that properly test their products? 14:40 -!- c0rw1n_ [~c0rw1n@cpc109847-bagu17-2-0-cust223.1-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:41 < kanzure> "Blender is used by NASA for publicly available 3D models. Many 3D models on NASA's 3D resources page are in a native .blend format.[62]" 14:41 -!- c0rw1n_ [~c0rw1n@cpc109847-bagu17-2-0-cust223.1-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:45 -!- TinKode [~TinKode@unaffiliated/tinkode] has quit [Quit: TinKode] 14:53 < fltrz> which giant filters are you referring to? what are noot vendors? 14:53 < kanzure> star shades 14:53 < kanzure> nootropic vendors 14:53 < fltrz> ah 14:54 < ebowden> kanzure, one of the few that did was sued and went under. 14:55 < ebowden> (Powdercity) 14:56 < fltrz> I meant on the ground, i.e. instead of having a single level of plants at ground level, stack 2 layers of plants, with appropriate lighting, and on top a solar panel the surplus energy is stored, and the plants receive a constant amount of light during daytime instead of little, good, too much, good, little 15:20 -!- rpifan [~rpifan@207-244-191-189-dhcp.mia.fl.atlanticbb.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:20 -!- Joshchamp [sid159459@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ihevruavhnvrzfoa] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:49 -!- c0rw1n_ [~c0rw1n@cpc109847-bagu17-2-0-cust223.1-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:50 -!- c0rw1n_ [~c0rw1n@cpc109847-bagu17-2-0-cust223.1-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:55 -!- c0rw1n_ [~c0rw1n@cpc109847-bagu17-2-0-cust223.1-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:55 -!- c0rw1n_ [~c0rw1n@cpc109847-bagu17-2-0-cust223.1-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:56 -!- c0rw1n_ [~c0rw1n@cpc109847-bagu17-2-0-cust223.1-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:56 -!- c0rw1n_ [~c0rw1n@cpc109847-bagu17-2-0-cust223.1-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:15 < fltrz> kanzure: thanks for posting the sequency memory neuronal model, as far as I have read it, it explicitly models neuronal feedback on cellular level, as opposed to the common whole brain backpropagation feedback without basis in a single neuron model 16:18 < heath> nmz787: useful! thanks for sharing 16:31 < fltrz> the simulation results for the online learning is stunning, it reaches 'perfection' or best possible accuracy after a few thousand tries, the initial learning being steep... this reflects very much human task learning 16:32 < fltrz> but its still obscure to me how the identities of presynaptic cells are chosen for the dendritic segment clustered synapses 16:57 -!- franksteine [8068adeb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.128.104.173.235] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:03 -!- mrdata [~mrdata@unaffiliated/mrdata] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:05 -!- darsie [~username@84-114-73-160.cable.dynamic.surfer.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:20 -!- strages [uid11297@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bxkwjwngznxvfmrg] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:26 -!- delinquentme [~delinquen@107-138-44-219.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:53 -!- rpifan 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20:07 < kanzure> yashgaroth: be greeted 20:07 < yashgaroth> ah, hello 20:42 -!- aeiousom1thing [~aeiousome@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/aeiousomething] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:43 -!- rpifan [~rpifan@207-244-191-189-dhcp.mia.fl.atlanticbb.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:44 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@183.82.170.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:49 < kanzure> jrayhawk: could we fix the ssl cert issues on diyhpl.us 20:57 < jrayhawk> Okay, done. 20:58 < kanzure> thank you 21:29 -!- abetusk [~abe@68.175.143.22] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:42 -!- abetusk [~abe@68.175.143.22] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:42 -!- abetusk is now known as Guest4318 22:04 < mrdata_> https://www.nextbigfuture.com/2017/10/darpa-brain-stimulation-can-accelerate-learning-by-40-know-why-it-works-could-be-common-by-2023.html 22:20 -!- kwgwk [~kwgwk@boole.london.hackspace.org.uk] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:21 < nmz787> yashgaroth: so this old dude was telling me half-life of enzymes is in the hours 22:22 < yashgaroth> for some of them, yeah 22:22 < nmz787> he was saying even the best 22:22 < nmz787> like even PCR enzymes 22:22 < nmz787> I don't know/remember the max PCR cycles possible 22:22 < yashgaroth> PCR enzymes are running at 95C so that's not too surprising 22:22 < nmz787> and even then I was saying like, isn't that input vs output concentration dependent... not the enzyme dying 22:22 < nmz787> and he was like, no, the enzyme goes bad 22:23 < yashgaroth> well that's just, like, his opinion man 22:23 < nmz787> I can only imagine some room-temp color conversion experiment, with the enzyme in some dialysis tubing, and input reagent dripped in from the top 22:24 < nmz787> what's that immuno color based thing? 22:24 < nmz787> horseradish peroxidase? 22:24 < yashgaroth> ELISA 22:24 < yashgaroth> but yeah you could test it on HRP 22:24 < nmz787> yeah I mean the common signalling enzyme that is bound to the antibody in ELISA 22:24 < nmz787> that does color change, right? 22:25 < yashgaroth> yeah 22:25 < yashgaroth> anyway it still depends on the enzyme and conditions, if it's running in a cell and/or at high temperatures, eventually it'll degrade in a way that makes it nonfunctional 22:26 < yashgaroth> if you expect it to catalyze reactions for days you'll probably be disappointed, luckily proteins are cheap 22:27 < nmz787> well I was thinking something like a DNA harddrive 22:27 < nmz787> or storage 22:27 < nmz787> or synthesis pipeline 22:27 < nmz787> basically you're saying I need to factor in protein supply and waste stream I guess 22:27 < nmz787> or that's how I'm hearing it 22:28 < nmz787> even how many enzymes per bp DNA synthesized 22:28 < nmz787> or bp per enzyme, rather 22:28 < yashgaroth> mhm, stability is okay but during catalysis I suppose there's a small chance the protein will covalently bind the substrate or something 22:29 < yashgaroth> if you've got reactive chemicals in there they'll attack it as well 22:29 < nmz787> just thinking water and any needed salts at this point 22:29 < nmz787> for i.e. TdT 22:29 < nmz787> so polymerase 22:29 < nmz787> and incoming nucleotide triphosphates 22:30 < nmz787> unless I can think of a way to use these PEDOT:PSS electrodes (which at low enough voltage prevent catalysis of water) then there might be evolution of H2 and O2 at either electrode 22:31 < nmz787> which I am hoping to avoid 22:31 < yashgaroth> yeah O2 is nasty stuff 22:31 < yashgaroth> plus the other free radicals which are infinitely worse 22:33 < yashgaroth> idk if someone's done a study on that, like running a polymerase for a long time and doing mass spec to fingerprint if the enzyme ends up with a phosphate stuck to it 22:34 < nmz787> I was also thinking about possibly implementing a sort of linear motor, so the electrophoresis could be lower voltage along a micro/nanochannel 22:35 < nmz787> like striped electrophoresis electrodes 22:35 < nmz787> and using close pairs of them 22:35 < nmz787> instead of from one end to the other 22:35 < nmz787> sort of like that "digital microfluidics", but nano 22:35 < nmz787> and in channels, instead of an open plane 22:36 < yashgaroth> mm, biomolecules are gonna get fucked up if they actually reach the electrode though 22:37 -!- rpifan [~rpifan@207-244-191-189-dhcp.mia.fl.atlanticbb.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:37 < nmz787> yeah idk, I can't remember much about electrochemistry 22:37 < nmz787> I seem to think there is some voltage that they might be OK 22:37 < nmz787> like, that's the reaction energy for a given temperature or something 22:38 < yashgaroth> it's a dangerous game I'd imagine, but yeah I'm not big on electrochem either 22:41 < nmz787> there might be some possibility to add a thin insulating layer, so it's more of a capacitive coupling, so DC can't go through 22:41 < nmz787> then I'd have to do AC electrophoresis 22:41 < nmz787> with a controller to pulse one of the electrodes a bit more than the other 22:41 < nmz787> to get directional control 22:43 < yashgaroth> I'm also not big on electrics, but sure 22:45 < fenn> .title https://m.phys.org/news/2017-10-gene-brain-major.html 22:45 < yoleaux> fenn: Sorry, that doesn't appear to be an HTML page. 22:45 < fenn> huh 22:46 < heath> .wik foldamer 22:46 < yoleaux> "In chemistry, a foldamer is a discrete chain molecule or oligomer that folds into a conformationally ordered state in solution. They are artificial molecules that mimic the ability of proteins, nucleic acids, and polysaccharides to fold into well-defined conformations, such as helices and β-sheets." — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foldamer 22:47 < fenn> vSLENDR (viral mediated single-cell labeling of endogenous proteins by CRISPR-Cas9-mediated homology-directed repair) 22:53 < nmz787> heath: that reminds me of the ability to take impressions of antibodies with plastic, and the plastic retained some antigen-binding capability -- https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2874824/figure/F1/ 22:55 < nmz787> I got my gleaux plant today (again, after first one was contaminated upon arrival), this time being dirt-rooted 22:55 < nmz787> I potted it earlier, and tried to look at it 22:55 < nmz787> but couldn't see anything 22:55 < nmz787> I have a dSLR I can try setting up 22:55 -!- augur_ [~augur@199-116-74-126.PUBLIC.monkeybrains.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:56 -!- jtimon [~quassel@164.31.134.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:57 -!- yashgaroth [~yashgarot@2606:6000:cd4d:3300:f5e0:f867:a11d:8d52] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:42 -!- augur [~augur@199-116-74-126.PUBLIC.monkeybrains.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap --- Log closed Tue Oct 24 00:00:08 2017