--- Log opened Thu Dec 14 00:00:43 2017 00:09 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@183.177.122.38] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:46 -!- rpifan_ [~rpifan@207-244-191-189-dhcp.mia.fl.atlanticbb.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:47 -!- rpifan_ [~rpifan@207-244-191-189-dhcp.mia.fl.atlanticbb.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:49 -!- rpifan [~rpifan@207-244-191-189-dhcp.mia.fl.atlanticbb.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:55 -!- bkero [~bkero@osuosl/staff/bkero] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:56 -!- bkero [~bkero@osuosl/staff/bkero] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:12 -!- drewbot [~cinch@54.166.16.163] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:14 -!- drewbot [~cinch@23.23.29.242] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:18 -!- poppingtonic [~brian@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:20 -!- poppingtonic [~brian@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:10 -!- poppingtonic [~brian@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:13 -!- Cory [~Cory@unaffiliated/cory] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:17 -!- augur [~augur@2600:380:857c:65a3:1129:620c:3290:1b18] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:26 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@2001:8003:1074:bc00:587c:cecc:ec4c:71fb] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:30 -!- poppingtonic [~brian@196.207.170.40] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:30 -!- poppingtonic [~brian@196.207.170.40] has quit [Changing host] 02:30 -!- poppingtonic [~brian@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:05 -!- bluebear_ [~dluhos@80.95.97.194] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:07 -!- superkuh [~superkuh@unaffiliated/superkuh] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:12 -!- superkuh [~superkuh@unaffiliated/superkuh] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:14 -!- Cory [~Cory@unaffiliated/cory] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:27 -!- DataPacRat [~dan@adsl-91.itcanada.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:41 -!- DataPacRat [~dan@adsl-91.itcanada.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:01 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bgwsldfpwelljhqe] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:08 -!- darsie [~username@84-114-73-160.cable.dynamic.surfer.at] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:02 -!- Gurkenglas [~Gurkengla@dslb-094-223-133-187.094.223.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:04 < kanzure> beamforming microphone array stuff https://sourceforge.net/p/manyears/wiki/Main_Page/ 06:31 -!- osboxes [~osboxes@177.252.251.169] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:34 -!- master472816 [~logstash@177.252.251.169] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:35 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@2001:8003:1074:bc00:587c:cecc:ec4c:71fb] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:36 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@110.141.92.153] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:45 -!- master472816 [~logstash@177.252.251.169] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:47 -!- master472816 [~logstash@177.252.251.169] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:50 -!- aidan [~aidan@198-84-217-218.cpe.teksavvy.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:53 -!- aidan [~aidan@198.84.217.218] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:06 -!- aidan [~aidan@198.84.217.218] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:14 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bgwsldfpwelljhqe] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 07:15 -!- mindsForge [~nak@75-171-23-2.phnx.qwest.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:30 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wwmeaopdudsyjdkb] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:27 -!- yorick [~yorick@oftn/oswg-member/yorick] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:49 -!- NikopolSohru [~NSohru@85.159.237.48] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:00 -!- poppingtonic [~brian@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:02 -!- master472816 [~logstash@177.252.251.169] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:03 -!- osboxes [~osboxes@177.252.251.169] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:09 -!- Gurkenglas [~Gurkengla@dslb-094-223-133-187.094.223.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:42 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:42 -!- rpifan [~rpifan@207.244.191.189] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:43 -!- NikopolSohru [~NSohru@85.159.237.48] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:45 <@fenn> "Man is a rope, tied between beast and overman—a rope over an abyss. A dangerous across, a dangerous on-the-way, a dangerous looking-back, a dangerous shuddering and stopping. 09:45 <@fenn> What is great in man is that he is a bridge and not an end: what can be loved in man is that he is an overture and a going under. I love those who do not know how to live, for they are those who cross over." 09:49 <@fenn> transcendent/downfall 09:50 < nmz787> is that a movie, game, or book? 09:50 <@fenn> book 09:52 < spurserh> life is about contrasts; you can't have the light without the darkness. in physics terms, there must be a hot and a cold region to do work 09:52 < spurserh> (with thermal energy) 09:53 <@fenn> i am throwing together an actual transhumanist roadmap with actual technologies, and i'm reading the sid meyer's alpha centauri (civilization) tech tree for inspiration 09:55 -!- Gurkenglas [~Gurkengla@dslb-094-223-133-187.094.223.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:55 -!- jtimon [~quassel@37.134.31.164] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:57 < rpifan> lol 09:57 < rpifan> no 09:57 < rpifan> fenn, first make me a new testicle 09:58 < maaku> rpifan: you didn't eat your testicle when btc made $10k, did you? 09:59 < rpifan> i got cancer sadly 10:01 < maaku> rpifan: I'm sorry to hear that. Complete remission? 10:02 < rpifan> tbh idk 10:02 <@fenn> you never know 10:03 < rpifan> i mean it was localized to one part of the testicle 10:03 < rpifan> if we had better surgery technies they couldhave just removed that junk 10:03 < rpifan> stupid conversative surgeons 10:04 <@fenn> so yeah, we could be working on curing cancer like 9 million other people, or we could do something that improves our ability to solve problems in general 10:04 < rpifan> all they knw how to do is cut ppl open 10:04 <@fenn> i don't know what the best answer is, so i'm working on a tech tree so i can think about the problem 10:05 <@fenn> also the correct invocation is "sudo make testicle" 10:05 < rpifan> lol 10:05 < rpifan> u gotta cmopile it first 10:06 -!- jaboja [~jaboja@jaboja.pl] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:07 <@fenn> "And what of the immortal soul in such transactions? Can this machine transmit and reattach it as well? Or is it lost forever, leaving a soulless body to wander the world in despair?" 10:08 < rpifan> the highlander i say 10:10 <@fenn> "With sufficient enlightenment we can give substance to any distinction: mind without body, north without south, pleasure without pain." 10:13 -!- Gurkenglas [~Gurkengla@dslb-094-223-133-187.094.223.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:26 < maaku> fenn: I'd be interested in that tech tree 10:30 -!- osboxes [~osboxes@dynamic-186-154-221-18.dynamic.etb.net.co] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:30 -!- master472816 [~logstash@dynamic-186-154-221-18.dynamic.etb.net.co] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:34 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wwmeaopdudsyjdkb] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 10:38 -!- jaboja [~jaboja@jaboja.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:39 <@fenn> maaku currently it's just an incomplete clumped together list of things: http://fennetic.net/irc/technology_nodes.yaml 10:40 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@190.99.101.24] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:44 <@fenn> i'm not really sure how to draw a distinction between "technologies that joe schmoe can use for free" and "technologies that universities and corporations share access to because they're so expensive" 10:44 <@fenn> maybe it's technology readiness level 11 10:45 <@fenn> also due to the subject matter, there's a lot of imperfectly understood performance boosts 10:46 -!- Gurkenglas [~Gurkengla@dslb-094-223-133-187.094.223.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:48 < kanzure> electron beam + gas phase manufacturing 10:48 <@fenn> is that like ALD? 10:49 <@fenn> i'm mostly not writing specific manufacturing technologies right now, because 1) i've already done that in SKDB and 2) it would be distracting because there are so many 10:50 < kanzure> i guess it's more like vapor deposition 10:50 < kanzure> anyway, fine 10:58 -!- Malvolio [~Malvolio@unaffiliated/malvolio] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:05 -!- Gurkenglas [~Gurkengla@dslb-094-223-133-187.094.223.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:08 -!- bluebear_ [~dluhos@80.95.97.194] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:20 < JayDugger> fenn, this should help http://civilization.wikia.com/wiki/Technology_tree_(SMAC) 11:22 <@fenn> yeah i am trying to print this out https://makezine.com/2013/07/06/the-rockwell-integrated-space-plan-vector-redux-version/ 11:23 < JayDugger> The wikia omits the flavor text from the game, which you can find from the game files or from IIRC the GURPS Alpha Centauri book. 11:23 < JayDugger> Yeah, there's an updated version of the ISP. 11:24 <@fenn> there's more flavor text than just the quotes? 11:24 < JayDugger> https://integratedspaceanalytics.com/im/2017/isp.html 11:25 < JayDugger> Yeah, in the game you could toggle between an in-setting description of the technology and the associated quote (default). 11:25 <@fenn> i guess you are talking about http://alphacentauri2.info/wiki/Techlongs.txt 11:26 < JayDugger> Looks right, though it omits the expansion's tech tree, I think. (usual disclaimer about reasoning from fiction here) 11:27 < JayDugger> Here's a click/zoom/pan version of the ISP https://integratedspaceanalytics.com/im/t2/ 11:27 <@fenn> i dont like the new one 11:29 <@fenn> oh this is ok. there was another one that didn't show dependencies at all, instead just putting it on a timeline 11:29 -!- WeirdTolkienishF [~Weird@unaffiliated/weirdtolkienishf] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:30 < emeraldgreen> I'm into 3d-printing now https://i.imgur.com/0Mkgn5h.jpg finally 11:31 <@fenn> nice continuously variable transmission :P 11:31 < JayDugger> Fair enough. As long as you want to draw inspiration from games, there's also the new edition of High Frontier (example of tech card https://boardgamegeek.com/image/2581134/high-frontier-3rd-edition) 11:33 < JayDugger> You can find the rules for it here (https://docs.google.com/document/d/19bQZOUoxtxNM__Yo4xWf6sPDgnifYPnQweOmoLwm_O8/edit#) 11:33 < JayDugger> No other game-related technology tree of interest comes to mind. 11:43 -!- emeraldgreen is now known as kirka 11:46 -!- Gurkenglas [~Gurkengla@dslb-094-223-133-187.094.223.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:01 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ucbmnpfivxylipok] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:04 -!- mindsForge [~nak@75-171-23-2.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:05 -!- Gurkenglas [~Gurkengla@dslb-094-223-133-187.094.223.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:08 -!- Gurkenglas [~Gurkengla@dslb-094-223-133-187.094.223.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:20 -!- eb3c90 [~kvirc@host109-155-89-117.range109-155.btcentralplus.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:25 -!- rpifan_ [~rpifan@207-244-191-189-dhcp.mia.fl.atlanticbb.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:26 -!- rpifan_ [~rpifan@207-244-191-189-dhcp.mia.fl.atlanticbb.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:28 -!- rpifan [~rpifan@207.244.191.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:32 < eb3c90> Could've sworn I posted here a few days a go, can't find it in the logs though. May have got lost in a netsplit. 12:34 < eb3c90> Anyone know an IRC channel interested in making better computer architecture? Going beyond the pozix models etc? 12:35 < catern> eb3c90: if you find one, I'm very interested too :) 12:35 < kirka> eb3c90 there is mill computing, also there is RISC-V/Boom 12:36 < kirka> eb3c90 I'm interested in this too 12:36 < kirka> kirka Are you interested in maximizing serial performance, manycore processing or tensor processing? Or FPGAs? I think these are most of the relevant classes of computing devices in existance 12:37 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/aeiousomething] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:38 < eb3c90> I'm interested in embedding security models in architecture mainly. But If you are moving for security reasons it makes sense to look at other improvements too, 12:39 < eb3c90> I created this blog, which gives some details of how we might go about exploring the space. https://offpistearchitecture.wordpress.com 12:40 < eb3c90> kirka: I've heard of mill, not heard of RISC-V/Boom. 12:40 < kirka> eb3c90 there was talk about http://www.lowrisc.org/docs/tagged-memory-v0.1/tags/ 12:41 -!- osboxes [~osboxes@dynamic-186-154-221-18.dynamic.etb.net.co] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:41 < gradstudentbot> Wow, very ethical. 12:41 < eb3c90> I'm more in favour of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capability-based_addressing 12:42 < kirka> IMHO security could be mostly done by having a simple ISA, openhardware implementation, rigid memory protection, bounds checking and capability-based OS (similar to android and iOS), Am I close to being right here, or is it dunning-kruger? 12:42 < kirka> eb3c90 sounds like a good idea 12:44 < eb3c90> kirka: Depends what you want. I'm interested in systems that can protect themselves from a DOS attack, if something gets remote code execution. You need something like agorics for that as far as I can tell. 12:45 -!- Gurkenglas [~Gurkengla@dslb-094-223-133-187.094.223.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:45 -!- master472816 [~logstash@dynamic-186-154-221-18.dynamic.etb.net.co] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:45 -!- jaboja [~jaboja@jaboja.pl] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:46 < maaku> kirka: depends on what you mean by 'security'. there are a lot more hardware attack vulnerabilities you'd have to protect against, such as cache timing attacks, and power draw attacks 12:46 < maaku> fwiw I'm on the security/crypto working group for risc-v, if people are interested in feeding forward suggestions on such topics 12:47 < maaku> eb3c90: sounds like you want RISC-V : https://riscv.org 12:49 < maaku> the RISC-V isa is purposefully constructed in an extensible way to support tagge memory architectures and/or capability based addressing, although such extensions are not part of the ISA itself 12:49 < maaku> eb3c90: you should also talk to azonenberg 12:49 < eb3c90> Maaku: I'll check it out. 12:52 < catern> eb3c90: oh yeah cap-security is great, I assume you're a fan of Cheri? 12:52 < gradstudentbot> I think my e.coli culture walked out the building. 12:52 < kirka> maaku yup, side channels are special, one needs at least ECC tp protect against rowhammer and some clever cache design tricks to ensure constant time access (without dependence on physical bank id) and power draw seems doable only with good RF shielding 12:53 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@190.99.101.24] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:53 -!- Gurkenglas [~Gurkengla@dslb-094-223-133-187.094.223.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:53 < kirka> And even then power draw could be deduced by mains power ripple 12:53 < maaku> hardware security is a super tricky subject. fwiw my company makes HSMs, hence I'm pretty well versed in this (although I'm ostensibly a crypto protocol and software person) 12:54 < eb3c90> catern: I wasn't, but I am now reading up on it. I've not had as much time to keep up with hardware stuff recently. 12:56 < gradstudentbot> Haha, undergrads. 12:56 < catern> eb3c90: ah well if you're a fan of cap-sec in hardware, then Cheri is for you 12:56 < catern> IMO though hardware security is a mistake really, what we really need to do is delete all the features from our hardware as much as possible 12:57 < maaku> I'm curious what you could do extending a cheri-like system with programmable access contorl or delegation 12:57 < catern> transparent caching: delete it, cache coherence: gone, memory protection: no way 12:57 < maaku> catern: you're not going to unwind the complexity of what we want to build 12:57 < kirka> Do you think you need hardware for capabilities and not just cap-based microkernel like fuchsia OS? 12:57 < catern> and instead do everything in software 12:58 < maaku> but we can make the architecture more explicitly multi-layered and less monolithic, allowing verification of components and their interactions 12:58 < catern> kirka: fuchsia and other microkernels are dependent on hardware protection. the real winner is language-based protection 12:58 < maaku> nothing is ever done only in software. it has to actually run on hardware 12:58 < kirka> catern sadly performance and price driv market adoption and survival of the ISA 12:58 < catern> that way you can get rid of silly hardware misfeatures 12:58 < catern> kirka: I'm all for performance and price 12:59 < catern> we can get a lot faster and cheaper processors once we stop emulating stupid x86 and cache coherency and all that worthless stuff 12:59 < maaku> kirka: I'm also curious to see what can be done with isolated security co-processors, such that you could have a programmable secure enclave with higher assurances about side channel resistance, but on the same die as the fast chip 13:00 < maaku> you have to have some cache coherency model... 13:00 < catern> no you don't :) 13:00 < catern> you don't need cache coherency if you don't have implicitly shared caches and implicit shared memory 13:01 < catern> shared memory is an absurdity and it's already breaking down - you want to live in a future with NUMA forever? 13:01 < catern> what we want is levels of scratchpad memory instead, with sharing coordinated in software https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scratchpad_memory 13:01 < kirka> catern I agree with you, that's the premise of manycore, but reality dictates that people need linux/POSIX and debian running on the CPU, that means many hardware features have to remain 13:02 < catern> kirka: you can implement Linux/POSIX on top of radical new architectures, what's the problem? 13:02 < kirka> linux mandates cache coherent multiprocessing AFAIK 13:02 < kirka> linux has lots of locks in its code 13:02 < catern> sure, you need to port it :) 13:03 < kirka> and its written around multithreaded shared memory model 13:03 < kirka> dunno if it's possible 13:03 < kirka> port something else and emulate linux syscalls could be more realistic, but that's a huge undertaking 13:04 < catern> well, just write an x86 emulator then 13:04 < kirka> that being said, with a single core there is no problem if it's brutally simple, linux will run on anything with MMU and sufficient ram 13:04 < catern> be transmeta 2 13:06 < catern> anyway, let's be real: if we have to keep Linux around we're never going to get better CPUs 13:06 < catern> gotta throw off those shackles of backwards compat :) 13:06 < catern> you can have a dedicated x86 core amid a manycore grid if you like :) 13:07 < eb3c90> I'm definitely in favour of exploring hardware spaces that don't require linux. We just have to find something that is good enough to make people switch. 13:08 < kirka> catern mips and riscv run linux ok without cache coherence 13:08 < maaku> catern: "sharing coordinated in software" requires a cross-core resource locking mechanism, the same exact thing underlying shared memory 13:08 < catern> maaku: no it just requires message passing, the same thing underlying your cross-core resource locking mechanism :) 13:09 < kirka> >(12:06:58 AM) catern: you can have a dedicated x86 core amid a manycore grid if you like :) 13:09 < kirka> that's a realistic proposition. See: CPU+GPU, see Nvidia Drive PX, see IBM Cell 13:09 < maaku> message passing with atomicity and ordering guarantees plus some atomic semantics, now we're back where we started 13:09 < catern> kirka: yeah 13:09 < catern> kirka: I think that's what where we will end up 13:09 < catern> not too bad :) 13:10 < maaku> catern: see the section in this blog, on Celerity: http://www.lowrisc.org/blog/2017/11/seventh-risc-v-workshop-day-two/ 13:10 < catern> maaku: think beyond memory :) message passing doesn't require memory 13:10 < maaku> http://opencelerity.org 13:12 < maaku> catern: unreliable message passing is insufficient to build reliable coordination mechanisms. you need atomic primitives and a cache coherency model to build your message passing system, or something equivalent 13:12 < catern> kirka: but as you can tell from the many different approaches I just proposed (port linux, emulate x86, dedicated x86 core in grid), I'm not really certain of what we should do :) 13:13 < maaku> but what you want is prefectly achievable on, e.g., a multi-core RISC-V system. just initialize each core with different, non-overlapping VMM pages 13:13 < catern> maaku: never said anything about unreliable 13:14 < catern> the message passing would be just as reliable as the message passing that your CPU does today to implement cache coherence :) 13:14 < maaku> you said you don't want cache coherency complications, but those same complications underly all reliable messaging or inter-core communication mechanisms 13:14 < maaku> in any case, Celerity demonstrates a cross-core message passing crossbar that would be interesting for your use case 13:14 < maaku> and their default implementation is 511 cores on a single chip 13:15 < maaku> with scratchpads per processor 13:15 < maaku> very much an open-source gpgpu setup 13:15 < maaku> *per core 13:15 < kirka> kek sound like bysantine generals problem and you know the most hyped solution... 13:15 < catern> haha 13:16 < kirka> could we get 2M $ seed funding for next gen security via blockchain-on-a-chip ( ( ( ^: ? 13:16 < maaku> Esperanto Technologies is doing the same thing, with 4k cores per chip. I know less about their solution though (other than that they hired the guy that did BOOM, which is a crying shame as I wanted to employ him...) 13:16 < maaku> kirka: if you're serious and have a use case, contact me out of band 13:17 < catern> kirka: dealing with mutually distrustful chips in an efficient grid is a problem that computer science is not yet ready for :) 13:17 < catern> at least blockchain would let you arbitrarily hotplug though 13:17 < catern> kirka: I mean it's a lot like urbit actually 13:18 < catern> kirka: which pretty-close-to-literally is what you just described 13:18 < kirka> catern +1 kek for reminding me of urbit 13:18 < catern> (at least, if you implemented urbit in hardware, I guess that is how it would look) 13:18 < catern> (close enough) 13:20 < catern> maaku: also have you heard of this exciting new reliable message passing mechanism known as "wires" 13:20 < kirka> I always wondered how Intel guarantees cache-coherency reliability, do they assume finite time always delivered messages, then deliver them with strong drivers via thick wires, or what? How can one guarantee that billions of cache coherence traffic will pass ~10cm between server chips flawlessly? Or do they have some CRC scheme (I erad about it) and timouts/retry? 13:21 < eb3c90> I've got lots of reading todo. Catch you guys later. I'll document my vm at some point, and get you guys to have a look at it. Need to learn chisel. 13:23 < maaku> I'm told that if you liked the technology underlying urbit you might like this : https://blockstream.com/simplicity.pdf 13:24 < maaku> kirka: it's too complicated to summarize over irc. but there are various protocols for doing semaphore-like things in hardware with lock-release or read-writer semantics 13:24 < catern> I'm not too interested in distributed systems really, my concrete interests are much more pragmatic 13:25 < catern> (that's just me) 13:25 < maaku> that's how cache coherency is supposed to be maintained -- you write to a cache line, yoru pipeline gets a lock on that cache line and stalls if the lock is held by someone else 13:25 -!- eb3c90 [~kvirc@host109-155-89-117.range109-155.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:25 < maaku> or on an OOM machine, executes a different instruction while it waits 13:26 < catern> maaku: yes, kirka knows that I am sure, but he is wondering how e.g. the messages that MESI uses to communicate don't have errors or get dropped 13:34 < catern> I also wonder that, I was just assuming that everyone was just assuming that they were "reliable enough" 13:36 < kirka> catern Computer Scientists are not used to unreliable substrate, so they could be hard hit by e.g. Intel latest skaylake hyperthreading bug 13:36 < kirka> Also: I'm planning to coreboot/me_clean my x230, almost there 13:58 -!- CaptHindsight [~2020@unaffiliated/capthindsight] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:58 < CaptHindsight> came across this bioprinter http://www.3ders.org/articles/20171205-irnas-researchers-3d-print-ear-shaped-vasculature-using-open-source-vitaprint-3d-bioprinter.html 13:58 < yoleaux> 1 Dec 2017 19:34Z CaptHindsight: yes but unfortunately I have pulled the wool from my eyes and see there is no magic, just lots of skills/techniques/processes that are complex, and with that info try to determine how to go forward with the best bang-for-my-buck (also considering time is money) 13:58 < yoleaux> 2 Dec 2017 01:30Z CaptHindsight: The US and Australia also do their own bioprinters and work on organoids. The Chinese are by far not the only ones. 13:59 < CaptHindsight> not open source if they use a closed source cnc controller 14:00 < CaptHindsight> what do people have against using open source cnc controllers like LCNC? 14:09 < kanzure> .title https://lists.launchpad.net/mimblewimble/msg00372.html 14:09 < yoleaux> Podcast on Mimblewimble with Andrew Poelstra : Mailing list archive : mimblewimble team in Launchpad 14:09 < kanzure> https://moneromonitor.com/episodes/2017-12-05-Episode-016.html 14:10 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ucbmnpfivxylipok] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 14:19 -!- Gurkenglas [~Gurkengla@dslb-094-223-133-187.094.223.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:22 -!- augur [~augur@192.195.83.130] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:25 -!- augur is now known as Guest15725 14:27 -!- Guest15725 [~augur@192.195.83.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:48 -!- Gurkenglas 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[~logstash@dynamic-186-155-97-84.dynamic.etb.net.co] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:38 -!- rpifan [~rpifan@207.244.191.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:55 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/aeiousomething] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:42 < nmz787> _____ 20:42 < nmz787> _-~~ ~~-_// 20:42 < nmz787> /~ ~\ 20:42 < nmz787> | _ |_ 20:42 < nmz787> | _--~~~ )~~ )___ 20:42 < nmz787> \| / ___ _-~ ~-_ 20:42 < nmz787> \ _-~ ~-_ \ 20:42 < nmz787> | / \ | 20:42 < nmz787> | | | (O | 20:42 < nmz787> | | | | 20:42 < nmz787> | | O) | | 20:42 < nmz787> /| | | / 20:42 < nmz787> / \ _--_ \ /-_ _-~) 20:42 < nmz787> /~ \ ~-_ _-~ ~~~__/ 20:42 < nmz787> | |\ ~-_ ~~~ _-~~---~ \ 20:42 < nmz787> | | | ~--~~ / \ ~-_ 20:42 < nmz787> | \ | ~-_ 20:42 < nmz787> \ ~-| ~~--__ _-~~-, 20:42 < nmz787> ~-_ | / | 20:42 < nmz787> ~~--| / 20:42 < nmz787> | | / 20:42 < nmz787> | | _ _-~ 20:42 < nmz787> | /~~--_ __---~~ _-~ 20:42 < nmz787> | \ __--~~ 20:42 < nmz787> | |~~--__ ___---~~ 20:43 < nmz787> | | ~~~~~ 20:43 < gradstudentbot> Yeah, I don't know. 20:43 < nmz787> | | 20:43 < kanzure> no spam 20:44 < nmz787> cartoons aren't spam 20:46 -!- augur [~augur@192.195.83.130] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:00 -!- Malvolio [~Malvolio@unaffiliated/malvolio] has quit [Killed (kornbluth.freenode.net (Nickname regained by services))] 21:00 -!- Malvolio [~Malvolio@unaffiliated/malvolio] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:05 -!- Malvolio is now known as Guest28901 21:05 -!- Malvolio [~Malvolio@unaffiliated/malvolio] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:07 -!- Guest28901 [~Malvolio@unaffiliated/malvolio] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:12 < nmz787> search your name for fake filings https://www.fcc.gov/ecfs/ 21:17 -!- DataPacRat [~dan@adsl-91.itcanada.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:20 < maaku> wtf. i searched for my last name and found a bunch of my relatives who supposedly filed comments asking for repeal of net neutrality 21:20 < maaku> they don't even know what net neutrality is, let alone would they refer to it as "the Title II regulatory framework" 21:23 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:23 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Client Quit] 21:23 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:26 -!- justan0theruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:57 -!- rpifan [~rpifan@207-244-191-189-dhcp.mia.fl.atlanticbb.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:59 -!- rpifan_ [~rpifan@207-244-191-189-dhcp.mia.fl.atlanticbb.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:02 -!- rpifan [~rpifan@207-244-191-189-dhcp.mia.fl.atlanticbb.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:02 -!- rpifan_ [~rpifan@207-244-191-189-dhcp.mia.fl.atlanticbb.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:08 -!- rpifan [~rpifan@207-244-191-189-dhcp.mia.fl.atlanticbb.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:23 < mrdata> maaku, someone is probably using their names; maybe contact them? 22:25 -!- Malvolio [~Malvolio@unaffiliated/malvolio] has quit [Quit: ICE AGE NEAR, SCIENTISTS WARN] 22:40 -!- maaku [~maaku@173.234.25.100] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 22:46 -!- maaku [~maaku@173.234.25.100] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:50 -!- rpifan_ [~rpifan@207-244-191-189-dhcp.mia.fl.atlanticbb.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:52 -!- rpifan [~rpifan@207-244-191-189-dhcp.mia.fl.atlanticbb.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:53 -!- rpifan__ [~rpifan@207-244-191-189-dhcp.mia.fl.atlanticbb.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:53 -!- poppingtonic [~brian@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:56 -!- rpifan_ [~rpifan@207-244-191-189-dhcp.mia.fl.atlanticbb.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:56 -!- mindsForge [~nak@75-171-23-2.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:58 < adlai> gradstudentbot: how many professors should i gift coauthorship options on my first paper? 22:58 < gradstudentbot> I coauthored a paper about that a few years ago. 22:58 < adlai> fuck you 22:58 < adlai> useless piece of software 22:58 < adlai> you're not even stuff 23:01 * mrdata is ignorant of these "gift coauthorship options" 23:02 < adlai> it works like this 23:02 < adlai> i sit down for a coffee ior bullshit session with a professor 23:03 < adlai> drop potential papers left and right, but leave before i write 23:03 < adlai> they are lazy and waiting for people like me to write the paper, but they also need the coauthorship citations 23:03 < adlai> it's a really stupid game and i can't believe i'm still playing it. 23:03 < mrdata> i have never played it 23:04 < adlai> you should, it's the only way to appreciate how stupid it is 23:04 < mrdata> but then, i only got a B Sc 23:04 < adlai> ahh 23:04 < adlai> you never got invited to play this game during that? 23:04 < mrdata> no 23:04 < mrdata> seems like a very stupid game 23:04 * adlai is sorry to hear this! but glad that he himself is being pushed in this direction rather than the "gpa optimization" game 23:05 < adlai> gpa optimization is an even stupider game and i basically told them this myself every day until they stopped pushing me there. 23:05 < mrdata> you probably need the prof's name on the paper or it wont be published in a prestigious journal'? 23:05 < adlai> CHALLENGE ACCEPTED 23:05 * adlai reads up on identity theft 23:06 < adlai> oh, i could publish in Ledger. 23:06 < adlai> !nextProblem 23:07 < adlai> pop quiz: how many times does an idiot need to click "Change the random walk" in https://www.math.upenn.edu/~pstorm/hyperbolic_random_walk/index.html before they suddenly understand economics? 23:09 -!- brujo_biologica [~brujo@li1745-37.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 23:25 -!- poppingtonic [~brian@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:35 -!- rpifan__ [~rpifan@207-244-191-189-dhcp.mia.fl.atlanticbb.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:35 -!- rpifan [~rpifan@207-244-191-189-dhcp.mia.fl.atlanticbb.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:39 -!- helleshin [~talinck@cpe-174-97-113-184.cinci.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:43 -!- hehelleshin [~talinck@cpe-174-97-113-184.cinci.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:44 -!- poppingtonic [~brian@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:50 -!- andytoshi [~apoelstra@unaffiliated/andytoshi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] --- Log closed Fri Dec 15 00:00:43 2017