--- Log opened Thu Dec 28 00:00:56 2017
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05:54 < kanzure> .title https://vimeo.com/119612296
05:54 < yoleaux> 113. Emily Leproust- Towards Practical, High-capacity, Low-maintenance Information Storage in Synthesized DNA (Track 2) on Vimeo
05:58 < kanzure> http://courses.cs.vt.edu/cs2104/Spring17Onufriev/LectureNotes/DNA.storage.pdf
05:59 < kanzure> why would anyone write code like this O_O https://github.com/allanino/DNA/blob/4ba884a14e4ce1f6530929b04d33139353c895dc/dna/dna.py
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10:13 < streety> it's not the worse I've seen today
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10:15 < SkunkFox> streety?
10:15 < SkunkFox> What isn't?
10:15 < kanzure> read the logs
10:15 < SkunkFox> I just joined the channel, no logs.
10:15 < SkunkFox> Oh.
10:15 < SkunkFox> Topic link.
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11:50 < nmz787> their variable and method names suck
11:54 < nmz787> I wonder if there are some carrot-and-stick traits (i.e. lead an animal/person towards a goal) that are also seen as 'bad' or 'negative' traits to football/soccer fans (aka meatheads)
11:55 < nmz787> like that 'gay' voice talk that was posted recently
11:57 < nmz787> like someone with a 'gay' voice won't make it as an ultra-masculine man in the film industry (at least who plays stereotypical roles)
11:57 < nmz787> so maybe that pushes they to nerdier habits (as long as they have intelligence precursor traits)
11:58 < nmz787> obviously this only seems reasonable in the current meathead-majority society we live in
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17:38 < kanzure> "estimated cost of one square meter of the cheapest possible printed electronics able to address 1e6 electrodes at 1 Hz?"
17:55 <@fenn> so and so estimates a printed RFID tag to cost 1 cent, and they're about .001m^2 so $10/m^2 assuming you can cram 1000 electrodes into an RFID tag
17:56 <@fenn> -sized square
17:57 <@fenn> seems plausible, could probably increase the density even
17:58 < kanzure> what about just making my own giant pcb instead
17:58 <@fenn> is the relevant parameter the size or the number of electrodes?
18:00 < kanzure> number of addressable electrodes
18:00 < kanzure> ideally switchable at like 1 Hz or more
18:01 <@fenn> pcbs dont contain semiconductors so you'll have to add 1000000 times the cost of a discrete semiconductor
18:02 <@fenn> hrm some CPLD's have a lot of i/o pins
18:02 <@fenn> hell you could probably just use a ram chip with the top cut off
18:03 < kanzure> literally addressable solder beads on a grid might work for me
18:03 <@fenn> it's the "addressable" part that's hard
18:03 < kanzure> multiplexing? MULTIPLEXING?
18:06 <@fenn> lcd controller chips do this kind of thing but you can't exactly buy them
18:07 <@fenn> is this input, output, or both? what voltage/current etc
18:07 < kanzure> don't know the numbers yet. it's output.
18:08 < kanzure> also, if this doesn't exist, then it seems like a generally helpful thing to go make anyway. giant addressable arrays for all sorts of crazy things.
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18:08 <@fenn> jeez is raspberry pi zero really $5?
18:13 < nmz787> for just the main unit
18:13 < nmz787> not including cables or power supply I think
18:13 < nmz787> SD card, etc
18:13 < kanzure> "SystemVerilog based design and implementation of LCD Controller IP Core" http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/7050481/
18:15 < nmz787> the issue then becomes the pinout of the chips needed
18:15 < nmz787> you still need some serial to parallel converters at some point
18:16 < nmz787> I wonder if you could get a DLP chip and delaminate the MEMS portion, to just have a megapixel of electrodes
18:16 < kanzure> dram decapping
18:17 < kanzure> but that's capacitors or whatever
18:17 < nmz787> hmm
18:17 < nmz787> SRAMs maybe?
18:19 < nmz787> last night I was imagining two planes of piezo beamformers, such that you could create droplets with high-freq impulses, and if you had some of these planes opposing each other could you basically send droplets around from one plane to another
18:19 < nmz787> to do automated microchemistry
18:19 < kanzure> instead of LCD electrowetting photoconductor thin film whateverwhatever?
18:23 < nmz787> it was just a thought in general
18:23 < nmz787> like just the idea of being able to send things back and forth between two planes of spots
18:23 < nmz787> no fluidics then to have lots of moving around
18:25 <@fenn> cheapest pi zero i could find was $13 shipped (random ebay reseller) and it was out of stock most places
18:25 <@fenn> i guess they never figured out how to actually sell it to people
18:26 <@fenn> how do you get the droplets to fly off at an angle?
18:27 < nmz787> beamforming with multiple piezo sub-elements working together
18:28 < nmz787> I figure it should be like radar and all that
18:28 <@fenn> i dont think it actually makes the droplet fly off at an angle though
18:28 <@fenn> the plane would have to warp significantly for that
18:28 < kanzure> i think he means he wants to pinch a droplet off with audio tweezers
18:29 <@fenn> hmm that would work well for in-plane movement
18:30 <@fenn> but you couldn't do it with the other plane in the way. i guess you could just move the second plane in front of the acoustic array when you wanted to transfer something
18:31 < kanzure> electrode array is simpler tech
18:31 <@fenn> yes
18:31 <@fenn> electrowetting requires relatively high voltages
18:31 <@fenn> compared to most digital logic chips
18:32 < nmz787> you could have a cube of piezos
18:32 < nmz787> so you start a droplet, then use the other planes to direct it
18:32 <@fenn> free space droplet movement in 3d?
18:33 <@fenn> i think i need a drawing
18:33 < kanzure> what's hard about a multiplexing lcd controller thing?
18:34 < nmz787> 1 Megabit SRAM for $1.43 in single unit quantity: https://www.mouser.com/productdetail/issi/is61wv6416eebll-10tli?qs=sGAEpiMZZMuIiYGg9i1FDPNTNPDk1kyj1DCLcFS214I%3D
18:34 <@fenn> lcd controllers only address the rows or columns, so you'd only get like 1000 electrodes per chip
18:36 <@fenn> less than that actually, since there are several along each side of a screen
18:36 <@fenn> more like 256 per chip i guess
18:36 <@fenn> also they are low voltage
18:37 <@fenn> mumble mumble vacuum fluorescent display
18:38 <@fenn> mumble mumble plasma tv
18:38 < kanzure> "only address rows or columns" but all LCD elements are addressable...
18:43 <@fenn> the final multiplexing is done inside the screen itself, because each pixel needs a positive and negative electrode
18:44 < kanzure> fiiine i guess i can live with a single row
18:44 < nmz787> that 1M SRAM only has 44 pins
18:44 < nmz787> if decapping it would somehow expose the active elements, I guess you might be able to somehow connect... but really not sure
18:45 <@fenn> apparently vacuum fluorescent display modules have chips with a bunch of pins that go directly to the display module, but there's scant information on the one i've been able to identify (PT6314LQ)
18:46 < nmz787> link?
18:54 <@fenn> this is a better article https://os.mbed.com/users/wim/notebook/vacuum-fluorescent-display-vfd-drivers/
18:54 <@fenn> the pt6314 is for dot matrix displays
18:59 <@fenn> e-ink displays might work without any modifications at all
18:59 <@fenn> they run at 15 volts
19:03 < kanzure> hm
19:05 <@fenn> you would have to peel it apart, then put your droplets inside, (between the two glass electrodes) and then close it to start moving the droplets around
19:06 <@fenn> it would be tricky to get it apart without cracking the glass
19:06 <@fenn> you could load the droplets from the side but then there's problems with contamination
19:07 <@fenn> there are flexible e-ink displays too
19:08 <@fenn> as with most e-ink advances i've never actually seen one for sale anywhere
19:13 <@fenn> ok there are a few available but they are like $700 at least (onyx boox max, sony dpt-s1)
19:18 <@fenn> resolution 1024x758
19:20 < kanzure> we need $10k/array
19:24 < kanzure> or less
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20:26 < SkunkFox> Damn.
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20:30 < kanzure> huh?
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20:39 < kanzure> "Biotechnological production of feed nucleotides by microbial strain improvement" https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S135951131300295X
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--- Log closed Fri Dec 29 00:00:56 2017