--- Log opened Mon Feb 12 00:00:50 2018
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03:31 < archels> coloured output in my application's log file! it's like a gift from the gods!
03:31 < archels> a big wall of dull, structured yet homogeneous-looking console output text becomes a ton easier to navigate this way
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05:29 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/DanBumbarger/status/944379054005690370
05:29 < yoleaux> Won't be long before these Frankenstein beasts will be pumping out 25 terabytes a day of cortex connectivity... Truly mad science. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DRsbuLkU8AAdFza.jpg (@DanBumbarger)
05:30 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/PavelTomancak/status/945321913768972288
05:30 < yoleaux> @DanBumbarger I saw recently a talk from @zeiss_micro about their new multi beam SEM machines. Output of the 64 beam version was >100TB a day. How do they compare? Apologies if I am too out of touch, connectonics is only a hobby for me. (@PavelTomancak, in reply to tw:944379054005690370)
05:30 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/DanBumbarger/status/945363308227338240
05:30 < yoleaux> @PavelTomancak @zeiss_micro The other MICrONS team is using a multibeam. Not sure, but I bet they are getting similar effective imaging rates to us. We'll have 5 parallel microscopes,1 spare(they have 1 total), and include estimates of uptime, sample movements in rates. I bet both methods will work well. (@DanBumbarger, in reply to tw:945321913768972288)
05:30 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/DanBumbarger/status/945365312592949249
05:30 < yoleaux> @VenkRamaswamy @PavelTomancak @zeiss_micro We will do something close to 4nm, with a nominal 40nm section thickness. (@DanBumbarger, in reply to tw:945364465708445696)
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10:31 < kanzure> https://www.theverge.com/2018/2/8/16985666/alexandra-elbakyan-sci-hub-open-access-science-papers-lawsuit
10:31 < kanzure> "In cramped quarters at Russia’s Higher School of Economics, shared by four students and a cat, sat a server with 13 hard drives. The server hosted Sci-Hub"
10:31 < kanzure> so now we know where to go to steal the damn hard drives
10:36 < kanzure> "That worked well until the domain LibGen.org, went down, deleting 40,000 papers Elbakyan had collected, probably because one of its administrators died of cancer."
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10:37 < kanzure> "In 2015, Elsevier sued the piracy site AvaxHome for $37.5 million. Then, the UK-based Publishing Association, of which Elsevier was a member, and the AAP, where Elsevier was joined by closely associated publisher, the American Chemical Society (ACS), also successfully filed an injunction against a slew of ebook pirates — including AvaxHome, LibGen, Ebookee, Freebookspot, Freshwap, Bookfi, ...
10:37 < kanzure> ...and Bookre — mandating that ISPs block customers’ access to them. Later, it also attempted to force Cloudflare, an internet security service, to turn over logs that would identify the operators of LibGen and Bookfi."
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10:44 < kanzure> http://www.howcanishareit.com/
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11:59 < andytoshi> i wonder how fragile elsevier's infrastructure is
11:59 < andytoshi> just idly wondering, ofc
12:03 < kanzure> heh
12:03 < kanzure> well, the way things work is pretty weird
12:03 < kanzure> she isn't exploiting elsevier, she's going through OCLC software
12:04 < kanzure> (the corporate library consortium)
12:15 < kanzure> (ezproxy)
12:15 < kanzure> http://www.wipo.int/pct/en/warning/pct_warning.html
12:23 < nmz787> kanzure: have you followed any of the "memory is stored in microtubules" research? seems relevant for uploading, seems we'd need cryo-EM to resolve, with something like 1 nm^3 resolution (or less?)
12:24 < kanzure> you are asking me if i follow quantum woo-woo?
12:25 < nmz787> not sure the names, but I saw it brought up again recently
12:25 < nmz787> it did mention quantum stuff
12:26 < nmz787> I mean, I guess "we'll cross that bridge when we get there"
12:26 < nmz787> we need all the resolution advances we can anyway... and it won't be until we get a whole brain at the connectome (and weights) that we'll know if we got enough data or we're still missing some
12:27 < kanzure> you wont know for quite a while after that
12:28 < nmz787> yeah, obv people are going to have to scrutinize the data with all sorts of software and simulators/decoders
12:29 < nmz787> 64 beam e-beam sounds good though! I wonder if I could manage a tour of the local ASML campus/building/site
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16:47 < nmz787> http://www.chrispennello.com/tweller/
16:47 < nmz787> .title
16:47 < yoleaux> Tom Weller's Science Made Stupid and Cvltvre Made Stvpid
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18:59 < kanzure> yashgaroth: what is the world record for lifespan of a humster
19:01 < yashgaroth> iunno, probably lasted until the experiment was over
19:04 < kanzure> cool.
19:04 < kanzure> have people tried gamete cell nuclear transfer between species?
19:05 < kanzure> "Customized gametes could theoretically be created using somatic cell nuclear transfer technology. A nucleus from a skin cell from Parent 1 can be transferred into an enucleated oocyte and begin embryonic development by parthenogenesis"
19:05 < yashgaroth> well it'd have to be an egg since that'd rip a sperm apart
19:06 < kanzure> the really early stages of mammalian egg development all have to be pretty similar, surely. or you could get lucky and find one that is pretty similar. i mean it seems that humsters are viable for a few days and that's just totally wrong sperm fertilizing a very wrong egg.
19:06 < kanzure> by similar i mean the internal cellular environment, proteins, execution.
19:07 < kanzure> s/egg development/embryo development
19:07 < yashgaroth> I don't know if people have bothered with interspecies, SCNT is a very specialized technique in general
19:08 < kanzure> well the reason why i ask (if it's not obvious) is that other mammal eggs are easier to harvest
19:08 < yashgaroth> mhm I assumed
19:08 < kanzure> or generate in culture
19:09 < yashgaroth> possibly with human-primate stuff, I doubt you can go much further than monkeys since speciation is often caused by sperm/egg changes that preclude interbreeding
19:09 < kanzure> yeah i haven't reviewed all the problems with interbreeding but i assume a lot of it is down to basic stuff like sperm-egg incompatibility due to surface proteins or environment incompatibility
19:11 < yashgaroth> SCNT also unsuitable for humans, even the 'healthy' animals produced from that have issues
19:12 < kanzure> oh.
19:13 < kanzure> "Parthenogenic activation of an oocyte could be provided by an electrical impulse or by chemical induction."  is this speculation or is this known
19:13 < kanzure> "The efficiency of creating cloned ES cells after autologous transfer of a somatic cell nucleus from a woman into her own oocyte is between 3 and 5% (Hwang et al., 2004). The creation of customized gametes would be a less efficient process because additional factors, such as the age of a woman or heterologous nuclear transfer, may interfere with normal embryonic development."
19:14 < kanzure> from https://academic.oup.com/humrep/article/21/4/857/585575
19:14 < kanzure> "Evidence of a pluripotent human embryonic stem cell line derived from a cloned blastocyst" https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14963337
19:14 < kanzure> aww retracted.
19:15 < yashgaroth> he's in the department of ethics and there isn't a citation, so I assume speculation
19:15 < kanzure> eh? http://science.sciencemag.org/content/303/5664/1669.full
19:15 < kanzure> oh the other one.
19:16 < kanzure> well bummer.
19:16 < kanzure> i thought SCNT worked well enough
19:17 < kanzure> .title https://gizmodo.com/ceo-who-tested-diy-herpes-treatment-locks-himself-in-la-1822933670
19:17 < yoleaux> CEO Who Tested DIY Herpes Treatment Locks Himself in Lab as Fellow Biohackers Abandon Him
19:17 < yashgaroth> delicious
19:19 < yashgaroth> SCNT's not great, a lot of it is probably due to pulling out some random skin cell's nucleus
19:20 < yashgaroth> if you could source the nucleus from a germline stem cell then maaaybe it'd work better...but good enough for humans, I can't say
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19:22 < kanzure> https://www.facebook.com/tristan.roberts.5/videos/vb.1496193187/10216300242367471/?type=2&video_source=user_video_tab
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20:05 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=f74ab6d1 Bryan Bishop: transcript: ascendance biomeidcal dies >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/2018-02-11-ascendance-biomedical-update/
20:22 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=93466573 Bryan Bishop: small typo fix >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/2018-02-11-ascendance-biomedical-update/
21:07 < fenn> is there video of this? they had various documentary crews
21:07 < fenn> i'm basically wondering just what was going through his mind
21:07 < kanzure> unclear if the altercation was recorded by anyone
21:07 < fenn> like was he trying to prevent people from accessing "his" intellectual property or what?
21:07 < kanzure> crews might not have been there. depends on schedules.
21:07 < fenn> yeah but everyone has a camera nowadays
21:08 < kanzure> well it sounds like the team wanted to get him to agree to some new terms, and he paniced and decided to lock things down as much as he could
21:08 < yashgaroth> tristan seemed to imply the vice crew was there, dunno if aaron would need to sign a release or what
21:20 < fenn> "open source trade secrets"
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21:48 < kanzure> ok so here's an idea for centralized ledger systems. concern is that the operators do something bad (fraudulent).
21:49 < kanzure> clients are validating this data regularly, but if something "goes wrong" they can't really do anything except notice that something has gone wrong and kind of shrug because it's hard to convince all the clients to migrate to a new central operator (which one? how would everyone decide? etc.)
21:49 < kanzure> (and there are other concerns like "do all of the users really understand that the fraudulence was a real problem?")
21:50 < kanzure> if you could force all possible forms of fraud in this centralized ledger system to be entirely explicit forms of fraud only, then you could do the following to make clients capable of delaing with fraud perpetuated by the operator
21:50 < kanzure> *dealing with
21:51 < kanzure> specifically, you would make it a rule in the system that any coin can be spent either with a signature (and appropriate script that validates to true or whatever) or a new feature where any coin or all coins can be spent by giving a fraud proof
21:52 < kanzure> if you force all forms of fraud to be explicit-- such as, say, stealing someone's coins is a new entry in the ledger and its transaction type is "yo i'm stealing coins without authorization" with another field like "oh also here's the pubkey of the law enforcement officer that required this action" and the fraud proof proof-of-burn mechanism can force all coins to be immediately deposited to ...
21:52 < kanzure> ...that pubkey/address.
21:52 < kanzure> this would upset all of the users and they would have incentive to upgrade to wallets that ignore the fraudulent ledger entries
21:57 < kanzure> scorched earth approach
22:00 < kanzure> this would also require a fraud proof mechanism using a locally decodeable code to resist various forms of information withholding attacks (e.g. some threshold number of deputized auditors perhaps...) which admittedly isn't ideal.
22:04 < kanzure> (information withholding attacks are effective here because why would anyone doing fraudulent things want to give you sufficient information to prove fraud? but perhaps my "fraud only possible by being explicit" requirement is sufficient to fix this.)
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--- Log closed Tue Feb 13 00:00:51 2018