--- Log opened Wed Feb 14 00:00:24 2018
--- Day changed Wed Feb 14 2018
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07:26 < fenn> .title http://youtu.be/sKjAp0iZ7dc
07:26 < yoleaux> MetaLimbs: Multiple Arms Interaction Metamorphism (2017) - YouTube
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08:14 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/eboyden3/status/962775263854649344
08:14 < yoleaux> Recent publications from the group (e.g., expansion microscopy review, multipatching robots, repeated motifs of synaptic activity) have been posted here: http://syntheticneurobiology.org/publications (@eboyden3)
08:15 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/Addgene/status/961349483413102592
08:15 < yoleaux> New #Optogenetics AAV Vectors available via @eboyden3 including ArchT, Chrimson, Chronos and more. See new viral vectors at https://hubs.ly/H09XzNv0 https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DVdmQpUX0AEQ0jO.png (@Addgene)
08:17 < kanzure> can any of y'all convince me that mammalian brain emulation will have realistic human activity before it produces generic software with human-level cognitive ability?
08:17 < kanzure> in particular, i want someone to argue "extremely detailed emulation will be a requirement before we can really use mammalian brain diagrams and connectomes for creating artificial general intelligence"
08:18 < kanzure> there's a good argument to be made that "hey that's really martha in there"-level brain emulation will take significantly more resources than "take the good parts and just make AGI instances that definitely aren't martha but still human-level cognitive ability" would take in time/cost resources.
08:58 < archels> this is exacerbated by the human propensity to see spirits and will and what have you in lifeless things
08:59 < archels> I'm not sure if connectome maps will ever translate in an obvious way to a non-neural AI architecture, though
08:59 < archels> maybe in a boxes-and-arrows fashion at some level of abstraction
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09:00 < archels> re your initial question—just look at HBP's "cortical column" simulation. realistic mammalian neuronal activity, but it doesn't do anything "useful" yet
09:01 < kanzure> well that's because it's like less than 1 mm cubed of simulated network stuff
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09:08 < JayDugger> I don't think I could convince of you that, no. I imagine extremely detailed whole brain emulation as a sort of upper bound. I think Hanson and possibly Sandberg have laid out that argument in Age of Em and WBE, respectively and possibly Moravec in Mind Children and Robot, and possibly Hall in dammit...the book with the Kelly Freas cover.
09:08 < JayDugger> Beyond AI.
09:10 < JayDugger> I don't think that I understand your brain-emulation will produce "generic software with human-level cognitive ability" part.
09:11 < JayDugger> That seems to argue more about how technology will likely develop instead of what a particular technology might do.
09:11 < JayDugger> Why would anyone develop a biomimetic approach such as nervous system emulation to do arithmetic, for example?
09:14 < JayDugger> I suspect that as computers improve generally, the range of useful (perhaps even interesting) things at which humans still outperform a specialized machine will narrow.
09:15 < JayDugger> I expect that to happen at a rate which will fill the range of all human cognitive abilities before whole-brain emulation happens.
09:16 < JayDugger> At which point, WBE only remains useful as a heck of a laboratory trick.;)
09:17 < JayDugger> Only joking on that point, WBE of increasing fidelity will remain useful as a means of convincing people "that Martha really is in there."
09:17 < kanzure> arithmetic is not the defining factor of human-level cognitive ability.
09:19 < JayDugger> No, it isn't. Superhuman skill at arithmetic is cheap and ubiquitous in every calculator. Why would anyone model a nervous system for the sake of doing arithmetic?
09:20 < JayDugger> Did you mean "generic software with human-level cognitive ability" as not biomimetic?
09:20 < JayDugger> Sorry, as not biomemetic software?
09:21 < JayDugger> Or did you mean software capable of doing _every_ mental thing a human can do?
09:29 < kanzure> you are a confusion and i'm not sure what you're going on about; i think people could still call it "yeah it's martha in there" even if she is no longer able to do arithmetic. hell, people get strokes and can't do arithmetic anymore.
09:36 < JayDugger> We seem to talk past each other, yes. I don't think I can convince you, as I said. I expect some skeptical people would call an emulation that couldn't do arithmetic no better than a parrot. People who have suffered strokes or Alzheimer's at one point could do the whole range of normal human abilities, and more to the point, are human and so don't have to convince anyone that "they're still in there." (Yes, coma patients might be an exception.)
09:42 < kanzure> but you asked "Why would anyone develop a biomimetic approach such as nervous system emulation to do arithmetic, for example?"
09:43 < JayDugger> I mean that as an example of a particular human skill long surpassed by machinery that doesn't involve brain emulation. I expect that most such human mental skills can be surpassed by machinery that doesn't involve brain emulation.
09:45 < kanzure> archels: box-and-arrows isn't useless
09:45 < JayDugger> I take it now that you did not mean something similar with the pharse "generic software with human-level cognitive ability."
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10:01 < archels> who's Martha, by the way?
10:17 < nmz787> archels: she owns that big vineyard, I think
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10:26 < nmz787> maaku: ooo, yeah I'd definitely like to pick your brain, maybe in 8 hours or so
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10:41 < pompolic> small world. sitting right beside the dev of pcb-rnd. he knows about culture_shock
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11:25 < nmz787> what is pcb-rnd? random circuit board generator?
11:28 < nmz787> ah, gEDA fork
11:28 < nmz787> probably knew of culture_shock because the designer is using gEDA
11:28 < nmz787> not sure why he chose it over KiCad though
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15:35 < MrHindsight> nmz787: it's for people that only have to design easy boards
15:37 < MrHindsight> doesn't seem to be compatible with Cadence Allegro or Altium
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19:08 < kanzure> https://www.reddit.com/r/raspberry_pi/comments/5x7xbo/patch_for_mpeg2_vc1_license/
19:08 < kanzure> .title https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16379939
19:08 < yoleaux> MPEG-2 Patents Have Expired | Hacker News
19:35 < juul> i wrote a thing. it needs a lot more unit tests but here it is: https://github.com/biobricks/blast-level
19:36 < juul> it creates and auto-updates a BLAST database based on sequence data from a levelup database
19:37 < juul> which can be stored directly in the JSON as strings or be pathnames to files
19:37 < juul> it understands FASTA, GenBank and SBOL and auto-detects formats
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19:40 < juul> and has a simple (overly so right now) API for queries with streaming results
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--- Log closed Thu Feb 15 00:00:53 2018