--- Log opened Sat Feb 17 00:00:55 2018
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01:03 < nmz787> kanzure: wouldn't opiod downregulation send you into opiate withdrawl?
01:05 < nmz787> kanzure: i.e. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CE%9C-opioid_receptor#Deactivation
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08:08 < kanzure> https://www.technologyreview.com/s/610180/why-redesigning-the-humble-yeast-could-kick-off-the-next-industrial-revolution/
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08:57 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=4b7c55a6 Bryan Bishop: various fixes and links >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/2018-02-11-ascendance-biomedical-update/
08:57 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=99f1c7b5 Bryan Bishop: schnorr signatures recap link >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/blockchain-protocol-analysis-security-engineering/2018/schnorr-signatures-for-bitcoin-challenges-opportunities/
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10:13 < rkos> anyone know what are EU laws on GMO production? i assume it's not banned as long as it's not for human consumption?
10:16 < rkos> ive been dreaming of starting a small lab for bioreactor production of chemicals, is that insane?
10:21 < kanzure> i'm sure the regulations are more about products you sell, not whether your chemicals were produced by GMOs.
10:21 < kanzure> e.g., selling GMOs is more touchy subject
10:21 < rkos> yeah that seems reasonable
10:22 < rkos> i wonder what the capital requirements are for starting a biolab, i assume theres still a lot of red tape to starting one although that might depend on country
10:23 < rkos> my first thought would be estonia
10:26 < rkos> i might be able to collect like 30k eur without resorting to loans, do you think a lab that size could be profitable, my idea is basically just producing cosmetics and anything highly priced in the markets via GMOs, tbh i think itd be worth it to have such an asset even if it didnt turn a profit for a long while
10:30 < rkos> i might be able to collect a bit more than that if im lucky with some ppl, otherwise also it might be possible to get a loan but id probably need to prove its profitable for that
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11:09 < nmz787> rkos: you can setup a lab for <$500 and be profitable... it all depends on your goals and interests and abilities
11:10 < nmz787> rkos: from what I know, Europe isn't a very inviting place for doing anything GMO... even to make your own GMO you need to be licensed
11:12 < rkos> whats the licensing process like?
11:12 < rkos> and what about outside of europe i guess i should look into getting citizenship somewhere else then?
11:15 < rkos> its my longest running dream i think to have a bacteria farm, i dont know how to get started on realizing it tho
11:19 < nmz787> no idea, ask Cathal Garvey
11:20 < nmz787> (re licensing)
11:20 < nmz787> in the U.S. we can do whatever we want
11:20 < nmz787> as long as it isn't heroin, basically
11:34 < rkos> so i should find an US citizen to help me or become one?
11:34 < rkos> but i gotta look more into the licensing issues here tho
11:35 < rkos> its probably hellish but it might not be impossible
11:35 < nmz787> I'm sure Cathal will writeup some info
11:35 < nmz787> I'd say ask on the DIYbio google group
11:36 < rkos> ill check it out
11:38 < kanzure> https://groups.google.com/group/diybio
11:48 < rkos> i posted there but i cant see my post anywhere
12:18 < kanzure> seems to be in my inbox.
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12:40 < streety> you don't need to be a citizen somewhere to live and work there
12:40 < streety> not sure what the $500 claim is based on
12:40 < streety> what's the product?
12:40 < nmz787> could be oyster mushrooms
12:41 < streety> does that need a lab?
12:41 < streety> also not GMO presumably and rkos was talking about not for human consumption
12:41 < nmz787> sure, you gotta prep media for spawn expansion (I think that's what it's called)
12:42 < nmz787> keeping your strains clean with subculture
12:42 < nmz787> growing spores up to test for vigour and then selection
12:43 < nmz787> I guess it depends also if you're considering consumables in that $500
12:43 < nmz787> or only equipment
12:43 < streety> Perhaps we have different concepts for what a lab is.
12:44 < rkos> yeah im not sure on the exact products yet should gather a list and run tests on whats profitable
12:44 < streety> is there idea to develop improved oyster mushrooms or produce them?
12:45 < streety> that seems like to best approach. Consider options for what you want to achieve, identify the steps needed for a few and then plan from there
12:45 < nmz787> they're a GRAS workhorse, grow on cheap relatively feedstock... but in general it was just an example
12:45 < rkos> i was thinking some chemicals used in cosmetics & pharmaceutics industries
12:45 < nmz787> streety: sterile technique is best learned with a $50 lab IMO... you learn to really know when to be paranoid, and don't invest much $$.
12:46 < superkuh> Try searching "hairy root bioreactor secondary" for ideas.
12:47 < rkos> i have this https://fairy.life/pdf/318_41920a.pdf
12:48 < rkos> im personally not too knowledgeable in laboratory technique but i might have some friends who know more
12:51 < rkos> oh the research centre mentioned on the wiki of hairy root technique is local
12:52 < nmz787> sterile air box is a cheap (clear) plastic "storage" tub from any department store, maybe $10 or $15... then some glass canning jars, some x-acto knives or scalpels, some potatoes and some agar from an asian store, some glucose (dextrose) from a commercial food supplier, and $0.50 worth of fresh mushroom from the grocery store
12:52 < nmz787> oh, and pressure cooker
12:53 < rkos> what about the legalities does the place of the lab need to follow some regulations
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14:20 < kanzure> leveraged pre-orders hmmm
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17:16 < juul> rkos: if you don't get govt funding, don't have staff, are in the U.S. and don't sell anything then the only laws i am aware of are EPA legislation on environmental release
17:17 < rkos> im in the EU
17:17 < juul> but we all try to follow CDC guidelines for the appropriate biosafety level
17:18 < rkos> and what if you sell products?
17:18 < juul> Then your country will have an implementation of the EU GM directives and you will need your lab to be certified by some governmental agency
17:18 < juul> Talk to your local government
17:19 < juul> and selling GM products in the E.U. is generally very hard to impossible
17:21 < rkos> but id think it would be different for products that dont contain GMO but just some byproduct of a GMO
17:21 < rkos> but is there a differentiation?
17:21 < Jenda_> rkos: for example in .cz it is illegal to produce _any_ GMO (including things like GFP ecoli) if you don't have BSL-somenumber lab supervised by a person with a degree in the required field; the fines are IIRC up to $100k for persons and $250k for companies
17:21 < Jenda_> this is unfortunately a blocker for most hackerspace-run biolabs :(
17:22 < rkos> well what if you hire a person with the required degree
17:23 < Jenda_> yeah, of course it's possible, but it really raises the entry barrier
17:26 < rkos> i wonder what its like in estonia
17:26 < rkos> or finland for that matter
17:29 < Jenda_> I'm afraid this will be EU-wide
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19:22 < Hooloovo0> you just need a hacker with that degree, right?
19:24 < rkos> im asking a friend who might know such ppl
19:25 < rkos> i do know a biochemist though i could ask him
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21:51 < juul> Jenda_: the per country implementations differ a lot. Ireland is easy
21:52 < juul> rkos: yes gmo-produced products are allowed in the e.u. most of the world's rennet is produced this way in the e.u.
21:53 < juul> Also, you can do gmo as long as you don't move genes between different species :)
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23:29 < rkos> cool, i emailed the local authorities ill see if they answer
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--- Log closed Sun Feb 18 00:00:56 2018