--- Log opened Tue Mar 13 00:00:18 2018
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02:41 < archels> .title https://turingchurch.net/cryonics-for-uploaders-the-brain-preservation-prize-has-been-won-cebbe98c241a
02:41 < yoleaux> Cryonics for uploaders: The Brain Preservation Prize has been won
02:42 < archels> kanzure: apparently not, but note that these viruses have a lot of their replicating machinery cut out, and they've probably been selected with the specific goal in mind of being comparatively focal
02:46 < archels> “Let that sink in… ASC, if properly applied TODAY, could preserve the information content of a human brain for indefinitely-long storage.”
02:46 < archels> various interesting tidbits in that article. "The BPF will NEVER become a service provider."
02:46 < archels> (Brain Preservation Foundation)
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03:01 < archels> hmm, do we know https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hannu_Rajaniemi ?
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03:35 < fenn> if cracks are such a problem, why doesn't alcor use liquid methane instead of nitrogen? surely bagging the bodies in teflon or aluminized mylar isn't that expensive
03:37 < fenn> and may not be necessary even
03:38 < fenn> alternatively they could pressurize the liquid nitrogen during the cooling process to raise its boiling point
03:38 < fenn> slowly lowering the temperature should prevent cracking or at least reduce it
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03:45 < fenn> hello wrldpc1
03:45 < wrldpc1> hey, fenn :)
04:14 < fenn> there is an even cheaper method of reaching arbitrary low temperatures above liquid nitrogen temperature, that's putting a thermally conductive box in the vapors above the liquid nitrogen to even out the temperature gradient in the gas, which goes from -100C to -196C
04:15 < fenn> or adding a small heater to an insulated box surrounded by liquid nitrogen
04:28 < fenn> "Despite some attempts to avoid fracturing over the last decade, some including months of annealing, acoustic data indicated that fracturing was still occurring during descent to target intermediate storage temperatures."
04:30 < fenn> it may be possible though with some program of going over and under the glass transition temperature so that everything transitions at about the same time: http://www.alcor.org/Library/images/Figure-7.gif
04:32 < fenn> well that was a decade ago
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06:17 < maaku> <fenn> slowly lowering the temperature should prevent cracking or at least reduce it <-- that's what they do
06:17 < maaku> they've largely eliminated cracks. read the after reports
06:18 < fenn> i looked but didn't find any later reports
06:18 < maaku> every single suspension they've done is reported
06:18 < fenn> oh i thought you meant research reports
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06:31 < kanzure> http://www.brainpreservation.org/large-mammal-announcement/
06:50 < JayDugger> fenn, I expect, but don't know, that liquid methane requires more care and expense than liquid nitrogen. One's a rocket fuel, bluntly.
06:50 < JayDugger> Anyone with, you know, actual experience in cryogenic liquid bulk handling feel free to speak up.
06:51 < fenn> the electrical temperature control method is better in every way
06:51 < JayDugger> Huh. I thought he was South Asian, not Finnish.
06:51 < fenn> who?
06:52 < JayDugger> Hannu Rajaniemi.
06:52 < JayDugger> Shows what I know.
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06:52 < fenn> how about that
06:53 < fenn> sounded like an indian name to me
06:54 < kanzure> "Vitrifying the connectomic self: A case for developing aldehyde-stabilized cryopreservation into a medical procedure" http://www.brainpreservation.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/vitrifyingtheconnectomicself_hayworth.pdf
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06:57 < kanzure> hmm actually i think it's sort of a mistake to mention brain uploading so early in that article, especially if he wants to convince mainstream scientists
06:58 < fenn> hannu rajaniemi's company: https://www.helixnano.com/vector-engineer/
06:58 < kanzure> also, the ultimate goal of brain fixation doesn't /necessarily/ need to be brain uploading and brain emulation, you can actually get away with just looking at memories which can be a curious family keepsake (i mean they keep fido the dog stuffed and on the wall anyway)
07:01 < fenn> that argument leads to bad preservation techniques
07:01 < kanzure> for memory?
07:02 < fenn> i don't really see any difference between memory preservation and "uploading"
07:02 < fenn> just a matter of when you do it
07:02 < fenn> sooner or later
07:03 < kanzure> or what you do with the data i guess. hrm.
07:04 < kanzure> so, people might have unreasonably high expectations about what "uploading" is going to look like.   if it quacks like a duck but it's only barely a duck, that might be okay with me. but others might want an extremely fast highly interactive face looking back at them and responding in real-time.  slow-time brain emulation is much more likely.
07:05 < kanzure> okay yeah i admit it's sort of stupid to conflate memory preservation, brain emulation, and brain uploading, all of these are different things
07:06 < kanzure> uploading should be considered data transfer only
07:06 < kanzure> otherwise we're fucking around with words and the oxford police will be after us
07:06 < TMA> words are important with respect to the effect they have on humans -- 'rapid unscheduled disassembly' is a term used instead of 'explosion' precisely because it is different to humans
07:07 < kanzure> no it's really dumb to use the word "upload" for anything other than data transfer
07:09 < TMA> the damage has already been done for the 'brain upload' collocation; in the same manner that 'high school' does not describe a school that happens to be over some height threshold
07:10 < fenn> he means separate the concepts of preservation and acquiring information from the preserved sample
07:10 < fenn> you can preserve something and then not do anything with it
07:11 < fenn> this is already what the words mean though
07:12 < kanzure> i'm confused as to what you think the popular definition currently is
07:12 < kanzure> i think the popular version might actually be ambiguous
07:13 < fenn> preservation usually means dunk it in a vat of formaldehyde and hope for the best, but in this context you're aiming for doing detailed electron microscopy eventually
07:14 < fenn> they should probably come up with a better phrase than "aldehyde stabilized cryopreservation" since clearly there's some extra secret sauce
07:14 < fenn> also it's not actually cryo- (?)
07:14 < fenn> i'm out of swap space
07:15 < kanzure> also, i am formalizing my conjecture about mammalian brains into a rule of "conservation of cognitive architecture": most brains in the animal kingdom are most likely using the same cognitive architecture tricks, and most mammalian brains are universally all the same architecture except for some minor tweaks between species.
07:16 < TMA> fenn: I have read that ethanol is better than formaldehyde for preservation -- formaldehyde caused DNA degradation in 19th century samples of now extinct animals, while ethanol preserved samples were usable for sequencing
07:17 < fenn> DNA isn't what you're attempting to preserve
07:18 < fenn> see, this is why i think you should have the goal of uploading in mind when deciding on preservation techniques
07:19 < fenn> it's unlikely, but we may discover that epigenetics encodes 99% of memory content in the brain. if that were to happen, you'd want to change preservation techniques
07:23 < fenn> an alternative goal one could argue for is reanimation of the preserved tissue
07:24 < fenn> this would have its own preferred preservation technique
07:24 < kanzure> zayner digs himself into a hole by commenting on a court case https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10103249771798437&set=a.873960249867.2304067.37602560&type=3&theater
07:25 < kanzure> https://www.jefftk.com/p/whole-brain-emulation-and-nematodes
07:26 < kanzure> https://nectome.com/ is updated
07:26 < kanzure> omg what a bad website
07:28 < kanzure> https://turingchurch.net/cryonics-for-uploaders-the-brain-preservation-prize-has-been-won-cebbe98c241a
07:28 < kanzure> (comment from ken hayworth included)
07:28 < fenn> i hope the judge penalizes traywick for wasting their time with a frivolous lawsuit
07:30 < fenn> is that even a thing? it should be
07:30 < kanzure> $250,000,000.00
07:32 < kanzure> maaku: i think we should work on a shared doc either on diyhpl.us wiki or somewhere else (whatever) for collecting near-term commercial applications of molecular nanotechnology
07:32 < kanzure> maaku: i think that the most likely easiest lowest-hangiest-fruitiest areas are likely to be related to nanoparticles and nanopores
07:33 < kanzure> i think you need to be thinking of things that happen *before* yer "simple diamondoid rods, gears, buckytubes, etc. at the NEMS scale"
07:33 < kanzure> synthetic viruses would also be a good area to look at in this department (although actual viruses are probably easier and cheaper to construct)
07:34 < fenn> we can already make bulk diamond (plates and boules) but it's fairly expensive, so maybe you should define a cost per kg
07:35 < kanzure> my assumption for the early days of molecular nanotechnology are that we're going to be limited by the available tech: it's probably going to be an atomic force microscope that moves atoms around, and therefore you can only make very small structures very slowly. large-scale repeating patterns are going to be extremely expensive.
07:36 < fenn> but you can parallelize repeating patterns
07:36 < fenn> did you mean non-repeating patterns?
07:36 < kanzure> parallel AFM tips? i mean what spacing are you talking about. hard to cram a billion AFM tips into the same millimeter space.
07:36 < fenn> is it?
07:37 < kanzure> i haven't actually checked.
07:37 < kanzure> in old hplusroadmap logs, we did briefly go over a list of initial commercial applications of diamondoid nanotechnology things.
07:37 < fenn> that's 31 nm between tips, which is probably too narrow for most fab processes
07:38 < fenn> but a million ought to be easy :P
07:39 < kanzure> 23:40 < maaku> kanzure: well there's everything Freitas has written about nanomedicine. but do you mean conventional things done better? there's drexler's rough estimates of the mechanical properties of macro-scale lightweight diamondoid materials. nanosystems ch. 2, and 11
07:39 < kanzure> 23:40 < maaku> speaking of drexler he's up your alley as he's been pursuing DNA approaches to nanotech. I haven't kept up on that
07:39 < kanzure> 23:41 < maaku> or do you mean things that can be done with protein molecules?
07:39 < kanzure> 18:50 < kanzure> maaku: do you have a good overview/list of things that can be done if you had magical ability to make many different types of molecular shapes? e.g. not complete control over protein shape but some pretty good control like sheets, coils, rings, etc.
07:39 < kanzure> 18:52 < kanzure> i think you might have a list like that for diamondoid molecular nanotechnology stuff... you mentioned "extremely low mass tools" (like even hammers etc)
07:41 < kanzure> 15:37 < kanzure> instead of using diamondoid mechanosynthesis you could use ribosomes to construct fusion proteins and protein subunits that form atomically-precise mechanical machinery
07:42 < kanzure> 08:40 < kanzure> maaku: have you been exposed to the "molecular biology and cells are already self-replicating nanotechnology and we should be using that instead of employing fantasies of diamondoid mechanosynthesis" line of reasoning before?
07:42 < fenn> diamond is apparently an interesting semiconductor with good thermal properties
07:42 < fenn> that's an entire industry right there
07:44 < kanzure> heard an interesting idea yesterday about nanoparticles with aptamers (or other binding methods) that get exposed to human blood during centrifugation, and then measure magnetic resonance of the blood tube to detect specific antigens based on coagulation/clumping of the nanoparticles and whatever they were meant to detect.
07:45 < kanzure> there are many exotic nanoparticle things with behaviorial properties that we haven't really exploited. is why i mention nanoparticles as first use case for mechanosynthesis things.
07:46 < kanzure> super hard to twist my head into mechanosynthesis land tho... for example, it might be the case that a single nanofactory or even a single nanomechanical "gear and other thing" could perform an economically valuable task, and you don't need to build a multi-AFM to construct endlessly repeating expensive nanopatterns.
07:46 < fenn> wow there are 25mm single crystal diamond wafers for sale commercially
07:48 < kanzure> with AFM atom placement manufacturing stuff, you could probably build extremely precise electronic circuits for measurements of temperature or whatever... would be popular in physics labs.
07:48 < kanzure> this seems like a question for xentrac. where is xentrac.
07:48 < kanzure> is he still living in a mud hut? or was that fenn?
07:48 < fenn> i wish
07:58 < fenn> cool page on diamond electronic devices http://www.evincetechnology.com/applications.html http://www.evincetechnology.com/techoverview.html
08:11 < kanzure> "Multi-electrode array recording and data analysis methods for molluscan central nervous systems" http://sro.sussex.ac.uk/43341/1/Passaro,_Peter_A..pdf
08:20 < kanzure> clements is doing "exosome parabiosis stuff" "in gainesville, florida"
08:20 < kanzure> http://www.betterhumans.org/team.html
08:20 < kanzure> https://www.fightaging.org/archives/2017/11/a-profile-of-james-clements-supercentenarian-research/
08:24 < fenn> "full genetic sequences of some three dozen genomes of North American, Caribbean, and European supercentenarians being made available this week by a nonprofit called Betterhumans"
08:25 < kanzure> iirc there have already been studies on at least centenarians and that's where i found the longevity genes for http://diyhpl.us/wiki/genetic-modifications/
08:25 < kanzure> such as,
08:25 < kanzure> "Genome-wide association meta-analysis of human longevity identifies a novel locus conferring survival beyond 90 years of age" https://academic.oup.com/hmg/article/23/16/4420/625655/Genome-wide-association-meta-analysis-of-human
08:26 < kanzure> and https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms15842 "A recent extreme longevity study[18] found four novel associated protective alleles near CDKN2B/ANRIL (rs4977756-G), SH2B3/ATXN2 (rs3184504-G), ABO (rs514659-A) and HLA (rs3763305-A). Remarkably, the first two variants replicated in our analysis with (one-sided) P values P=4.34 × 10^−6, P=1.08 × 10^−3, P=0.03, P=0.51, respectively."
08:26 < kanzure> not the strongest p values i guess....
08:26 < fenn> better than goop
08:27 < kanzure> what am i supposed to do with a low number of supercentenarian genomes?
08:27 < fenn> clone them
08:28 < kanzure> hm. yeah i guess the "do lots of GWAS studies" approach is sort of stupid when you can just actively clone people instead of trying to get creative about picking out single genetic elements that may or may not be the right selections.
08:29 < fenn> problem is the experiment takes >110 years
08:30 < TMA> accelerate the planet to near light speed, then decelerate, while leaving the subject behind to age faster
08:31 < fenn> and blow up the moon while you're at it
08:32 < kanzure> i think blowing up the moon would provide a very small temporal slowdown
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09:11 < kanzure> .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejIKy5R4uGM
09:11 < yoleaux> Aldehyde-Stabilized Cryopreservation is Cryonics for Uploaders - YouTube
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09:25 < maaku> kanzure: collaboration on a MNT market research doc would be welcome
09:25 < maaku> things like "nanoparticles and nanopores" are stuff I don't know much about, tbh
09:26 < kanzure> what are your assumptions about initial mechanosynthesis capabilities?
09:27 < kanzure> including throughput and cost
09:27 < kanzure> and number of atoms and work area
09:27 < kanzure> and time
09:28 < maaku> although regarding your suggestion to think of things before "simple diamondoid rods, gears, buckytubes, etc.", in my imagined Merkle-Freitas derived approach to MNT the very first assemblers are going to basically be constructing and extruding nanotubes or adamantine rods
09:30 < maaku> fenn: there's a great CCC talk about quantum computers (using voids in a diamond lattice) where the speaker pulls out a gigantic diamond from his pocket he made in his lab
09:31 < maaku> tells a humorous anecdote about taking it to a jewler to get polished
09:31 < maaku> kanzure: I'd have to find my copy of nanosystems. I've trusted drexler's scaling equations
09:32 < maaku> although now that I'm more competent than I was many years ago I should probably go back and rederive those to verify
09:33 < maaku> (And my book is not nearby, but I seem to recall trillions of synthesis operations per second in late stage production, millions or billions for systems that are relying on random diffusion to receive parts like early systems would be
09:35 < fenn> .title http://youtu.be/DpNI16U_zKY
09:35 < yoleaux> Nicolas Wöhrl: Diamonds are a quantum computer’s best friend - YouTube
09:35 < maaku> I think that's the one
09:36 < maaku> Basically the first, simplest thing I can think to make that would be commercially useful is something which takes a chemical feedstock on one side (C2O2 most likely) and repeatedly adds carbon dimers to an extruding nanotube
09:37 < fenn> 46 minutes in he shows the diamond
09:37 < maaku> Merkle-Freitas's minimal toolset paper shows the reactions necessary to do this
09:38 < maaku> fenn: so I don't know much more about diamond lattice based quantum computers than what is in this talk, and his paper which I briefly skimmed, but it seems that this too would be an early application of a MNT proto-technology
09:38 < maaku> since the number of qubits he can work with seems to be chiefly limited by his ability to place voids in diamonds at atomicly precise distances
09:39 < maaku> heck you might even be able to solve that today with good AFM techniques and a slower more controlled form of chemical vapor deposition
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09:41 < maaku> kanzure: the mintoolset paper shows the reactions and tooltips necessary for MNT contstruction of nanotubes. if we can get the tooltips embedded in, say, coiled DNA or proteins structures that move with angstrom-level precision
09:42 < maaku> then we could have a nanotube-extruder. I think that has value, but I'm not sure what for. (better electronics? materials science?)
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09:59 < fenn> "don't put all your eggs in one dewar"
10:00 < fenn>   - pacific fertility
10:03 < fenn> you'd think they would have redundant automated dewar monitoring
10:04 < fenn> there's $5 million worth of eggs in there
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10:08 < kanzure> i think they probably did have redundant monitoring and redudnant ln2? maybe not..
10:08 < kanzure> sms messages upon failure, and pagerduty notifications, and all the other things.
10:09 < kanzure> it might even make sense to hire low-skilled labor to physically sit there and address problems that happen only once every year or whatever
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10:18 < fenn> "the latest problem was discovered by the clinic’s laboratory director, who noticed during a routine check that the level of liquid nitrogen in one of the clinic’s steel storage tanks had fallen too low"
10:19 < kanzure> https://www.technologyreview.com/s/610456/a-startup-is-pitching-a-mind-uploading-service-that-is-100-percent-fatal/amp/
10:30 < kanzure> fenn: that's awful. what?
10:30 < kanzure> aren't these sensors cheap?
10:30 < fenn> yes
10:30 < fenn> it's possible their sensor or alarm system failed
10:30 < kanzure> fail-safe systems fail by failing to fail safe
10:30 < fenn> i agree
10:31 < fenn> all too often people get away with this crap by being apologetic
10:31 < fenn> "a terrible national tragedy that our flying death trap exploded and killed 7 astronauts, my thoughts are with the family"
10:31 < kanzure> and now we're going into weird stuff like "maybe they wont report future problems due to backlash"
10:32 < fenn> yeah they could just be like "we don't know why your IVF isn't working" and nobody would be any wiser
10:32 < fenn> but it's better for business to not make problems for yourself
10:32 < kanzure> "you're simply too incomprehensibly infertile for modern technology, sorry!"
10:33 < fenn> victim blaming 101
10:33 < kanzure> "my thoughts are with the family, but perhaps you guys should have been more supportive and sending more best wishes to the astronauts and be better patriots for god's sake"
10:34 < fenn> all you have to do is listen to your engineers
10:34 < fenn> if they say something is unsafe, it's worth fixing it
10:41 < fenn> wow nectome has already preserved a human brain
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11:19 < fenn> .wik david rorvik
11:19 < yoleaux> "David Michael Rorvik (born 1944) is an American journalist and novelist who was the author of the 1978 book In his Image: The Cloning of a Man in which he claimed to have been part of a successful endeavor to create a clone of a human being." — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Rorvik
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11:24 < fenn> https://archive.org/stream/InHisImageRorvikFinal.omedBw/In%20His%20Image%20Rorvik%20Final.omed%20bw_djvu.txt
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11:44 < kanzure> https://www.cibolo.com/docs/culture_shock_v0.5_proto_scrnprt-5.jpg
11:44 < kanzure> https://www.cibolo.com/docs/culture_shock_v0.5_proto_scrnprt-2.jpg
11:44 < kanzure> https://www.cibolo.com/docs/culture_shock_v0.5_proto_scrnprt-3.jpg
11:46 < fenn> push the flower button for macro mode
11:46 < kanzure> not my camera
11:46 < fenn> yeah i'm just amazed people still don't know how to take photographs in 2018
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12:55 < fenn> "everyone can be an X-man"
12:55 < fenn> i like the idea but the phrasing is sort of off
13:08 < razzy> fenn: how much do you believe in 1944 cloning :]
13:10 < fenn> 1974
13:10 < fenn> not at all
13:10 < fenn> but there is probably already a human clone or several in this world
13:11 < fenn> the raelians are super into it, and the koreans have technical ability to do it for a price
13:31 < kanzure> i think the raelians would be jumping up and down saying "see?! we really did it!" if they did it.
13:32 < kanzure> especially after the lawsuit
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14:05 < JayDugger> @maaku Scaling laws are in chapter 2 of Nanosystems. I have my copy at hand.
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14:27 < kanzure> https://crisprcon.org/
14:27 < kanzure> in boston june 4-5th
14:36 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/965974828409749506
14:36 < yoleaux> "Process of Elimination"--outstanding feature on #CRISPR gene drives, by @Emma_Marris https://www.wired.com/story/crispr-eradicate-invasive-species/ @WIRED https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DWfTn-yU0AAKtDb.jpg https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DWfU5xcVMAIaAKf.jpg (@EricTopol)
14:37 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/biochemsec2030/status/948650770949435397
14:37 < yoleaux> A trove of emails were released last year on DARPA investment into gene-drives following FOI requests. All available here. http://genedrivefiles.synbiowatch.org/ (@biochemsec2030)
14:37 < kanzure> .title http://genedrivefiles.synbiowatch.org/
14:37 < yoleaux> Gene Drive Files
14:37 < kanzure> hmph
14:38 < kanzure> https://medium.com/@CRVVC/recursion-pharmaceuticals-ai-enhanced-drug-discovery-fdb8d7aad64c
14:39 < fenn> why does the military care about gene drives?
14:40 < fenn> are they going to secretly upgrade us all into super soldiers?
14:41 < fenn> hey it's dylan morris
14:45 < kanzure> yea i guess dylan is a venture capitalist now.
14:45 < kanzure> he followed me on twitter so i went to look at what he's up to
14:45 < kanzure> i think the concern about gene drives is really basic biowarfare stuff like how do we kill the mosquitoes
14:46 < fenn> but like, why is that the military's job
14:46 < fenn> is everything really that underfunded
14:46 < fenn> shouldn't the UN be doing this
14:46 < fenn> or like, USDA
14:47 < kanzure> animal testing update: "had interesting results with magnetofection + [dog] sperm"
14:47 < kanzure> and: "... It does make some of the sperm cells slightly magnetic but doesn't show much under the microscope."
14:50 < fenn> "There is no way this technology could be used for any military purpose. The general interest is in developing systems to contain the undesired effects of gene drives."
14:50 < kanzure> w-what?
14:51 < fenn> the logic there is pretty bogus
14:51 < fenn> we developed gene drives so we can defend against the undesired effects of gene drives
14:51 < fenn> ok
14:56 < fenn> why don't gene drives exist in nature? we should at least see evidence for them having existed
14:57 < fenn> maybe there's some quirk of population genetics that makes it not actually work
14:58 < fenn> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNA%C2%B2#Plot
14:59 < fenn> hypothesis confirmed: DARPA gets all its ideas from anime
14:59 < kanzure> that's certainly where i'm sourcing all my crap from.
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15:03 < kanzure> looool what is this "At the root of the problem is a family of "Mega-Playboys": people with sexual charisma and impulses that lead each of them to have 100 children that carry the Mega-Playboy DNA, causing them and all their descendants to each have 100 children as well. All this started with a single Mega-Playboy, whom Karin has travelled back into the past to deal with."
15:03 < fenn> also they are all male
15:03 < kanzure> "Karin reveals to Junta that she is a "DNA Operator". Her job is to make alterations in people's DNA that will change their nature for the greater good of society. She intends to shoot the original Mega-Playboy with a DCM ("DNA Control Medicine") bullet that will alter his DNA in order to relieve him of his mega-playboy qualities, thus preventing the overpopulation problem from ever ...
15:03 < kanzure> ...happening."
15:04 < fenn> really it should be that the mega-playboys are female..
15:05 < kanzure> maybe we should go figure out those mutations and then deploy it in china as an exercise in social justice or whatever.
15:05 < fenn> hum such a difficult decision
15:06 < kanzure> (due to the one-child policy that china imposed for years)
15:06 < fenn> fembots vs genetically engineered super hot asian women
15:06 < kanzure> fenn: well, the argument is that people have underestimated the planet's human population carrying capacity.
15:06 < fenn> i really can't decide
15:08 < fenn> "By shooting Junta with the wrong DCM bullet, Karin actually created him!" and now you know the true origin story of DARPA's logic loop
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15:11 < fenn> with the war on radical islam winding down, the military industrial complex looks around for a new enemy. finding nothing suitable, they create a fictional class of genetic terrorists, which must be protected against at all costs, or at least enough to keep our defense contractors happy
15:12 < fenn> 9/11 part 2 coming soon to an ecology near you!
15:14 < kanzure> wait am i the genetic terrorist?
15:22 < fenn> yes
15:22 < fenn> you'll have to up your game, and naturally the necessary funding will be provided
15:23 < fenn> don't wait for the BAA, submit your terror plan today!
15:24 < kanzure> IARPA BAA came out a few days ago actually, i've been meaning to draft a proposal
15:24 < kanzure> http://www.righto.com/2018/03/implementing-fizzbuzz-on-fpga.html
15:25 < kanzure> and https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16578208
15:26 < fenn> meh
15:26 < fenn> "I made an LED blink!" FPGA redux
15:26 < nmz787> FPGA r hard
15:27 < fenn> it's not even a platform i want to use, because artificial encumbrances
15:31 < CaptHindsight> engineer mosquitoes to only bite other mosquitoes
15:35 < kanzure> "3d printed surgical instruments: The design and fabrication process" https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27822724
15:35 < kanzure> .title https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16575898
15:35 < yoleaux> The US Marines' Love Affair with 3D Printing | Hacker News
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16:15 < fenn> "When you're deployed and something important breaks, you have a BIG problem. The impact is usually somewhere between you being absolutely miserable for weeks to costing you your life. When you're stateside and something important breaks, you have a reason to expand your empire at next year's budget meeting."
16:15 < fenn> this is why we need to build a civilization on mars
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16:31 < razzy>  will they fund your evil plans just to have an enemy to scare public?
16:32 < razzy> awesome politics :]
16:48 < kanzure> typical reaction comments https://www.reddit.com/r/nottheonion/comments/8465f2/a_startup_is_pitching_a_minduploading_service
16:48 < andytoshi> well, it is /r/nottheonion
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16:59 < kanzure> it's reddit and therefore terrible.
17:04 < fenn> if you release a gene drive you have to call it "the krogan genophage"
17:08 < kanzure> varaxian LM-7
17:10 < fenn> looks tasty https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/images/1/18/Biogenic_weapons.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20050903201727&path-prefix=en
17:31 < jrayhawk> kanzure: http://www.anti-agingfirewalls.com/2018/03/11/double-gene-knockout-behind-obesity-epidemic/ proposes that the selective pressure to kill off L-gulonolactone oxidase was literally the metabolic syndrome (conferring a cold-weather survival advantage)
17:35 < fenn> fwiw this is not a new theory
17:36 < fenn> oh heh by james watson
17:37 < kanzure> uhrm well let's just add that back in
17:37 < fenn> full steam ahead
17:37 < fenn> it's not like there's a guinea pig
17:37 < fenn> guinea pig
17:38 < fenn> how do i even search for whether someone has done it in guinea pigs
17:40 < kanzure> "Intragenic deletion in the gene encoding l-gulonolactone oxidase causes vitamin C deficiency in pigs" https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00335-003-2324-6
17:41 < fenn> i don't see any papers claiming to have done a gulonolactone oxidase knock-in in guinea pigs
17:45 < fenn> http://www.renovalife.com/Genome%20Editing_flyer.pdf "To our knowledge, RLI. is the only company providing transgenic rabbit and guinea pig
17:49 < kanzure> .title https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2018-March/015817.html
17:49 < yoleaux> [bitcoin-dev] Data structure for efficient proofs of non-inclusion
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19:00 < kanzure> DataPacRat: what is this https://docs.google.com/document/d/1nRSRWbAqtC48rPv5NG6kzggL3HXSJ1O93jFn3fgu0Rs/edit
19:00 < DataPacRat> kanzure: A story-like object.
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19:04 < kanzure> "We're even more liberal with the concept of identity in society -- consider that I share nearly nothing (physical or memory) with 1-day old me, yet we are considered the same person."
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19:31 < heath> "A startup is pitching a mind-uploading service that is '100 percent fatal'" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16577627
19:32 < kanzure> it's the pokemon yellow total control guy.
19:32 < kanzure> http://aurellem.org/vba-clojure/html/total-control.html
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21:21 < CaptHindsight> Stephen Hawking dies aged 76
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