--- Log opened Wed Apr 25 00:00:59 2018
00:07 < fenn> adlai: the tensile strength of the thinnest nanotubes are predicted to be 126GPa, and larger ones are weaker per unit area. when nested, the outer layers break first, so the result of nesting would be to trade density for toughness, unless you figure out some way to attach the inner layers to the outer layers without compromising their integrity somehow (some dissolved inert atom perhaps)
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00:08 < fenn> the "shadow wire" so named because it constrained large "shadow squares" aka solar orbit solar panels seems totally unnecessary to me
00:13 < fenn> objects in motion remain in motion, so unless perturbed the solar panels will happily stay in their orbit
00:13 < fenn> on the other hand, with such a large surface area the varying solar output will give varying amounts of impulse per unit time in the form of radiation pressure and solar wind
00:15 < fenn> i'd expect any type II civilization to know how to rotate their solar panels to direct that force and maintain the desired orbit
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01:39 < adlai> fenn: did you read the tanj text!? it explains exactly why they're needed.
01:43 < adlai> anyway my gut tells me you gotta bunchle sic: seven nanotubes, each as narrow as possible while still trapping a single row of some heavy almost-inert atoms in the middle, with voodoo juju binding them together using sigma-like orbitals extending between the inner atoms of adjacent strands
01:43  * adlai will probably understand why the gut is wrong once he learns a little more qm, qed, qcd, etc
01:54 < fenn> it's been more than several years since i read ringworld
01:55 < fenn> sigma orbitals are above my paygrade
01:57 < fenn> is it just a bond orbital?
01:59 < fenn> i read that functionalizing nanotubes degrades their strength because of the missing bonds in the nanotube proper. it seems like linking the nanotubes would have the same problem
01:59 < fenn> maybe you can substitute sulfur or something with more bonds
02:00 < fenn> something else with more bonds
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02:09 < fenn> "weak shear interactions between adjacent shells and tubes lead to significant reduction in the effective strength of multi-walled carbon nanotubes and carbon nanotube bundles down to only a few GPa. This limitation has been recently addressed by applying high-energy electron irradiation, which crosslinks inner shells and tubes, and effectively increases the strength of these materials to 60 GPa
02:09 < fenn> for multi-walled carbon nanotubes and 17 GPa for double-walled carbon nanotube bundles."
02:10 < fenn> well i guess 17GPa is better than 13GPa (SWNT lowest value)
02:10 < fenn> it's not anywhere near twice as much though
02:15 < adlai> according to my pay grade, the graphene sheets have a chickenwire-shaped pi orbital covering each side. a sufficiently precise sigma orbital could be threaded between these, provided that whatever focuses the electronium doesn't totally fuckup the pi system.
02:16  * adlai obviously needs to think more with portals before he tries weaving orbitals
02:17 < fenn> you could have larger holes with a reinforced built up edge
02:17 < adlai> btw sigma orbitals are ones that have continuous rotational symmetry around the bond axis, whereas pi orbitals have discretized rotational symmetry
02:18 < adlai> so the extra orbitals in double and triple bonds are pi, whereas pretty much any commonly encountered bond has a sigma bond directly between the relevant nuclei.
02:18 < fenn> are all bonds in graphene pi orbitals?
02:18 < fenn> uh, not including the stuff at th eedges
02:18 < adlai> nah, there gotta be sigma bonds connecting each adjacent pair of carbon atoms
02:19 < adlai> but the electron sheets are composed of pi orbitals
02:19 < adlai> there may be a fancier name for that stuff.
02:20 < adlai> as a rule of thumb: if the electron density is concentrated directly between the nuclei, it's sigma; and if the density is nonexistent there, it's pi.
02:20 < adlai> fenn: what is your pay grade btw? (me, i get paid these days to talk shit, ask questions, and chew bubblegum)
02:21 < fenn> i read wikipedia
02:21 < adlai> /nick swamp
02:21 < adlai> ^_^
02:23 < fenn> recently i've been playing with a 3D printer
02:23 < fenn> they make carbon fiber infused printer filament, but according to the tests it's less strong than the same filament without any carbon fiber
02:25 < fenn> since carbon nanotubes are bad in compression, for many applications you'd want a composite with a high compressive strength matrix similar to fiber reinforced concrete
02:27 < fenn> or perhaps a glassy matrix
02:28 < fenn> many things could melt and be infused into a carbon nanotube felt or 3D weave
02:31 < fenn> for really strong 3D printed composites you need 5D motion control and better fiber layout algorithms. i don't understand why nobody seems to be working on this
02:31 < fenn> the whole layered thing is so 2009
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02:44 < fenn> here's my most recent print, it's for hooking up a vacuum hose to the bench grinder http://fennetic.net/irc/vacuum_hose_attachment.jpg
02:47 < fenn> i finally gave in to the temptation of proprietary cad software
02:47 < fenn> it's just embarrassing how much better it is from a usability standpoint
02:50 < fenn> as a relative novice this took 2 hours to design and then i was able to change all the dimensions without any problems when it turned out my initial measurements were wrong
02:54 < fenn> anyway an automated carbon fiber prepreg layup robot would be cool to have
03:08 < fenn> like this but for arbitrary shapes and surfaces http://www.isogridinc.com/applications.html
03:10 < fenn>  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iODb_hJL9eE Robotic Layup Heads for Isogrid Panels
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03:29 < fenn> "driverless car" has sort of a "horseless carriage" ring to it
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03:42 < fenn> i wonder if you could just mechanically roll up graphene sheets into "scroll" carbon nanotubes
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05:29 < fltrz> fenn, like a loom but volumetric?
05:30 < fenn> wha
05:31 < fenn> just sticking fiber tapes together to make surfaces
05:31 < fenn> the isogrid thing isn't technically woven, it's just layered
05:32 < fenn> there are solid 3D weave things which are woven with long needles
05:32 < fltrz> I meant "for really strong 3D printed composites you need 5D motion control and better fiber layout algorithms. i don't understand why nobody seems to be working on this"
05:32 < fenn> yeah that would not actually involve weaving at lal
05:32 < fenn> all*
05:33 < fenn> just 3D printing deposition along various planes
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06:12 < JayDugger> adlai: check Atomic Rockets for your super-material needs
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07:46 < kanzure> https://biobricks.org/openmta/
07:46 < kanzure> https://static1.squarespace.com/static/54a6bdb7e4b08424e69c93a1/t/5a65fd2d652dea9bcc9b5492/1516633390663/Updated+OpenPlant+IP+Working+Group+Report.pdf
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08:45 < kanzure> "Telomerase may paradoxically accelerate aging of the DNA methylome" https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/abs/10.1089/rej.2018.2073
08:46 < kanzure> "Pluripotent stem cells escape from senescence-associated DNA methylation changes" https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3561866/
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12:55 < kanzure> blort
13:37 < kanzure> https://www.technologyreview.com/s/611007/researchers-are-keeping-pig-brains-alive-outside-the-body/amp/
13:37 < kanzure> "The ethics of experimenting with human brain tissue" https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-018-04813-x
14:16 < Mathias_Mindblad> Yeah you keep the lines of telomeres from changing length, and you won't have any lingering "Zombie Cells" causing brittle bones and reduced skin elacticity."
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14:19 < Mathias_Mindblad> If you can eliminate free radicals in the body, and keep the telomere lines from changing, you just won't age anymore, and you may regenerate into a 21 year old body because the effects of aging would wash through with all the dead cells that are replaced by new ones continuously.
14:21 < Mathias_Mindblad> If you were 60, and got a treatment that solved this for you, then you would age backwards like benjamin button. But, unlike him, you would stop at 21, and stay there forever.
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16:15 < streety> why 21?
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16:38 < Mathias_Mindblad> Well, the age of maturity, around 21? Do you have a better number?
16:45 < streety> I suspect it will strongly depend on what you are optimizing for
16:47 < streety>  “Human Development: A Life-Span View” by Robert Kail and John Cavanaugh discussed at http://livehealthy.chron.com/men-women-reach-physical-peak-2652.html might be a useful resource
16:47 < Mathias_Mindblad> thanks
16:55 < Mathias_Mindblad> you
16:56 < Mathias_Mindblad> wrong screen, sorry
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21:20 < kanzure> blooooor-t
21:35 < kanzure> "A genetic test, developed by the a2 Milk Company, determines whether a cow produces A2 or A1 type protein in its milk. The test allows the company to certify milk producers as producing milk that does not metabolise to β-casomorphin 7."
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22:27 < fenn> jeez is it really that hard to induce the body to increase bone mass as an adult?
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22:31 < fenn> i wonder if anyone has even tried giving old people growth hormone
22:31 < fenn> "what?! you mean illegal steroids!?"
22:31 < fenn> yes grandma
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22:41 < fenn> "a 1990 New England Journal of Medicine study, in which 12 men over age 60 were given shots of growth hormone. The men experienced a modest increase in muscle mass and bone density, and a decline in body fat."
22:42 < fenn> "author Dr. Daniel Rudman remained adamant until his death that his study had no implications for anti-aging."
22:42 < fenn> hmm
22:43 < fenn> so it reduces markers of aging, but has no implications for anti-aging
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22:43 < fenn> if doctors consistently applied this criteria, they wouldn't prescribe so many statins
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22:45 < fenn> i thought IGF-1 (downstream of HGH) increased body fat
22:47 < fenn> anyway, it would be great if someone actually did an experiment on the effects of rHGH on longevity
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22:55 < fenn> yeah let's deny old people access to this https://www.selfhacked.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/12967_2012_Article_1361_Fig2_HTML.jpg
22:55 < fenn> make ROOOM!
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23:04 < fenn> i bet there's a lot of longevity data from cows given rBST
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23:08 < fenn> "Relatively few studies reported the effect of rBST on culling. The primary reason for this was that in pre-approval studies, the study design dictated that cows remained in the herd unless moribund or dead"
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23:14 < fenn> oh they cull the cows when their milk production is too low
23:14 < fenn> well that's not interesting at all
--- Log closed Thu Apr 26 00:00:59 2018