--- Log opened Mon Jul 02 00:00:02 2018
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02:01 < TMA> maaku: I hate to agree with kanzure on that. There are ways that you can make non-profit non-brain-damaged, but then you are running it as a for-profit business, albeit one where the profit is not the #1 main goal, but it is #1.5 goal (it is #1 the moment there is the danger of being in the red, otherwise it is #2) ... e.g. https://elplatt.com/sustainable-hackerspaces-ftw
02:02 < TMA> [the danger is always there :)]
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02:43 < l_wl> the problem with measuring brainwaves accurately stems from the electrodes connection to the head
02:43 < l_wl> because they are moreso measuring the surface topology of your skin / oils / muscle movements etc
02:44 < l_wl> as opposed to reading specific sections of your brain and the "brain waves" they give off
02:45 < l_wl> is that correct?
02:46 < l_wl> the best way to read data from a brain would be on someone who had no skull surrounding the brain right?
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02:53 < maaku> TMA: like it or not not-for-profits are pragmatically an extremely tax-advantaged way of leveraging resources
02:54 < maaku> you can get a 2-4x multiplier effect on delivered value, and access to capital that wouldn't otherwise be there (because of benefit to the donor)
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02:56 < maaku> also, case in point, I've got a fair amount of privately held stock from a startup I worked at. I can't sell it. But I could reasonably donate it to a 509c3 who negotiates with the board to sell it.
02:57 < maaku> I could therefore donate that stock to a hplus project I'd like to see funded, or to a DAF which cuts a check to the project, AND double dip with a tax write-off
02:58 < maaku> but only if you get over your aversion to non-profits. until then, it is paper money doing noone any good.
02:58 < TMA> maaku: I am not against non-profits as a vehicle, I am against the mentality that 'we are non-profit, we do not care if we stay afloat, because that would be business thinking'
02:59 < maaku> ok I think you're attacking a strawman in your head
03:00 < TMA> more like a real experience with non-profits from the inside
03:02 < TMA> "we have this surplus money we do not need just now. /me: let's invest it so we can be more self-sufficient. /them: nah, we are non-profit, we don't do that"
03:04 < l_wl> btw i got hacdc a 10k$/month grant for adword spend
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03:33 < l_wl> yall shld too
03:33 < l_wl> google grant words
03:34 < l_wl> im happy to help for commmission
03:37 < streety> what do you plan to do with it?
04:28 < l_wl> a keyboard n my intellect
04:28 < l_wl> 4 hplusrdmp
04:28 < l_wl> ur a 501 right?
04:34 < TMA> l_wl: cd u wrt w/ vwls, plz? IRC is a high latency medium, the fraction of a second you get your message through sooner does not make any meaningfull difference. On the other hand, it helps others to understand.
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05:17 < streety> I was wondering what you planned to do with the $10k/month adword grant for hacdc. That might have been the question you were responding to but it's not clear
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08:00 < mrdata> $10k/month? i can think of lots of ways to spend that
08:01 < mrdata> starting wih some research staff
08:15 < TMA> mrdata: it is $10k/mo for adwords, if I understood correctly -- so, basically worthless, unless you are into PR
08:16 < mrdata> i'm out of touch with PR
08:16 < mrdata> so idk what that entails at all
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11:17 < maaku> TMA: there are legal resstrictions you maybe weren't aware of which prevent non-profits from retaining their tax advantaged status if they do anything more than a small amount of short-term investing to keep cash at hand
11:18 < maaku> and they can never become self-sufficient unless their investments can guarantee a better-than-10% return
11:19 < ebowden> What if it's investments in your own organisation?
11:19 < maaku> what does that mean
11:19 < maaku> like it or not the US system is specifically setup to put investment growth and self-sufficiency on the donor side (which can be done via DAF or private foundation)
11:20 < maaku> that's why many foundaitons try to get ongoing annual support from big donors
11:20 < maaku> er, s/foundations/non-profits
11:20 < ebowden> For example, a non-profit semiconductor fab investing in more production capacity.
11:21 < maaku> that's not an investment in the legal sense I and TMA are talking about, that's an expense to purchase capital
11:21 < ebowden> Can you do as much of that as you want and maintain the tax advantage?
11:21 < maaku> yes
11:21 < ebowden> Ok.
11:22 < maaku> as long as it's related to your core business, there's no secondary benefits from it, etc. etc.
11:24 < ebowden> Could a semiconductor fab branch out into circuit board manufacturing?
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11:24 < ebowden> (Invest in facilities for producing multilayer PCBs.)
11:25 < maaku> ebowden: depends on what their IRS-approved charitable purpose is
11:26 < ebowden> To produce high quality products for the market at reduced cost to the customer.
11:27 < maaku> are we still talking about non-profits? if we are, they have a specific-to-the-org charitable purpose which has to be approved by the Secretary of State and the IRS, and nearly everything they do must be within that purpose
11:27 < ebowden> Yes.
11:28 < maaku> and having actually attempted to create a 501 organizaiton, i can tell you they scrutinize those hard
11:28 < maaku> I say attempted because we weren't able to get our cause approved despite 6 attempts, afterwhich I gave up
11:28 < ebowden> What was your cause.
11:28 < nmz787> josiah zayner on latenight TV https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJm8PeWkiEU
11:28 < nmz787> .title
11:28 < ebowden> What was your cause?
11:28 < yoleaux> Gene Editing: Last Week Tonight with John Oliver (HBO) - YouTube
11:29 < maaku> Cryptocurrency related research which isn't that relevant to this channel.
11:29 < maaku> There's no way "To produce high quality products for the market at reduced cost to the customer." would be accepted
11:29 < ebowden> I could have sworn there were non-profit manufacturers.
11:29 < maaku> Software foundations like Mozilla are having a hard time keeping their 501 status these days
11:30 < ebowden> (I recall a control box that was made by a non-profit.)
11:30 < ebowden> (It was for mining equipment.)
11:30 < maaku> I'm sure there are but they don't have purpose statements like that.
11:31 < ebowden> Like whatever the pi foundation's is.
11:33 < maaku> .wik Raspberry Pi Foundation
11:33 < yoleaux> "The Raspberry Pi Foundation is a charity founded in 2009 to promote the study of basic computer science in schools, and is responsible for developing a single-board computer called the Raspberry Pi, the UK's best-selling PC of all time." — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raspberry_Pi_Foundation
11:33 < maaku> "to promote the study of basic computer science in schools"
11:34 < maaku> not "to produce high quality products for the market at reduced cost to the consumer"
11:34 < maaku> although that may be justified as an instrumental goal
11:35 < maaku> Also, Pi is UK. Rules there are different and I'm not at all familiar with UK law.
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12:33 < l_wl> streety: I'm not quite sure, mostly I want to make lots of targetted google ads to redirect to our website, probably for two main reasons (a) find sponsors or people who would give us grants && (b) bring in new highly skilled members
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12:34 < l_wl> TMA: sry wznt tryn to show off my skillz at hitting enter on my keyboard was just bout to pass out n go to bed
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12:42 < TMA> maaku: it is a bit different here. the purpose need not be approved, donations are exempt as a certain amount of other income. anything beyond that exempt amount is taxable at the regular rates
12:43 < TMA> s/as a/as well as a/
12:44 < TMA> and there is no exemption on interest or dividends
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16:04 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/kanzure/status/1013921236991332353
16:04 < yoleaux> Alert key disclosure -> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2018-July/016189.html https://www.coindesk.com/long-secret-bitcoin-key-finally-revealed/ (@kanzure)
16:10 < streety> thanks l_wl. At some point I really should visit
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16:23 < maaku> l_wl: if you're going to do something, I would highly target it to search phrases people are only likely to use if they are researching relevant literature themselves
16:23 < maaku> I don't think we're looking for an influx of general people
16:48 < l_wl> maaku: yep exactly
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--- Log closed Tue Jul 03 00:00:03 2018