--- Log opened Fri Jul 13 00:00:15 2018 00:01 -!- redlegion [~x@gateway/tor-sasl/redlegion] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 00:02 -!- redlegion [~x@gateway/tor-sasl/redlegion] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:05 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:10 -!- Kacia [~kacia@95.87.234.241] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:51 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nxtcneblalfnvalc] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:52 < fenn> .title https://www.subarutelescope.org/Topics/2018/07/12/index.html 00:52 < yoleaux> Topics - Subaru Telescope Helps Pinpoint Origin of Ultra-High Energy Neutrino - Subaru Telescope 01:22 -!- pompolic [~A@unaffiliated/pompolic] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:45 -!- Malvolio [~Malvolio@unaffiliated/malvolio] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:33 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:39 -!- Gurkenglas [~Gurkengla@unaffiliated/gurkenglas] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:43 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:48 -!- Malvolio [~Malvolio@unaffiliated/malvolio] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:56 -!- Malvolio [~Malvolio@unaffiliated/malvolio] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:00 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nxtcneblalfnvalc] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 03:40 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/stewartbrand/status/1017167508715892736 03:40 < yoleaux> ‘ I have never seen a regulation slow down my research. But I have seen fields slowed down by inadequate regulations.“ George Church gives great interview. https://twitter.com/CRISPRjournal/status/1016797000304611328 (@stewartbrand) 03:40 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/pdiff1/status/1017192205813862400 03:40 < yoleaux> @stewartbrand Regulations typically target application, not research. (@pdiff1, in reply to tw:1017167508715892736) 03:41 < kanzure> https://medium.com/s/futurehuman/reversed-aging-pig-organs-and-the-future-of-humankind-50f1cdb1e014 03:43 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/DeepMindAI/status/1017059295052140544 03:43 < yoleaux> Measuring abstract reasoning in neural networks - our latest #ICML2018 paper - takes inspiration from human IQ tests to explore abstract reasoning and generalisation in deep neural networks https://deepmind.com/blog/measuring-abstract-reasoning/ by @dgtbarrett, Felix Hill, @santoroAI, @arimorcos, Tim Lillicrap https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dh1RaYNWkAEdEuA.jpg (@DeepMindAI) 03:44 < kanzure> in which eboyden reveals that he's an unabashed reductionist https://twitter.com/juliagalef/status/1017208031006740481 03:46 < kanzure> http://rationallyspeakingpodcast.org/show/rs-212-ed-boyden-on-how-to-invent-game-changing-technologies.html 03:57 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-eijxrvbddketzekd] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:10 -!- aeiousom1thing [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:11 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:31 -!- Malvolio [~Malvolio@unaffiliated/malvolio] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 05:02 -!- CandleGlow [~CandleGlo@unaffiliated/candleglow] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:06 -!- CandleGlow [~CandleGlo@unaffiliated/candleglow] has quit [Client Quit] 05:18 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:18 -!- aeiousom1thing [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:00 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:04 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:15 -!- Malvolio [~Malvolio@unaffiliated/malvolio] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:24 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:24 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:22 < JayDugger> Didn't George Church talk about doing xenotransplantation pig research in China because it took less effort to comply with animal research laws? 07:22 < JayDugger> Has something changed, or did one or both interviews misrepresent him? 07:47 < kanzure> hmph 07:53 -!- strages [uid11297@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gdswcrgbvsyilwqc] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:04 -!- sandeepkr [~sandeepkr@ec2-52-29-251-54.eu-central-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:06 < kanzure> "Single-pot glycoprotein biosynthesis using a cell-free transcription-translation system enriched with glycosylation machinery" https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-018-05110-x 08:18 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-eijxrvbddketzekd] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 08:25 -!- JayDugger1 [~jwdugger@47.185.249.138] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:27 -!- JayDugger [~jwdugger@47.185.249.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:18 -!- JayDugger1 [~jwdugger@47.185.249.138] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:28 -!- yashgaroth [~yashgarot@2606:6000:c308:f700:5576:5608:8632:c4d5] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:30 -!- l_wl [~l_wl@136.24.189.173] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:29 -!- Malvolio [~Malvolio@unaffiliated/malvolio] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:30 -!- Malvolio [~Malvolio@unaffiliated/malvolio] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:06 < superkuh> http://www.pnas.org/content/115/27/6940 "Three-dimensional virtual histology of human cerebellum by X-ray phase-contrast tomography" 11:09 < superkuh> The supp. info videos are impressive. 11:22 -!- jqtrde [~jqtrde@47-35-242-14.dhcp.hlrg.nc.charter.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:27 -!- l_wl [~l_wl@136.24.189.173] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:29 -!- jqtrde [~jqtrde@47-35-242-14.dhcp.hlrg.nc.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:32 -!- l_wl [~l_wl@136.24.189.173] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:21 -!- redlegion [~x@gateway/tor-sasl/redlegion] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 12:22 -!- redlegion [~x@gateway/tor-sasl/redlegion] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:30 -!- winsoff [42cdc74d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.66.205.199.77] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:31 < winsoff> kanzure: are you worried about digitization of consciousness creating a sort of "locked in" feeling, or causing phantom body issues? 12:31 < winsoff> seems like any consciousness that is already trained to be an entire nervous system will not respond well to being reduced to a mockup of the CNS. 12:33 < kanzure> no i don't believe in consciousness 12:43 -!- l_wl_ [~l_wl@136.24.189.173] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:43 -!- l_wl [~l_wl@136.24.189.173] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:55 < winsoff> kanzure: sorry; bad phrasing, then. digitization of any nervous system only in the partial is what i'm worried about, here. 12:57 < kanzure> i think that new and novel forms of phantom limb syndrome could be created if you would want to pay for that 12:58 < kanzure> brain emulation is going to be very cpu expensive so i don't think that people are going to opt to waste cpu cycles on phantom pain 13:02 < TMA> that somewhat assumes the ability to distinguish phantom pain circuitry from the rest 13:04 < kanzure> just keep deleting stuff until you're done 13:04 * TMA thought the whole brain emulation is considered precisely because we do not possess enough information as what pieces are 'extra' 13:04 < kanzure> once you have working whole brain emulation you can begin to delete stuff and discover whether it was extraneous 13:06 < TMA> it reminds me of the proposition the mice had for Arthur Dent: you would get a new electronic brain, nobody will notice. I would! you will be programmed not to 13:10 < kanzure> hence why all of your messages should include a zero-knowledge proof that they were generated by a particular version of your brain 13:14 < TMA> speaking of which, is there such thing that could run on an ordinary wetware? (the kind that can barely sum two four bit numbers) 13:17 -!- Malvolio [~Malvolio@unaffiliated/malvolio] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:18 -!- Malvolio [~Malvolio@unaffiliated/malvolio] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:21 -!- thundara_ [~thundara@104.236.109.149] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:22 -!- l_wl_ [~l_wl@136.24.189.173] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:25 < winsoff> Why even work toward brain emulation when we can simply construct other things? What we will end up with in the end is not even remotely human--why call it transhumanism? 13:26 -!- l_wl [~l_wl@136.24.189.173] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:26 -!- JayDugger [~jwdugger@47.185.249.138] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:40 -!- AgenttiX [agenttix@lakka.kapsi.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:56 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:17 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=7c76729a Bryan Bishop: transcript: scriptless scripts (layer2 summit) >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/layer2-summit/2018/scriptless-scripts/ 14:19 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=f094fa79 Bryan Bishop: tweeter link >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/layer2-summit/2018/scriptless-scripts/ 14:20 < kanzure> winsoff: yeah it may be more profitable to stop halfway and build non-human agi 14:20 < kanzure> which is okay 14:22 < winsoff> kanzure: That's essentially my point. However, doing so through misleading means seems pretty delusional--usually on part of the person spouting the need to accelerate toward their own demise. It seems moreso an expression of a desire to self-obliviate than to self-improve. 14:23 < kanzure> huh? 14:23 < kanzure> glutaraladehyde is objectively superior to information theoretic death 14:23 < kanzure> er, glutaraldehyde 14:27 -!- AgenttiX [agenttix@lakka.kapsi.fi] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:27 -!- l_wl [~l_wl@136.24.189.173] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:27 -!- l_wl_ [~l_wl@136.24.189.173] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:27 -!- l_wl_ [~l_wl@136.24.189.173] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:28 -!- l_wl [~l_wl@136.24.189.173] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:32 < winsoff> kanzure: To clarify, you're saying preservation is important, compared to any form of regression made by the death of humanity? 14:32 -!- l_wl [~l_wl@136.24.189.173] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:52 -!- CandleGlow [~CandleGlo@unaffiliated/candleglow] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:53 < kanzure> uh yes? 17:09 -!- fluke` [~user@193.165.237.1] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:11 -!- fluke` [~user@193.165.237.1] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:14 -!- fluke` [~user@193.165.237.1] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:17 -!- l_wl [~l_wl@ip-184-250-65-151.sanjca.spcsdns.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:25 < fenn> "I have seen fields slowed down by inadequate regulations." example please 17:27 < fenn> "For example, there weren’t enough regulations in Europe on thalidomide, which caused miscarriages and severe birth defects, or in the U.S. on Vioxx, the painkiller that increased the risk of fatal heart attacks." 17:28 < fenn> hmm 17:32 < fenn> winsoff: i'm worried about being stuck in a body causing a locked-in feeling 17:32 < fenn> terrible i/o bandwidth, every affordance is based on moving a piece of meat 17:33 < fenn> can only see from 400-700nm ffs 17:33 -!- l_wl [~l_wl@ip-184-250-65-151.sanjca.spcsdns.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:35 -!- l_wl [~l_wl@ip-184-250-65-151.sanjca.spcsdns.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:27 < winsoff> fenn: As it stands, however, you are entirely based around these inputs and outputs. How much neuroplasticity is truly available to create extra senses? My main point is that CURRENT humans may not be able to look forward to escaping themselves, but any future intelligence we create will also not necessarily be much like ourselves. 18:28 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:37 < fenn> dreams, hallucinations, and experiments with BCI in paraplegics show us that there is plenty of flexibility available 18:38 < fenn> i am concerned about how human cognition is limited in dynamic range 18:38 < kanzure> he is worried about flexibility in brain emulations..? why. 18:39 < fenn> maybe he likes to worry 18:41 -!- Gurkenglas [~Gurkengla@unaffiliated/gurkenglas] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:55 -!- l_wl [~l_wl@ip-184-250-65-151.sanjca.spcsdns.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:11 < fenn> .wik HTTP_451 19:11 < yoleaux> "In computer networking, HTTP 451 Unavailable For Legal Reasons is an error status code of the HTTP protocol to be displayed when the user requests a resource which cannot be served for legal reasons, such as a web page censored by a government." — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTTP_451 19:16 < kanzure> oh okay 19:35 -!- winsoff [42cdc74d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.66.205.199.77] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 19:39 -!- l_wl [~l_wl@ip-173-139-58-237.ftwttx.spcsdns.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:54 -!- l_wl [~l_wl@ip-173-139-58-237.ftwttx.spcsdns.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:56 -!- l_wl [~l_wl@ip-173-139-77-71.ftwttx.spcsdns.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:17 -!- vurtz [~vurtz@2a02:c7d:ba9:9b00:3d91:4b8f:f25:1c69] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:23 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:40 -!- l_wl_ [~l_wl@ip-173-139-85-141.ftwttx.spcsdns.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:40 -!- l_wl [~l_wl@ip-173-139-77-71.ftwttx.spcsdns.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:47 -!- l_wl_ [~l_wl@ip-173-139-85-141.ftwttx.spcsdns.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:53 -!- vurtz [~vurtz@2a02:c7d:ba9:9b00:3d91:4b8f:f25:1c69] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:54 -!- preview [~quassel@2407:7000:8423:b00::2] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:59 -!- yashgaroth [~yashgarot@2606:6000:c308:f700:5576:5608:8632:c4d5] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:02 -!- l_wl [~l_wl@12.1.36.164] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:11 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:06 -!- strages [uid11297@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gdswcrgbvsyilwqc] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 23:48 -!- Kacia [~kacia@95.87.234.241] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:49 -!- Kacia [~kacia@95.87.234.241] has joined ##hplusroadmap --- Log closed Sat Jul 14 00:00:16 2018