--- Log opened Thu Aug 23 00:00:48 2018 00:20 -!- ebowden_ [~ebowden@unaffiliated/ebowden] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:21 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@unaffiliated/ebowden] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:12 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@unaffiliated/ebowden] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:33 -!- TMA [tma@twin.jikos.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:35 -!- TMA [tma@twin.jikos.cz] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:01 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@unaffiliated/ebowden] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:53 -!- Burninate [~Burn@pool-108-56-210-9.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:09 < kanzure> yes? 04:29 -!- Gurkenglas [~Gurkengla@unaffiliated/gurkenglas] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:53 -!- nicedice [~nicedice@unaffiliated/nicedice] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:54 -!- nicedice [~nicedice@unaffiliated/nicedice] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:14 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/mattblaze/status/1032429030878994433 05:14 < yoleaux> You cannot make insecure software systems more secure by being encouraging and not saying mean things about them. It’s not that kind of insecurity. (@mattblaze) 05:24 -!- Gurkenglas [~Gurkengla@unaffiliated/gurkenglas] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:05 < archels> Blender seems to be slowly evolving towards a UI with just about zero optical contrast 06:18 < kanzure> .wik giant water lily 06:18 < yoleaux> "" — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giant_water_lily 06:18 < kanzure> "Victoria amazonica has a leaf that is up to 3 metres (9.8 ft) in diameter, on a stalk up to 8 metres (26 ft) in length" 06:34 -!- Burnin8 [~Burn@pool-108-56-210-9.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:37 -!- Burninate [~Burn@pool-108-56-210-9.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:04 -!- mrdata [~mrdata@unaffiliated/mrdata] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:08 -!- mrdata [~mrdata@unaffiliated/mrdata] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:10 < kanzure> https://player.fm/series/catalyzing-coherence/e12-synthesizing-our-genetic-future-with-andrew-hessel 07:15 < kanzure> http://python-history.blogspot.com/2010/08/why-pythons-integer-division-floors.html 07:18 < fenn> archels you can change the theme 07:34 -!- nicedice [~nicedice@unaffiliated/nicedice] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:35 -!- nicedice [~nicedice@unaffiliated/nicedice] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:00 -!- yashgaroth [~yashgarot@2606:6000:c308:f700:ad9c:c784:88a9:dd8b] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:18 -!- walle303 [~walle303@ppp-58-11-253-44.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:20 -!- walle303 [~walle303@ppp-58-11-253-44.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:24 -!- ripazha [~ripazha@2402:800:6127:6fab:2d91:7c8f:5bcf:11d8] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:24 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@unaffiliated/ebowden] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:26 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@unaffiliated/ebowden] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:30 -!- ripazha [~ripazha@2402:800:6127:6fab:2d91:7c8f:5bcf:11d8] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:40 -!- Gurkenglas [~Gurkengla@unaffiliated/gurkenglas] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:24 -!- superkuh [~superkuh@unaffiliated/superkuh] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:25 -!- superkuh [~superkuh@c-24-118-172-137.hsd1.wi.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:25 -!- superkuh [~superkuh@c-24-118-172-137.hsd1.wi.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 09:25 -!- superkuh [~superkuh@unaffiliated/superkuh] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:13 -!- nicedice [~nicedice@unaffiliated/nicedice] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:14 -!- nicedice [~nicedice@unaffiliated/nicedice] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:28 -!- superKiller [~superKill@103.229.26.138] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:28 < superKiller> hello. does anybody here work with openbci ? 10:32 < fenn> i haven't seen anyone talk about it here in years (except yourself) 10:33 < superKiller> fenn, so what software do people here use, since i'm learning myself. 10:35 < fenn> more generally we haven't been doing much neuroscience lately, more focus on synthetic biology and genetic engineering 10:35 < fenn> ebowden is interested in neuroscience but i don't know what he's been up to 10:36 < superKiller> oh. well I'm interested in BCIs. 10:36 < superKiller> and i was told of this place 10:36 < fenn> archels also does something with electronics and neurons 10:37 -!- nicedice [~nicedice@unaffiliated/nicedice] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:38 -!- nicedice [~nicedice@unaffiliated/nicedice] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:38 < superKiller> fenn, oh that's okay I've just been looking for software to get started. Currently I have found OpenVIBE, openbci, and BCI2000 10:40 < fenn> the problem is EEG is too low signal-to-noise ratio, and too slow to detect single neuron firings 10:40 < fenn> i'm not sure what you're even supposed to do with the signal once you have captured it 10:41 < superKiller> fenn, if you have the signal then you can apply many statistical techniques to create maps between neural activity and functions, that is a small set right now. 10:42 < fenn> WTF they're selling that for $800 10:43 < fenn> it's literally just an ADC 10:43 < fenn> and not even a fancy one like in SDR front-ends 10:45 < superKiller> by they you mean openbci? 10:45 < fenn> yes 10:46 < superKiller> I found their source code a little sparsely documented. but they use python so that's a plus... 10:58 < archels> I'm not apprised of the latest and greatest—superKiller, if you could report back on this, that would be great :) 10:59 < superKiller> archels, report back on? 10:59 < archels> the latest and greatest in DIY EEG 11:00 < superKiller> archels, I'm new myself, though my interests are in improving speech transcription using non-invasive techniques, plus open source software in general. 11:03 < fenn> mumble mumble baidu deepspeech 11:03 < archels> superKiller: do you know about subvocal? 11:04 < superKiller> only the superficial details. why? 11:05 < superKiller> fenn, If im not wrong, deepspeech deals with audio data, though it could be extended to eeg I suppose ... 11:05 < archels> it's pretty cool and potentially more intuitive 11:05 < fenn> yes, generally speech transcription uses audio data 11:05 < archels> don't know the numbers on rate and error rate 11:05 < fenn> do you mean something else, like for locked in patients? 11:06 < fenn> it would be difficult to get enough labeled EEG data to feed a neural network like deepspeech. you'd need hundreds of hours of recordings 11:06 < superKiller> fenn, yes those that would have to use their brain signals for speech. 11:07 < superKiller> archels, I guess I'll look for some research on that 11:08 < kanzure> bRaIn SiGnAlS 11:09 < kanzure> it's a waste of time 11:09 < fenn> brAIn signALS 11:09 < kanzure> oh no what have you done 11:09 -!- aeiousom1thing [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:09 -!- aeiousomething [aeiousomet@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/aeiousomething] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:10 < superKiller> kanzure, why do you say that 11:10 < kanzure> for all the same reasons as explained above 11:10 < fenn> the most promising technology for BCI is openwater, imho 11:10 < fenn> it may be perpetual vaporware though 11:11 < fenn> basically you use hologram magic to de-scatter infrared photons that have passed through the brain 11:12 < fenn> and when a neuron fires, its shape or index of refraction changes enough that it looks different 11:12 < fenn> phase modulation, but i don't understand how that works 11:15 -!- aeiousom1thing is now known as aeiousomething 11:17 -!- jwhisnant5 [~jwhisnant@118.91.69.226] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:17 < superkuh> It's due to the change in the (physical) phase of the lipid bilayer during the action potential. 11:17 < superKiller> kanzure, so you think non invasive bcis are no good? 11:17 < fenn> superkuh is that like an alleotrope? 11:17 < fenn> with non-covalent bonds 11:18 < fenn> allotrope* 11:18 < superkuh> More like the change between water and ice. 11:18 < superkuh> Although it's liquid and gel state. 11:19 < superkuh> The phopholipid head groups associated with either +2 diavalent or +1 monovalent ions depending and the charge of the ions changes how many of the carboxyl groups on the lipid heads bind to a single ion. 11:19 < fenn> hmm we've overloaded the word "phase" 11:19 < superkuh> Ca2+ vs Na+ 11:20 < fenn> so the local mass per unit volume changes? because there are more ions that weigh about the same per ion 11:21 -!- jwhisnant5 [~jwhisnant@118.91.69.226] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:22 < superkuh> It's not the ion mass. It's how many lipid heads are coupled through ions to other lipid heads. 11:22 < superkuh> That changes the amount of order, there's reversible heat uptake, changes in optical scattering and refractive index, and swelling/decreasing in size. 11:23 < fenn> okay 11:29 < superkuh> I didn't know about openwater. Good that someone is working on making that tech more accessible. Too bad they made their site with wix. 11:30 < fenn> random physics weirdness: "transition from typical metallic behavior at thorium to the enormous complexity at plutonium and back to typical metallic behavior past americium. With little provocation plutonium will change its density by as much as 25 percent. It can be as brittle as glass or as malleable as aluminum; it expands when it solidifies." 11:31 < fenn> obviously god intended nuclear bombs, there's no other explanation 11:32 < fenn> superkuh: it's not "someone making it more accessible" it's the original inventors continuing their work 11:33 < superkuh> Oh? It's more than just near IR scattering then? I recall many groups doing that for forebrain stuff back in the mid-2000s. I can't really get their site to work. 11:34 < fenn> they use high resolution and fast LCD phase modulators to un-scatter the light, making the brain effectively transparent 11:35 < fenn> as for how they compute the inverse scattering function, i have no idea. hence calling it "magic" 11:35 < fenn> it's a very high dimensional search space 11:36 < fenn> fNIR:openwater :: EEG:MEA 11:37 < superkuh> Got it. 11:41 < fenn> jeez this page isn't even in the wayback machine 11:42 < fenn> hmm i can't just save it straightforwardly 11:42 -!- superKiller [~superKill@103.229.26.138] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:47 < archels> hot damn, I hadn't heard about OpenWater yet 11:54 -!- Gurkenglas [~Gurkengla@unaffiliated/gurkenglas] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:22 < Jay_Dugger> Hmm. 13:38 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:01 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:50 -!- 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