--- Log opened Sat Sep 22 00:00:16 2018
00:00 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=74fb529a Bryan Bishop: transcript: trustlessness >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/baltic-honeybadger/2018/trustlessness-scalability-and-directions-in-security-models/
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00:11 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=d634cbcf Bryan Bishop: transcript: trustlessness >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/baltic-honeybadger/2018/trustlessness-scalability-and-directions-in-security-models/
00:20 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=5b70a275 Bryan Bishop: more words >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/baltic-honeybadger/2018/trustlessness-scalability-and-directions-in-security-models/
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00:40 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=73d9568a Bryan Bishop: transcript: institutional investors >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/baltic-honeybadger/2018/current-state-of-the-market-and-institutional-investors/
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00:49 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=fc4dd170 Bryan Bishop: transcript: institutional investors >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/baltic-honeybadger/2018/current-state-of-the-market-and-institutional-investors/
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00:55 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=131030f3 Bryan Bishop: more words >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/baltic-honeybadger/2018/current-state-of-the-market-and-institutional-investors/
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01:36 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=5a03dfb7 Bryan Bishop: transcript: smart contracts >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/baltic-honeybadger/2018/the-future-of-bitcoin-smart-contracts/
01:39 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=570935e2 Bryan Bishop: more >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/baltic-honeybadger/2018/the-future-of-bitcoin-smart-contracts/
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02:02 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=daebe100 Bryan Bishop: transcript: the bitcoin standard >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/baltic-honeybadger/2018/the-bitcoin-standard/
02:05 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=404e2e35 Bryan Bishop: more >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/baltic-honeybadger/2018/the-bitcoin-standard/
02:08 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=f5a18899 Bryan Bishop: tweeter link >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/baltic-honeybadger/2018/the-bitcoin-standard/
02:24 < maaku> .title https://github.com/NVIDIA/vid2vid
02:24 < yoleaux> GitHub - NVIDIA/vid2vid: Pytorch implementation of our method for high-resolution (e.g. 2048x1024) photorealistic video-to-video translation.
02:24 < maaku> don't trust any video you see anymore...
02:31 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=9f28d9a4 Bryan Bishop: transcript: beyond bitcoin decentralized collaboration >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/baltic-honeybadger/2018/beyond-bitcoin-decentralized-collaboration/
02:42 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/robep00/status/1043417060926214144
02:42 < yoleaux> Superhuman @kanzure transcripting live #bh2018 http://diyhpl.us/wiki/transcripts/baltic-honeybadger/2018/ https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1043416899533647877/pu/pl/sTS1YcEhlr0kS-3L.m3u8?tag=5 (@robep00)
02:42 < kanzure> hmm maybe we should disable gnusha git hook
02:45 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=04ae7069 Bryan Bishop: more text >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/baltic-honeybadger/2018/beyond-bitcoin-decentralized-collaboration/
03:03 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=632cb775 Bryan Bishop: more text >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/baltic-honeybadger/2018/the-future-of-bitcoin-wallets/
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03:21 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=caeb969a Bryan Bishop: more text >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/baltic-honeybadger/2018/the-future-of-bitcoin-wallets/
03:29 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=0b28a84b Bryan Bishop: more text >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/baltic-honeybadger/2018/the-future-of-bitcoin-wallets/
03:34 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=9a688f8f Bryan Bishop: more text >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/baltic-honeybadger/2018/the-future-of-bitcoin-wallets/
03:48 < fltrz> is there a good channel where I can ask about the legality of reverse engineering "free, public domain" software?
03:48 < fltrz> where the author described the software as such
03:49 < fltrz> he does not give sources though
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03:55 < kanzure> well, anyone can start legal action against you even if you're in the right; so the real question is, how likely is he to cause you trouble evne if you're doing the right thing.
04:04 < kanzure> .title https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18036491
04:04 < yoleaux> CTRL-Labs: demo of human-computer control using electromyography [video] | Hacker News
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04:17 < fltrz> kanzure, sure, but I'd prefer talking to people with experience in dealing with self-proclaimed "public domain" software, and wonder what channel suitable people can be found
04:19 < fltrz> I would think that "public domain" implies you can do with it what you want?
04:19 < fltrz> i.e. GPL software is not public domain
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04:57 < adlai> fltrz: afaict(ianal), there is No Such Thing as public domain software in most jurisdictia, so that question unparses.
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04:59 < fltrz> "Public-domain software is software that has been placed in the public domain: in other words, there is absolutely no ownership such as copyright, trademark, or patent. Software in the public domain can be modified, distributed, or sold even without any attribution by anyone; this is unlike the common case of software under exclusive copyright, where software licenses grant limited usage rights. " from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki
04:59 < fltrz> /Public-domain_software
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05:02 < adlai> fltrz: the answer you'll get to any question about legality will depend on the jurisdiction[s] you care about, and the public domain literally does not exist in many of these. (I'm not sure what they'd consider, eg, the original mimblewimble textdrop)
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05:05 < fltrz> As far as I understand it certainly existed before the Berne Convention (as no mention of license or copyright automatically placed it in the public domain back then), and afterwards it needed to be placed explicitly in the public domain (which the author did by describing it as "free, public domain software")
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05:05 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=76fd1db8 Bryan Bishop: more text >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/baltic-honeybadger/2018/extreme-opsec-for-the-modern-cypherpunk/
05:08 < fltrz> the software under question was developed on government funding at Sandia National Labs, presented as public domain back then, afterwards it disappears from SNL site, and author maintains the software in a father and son business...
05:10  * adlai notes that the Berne convention hasn't been "fixed" during his own lifetime, and is thus now considered... broken
05:25 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=5dd04457 Bryan Bishop: more text >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/baltic-honeybadger/2018/bitcoin-payment-processing-and-merchants/
05:31 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=ae9f1b59 Bryan Bishop: more text >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/baltic-honeybadger/2018/bitcoin-payment-processing-and-merchants/
05:31 < kanzure> jrayhawk: let's disable some of this commit logging stuff.
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05:55 < fltrz> adlai, look at https://copyright.cornell.edu/publicdomain it seems like the concept of public domain still exists in the US
05:56 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=24d9868b Bryan Bishop: more text >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/baltic-honeybadger/2018/present-and-future-tech-challenges-in-bitcoin/
05:57 < adlai> thank you fltrz! kanzure, would you consider merging a commit adding author/presenter name to past transcripts?
05:58 < adlai> would be quite useful for someone browsing through the web interface in search of probabilistically-interesting content
06:01 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=9480c2cb Bryan Bishop: more text >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/baltic-honeybadger/2018/present-and-future-tech-challenges-in-bitcoin/
06:06 < kanzure> adlai: author should be on there.. look at the top of the docs?
06:10 < adlai> kanzure: i mean to the filename / url / link
06:12 < adlai> for your consideration.
06:13 < adlai> it just seems like an awful lot of work to produce such a commit knowing in advance that it won't be merged :)
06:24 < kanzure> your commit wont be merged?
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06:25 < kanzure> the hell you talking about? https://github.com/kanzure/diyhpluswiki/pull/15
06:25 < kanzure> oh, you want author name in the permalink
06:25 < kanzure> i don't even have my name in the permalink why would i add someone else's
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06:27 < adlai> for the increase of information density in http://diyhpl.us/wiki/transcripts/baltic-honeybadger/2018/
06:29 < kanzure> if you're asking whether you should read any of these, the answer is no, it's general audience instead of actually useful things
06:32  * adlai enters nonhalting loop when considering whether that answer increases or lowers information density
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07:03 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=764ce655 Bryan Bishop: more text >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/baltic-honeybadger/2018/the-future-of-lightning/
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07:30 < fltrz> TMA, regarding giving sugars to a plant, would a catheter and an IV bag with boiled sugar water on a stand work?
07:35 < fltrz> if contamination is a concern, the whole bag with tube and needle could be boiled in a pressure cooker (so that the bag does not burst since the pressure cooker prevents boiling)
07:35 < TMA> fltrz: it might work. but beware of sap sucking animals and fungi
07:35 < fltrz> if I ever try it, it would be indoors with one reference and one trial plant
07:36 < TMA> both animals and fungal spores can infect the site even indoors
07:36 < fltrz> I was thinking perhaps an avocado plant, since they typically don't grow avocado's in my climate
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07:36 < TMA> (well, unless you have a sterile lab)
07:36 < fltrz> TMA you mean needle insertion site?
07:36 < TMA> fltrz: yes
07:37 < TMA> fungal spores are airborne, so any unfiltered air exchange with the outside is a risk
07:37 < fltrz> I was thinking of gracious application of alcohol swabbing both site and needle, then inserting needle, then covering site with wax or superglue
07:38 < TMA> it might work
07:38 < fltrz> TMA, yeah, I would avoid air exchange (I think drip chamber may have air exchange, so without drip chamber)
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07:39 < TMA> from my experience the pest and pathogen control is the hardest thing in cultivating plants
07:40 < TMA> for most plant growth the optimum is about 100% humidity, which is also optimal for fungal growth
07:40 < fltrz> I think those are the 2 kinds of problems I envision: 1) pathogen and pest control 2) possible "dilution shock" due to large volume of water
07:41 < TMA> and the more water (and hence disolved sugar) is circulating in the plant, the likelier target for pests
07:41 < fltrz> right
07:42 < TMA> you do not want to use pure water -- with dissolved sugar, there shall be no "dilution shock" -- it is just a matter of ballancing the osmotic presure
07:42 < fltrz> but I think a healthy plant is relatively resistant, given how grafting happens in agriculture
07:42 < TMA> also resistant plants do not have the highest yields
07:43 < TMA> the higher the yield, the lower the resistance (because building resistance is costly for the plant)
07:43 < fltrz> TMA, what I meant is all the nonsugar species in the volume of phloem plant sap, may diffuse up to the IV bag, i.e. the initial natural volume of sap in phloem may be small compared to the whole IV bag
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07:44 < fltrz> the pressure is easy I *think* just hang the bag above the highest part of the plant
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07:45 < TMA> osmotic pressure is not related to pressure of physics
07:45 < TMA> osmotic pressure is the measure of saturation of a solution
07:46 < fltrz> right, I don't think the high sugar concentration will be a problem given how girdling is possible
07:47 < fltrz> I was assuming the plant uses (physics) pressure drop for punctured phloem tubes as a signal to heal the puncture
07:47 < TMA> if you have two solutions that are separated by a semi-permeable membraine (cell walls in this case), there is tendency to equalize concentrations by moving the component that permeates the membraine
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07:47 < fltrz> I understand that's osmosis, but which part is playing the role of the membrane here?
07:47 < TMA> it is the mechanism you can draw fluid from meat if you sprinkle it with salt
07:48 < TMA> because there is salt dissolved inside, salt outside, but outside it is more salty, therefore water flows from the cells to the salt outside
07:49 < TMA> in order to equalize the saltiness of the inside with the outside
07:50 < TMA> too little dissolved things and the cells will burst because they would accept water (that's why drinking distilled water is fatal for humans)
07:50 < TMA> too much and the cells will dessicate (that's why drinking sea water is fatal)
07:51 < fltrz> but with the needle there is no membrane, so I fear that if there is no wound healing (which I assume happens with girdling, say upon contact with air) important sap components (like the signaling molecules you mentioned before) may diffuse up the tube into the bag, so if the bag is say 5 plant sap volumes, the concentration would become 1/6 the original concentration for all the nonsugar species
07:51 < TMA> fltrz: the cell membrane is the thing you are concerned with. you change the sap composition by the admixture
07:52 < TMA> you shall not use too much sugar that would cause the plant to dessicate (because the osmosis is faster thant the sugar uptake by the cells -- water is smaller and more mobile)
07:53 < fltrz> oh I see what you mean, osmosis of water from inside plant cells into the phloem tubes?
07:53 < TMA> yes
07:53 < TMA> gotta go
07:53 < fltrz> thx
07:59 < fltrz> the plant would probably try to draw extra water from the roots up the xylem
08:07 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=290e5fc7 Bryan Bishop: more text >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/baltic-honeybadger/2018/investing-in-bitcoin-businesses/
08:08 < fltrz> perhaps the sugar injection should be in the root system instead of the phloem, if thats where the sugar is stored anyway?
08:08 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=cc9269bb Bryan Bishop: more text >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/baltic-honeybadger/2018/day-1-closing-panel/
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10:26 < kanzure> aaaaaaaaaaaaaa
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16:21 < Jay_Dugger> et
16:47 < fenn> phone home
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18:31 < Jay_Dugger> Not the dated reference I had in mind.
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22:22 < kanzure> aaaaaaa
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22:56 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=e1c14f1d Bryan Bishop: miscellaneous >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/baltic-honeybadger/2018/opening/
23:22 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=ebfd3a6d Bryan Bishop: aaaaaaa >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/baltic-honeybadger/2018/bitcoin-maximalism-dissected/
23:38 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=881f4fd6 Bryan Bishop: aaaaaaa >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/baltic-honeybadger/2018/bitcoin-maximalism-dissected/
23:39 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=681b6f56 Bryan Bishop: aaaaaaa >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/baltic-honeybadger/2018/bitcoin-maximalism-dissected/
--- Log closed Sun Sep 23 00:00:16 2018