--- Log opened Sun Sep 23 00:00:17 2018 00:00 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=2168459b Bryan Bishop: aaaaaaa >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/baltic-honeybadger/2018/trading-panel/ 00:07 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=4038c73a Bryan Bishop: more text >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/baltic-honeybadger/2018/trading-panel/ 00:10 -!- jiggie24 [~jiggie@116.107.12.151] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:12 -!- jiggie24 [~jiggie@116.107.12.151] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:26 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=64812412 Bryan Bishop: more text >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/baltic-honeybadger/2018/bitcoin-as-a-novel-market-institution/ 00:30 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=6cb682cc Bryan Bishop: more text >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/baltic-honeybadger/2018/bitcoin-as-a-novel-market-institution/ 01:39 < jrayhawk> kanzure: re: commits: you'll have to be a little more specific 01:42 -!- itaseski [~itaseski@213.135.179.46] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:50 -!- itaseski [~itaseski@213.135.179.46] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:54 -!- tkimura23 [~tkimura@190-201-21-68.dyn.dsl.cantv.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:56 -!- tkimura23 [~tkimura@190-201-21-68.dyn.dsl.cantv.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:17 -!- acrocity [~acrocity@206.214.12.80] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:17 -!- acrocity is now known as Guest80624 02:22 -!- Guest80624 [~acrocity@206.214.12.80] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:22 < kanzure> jrayhawk: should we disable the gnusha commit logging into irc? 02:22 < kanzure> jrayhawk: it seems spammy. 02:22 -!- dscharrer20 [~dscharrer@183.157.174.236] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:22 < jrayhawk> i don't think it's interrupting anything. we could do some deduplication, maybe. 02:24 < kanzure> okay, i guess nobody has complained so fine 02:26 < jrayhawk> https://github.com/kfdm/irssi-nohilight if you're annoyed by it, this might come in handy 02:26 -!- dscharrer20 [~dscharrer@183.157.174.236] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:29 -!- Abbadonnet [~Abbadonne@14-133-171-219.mie1.commufa.jp] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:30 -!- Abbadonnet [~Abbadonne@14-133-171-219.mie1.commufa.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:33 < nmz787> I don't mind the logs really, it let's us lurkers know stuff is happening... I also feel special when I make an edit and hope someone here sees it and replies (no one ever does :( ) 02:50 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=447b102a Bryan Bishop: more text >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/baltic-honeybadger/2018/the-b-foundation/ 03:00 < adlai> kanzure: i have a complaint! 03:01 < adlai> please "merge" my edits as a fastforward when possible. 03:01 < adlai> i believe github lets you do this, when possible, with a selector at the side of the merge button 03:02 < adlai> otherwise it creates an extraneous merge commit, eg 05524675 03:03 < adlai> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=05524675 << my guess is that anyone interested in knowing that this was PR#15, would be reading that in https://github.com/kanzure/diyhpluswiki/pulls?q=here 03:04 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=c6155fda Bryan Bishop: more text >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/baltic-honeybadger/2018/the-b-foundation/ 03:05 < adlai> "the B foundation. This logo was created 1 hour. I insist to keep this symbol as the official symbol forever. It's perfect." 03:06 * adlai doubts that a logo that took an hour to create is worth the interblink it'll take to collapse its wavefunction. 03:08 < adlai> seems like a cool manifesto, though! 03:09 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=616794f3 Bryan Bishop: more text >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/baltic-honeybadger/2018/the-b-foundation/ 03:11 < kanzure> eh. why am i here. 03:12 < adlai> "because he's busy writing"? 03:12 < adlai> funny of them to say that, though... i thought you preferred reading :) 03:24 < kanzure> i was typing the transcript 03:24 < kanzure> they didn't want to bug me apparently 03:25 < kanzure> to get up on stage with the others 03:43 -!- Urchin [~urchin@unaffiliated/urchin] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:48 -!- sachy [~sachy@78.108.102.220] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:16 -!- nicedice [~nicedice@unaffiliated/nicedice] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:17 -!- Urchin [~urchin@unaffiliated/urchin] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:25 -!- Gurkenglas [~Gurkengla@unaffiliated/gurkenglas] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:08 -!- helleshin [~talinck@cpe-174-97-113-184.cinci.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:11 -!- hehelleshin [~talinck@cpe-174-97-113-184.cinci.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:13 -!- nicedice [~nicedice@unaffiliated/nicedice] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:14 -!- nicedice [~nicedice@unaffiliated/nicedice] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:19 -!- Urchin [~urchin@unaffiliated/urchin] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:35 < kanzure> https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/nemewx/scientists-just-made-human-egg-cells-from-human-blood-for-the-first-time 06:16 < nsh> grfeat 06:18 -!- padv1 [~padv@197.42.224.255] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:28 -!- padv1 [~padv@197.42.224.255] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:42 -!- GorillaWarfare21 [~GorillaWa@171.234.183.48] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:45 -!- GorillaWarfare21 [~GorillaWa@171.234.183.48] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:00 -!- timk18 [~timk@KD124212073140.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:01 -!- timk18 [~timk@KD124212073140.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [K-Lined] 07:13 < Jay_Dugger> s/airgaped/air-gapped/ 07:18 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:44 -!- hehelleshin [~talinck@cpe-174-97-113-184.cinci.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:47 -!- helleshin [~talinck@cpe-174-97-113-184.cinci.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:33 -!- sachy [~sachy@78.108.102.220] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:37 -!- illustris_24 [~illustris@190.94.41.81] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:38 -!- illustris_24 [~illustris@190.94.41.81] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:45 -!- vodkaInf1rno7 [~vodkaInf1@187.114.46.19] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:47 -!- vodkaInf1rno7 [~vodkaInf1@187.114.46.19] has quit [Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.))] 08:49 -!- delinquentme [~delinquen@c-73-15-72-140.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:50 < adlai> who'da guessed that paul knew it all all along, long long ago: nothing known by sperm that you can't learn; nothing you can cook outside of books; noplace you can live without the ticking clock of time... it's easy! blood is all you need. 09:01 -!- yashgaroth [~yashgarot@cpe-66-27-127-185.san.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:33 -!- delinquentme [~delinquen@c-73-15-72-140.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:48 -!- Urchin [~urchin@unaffiliated/urchin] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:48 -!- helleshin [~talinck@cpe-174-97-113-184.cinci.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:51 -!- hehelleshin [~talinck@cpe-174-97-113-184.cinci.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:02 -!- xp0inter [~xp0inter@mx-ll-171.6.164-182.dynamic.3bb.co.th] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:06 -!- xp0inter [~xp0inter@mx-ll-171.6.164-182.dynamic.3bb.co.th] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:26 -!- duckpupp- [~duckpupp-@171.238.72.14] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:31 -!- duckpupp- [~duckpupp-@171.238.72.14] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:50 -!- xelra0 [~xelra@186.139.39.222] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:52 -!- xelra0 [~xelra@186.139.39.222] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:54 -!- hehelleshin [~talinck@cpe-174-97-113-184.cinci.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:57 -!- helleshin [~talinck@cpe-174-97-113-184.cinci.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:27 -!- Urchin [~urchin@unaffiliated/urchin] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:05 -!- redrabbit291 [~redrabbit@116.58.241.106] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:10 -!- redrabbit291 [~redrabbit@116.58.241.106] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:20 < fltrz> yesterday 2 friends (a straight couple) decided that something I had said was "homophobic" after which the guy pretended his parents were lesbian and he was a clone from his own mother, which makes 0 sense of course because of XY from XX, but before explaining that I first protested that it couldn't be true for legality reasons etc... his girlfriend supported his claims and they thought they could budge my opinion, so after a 12:20 < fltrz> while I just revealed the sledgehammer on how I knew from start that the claim was bogus 12:22 < fltrz> it's really silly when people (provably) bullshit in your face, so whenever it occurs I save my proof until in hindsight they have embarrassed themselves enough 12:22 -!- kliq [~kliq@189.132.44.55] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:25 -!- kliq [~kliq@189.132.44.55] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:36 < TMA> fltrz: but now you are the know-it-all jerk that treats them unfair by calling their bullshit out. is it worth it? 12:36 < fltrz> they really appreciate me for it 12:36 < fltrz> they often ask me about things they don't understand 12:37 * TMA wonders if fltrz is bullshitting /me 12:37 < TMA> ah, that's not an appreciation. that's just (ab)use 12:38 < fltrz> why would it be abuse? 12:38 * TMA too serves as a walking encyclopaedia to be used and ridiculed at times 12:44 < TMA> fltrz: it is an abuse because they get knowledge dump/tutoring which is a valuable service by an educated person in exchange for a friendship, which is basically unskilled labor and not of commensurate value. it is called rip-off in commercial transactions 12:44 < TMA> or maybe /me is just grumpy (that's an alternative hypothesis) 12:45 < fltrz> the friendship is not one-sided, and they are not working in any academic nor technical field (they are "normal" people), so it's not like I'm doing their work... I don't mind helping the uneducated understand and get interested in knowledge 12:48 < fltrz> I think they were just testing to which extent I buy bullshit, since from their perspective they don't know when I am wrong or right, so if they occasionally bullshit or try to get me to say some "politically correct" nonsense, I just point out the bullshit/nonsense irrespective of "political correctness" 12:51 < TMA> sorry. I just projected my experiences to an instance of behavior you described that seemed remarkably similar to my experiences. my experiences support the model that there is no non-transactional friendship and people generally focus on hard or soft skills but rarely both. therefore they exchange their respective skill-advantage in transactions 12:52 -!- sachy [~sachy@78.108.102.220] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:52 < TMA> and by the fact that soft-skill focus enables to simulate soft-skill providing without actually providing top-notch soft skill service, I have made wrong conclusion that it is the case in this particular case too 12:56 < TMA> fltrz: also them testing you might mean they do not trust you exactly because they are not to be trusted themselves (after all, most people model other people by "what would I do in this situation [with the hidden assumption of: given my limited knowledge of that person and my limited ability to use even such knowledge to modify my predictions]") 12:57 < TMA> s/wrong/arguably wrong/ 13:00 < fltrz> oh, I don't mind people testing each other, if anything I would want more people to regularly test each other and openly question things and dare think critically... also, they were laughing when I realized 1) I knew it was bullshit in a logically explainable way they didn't think of 2) they were laughing since they realized I turned the situation around by testing how they respond to slowly increasing counterarguments until 13:00 < fltrz> presenting them how I *knew* their claim to be patently false 13:01 < fltrz> i.e. showing them that by trying to defend something false, they had in the span of just a few minutes built a web of lies around themselves 13:03 * TMA needs to really rethink 'all people are always evil' heuristic 13:03 < fltrz> and if even they were willing to build a web of lies defending a position, what does that tell about people actually in such a position? 13:04 < fltrz> i.e. this encourages to take "politically correct" nonsense with a grain of salt, since they were forced to see the web of lies they just created in its defense 13:05 < fltrz> they aren't gay, their parents aren't: if they were willing to bullshit, what about people who actually identify as gay? 13:06 < TMA> alternative possibility is that this interaction encourages them to discount your input even more, because it does not fit with their preexisting bias 13:07 < nmz787> adlai: the correct request would to be ask kanzure to rebase your pull requests before merging 13:07 < fltrz> nono, they were laughing when they realized how silly they must have appeared to me, and no one was bitter about it 13:07 < TMA> [which is incidentally an explanation that fits my own preexisting bias of 'people are not generally amenable to arguments to change their worldview'] 13:08 -!- Evoken [~Evoken@152.0.200.126] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:09 < TMA> and even knowing that, I am unable to suppress it from entering my mind. I can suppress it after it has entered but that's not the point 13:11 < fltrz> people are definitely amenable to arguments to change their worldview, the hard part is typically 1) phrasing a concept they are not familiar with 2) showing that your reasoning is not based on malice, that in fact it is defending some important desirable facets... 13:13 < fltrz> to do 2) you have to start with identifying why they are afraid of a viewpoint, or what ulterior motive behind a viewpoint they are fearing. people don't talk about fears, but it is necessary to understand exactly what guarantee they are trying to safeguard, and then to show how the guarantee can be met in a sane way as well 13:14 -!- Evoken [~Evoken@152.0.200.126] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:16 < fltrz> I talked to a friend about the "sugar IV bags for plants/trees" and when he grew up at his parents place they had birch trees and when they drilled holes for the sap and "corked" them afterwards, the pressure of the sap would simply uncork the cork no matter how hard they inserted the cork 13:17 < fltrz> so perhaps the plant will eject the needle, but I think it is an area thing, for a cylindrical needle/cork the pressure area grows with radius squared, while the friction area goes proportional to circumference and hence radius, so I think a needle would stay in place 13:21 < TMA> also, please reconsider having _one_ experimental and _one_ control plant. you want to have several plants, even if they are clones 13:22 -!- vurtz [~vurtz@2a02:c7d:ba9:9b00:3d91:4b8f:f25:1c69] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:25 < TMA> (A) there are errors possible. 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[~urchin@unaffiliated/urchin] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:24 -!- quesker7 [~quesker@154.0.71.97] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:28 -!- quesker7 [~quesker@154.0.71.97] has quit [Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.))] 17:43 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:50 -!- nicedice [~nicedice@unaffiliated/nicedice] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:51 -!- nicedice [~nicedice@unaffiliated/nicedice] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:54 < kanzure> i am not going to like rebasing 17:54 -!- Gurkenglas [~Gurkengla@unaffiliated/gurkenglas] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:12 -!- nicedice [~nicedice@unaffiliated/nicedice] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:13 -!- nicedice [~nicedice@unaffiliated/nicedice] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:18 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@unaffiliated/ebowden] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:50 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has 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